U-Joints

[2dub]

Ok so I want to know what people think of the different performance U-joints. Including CTM, Spicer, OX and whatever others you can come up with. Which ones are the strongest, most durable or last the longest. Tech page links are always appreciated. So far all I have found is this write up
http://completeoffroad.com/wsm/i-1198_super_u-joint_yukon_d44_kit.html
But that is also kind of a sales pitch although it sounds very unbiased. I am looking at these for a D44 but since they are probably manufactured the same no matter what the axel application any reports/comparisons or tech pages would be appreciated. So in the words of Zander Kelly (Joe Dirt) "Im a roast Baste me."

Oh yeah and "buy a D60" is not a helpful response!

[chris fresh]

it realy depends on your pocket, spicer is a great joint,been around a long time, and alotta guy's including myself run them.ctm's are supposed to be for ever so they say,and they should be considering they are around 180.00 to 250.00 per joint depending on what axle your using. while spicers are around 45 to 60,biggest thing is keeping them greased,i juice mine with every oil change and i only wheel my truck about one weekend a month. it's just like anything else,keep an eye on um,check the seals and keep um greased, i personaly don't like joints that don't have a zerk fitting.but hey to each his own

[tsmall07]

whats a zerk fitting? is it a different name for a grease fitting?

[4x4junkie]

Strongest, most durable U-joint? CTM, hands down.

Best value in a U-joint (and strongest by far in 'stock-replacement' type joints)? Spicer 5-760X (about $25 if you look around a bit).

Zerk fitting = grease fitting, yes

[GubNi]

I broke spicer 760's liek they were made out of cardboard. After about 6 (sometimes on easy stuff) I upgraded to Yukon superjoints. That was only a few weeks ago, but I am impressed with the design of the yukon joints.

[tsmall07]

how expensive are they?

[GubNi]

The yukon joints were $230 shipped. $115 each is crazy, but still alot cheaper than CTM.

[2dub]

I broke spicer 760's liek they were made out of cardboard. After about 6 (sometimes on easy stuff) I upgraded to Yukon superjoints. That was only a few weeks ago, but I am impressed with the design of the yukon joints.

What was so much better about the Yukon joints design than the spicers? Just thickness of material or is it the material that they used?

[67eb_in_619]

The big thing that all the high priced joint have going for them (CTM, Yukon, etc) is that they dont have roller bearings. They all have much thicker "crosses" and put a lot better metal into making them. They write up you posted from completeoffroad makes good points that can be applied to all of the aftermarket hi dollar joints.

IIRC, the larger aftermarket joints need larger axle shafts too... so keep that in mind if you want a bigger joint than stock.

I went with the Yukon super joints and Yukon chromoly d44 shafts when I snapped my stock ones (was on borrowed time there anyway w/35"s). I got the whole setup from Mike @ CompleteOffRoad .. I figured I dont want to take it all apart again anytime soon.

What joints are you running now? Have you broke them?

[2dub]

The big thing that all the high priced joint have going for them (CTM, Yukon, etc) is that they dont have roller bearings. They all have much thicker "crosses" and put a lot better metal into making them. They write up you posted from completeoffroad makes good points that can be applied to all of the aftermarket hi dollar joints.

IIRC, the larger aftermarket joints need larger axle shafts too... so keep that in mind if you want a bigger joint than stock.

I went with the Yukon super joints and Yukon chromoly d44 shafts when I snapped my stock ones (was on borrowed time there anyway w/35"s). I got the whole setup from Mike @ CompleteOffRoad .. I figured I dont want to take it all apart again anytime soon.

What joints are you running now? Have you broke them?

as of now i was running stock joints and shafts. Tires are 37's but i thought i would be ok with the 2.9 which has absolutly no torque and going eaisy on it...some how they blew up on snow. both u-joints and the stubshaft. so im going for yukon chromo shafts and i just wanted to make sure i get a good u-joint that will hold up since im uppin the motor to a efi 351.

[bobbywalter]

as of now i was running stock joints and shafts. Tires are 37's but i thought i would be ok with the 2.9 which has absolutly no torque and going eaisy on it...some how they blew up on snow. both u-joints and the stubshaft. so im going for yukon chromo shafts and i just wanted to make sure i get a good u-joint that will hold up since im uppin the motor to a efi 351.


you have a doubler?

[crawldaddy]

I have the randy's/Yukon joint in my buggy and i beat the hell out of that thing and they are holding up great and i have had it on the rocks about 10 time.

[2dub]

you have a doubler?

......um no.....are you asking because of my user name? The user name is because my last name has 2 W's in it.

[tsmall07]

so is there any point in going for these more expensive joints if you arn't running cromo's? it seems like you would just break shafts a lot more with a stronger joint

[NetBSD]

so is there any point in going for these more expensive joints if you arn't running cromo's? it seems like you would just break shafts a lot more with a stronger joint


im wondering the same, i have yet to get my hands on a d60 so it looks like im going to be beefing up my 44 till i can get a decent 60 under there

[Proeliator]

CTM's have the best track record. I know personally that they hold up to stupid abuse with 45" ag tires and 600+hp, so you can't go wrong there.

[bobbywalter]

......um no.....are you asking because of my user name? The user name is because my last name has 2 W's in it.



no. i figured you had a doubler or an atlas with 5.3 or 4.0 or something.

but if your smoking 44 shit with a 2.9 and stock low range with 37 inch tires you may want to go right to a 60 or pop some 60 c's on your 44 and run 35 spline 60 shafts and 35 spline locker.

cause that 351 is gonna really be expensive for use with a reg 44 unless you seriously adjust your driving style.

i have a 5.0 in my truck that makes a bit better then stock 351 power and my d35 hates that fawker.

[bobbywalter]

and my 8.8 and some arb's too....and thats with 35's not 37's....in michigan terrain. read sissy compared to con.

[4x4junkie]

so is there any point in going for these more expensive joints if you arn't running cromo's? it seems like you would just break shafts a lot more with a stronger joint
I think some manufacturers don't warranty the joints unless you use chromos (not sure why though, seems the joint would be more likely to survive in the soft metal of a OEM shaft than a chromo).

With stock (non-alloy) shafts, there's no need to go better than a 5-760x. The stock shaft will still break first (at the neckdown, or rip the ears).
Put some full-circle retaining rings on them (or weld the caps in) and call it good.

[67eb_in_619]

I have seen a CTM break on a d44 w/ a mildly built 351 on 37"s .. If you are spending the $ on the chromoly shafts, buy the yukon/randy joints too and be done with it. If you got by this long on the stockers, you shouldnt have to take these apart again for a while (just remember to grease them more often!!)

[2dub]

so is there any point in going for these more expensive joints if you arn't running cromo's? it seems like you would just break shafts a lot more with a stronger joint

Sorry I guess I wasn’t clear enough, the stock axel shafts are broken. I am going to buy chromo shafts and I am asking about u-joints because I want to get the best set up with the chromos. I just assumed that chromos were implied since I don’t think you can even run stock shafts with the performance u-joints without drilling the ears larger. I guess we all know what happens when you assume though, you make an ASS out of U and ME. Sorry ill try to be clearer from now on.

As for the gearing on the ranger it sucks right now even with the 5.13s but the F250 i picked up with the 5.8 has a ZF which is going to go into the truck as well, so that means granny gear.

The breaking of the stock stuff so easily I am pretty sure was mostly because of the age of the joints. I had bought the axel off some other kid who tired to strait axel a ranger but gave up and I didn’t replace the joints when I bought it so I think they were just at the end of there time. Then when the u-joint broke I am pretty sure it was the snapping force of the yokes slamming together that broke the short side axel inside the housing, impact load on an already fatigued shaft

[bobbywalter]

ahhh. well alrighty then.

but a zf and a 351 is one wicked tractor ass axle killer combo from hell.
















i think i am jealous.

[Proeliator]

Thats the thing, if you are spending money on chromoly shafts why go cheap on the u-joints and risk losing an ear? I will say that the d60 ctm's are the bomb, but for a d44 I'd go with the longfields.

[2dub]

Thats the thing, if you are spending money on chromoly shafts why go cheap on the u-joints and risk losing an ear? I will say that the d60 ctm's are the bomb, but for a d44 I'd go with the longfields.

Thats what i was thinking but the only thing is the CTM's will cost more than the chromo axel shafts. So its like where do you draw the line?

[GubNi]

so is there any point in going for these more expensive joints if you arn't running cromo's? it seems like you would just break shafts a lot more with a stronger joint

Every front shaft I have broken was a ujoint failure that took out the shaft. With better joints I think it will take much more abuse to break a shaft. If (or when) I start breaking shafts somewhere else then I'll get chomoly shafts.

[Proeliator]

So its like where do you draw the line?

It falls under that "you can't afford to be cheap" category. As Gubni pointed out, u-joint failure is a huge killer of shafts. After dumping the coin on the chromos you just don't want to set them up for failure with a cheap joint. Believe me, I had serious buttpucker when I plunked down my $500 for a single pair of u-joints (on sale at that :laughing: )but its the smart thing to do when your upgrading your shafts.

[2dub]

It falls under that "you can't afford to be cheap" category. As Gubni pointed out, u-joint failure is a huge killer of shafts. After dumping the coin on the chromos you just don't want to set them up for failure with a cheap joint. Believe me, I had serious buttpucker when I plunked down my $500 for a single pair of u-joints (on sale at that :laughing: )but its the smart thing to do when your upgrading your shafts.

Yeah that’s around the same thing i was thinking but my only hold back is that with the stronger shafts and u-joints my R&P becomes the weak link (especially with 5.13's). So if a cheaper Yukon or Spicer joint will handle more than the R&P then there is no reason to spend the extra money on the CTM's. That is where my dilemma is.

[JeepinCJ7]

Yeah that’s around the same thing i was thinking but my only hold back is that with the stronger shafts and u-joints my R&P becomes the weak link (especially with 5.13's). So if a cheaper Yukon or Spicer joint will handle more than the R&P then there is no reason to spend the extra money on the CTM's. That is where my dilemma is.

Not necessarily true. I found that my driveshafts is where the fuse moved. I ran Warns and CTMs up front, and 31 spline Superiors in the rear on 37s. The pinion is the issue on the front with the 5.13s. Pinion is small on that gear set. However, I also ran 5.13s, and never had an issue. Did plenty of Hammers trails on that setup, and the only thing I ever broke was my driveshafts. I had a one ton drivetrain (built 302/NV4500/Atlas 4.3), and the fuse moved to the shafts. Broke two rears and three fronts.

IMHO, CTMs are the shit. 300M is stronger than cromoly, but you really can't go wrong with any of the high end u-joint these days. They are all way stronger than the Spicer stuff. In my new build-up, I am planning on either going to straight to a D60, or to run the Yukon shafts and joints and see how they go in a fullwidth D44. I installed some OX joints in a D44 a few weeks ago and those were some damn nice joints. Huge to be honest. Seemed like a good product, but time will tell.

[tsmall07]

Sorry I guess I wasn’t clear enough

i know that wasn't your orriginal question.....that was a bit of a hijack
sorry


with the stronger shafts and u-joints my R&P becomes the weak link

some of my friends around here told me to send my R&P to get cryoed (sp?) when i get the 5.13's. is that a good solution for gear weakness?
also would it do any good to get stock shafts and joints done like that to increase strength some

[2dub]

i know that wasn't your orriginal question.....that was a bit of a hijack
sorry

some of my friends around here told me to send my R&P to get cryoed (sp?) when i get the 5.13's. is that a good solution for gear weakness?
also would it do any good to get stock shafts and joints done like that to increase strength some


cryoed? never heard of that, is it a heat or solution treating process?

[Proeliator]

I don't think the R&P will be your weak point. Me and at least one buddy with a setup like mine run 5.13s and haven't had problems. Cryo'ing could buy you piece of mind if you like though. In laymans terms, its a controlled deep freeze cycle that strengths the material.

[Saurian]

As Pro said, controlled freezing of materials to increase the strength throughout the product. Alot of people swear by it, some don't.

Personally, when I go Chromo/bling U-joint either this fall or over the winter, I plan on looking up a cryo vendor here on the board and having them get the shafts and joints, cryo them, and then have them shipped to me. If I'm gonna drop 600+ dollars on shafts and joints, *I* for one will be going with the peace of mind of having it all cryo'd up for me. Shouldn't add more then 50-75 dollars onto the total cost.

Thread Hijack: Anybody know what joints USA Alloy sends with their D44 4340 shafts? It's a full circlip joint..didn't know if it was an in house joint or some other bling joint. Doin some reading, and their warranty and price may have me hooked.

[tsmall07]

i don't know if i would cryo chrom-moly shafts. as long as your shafts are heat treated from the manufacturer they should be as strong as they're gonna get. crom-moly responds more to heat treating anyway so if they're not treated you should get them heat treated.

just my opinion

[skipped_Link]

I see Pro's the only one that mentioned the longfeild super joint, I am running the D-60 version with yukon cromo's and the quality looks real good, I believe their trunion is larger than the others aswell, I have not had my project togeather long, so I can't give you any long term info, but I have been through one stock 35 spline D70 rear axle, one C-6 sprag, and one C-6 input shaft & converter, The axles and joints are still like new,

This is all with 44" tires

[LeviGarrett76]

you forgot to mention the blown big block...i think thats kinda hard on parts too

[skipped_Link]

I see Pro's the only one that mentioned the longfeild super joint, I am running the D-60 version with yukon cromo's and the quality looks real good, I believe their trunion is larger than the others aswell, I have not had my project togeather long, so I can't give you any long term info, but I have been through one stock 35 spline D70 rear axle, one C-6 sprag, and one C-6 input shaft & converter, The axles and joints are still like new,

This is all with 44" tires

And a Blown alky injected big block FORD,

Will that work:cool2:

I just figured broken parts are broken parts, no matter how I got them,

[Proeliator]

And a Blown alky injected big block FORD,

Will that work:cool2:



YES! :D

I'm looking forward to you getting more time on the clock. I figure whatever you don't manage to break will be a great testimonial to that product :p

I wouldn't hesitate running the longfields over the CTM's, I don't think you can go wrong with either one. Although, when I last compared awhile ago the longfields were actually stronger in the 44 flavor over their ctm counterpart. I'm mostly interested how your rear yukons hold up :)

[skipped_Link]

You and Ivan will be the first to know If one fails,
There are a lot of links in my chain that might be weak, wich one will fail next :evil: only time will tell, one thing about it, I won't be pussy footin it trying to save a part,

[LeviGarrett76]

i have a feeling your going to have teh same problem as monsterbaby....you shouldnt ever have front axle problems because the tires wont really be touching anything:D

[skipped_Link]

Only time will tell,
Sorry fo the high jack 2dub, another option, that may be a little more budget oriented would be to have a set of spicers cryoed, I know longfield use to sell them before he went to the 300M joints, and I heard a lot of good about his cryoed joints,

[LeviGarrett76]

is there anywhere other than 66cjdean to get stuf flike that cryoed?

[Proeliator]

I really have no idea of how available that is. I'd nose around your local machine shops and see if they know.

[OX]

How does the grease hold up on any of these bearingless super joints? Specially running a bit of mud. Both paragon and rausch have plenty of mild mudholes that are unavoidable in the middle of harder trails.........

[bobbywalter]

strap the grease gun next to the fire extinguisher......and mark it grease gun, wont work for fires.:flipoff2:

[mj]

I really have no idea.

truer words were never spoken.

[Proeliator]

Its clear by your random snipes that you are so blazingly butthurt by me from that incident six years ago its amazing you can even walk without a limp :laughing:

No valid tech to contribute as usual or is that the best you can do to run up your post count :shaking:

Ah well, keep it up cocksocket, you're only making yourself look pathetic :flipoff2:

[Jrod-13]

Imho, if one is ponying up the money to buy cromo shafts, joints that as strong as, or stronger is a must. Even if it DID move your weak point to the R&P, you still have to concider cost analysis here.. whats a set of gears? $140, and a afternoon of your trime.
If you pop a joint, your looking at another $25 for a joint, plus $200 for two new shafts..

I've always found it's better to have the joints stronger than the shafts, cost wise.

Back when my truck was TTB in the front, I broke one cheap joint, result? two earless shafts, and one bad joint.
After doing a SAS, I popped two more joints, the first one, taking out both shafts, the second whiping just the stub.
Now I run 760's, welded in, and I know the weak point will be moved to either the ears, or the neckdown. If you break a shaft at the neckdown, you can still reuse the stub, and possibly the joint. if you tear a ear off, the other shaft MIGHT still be useable. 99.9% of the time when a joint goes, it takes both shafts with it.
Time will tell this summer, as I still have 4.5 pairs of spares left to chew up before I get a 60.

One of my wheeling buddies has a 83' bronco that is a axle destroying machine. he runs ONLY spicer 760's in it.
Back when it was on 33's, with a auto, and balless 302, it popped 4 shafts, one broke at the neckdown, the other threes broke ears off the shafts.
last fall it got a pickup cab(around 3500lbs now), 400, 4 speed and 38's

Now I think the current total is around 15 shafts or so it's destroyed, every time, with spicer 760's tacked in with 4 small beads.
Of all them, only ONCE has a 760 broken, I remember one shaft it broke, we found and ENTIRE EAR of a shaft laying the mud, with a cap still tacked in place..
I think that alone is a testement to the 760 being conciderably stronger than stock shafts.

[jopes]

biggest u joint failure causer is the clips working out. then the game is over.

[bobbywalter]

and the biggest cause of shaft failure is tack welds or full clips:flipoff2:





save the shaft neckdowns!!!!!.....call your local congressman and demand a ban cap welding and full circlip use!!!!!!



do it now....before the world ends....this saving of the shaft neckdowns will stop global warming!!!!