c4 and atlas question

[High5]

i run a vortec 350/th400/ atlas in my current rig. i am going to be building a new rig in the near future and i plan to run a 5.0. i was considering just adapting my th400/atlas combo to the ford motor ( for $$$ reasons) but i have about decided to go with a c4. i want the c4 becuase of the size and weight of it. anyway my atlas has a 31 spline input from the th400 and i need to know if the c4 tail shaft can be cut down and resplined to this size (not sure of the diameter) or will i not only need to buy an c4-atlas adapter but also the new input shaft for the atlas?

also i prefer an auto to be an auto. so no reverse manual valve bodies. other than that what do i need to do to a c4 so it will take approx 300 horse?

thanks

[JackA]

I am also working on a 5.0 ho to c4 to dana 300, same as atlas basically. What I found is that the shorty adapter for the c4 to atlas/300 only comes in 27 spline output for the tranny. Not sure if you could change that. The other thing is that with the shorty adapter, you have to run a manual valve body. Something to do with removing some solenoid when installing the adapter. Hope this helps.

[Mr.N]

i run a vortec 350/th400/ atlas in my current rig. i am going to be building a new rig in the near future and i plan to run a 5.0. i was considering just adapting my th400/atlas combo to the ford motor ( for $$$ reasons) but i have about decided to go with a c4. i want the c4 becuase of the size and weight of it. anyway my atlas has a 31 spline input from the th400 and i need to know if the c4 tail shaft can be cut down and resplined to this size (not sure of the diameter) or will i not only need to buy an c4-atlas adapter but also the new input shaft for the atlas?

also i prefer an auto to be an auto. so no reverse manual valve bodies. other than that what do i need to do to a c4 so it will take approx 300 horse?

thanksAbout teh best you can do is 28 splines...
H= the Governor Assembly area.
http://4x4axleinfo.com/img/C4/diagram/C4_tailshaft_measurements.jpg
from: http://4x4axleinfo.com/fordc4.htm

A good Stock rebuild C4 should take 300, just get one with a H or R servo and 5 clutches to rebuild.

[Mr.N]

Look into the #9 mod.

[High5]

Look into the #9 mod.

what is the #9 mod? thanks

[rock-rod]

I am also working on a 5.0 ho to c4 to dana 300, same as atlas basically. What I found is that the shorty adapter for the c4 to atlas/300 only comes in 27 spline output for the tranny. Not sure if you could change that. The other thing is that with the shorty adapter, you have to run a manual valve body. Something to do with removing some solenoid when installing the adapter. Hope this helps.

On the atlas, the input shaft is very easy to change. Should cost about $200 for the parts and about 1.5 hrs work to complete once the t-case is on the bench. I did this when I went from a 23 spline to 31 spline when switching from an NV4500 to a C6.

[Mr.N]

what is the #9 mod? thanks
Make sure read the Monster thread on the C4!
Pirate4x4.com TOTM: Automatic Transmissions (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157244)

Also check the Pump mod.


#9 Oil improvement
1. To improve oiling to the #9 thrust washer, drill through the back of the case into the rear oil cooler return line passage to pick up direct lubrication for that thrust washer and drill the washer to match.

Drill 1/16" oil feed for #9 thrust washer

#9 Oil improvement
3. Machine the case to fit a thrust bearing. Although this is a common stage 2 mod, I don't recommend it. It thins the back of the case, and for the above kit will cost about the same as a machine shops time. Now if you disagree with me, your most likely chasing ET's.
Drill this passage to 3/16" to open it up slightly from 5/32". The hole in the case for the cooler fitting is quite a restriction so opening it up should improve flow slightly.

#9 Oil improvement
2. You can also add a different sized thrust bearing in the very important #9 position with a kit Jay from Broader Performance developed and they are at http://www.broaderperformance.com/page8.html $55

[High5]

Thanks!

[Quick & Dirty]

There is a forum on Fordmuscle with some good info on C4's;

http://www.fordmuscle.com/forums/c4-transmissions/index.html

Here is a "monster" thread with build info edited together;

http://www.fordmuscle.com/forums/c4-transmissions/monster-c4-thread-text-edited-way-long-version2_9911.html

[YJ4RoX]

About teh best you can do is 28 splines...
H= the Governor Assembly area.
http://4x4axleinfo.com/img/C4/diagram/C4_tailshaft_measurements.jpg
from: http://4x4axleinfo.com/fordc4.htm

A good Stock rebuild C4 should take 300, just get one with a H or R servo and 5 clutches to rebuild.


Sorry to drag up old threads but I am trying to figure out this C4-Atlas/D300 adapter.

So the #7 area of the C4 shaft is 27 spline correct? So all you do is cut the shaft off were #6 & #7 meets and a 27 spline atlas input splines right on. So in theory with a 27 spline input in the D300 you have the same thing.

EXACTLY what other mods need to be done to the C4 to run the AA short atals adapter?

I would much rather make my own adapter (I have a full machine shop here at work) and just cut the stock shaft down and only have to buy the new D300 input. Now for the atlas 27 spline input, does the AA adapter kit require the long or short snout input? I know JB conversions sells 2 different 27 spline inputs for the d300.

I want to run a 5.0L/C4/short adapter and my flipped D300 with a 4:1.

Thanks for any info. Are any of my assumtions correct?

MrN, how is your home made C4-NP203 adapter going?

[High5]

thnaks for bringing this back up. i just got my adapter from AA and there are no directions with it. i plan to go tear down my c4 as soon as i get off of here but i am curious as to when needs to be done. when i origionally called AA they said there was something that needed to be turned in a lathe. i would have though directions would have come with it since there is more to it that just swapping a tail shaft.

[Mr.N]

Sorry to drag up old threads but I am trying to figure out this C4-Atlas/D300 adapter.

So the #7 area of the C4 shaft is 27 spline correct? So all you do is cut the shaft off were #6 & #7 meets and a 27 spline atlas input splines right on. So in theory with a 27 spline input in the D300 you have the same thing.
Nope, it's a finer 37 spline

I was looking at doing this
http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/img/tranny/c42wdsft.gif

but after I found out AA sells just the shaft... I'm looking at
http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/img/tranny/c4newAAsft.gif


EXACTLY what other mods need to be done to the C4 to run the AA short atals adapter?
There is a thread in this section that covers this with good pictures.
Note: you have to run without the governor. I'm going to try blocking off the governor to see what that does, but I've spare parts if stuff goes wrong.


I would much rather make my own adapter (I have a full machine shop here at work) and just cut the stock shaft down and only have to buy the new D300 input. Now for the atlas 27 spline input, does the AA adapter kit require the long or short snout input? I know JB conversions sells 2 different 27 spline inputs for the d300.
Can you make me one? Payment for the time in mspaint? :D

Check out Wild horses page on trannies, you'll find info there.


I want to run a 5.0L/C4/short adapter and my flipped D300 with a 4:1.

Thanks for any info. Are any of my assumtions correct?

MrN, how is your home made C4-NP203 adapter going?
Slow, as everything I do ;)
I've some C4 parts for sale, as soon as they sell I'm buying the C4 AA shorty shaft.

Here is pics of what I have
http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/img/tranny/C4_4x4_core05.jpg
http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/img/tranny/C4_cutshaft_203.jpg

[Mr.N]

thnaks for bringing this back up. i just got my adapter from AA and there are no directions with it. i plan to go tear down my c4 as soon as i get off of here but i am curious as to when needs to be done. when i origionally called AA they said there was something that needed to be turned in a lathe. i would have though directions would have come with it since there is more to it that just swapping a tail shaft.
I think its the parking pawl, or the pin that holds it. It's in that one thread in this section, can't remeber who started it... I know I posted like crasey in it.

[High5]

I think its the parking pawl, or the pin that holds it. It's in that one thread in this section, can't remeber who started it... I know I posted like crasey in it.

i found the directions. (i am an idiot) anyway you are correct the pin needs to be shortened and also the gov. housing has to be cut/milled down to .53".

i just cut mine with a chop saw and i am going to take it to work and finish it off with the mill.

[Mr.N]

i found the directions. (i am an idiot) anyway you are correct the pin needs to be shortened and also the gov. housing has to be cut/milled down to .53".

i just cut mine with a chop saw and i am going to take it to work and finish it off with the mill.
How much you charge for that service?

[YJ4RoX]

Thanks for the info. I also called AA yesterday to get prices and such.
I forgot to ask if they sold just the shorty output.

MrN how much is the shorty output shaft? Its hard for be to shell out almost $500 for the full adapter, plus 200 for the D300 input. Especially when I can make the adapter(well have my machinist make the adapter).
Good luck with your 203 set up, I was running a 203/d300 doubler. I loved it, actually it was one of the only things I kept when I parted out the jeep. I used a chevy case with a 23 spline dodge input. I am planning on a 4:1 in the d300 and ditching the 203. That will shave over 120lbs from my drivetrain and 9".

HIGH5, can you post up some install pics and/or the machined area pics? Just for a reference.

FWIW, JB conversions sells 3 different 27 spline d300 inputs. Not sure if any match the fine spline on the stock c4 shaft or not.

Thanks for all the info guys!
Jeremy

[Mr.N]

Thanks for the info. I also called AA yesterday to get prices and such.
I forgot to ask if they sold just the shorty output.

MrN how much is the shorty output shaft? Its hard for be to shell out almost $500 for the full adapter, plus 200 for the D300 input. Especially when I can make the adapter(well have my machinist make the adapter).
Good luck with your 203 set up, I was running a 203/d300 doubler. I loved it, actually it was one of the only things I kept when I parted out the jeep. I used a chevy case with a 23 spline dodge input. I am planning on a 4:1 in the d300 and ditching the 203. That will shave over 120lbs from my drivetrain and 9".
Jeremy
They sell it, $152 is the quote I was given. Out of stock last month...

I'm thinking the same as you on that, figure I'll "try" to make it. Heck it's my 3rd C4 so I've plenty backup.

I've a heavy Jeep already, plus I'm looking forward to have more gears to try.

Make sure to take lots of pics of your adapter and post! (or PM me ;) ) Best of luck.

For the 9" Next year/winter I'm going to try a 14B shaft shorten and resplined to a 9". See if I can't make a 8 on 6.5" bolt pattern 9". If I win the lottery I'd go Hi9 35 spline on it.

[YJ4RoX]

I meant i will shorten my drivetrain by 9" in length. the 8 lug 9" sounds like a cool project. I am still trying to decide between a 35 spline 9" or a SF 35 spline 60. the 60 will be cheaper but heavier.

I will be sure to post up plenty of adapter pics if i go that route. $152 is a good deal, I can buy that and the 27 spline d300 input and be under the AA kit cost. The adapter pics on WIldhorses looks super simple. I would probably go all steel to save more money and to utilize the scrap we have here at work. We have plenty of 4140 and 4340.

I wonder if there is any way to make it shorter than 3"? From the pics it looks like there is a 3/8" plate that bolts to the back of the c4 then the aluminum adapter between that plate and the tcase.

It seems to me you could use the short/flush 27 spline input and move the 300 or atlas closer to the c4 plate and still have adequate spline engagement. (1.375" is usually the goal for engagement).

I will try to find a c4 in the next week or two and tear into it.

HIGH5 Can you please post up some detailed install and adapter pics?

MR.N do you know if the Merc Mountaineer 5.0's are exactly the same as the exploder 5.0's?

Thanks
Jeremy

[kpj]

Here is the thread with the shorty C4 adapter and a ton of pics. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough driveline length to run the 203/205 doubler, so when I drag the C4 back out again I may go with a 241 doubler to a 300 in my Scrambler. On a side note, I may be willing to sell the C4 as I won't be using it anytime soon (winter at the earliest).

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366979

[High5]

How much you charge for that service?

i really can't be doing jobs for other people at work or i would.

i did get mine done today. i chopped a big section off with my chop saw last night and used a mill to take it down until i was about .020 shy. i then used a surface grinder to take the last .020 off and it turned out real nice. the bolt holes also need to be countersunk which i also did. turned out real nice.


as for the request for pic's the answer is no. my son broke my didital camera some time ago and i still have not replaced it. sorry.

i got my shorty adapter from polyperformance for under $400.

[Mr.N]

MR.N do you know if the Merc Mountaineer 5.0's are exactly the same as the exploder 5.0's?

Thanks
JeremyNot sure, never seen one. However knowing Ford... I'd guess it's the same for the same year exploder.

[Mr.N]

Here is the thread with the shorty C4 adapter and a ton of pics. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough driveline length to run the 203/205 doubler, so when I drag the C4 back out again I may go with a 241 doubler to a 300 in my Scrambler. On a side note, I may be willing to sell the C4 as I won't be using it anytime soon (winter at the earliest).

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366979Sorry it's didn't work out..