I have been looking at an atlas II for my wrangler along with a Klune V but lately I have been having second thoughts on that because of not only the price but the fact that a friend of mine. You might know him as elfcruiser, has taken some pins out of his 205 and he now can get 2wd front high which would be nice with a Klune V so that it would allow for two separate 2wd front lows. My question now that you have all this info is how strong is a dana 20? can I get heavy duty output shafts for it front and rear? and can I pull these pins out and get 2wd high front in this case also? I know that this means that if I push the shifters completely apart the T-case will blow up but I will probably connect them in some way so that they cant be pushed all the way apart. I am mostly considering the dana 20 because I can get one from an early bronco that drops on the driver side and also because they offer 4.86 gears for them now, which is bad ass. :smokin: Well I know that was alot ot absorb but I would really appreciate it if you guys would let me know what you know. Thanx


Also will the dana 20 bolt to the standard new venture bolt pattern?

well ill start by saying that you are a homo. yes you can get a 32 spline output for a 20 rear call jesse at high angle. He said that with one of these shafts they are almost as strong as a dana 300 built the same way once again you represent the :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: side of the wheeling force
maybe you should make up your mind so we can go wheeling sometime ya fawkin newbie:flipoff2:

here's a pic of the 32 spline conversion-

I am thinking 300 now because of the waythat the bolt pattern will line up with the klune I guess I will go with that flip kit. and then build it up from there. Hey jess, do you know if they make a heavy duty output for the front of a 300?

20's are a dime a dozen. The problem guys around here are having is they are trashing the adapter that goes between a 20 & a TH400. And those are getting tough to find.


TEX

I run a Jeep D20 and have beat the piss out of it. No problems so far. And yes :( it's got the coarse spline output shaft. But I have pleanty of spares (3 laying on the side of my house) and it's an easy trail fix. So until I can afford the HD output, I'll carry my spare and keep going.

Oh and it's behind a T18 and tree fiddy on 38's.

yes you can remove the interlocks and get FWD with either a d20 or a d300...

I did a review on it
http://www.wt4wheeling.com/tech/outputfront.htm

I have yet to snap it

can you pull the interlocks out of an atlass II?

Originally posted by jeeper111
can you pull the interlocks out of an atlass II?

The atlas is a twin stick case.

i have not seen the front output conversion as of yet- :D

THe front is a little different shaft, but then again, i never broke one so i never looked into upgradeing it, I have heard of some people snapping them, but those are guys with 60's
a 297 will go way before the front output,
then again with CTM's and a Jess' shaft, you will probally be able to snap it

Originally posted by jeeper111
and also because they offer 4.86 gears for them now, which is bad ass. :smokin: W



from where, and how much$$$?

Jack O'Brian makes them, best place to buy them is BC Broncos.

They run $1529 for the 4.86 gears. Heard they hold up well, but I'm still undecided about the HD output + gears vs Atlas II. Your already at $1929+ for the upgrades to the Dana 20, and you still have the "weak" front output.....

This may be a little off topic but, do I remove both interlock pins or just one of them (either the front or rear one) to get independent control?

Both. just don't go FH and RL or :nuke: :nuke:

Originally posted by onetoncv
here's a pic of the 32 spline conversion-

how much is that conversion running jess?

swamper502,calm down,buddy.itll be ok,i promise. :flipoff2:

just thot id point out that if you use a d20 froma full size jeep with the U shift pattern,no internal mods are needed. just pull off the box and add twin sticks,voila, FWD hi,lo,rwd hi,lo,4wd,hi,lo skys the limit :)

jeeper111,no neither the jeep d20 or the bronco d20 will bolt to the NP/NVG round pattern. id avoid the bronco 20 cause the work involved in mating it to whatever tranny youre using is not worth it.

do you have a tj or a yj? just wonderin why your fighting so hard to keep the driver side diff. if you got a yj,its pretty easy to swap in a 44 from somethin else,and then you wont have to spend $700 on a d300 flip kit.

Hey, sorry i haven't chimed in until now you fawkin homo!!! I've been busy doing some technical stuff to the cruiser... new shocks, bumpstops etc... It's nice when your drivetrain is intact, in your vehicle, and operating with some degree of normalcy, instead of spread across the parking lot like your Jepp was just another chainsaw massacre victim...

sorry - so here is what you should do... Get yer fawkin klune-V, buy victor's 300, go for the 32 spline output and 4:1 gears, then put that fawking rockwell in the CORRECT way. Then deal with the diff being on the passenger side, ya wimp! Call Jesse for shafts, he can whip somethin up!!

P.S. you are still wasting your time, you should be outside working...

I am sick of elcruiser and swamper502. You are both :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: I dont want to hear from people that have 1 ton drive trains or crappy T-cases that are missing parts and are about ot explode!!! GO drink some :beer: because that is all you people are good for. You'll get my tires when I am damn well ready to sell them, and if you cant pay up at that time then someone else will get them because more than likely I am going to need the money fast. You two should go have :rainbow: sex somewhere and get that sexual tension you two have with each other over with. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Biiiiioooooooootch!!!:rasta:

http://www.rightcoastcrawler.com/LloydC/tech/TrannyProject.html

bronco 20s are driver's side drop, jeep 20s are passenger side drop. That means you would need a bronco 20, and there are not a lot of choices to hook it up - other than a 435, which happens to be a granny low 4 spd! You can do several different kinds of dual transfer case options, blah blah blah. Stength, well, that's always a debated issue.... what are you putting in front of it? I6 should be fine.

BUT is you've got the cash for a Klune, why not atlas???? The atlas is stronger than anything else, I'd have one if I could afford it. That interlock thing is great, but an atlas is way better. It'll shift easier, get all the fwd, rwd, 4wd you want, and (unlike the non interlocked 20) will NOT let you put one in low and the other in high.

Just my 2c. I have a 20, but if I could afford it, I'd have an atlas.

Chad

yeah but you cant get 2wd front high in an atlas and if I am going to run a klune v then I will have two different low fronts if I can put the T-case in 2wd front high. Besides I think that atlases are too expensive anyway. I will run a 300 and flip it more than likely because I have more room for the driveshaft on the drivers side due to the 350. If I break a front ouput I will see about getting novak to build me a custom one seeing as they do custom work and that would put it at about the same strength as an atlas II so there you have it.

elfcruiser and swamper502 are :rainbow:

Jeeper111, you are still wasting your time...

i must admit,i am also confused by your logic. by the time you buy a d300.a flip kit,a 4 to 1 low range,a beefed up rear output shaft,and have novak custom make a front output,you will prolly have spent more than an atlas would cost.

what tranny are you running? i still dont understand why youre clinging to the driver side diff. you will have a greater selection of transfer cases with a pass side. the only driver side cases worth using,IMO are the ford 205 and the atlas. it completely baffles me that people actually buy the flip kits to avoid swapping a front axle :confused: even if i had a coil sprung tj,id rather put $700 toward having someone custom make me a pass side drop 44 with the appropriate spring buckets,trac bar and control arm mounts,than to run an upside down dana 300.

if you hafta stick with a driver side drop,why not use the ford 205? you can put a klune v in front of a ford 205. the 205 only has a 2 to 1 low,but so what,if you have the 4.3 klune v in front? if youre runnin an auto or a granny manual,that gives you well over a 100:1 crawl(factorig in torq convertor slippage) even with a 2.73 axle gear! :eek: the ford 205 shares the round NP pattern,and you can buy a klune v with a 23 spline in(assuming thats wahts sticking out of your tranny,since youre prolly running a 231 now) and a 31 spline out,for the 205.

BTW,there is an easy way to prevent an accidental front high/rear low situation in a twin sticked 20, or 205, WITHOUT making some goofy safety brakets for the shifters... :smokin:

how about some more details of what you got, so we can give better advice,rather than guess ing what axles you got and what tranny youre running,etc.

POSER111 is running a TBI350, and a SM420. he already has the novak adapter for the 420-6 bolt New Venture pattern, so a Klune is the obvious middle-man. I don't know either why he wants to keep the driver's side drop...

You all have to understand, this guy changes his mind like a baby changing diapers. He once told me that he wanted to run dana 20's mounted at the pinions with pneumatic shifters for low range boxes:smokin: :smokin: :smokin:

We get good crack here in waco, and jeeper111 likes to toke it up!!!

I will vbe running 2.5 rockwells in about one month and I know that you can have the diff on either side but with the 350 I am worried that I will not have the roolm on the passenger side due to the size of the starter and I really dont want to have to switch out to a mean green or something small like that. Plus I just like knowing that the diff is right out there in front of me. I can feel where it is better when I am driving if you know what I mean. I really dont want a 205 because I dont want to run a 4 to 1 klune. They are the weaker version. what is this other way of keeping your t-case from blowing up and still retaining the use of front 2wd high???? I am really interested to know. Thanx.


elfcruiser smokes pole!!! Thats what he likes to tok on or at least that is what swamper502 told me!! HAHAHAHA!!!! your :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow:

where did you get this info on the 4.3 klune being weaker? if it is,im sure its not enuff to worry about. even if you ran the smaller one,which is what?3.8:1 reduction? that is ALOT of reduction. more than prolly 90% of us will ever need. our trails here are badly rutted,and generally very muddy. ive only got 2.46 low range,and 3.54 axle gears,but i still dont need to use granny 1st unless im climbing or descending a hill. be realistic. how often in your normal trail running are you gonna use a 6+ double low range? if you honestly do,just run the atlas and forget it. its just not logical to do all the mods to a d300 that youre talking bout douing. add up all those costs. im sure it wil put you close enuff to the atlas that youd be stupid not to just use the atlas.

the rockwell is a big diff. youre gonna have clearance prollems no matter where you put it. to make room for the front diff, its gonna be far enuff away from your starter that it wont matter.a driver side rockwell is still gonna be custom. is it worth the work? if it were me,id keep it full width and leave it the F alone,with the pass side diff.but then,id never consider running a d300 upside down.

good luck with your project.

on the twin sticking,all you gotta do is grind alittle on the shift rails and elongate the detents. if done correctly,you can leave the interlock pills in,and they will prevent you from accidentally getting into a high/low situation. friend runs his 205 that way. still has the full range of fwd and rwd only,and cant put one in high other in low. he has been very glad once or twice that its set up that way and it wouldnt let him.

are you sure the atlas won't do fwd? I was pretty sure it would......

Does not look like it
atlas shifting instructions (http://atlas-tc.com/operating/operating.html)

I sure don't see why the Atlas couldn't be run in FWD HI. Just because it's not on the chart doesn't mean it can't be done. If there is some wierd interlock to prevent that position, it shouldn't be too hard to defeat it. Certaily no harder than doing the same thing to a 205 or a 20. Get the Atlas!

if i were actually gonna pay that much for a transfer case,it had not only better give me fwd,but it had also better fetch me my slippers and paper in the morning :rasta: id be pretty upset to discover i had to disassemble my brad new shiny non leaking twin stick atlas and have to MODIFY it for FWD. it shoud come that way,and maybe even be delivered by a big breasted blonde if im gonna shell out that many of my $$$...

Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep
I sure don't see why the Atlas couldn't be run in FWD HI. Just because it's not on the chart doesn't mean it can't be done. If there is some wierd interlock to prevent that position, it shouldn't be too hard to defeat it. Certaily no harder than doing the same thing to a 205 or a 20. Get the Atlas!


All this talk got me interested,and I never tried front high,so i had to go out and check and sure as shit you "Cant" select front high in a Atlas.

Looks like someone needs to firgure this one out:D

So there goes my thought on limping home on the front,but I guess you could always pull the rear DS and do it:)

Rob

saprobe

your wrong about the klune V. The ratios are not 4.3 and 3.8. They are not made by advanced they are made by klune industries using the new venture planetaries and they are 2.72 and 4. The othe thing is that I am leaving them full width. I will probably leave the diff on the passenger side but I am just worried about clearence. The atlas does not have 2wd front high and it something that I definetely want so I will need to go with something else. If I dont do the flip kit then I will be no where near the price of an atlas.

The atlas does not have 2wd front high

yep, and neither does the 205, if you just "grind" the shift rail indentions. that's why i pulled my interlock pins out. You can grind the rails to get rear low, and front low, but if you grind the front range rail far enough to go into hi gear while rear is in neutral, the rear can also go into low. James from ORD explained it to me on the phone when i was trying to decide what to do. Pulling the interlock pins is no big deal. As long as you are not a raging moron (Swamper502), you won't have a problem blowing the case apart. It is pretty obvious when 1 is in hi, and 1 is in low, ya know...


laters-

Originally posted by elf_cruiser


yep, and neither does the 205, if you just "grind" the shift rail indentions. that's why i pulled my interlock pins out. You can grind the rails to get rear low, and front low, but if you grind the front range rail far enough to go into hi gear while rear is in neutral, the rear can also go into low. James from ORD explained it to me on the phone when i was trying to decide what to do. Pulling the interlock pins is no big deal. As long as you are not a raging moron (Swamper502), you won't have a problem blowing the case apart. It is pretty obvious when 1 is in hi, and 1 is in low, ya know...


laters-

im not sure why james at ORD would give you fictitious information,but im telling you,my frined has a 77 gmc with an sm465/205,and he did the grind the shift rail method. he has a FWD high,and he cannot shift the rear into low.

for te record,id prolly just pull the pills.its really not such a big deal to double check the shifter positions before you let out the clutch. :) if i were that paranoid,tho,of blowing it up,id defiantely grind the rails before id make goofy stops or brackets for the shifters...

jeeper111,whatever on the ratios for the klune v.i realize theyre not bade by AA,but i cant have one without a bunch of adapters,and i can never afford one anyway,so id forgotten the ratios of the different ones. youre making alot more sense to swap in a stock d300 and leave it alone,in the right side up position,but i still think youre obsessed with havig a large number for your crawl ratio,wether you really need it or not. i clung to the round NP pattern for along time with various trannies and xfers,cause i eventually wanted a klune v.

now it would be really cool to drive past camp,put it in grany double low(with 4:1 lows) and 4.88 axle gears,get out,cook some hotdoges,eat,take a piss,BS by the fire a few minutes,then walk 10 feet to catch up with the jeep cause thats all the further its gone. yeah id love it,but id very seldom actually NEED it. lotta folks would need it,maybe yore one of em,dnt know. all im sayin is evaluate your needs,dont get caught up in all the hype created by mags and tech forums. you dont have to have 44s,rocwells,and a 600:1 crawl to have fun in the woods.

oh yeah,if youre dead set on a FWD high,you may be back to a 20 or a 205. i have been told fwd high is not possible with a d300 casue the shift forks will not pass one aother to get into this arragement. not sure if its true or not,my stock d300 did not have it,but i dint know if you could modify it(removig pills or grinfig rails) or if the forks will still prevent it,you you may want to research that before handig over any nonrefundable $$$ for a d300.

It might be true that you cannot get fwd HIGH, but you CAN get fwd LOW, isn't that basically all you'd want? To me it looks perfect!

Chad

As long as you are not a raging moron (Swamper502), you won't have a problem blowing the case apart

what the fuck was this for bitch im not the one polishing that turd in your drive way:flipoff2:

dana 300 will do front high...;)

how do you know Troutbum?????:confused:

Swamper502, at least i polish my turd in MY parking lot, instead of leaving my junk in ANOTHER CITY!!!! BTW, you can't even shift into revcerse without disengaging the rear drive, so STFU!!!

cause I have done it, along with a bunch of others on here... Took a couple of hours and that was using the d18 shifters, if you use the currie set it would be a lot less, no welding or grinding. Not worth half the cash they are asking for them but from what I hear they are easy.

what internal mods did you make? my stock d300,with the interlock pill in,and currie twin stick definately would NOT let me have fwd high. fwd low yes,not fwd high...

is all the mod in the shifters or do you have to pull the interlock pins as well???? I have a friend with the currie shifters and they seem like they are pretty good. Why are they easier? Thanx for all the info!!!

to use the currie shifters,you do not have to make any internal mods.however,on my stock d300(no internal mods) i bolted on a set of currie shifters and could NOT get fwd high. the shifters let me have all the other positions(fwdlo,rearlo,rearhi,4hi,4lo). to get fwd high you will need to modify the internals,if that is even possible.

the currie shifters are pretty cheesy.iwas pretty unhappy that id spent $149 on em when i opend the box. you could make em real easy,some bolts,washers,few pieces of flat stock,and some cheesy,thin rods to use for shifters.

Hopefully I'll shed some light here: I personally don't see the need for front high, but whatever. AFAIK you will not get it without modding the "internals" I have every combination imaginable in my 20 and have for years, it's no big deal. Or apparently it is! Just so you're not let down after the mod, do the easy method. Remove the interlock pins. Yes, you can cut, grind, weld the shifter rods, but that is alot of work. If you remove the interlocks, you achieve the same thing and don't have to shift in a "certain" pattern to get every imaginable combo. With no interlocks you will no longer have a "dummy proof" case though. So remove those damn things and quitcherbitchin'! As an added bonus: when you park your rig, shift 1 lever into low, 1 into high then if someone tries to steal your rig, they better know your specific shift pattern to be able to drive away. Yes there are different shift patterns for the different cases- jeep 20 and scout 20 are different, then depending if your fulcrum is above or below the shifters, that's two more possibilities then throw the 18, 300 and atlas into the mix and you've got lots of available shift patterns that need to be figured out before theft can happen.

you still have the interlocks to deal with...look at a manual or blow apart....or better yet pull the fawker apart.

Really is sad you can't buy everything "bolt on" :flipoff2:

Oh yeah it will probably void your warranty....:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Aggro
Hopefully I'll shed some light here: I personally don't see the need for front high, but whatever.

Yes there are different shift patterns for the different cases- jeep 20 and scout 20 are different, then depending if your fulcrum is above or below the shifters, that's two more possibilities then throw the 18, 300 and atlas into the mix and you've got lots of available shift patterns that need to be figured out before theft can happen.

FWD high is coom to have in daily driver so when it snows,you can put it in fwd and have very predictable handling caharacteristics. :D a fwd high is kinda cool,hes prolly obsessed with it cause it will give him extra gearing options since hes obsessed with haveing a klune v in front of his xfer( xfer in fwd high,4 to 1 klune engaged)

internally a d20 is a d20. the scout d20 has a shift tower like the d300,andin fact a d300 currie twin stick will bolt to it. there are interlock pills that need to be removed in the scout 20.

a twin sticked scout 20 has the same pattern as a twin sticked jeep 20:left shifter front output,right shifter rear output. pattern is low all the way forward,back into neutral,high all the way back for both sticks. this pattern is true with pretty much all twin sticked cases(except the spicer 18 :( ) the only varience beig on a driver side drop case (ford 205, d20,atlas) the righ t stick becomes the frot output,left is rear output. also if you add extra pivots, then youll flip flop low to back,hig to forward, but whatever. the point is youll have a seperate shiffter for each out put,and it will have a high,neutral and low.

theft deterant,i like it :smokin: leave it in high/lo,yore right prolly 99.5 % of the general theft public would NEVER figure it out,and when the trasfer blew up,you have to replace it,but they wouldnt have stolen it,tight? :D

Why not go KluneV (2.7) and Ford 205 (~2) for a total of ~5.4:1 lo-lo? It would be plenty strong and not too expensive (compaired to the other wackie shit you're thinking of and w/ twin stick mods you get all the options you could ask for and a drivers side drop. Keep It Simple Stupid!!!

Originally posted by saprobe



...a twin sticked scout 20 has the same pattern as a twin sticked jeep 20:left shifter front output,right shifter rear output. pattern is low all the way forward,back into neutral,high all the way back for both sticks. this pattern is true with pretty much all twin sticked cases(except the spicer 18 :( ...:D


I beg to differ... My left shifter is rear axle, my right is front axle...

yeah,youre right :emb4: i forgot to make the little "L" withthe figer and thumb on my left hand. for a pass side drop,left shifter is rear output,right is front. so reverse what i said. you get the point,anyway. :flipoff2:

(yes you can remove the interlocks and get FWD with either a d20 or a d300...)

i have a scout 20 and a jeep 20. i removed the jeep 20 and installed the twinstick scout 20 and it does not have fwd. is there a way to make it have fwd? if not can i put the twinstick on the jeep 20 and will it be able to have fwd? i have had a bronco 20 apart and there are some differences. i thought only bronco 20s had fwd....... if this is possible can someone give me the info or where i can find the info. up here in the NW it is really needed sometimes for our tight tree trails.

I will be living in alaska when I get out of school and I never thought of the front wheel drive high as being useful for the snow but you are right! The real reason that I want it is because I will have a 2.72 kluneV in front of what is probably going to be a dana 300 with a 4:1. If I can get front high in the t-case then I will have the option of 2 seperate front wheel drive lows when you count in the klune V. Call me crazy but I just like options and when I have to take the case apart to install the new output and the low gears anyway it is pretty much free to have it so why wouldn't I do it? I know that it wont be idiot proof but I will probably weld a little ring on the shifter under the boot where you cant see it that does not allow the shifters to seperate more than one position. I understand the hi lo argument for theft protection but I would rather go with a hidden battery cut off switch. That way I dont have to get a new T-case if someone tries to steal my ride.

if someone tries to steal my ride.


HAHAHAHA!!!, as if...

Originally posted by jeeper111
I ...If I can get front high in the t-case then I will have the option of 2 seperate front wheel drive lows when you count in the klune V.

seems to me you will have 3-
-2.72 (klune in low,xfrer in high)
-4 (klune high,xfer in low)
-10.88 (both in low)


hip.you can get fws out of your scout 20 by removing the interlocks,or modifying the detents on the shift rails.

hip.you can get fws out of your scout 20 by removing the interlocks,or modifying the detents on the shift rails.

is there a write up somewhere that explains how and what to do? i would love to be able to crabwalk around stuff when needed.

http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2002/np435d20/

http://www.rightcoastcrawler.com/LloydC/tech/TrannyProject.html

Both of these articles mention it in passing as part of a tranny/transfer case swap.

both of those articles are using an early bronco dana 20 which need no modification to have FWD. i was under the impression that "ONLY" bronco 20s have that ability. if anyone knows a way to make my scout 20 or J series Jeep 20 have FWD low i would love to find a way.

Anyone?

Both the Jeep 20 and the Scout 20 can do it hip. Just dissasemble the case, pull the shift rails all the way out and remove the interlock pills between them.