Ok so I'm goin to need roll protection. I did a search and found lot's of info but seemed to have missed some parts.

If I put in a cage on the inside I will be challenged for space as my rice burner didn't come with an abundance of little nooks and crannies to stuff tubing for a cage. And still leave room for me to be able to get in and out without tripping over something.

QUESTION: How or should I prototype a interior cage. I'm thinking PVC to get a shape. Shouldn't the cage go through the floor/whatever and weld/bolt onto the frame? I'm thinking, DUH. Once you have a cage inside, cna it be made to be removable, just in case? Do you do the final welding inside the vehicle? What do you use to control splatter? Tissue paper or rags soaked in gas won't cut it. :p

If I go exo-cage and despite some opinions I like the mad max look, I think it would require substaintially more tube, adding more weight still. No I don't need an exo to save the body in a roll over but it would be nice for scraping rocks when in tight spaces.

QUESTION: Again how should I prototype it?

If I get a prototype/design I like (big reason for prebuilding the cages) is there somewhere I could send the prototype parts to get them made so I can just weld it up? I don't have a bender and want a cage but need to save a few dollars at least until the cards stop :smokin: ;) . Or is this really saving anything?

And lastly is 1-1/2 120 wall suffecient for either application.

Got some front and side shots for us to draw on????

Squash

I'll take some new pics on Monday. I don't have any straight on ones handy.

For a good example of an easy way to mock-up an interior cage take a look at Popular Hotrodding Magazine from a couple of months ago. They're running a series called "The Mule" and covered building the cage in that issue. I've never done a cage (but a few brush guards and bumpers) but that looks like a good method. You'll play hell trying to make it from PVC pipe. To weld inside the truck use a lightweight blanket made of a natural material (cotton or wool) and wet it to prevent burning. I've done this, it works pretty well.
As you can see I'm a newbie. :flipoff2:

Fire away :D

Mike
:usa:

OK, will have to wait then :) I do think PVC is a good wayto mock it up, given you take into account the difference in the radius of the elbows vs. the die in the real bender.

Squash

I used PVC for a cage mock up. I bent it with a heat gun. :p

Why not just build the cage out of PVC?:flipoff2:

I think you can buy PVC cages at wal-mart now.

exo's are :rainbow:

what are you talking about??? exo-cages rock. they would look especially awesome on his rig because it is still purty!!! :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I used PVC for a cage mock up. I bent it with a heat gun. :p Ditto. It worked great for me, and I had a local muffler shop bend up tube that I supplied on their hydraulic bender... and I took that over to a certified welder to stick it together. The whole adventure cost about $300.

If I were to do it again, I'd just take it to Bob Roggy. At risk of pissing off a large number of folks, I'll argue against most home-welded cages and even some johnny-come-lately shop-built cages... I want to have my cage welded together by someone with a serious welding resume. The MIG process is just too forgiving, easily producing great-looking welds with minimal integrity. My faith in the integrity of the weld comes from the guy behind the gun... so don't cut corners, get a SKILLED and EXPERIENCED welder... and if it is some burly bearded Bob with multiple competition rolls under his belt, even better.

Randii

Belly Dragger,
Sounds like you need to make a trip to Texas . I have a former pipeline welder who can come over and lay down welds like a stack of dimes. Since I already have the "B" pillar proto typed for a internal cage, we can knock out the rest of it in a matter of hours. You can stay in the Motorhome and have all the comforts of home. My largest die is 1 5/8th so if you wanna go with bigger size tubing, we'll need to order it first.
CJ

Please don't ruin that thing with a exo cage man!!!

Pony up the dough and have mike nock out a cage for it. (inside)


You can't make something shitty look good, but it's easy to make something good look shitty

ericfilar@fatcity

Today on Trucks! there was a 66 EB with a PVC roll bar.

I guess the builder of that one mocked up a cage and forgot to finish

EXo's are definately :rainbow: . That is a sweet, all business looking rig that still sports a little class and style. But, if you can't scratch it, don't drive it. Just my opinion. I mean, wheelin' it IS what you built it for, right?

i think exos are pretty cool. and twistedmetal, if wheelin is what he built it for he shouldn't care how it looks...there's no doubt that an exocage is very functional. it's nice to be able to bounce off of rocks.

-Steve

For one, you don't need to trash a vehicle to wheel. Elegant driving is not that hard to achieve. I, myself, choose to wheel with grace, but don't flinch when bad things happen to good sheetmetal. And up here in the Black Hills? NO, exo cages DO NOT "bounce" off of rocks. They hook up, wedge, and tear up trees. If an exo cage tube does get bent, it is just going to rub against the paint for the rest of the trip. And I know I am not going to be happy if I end up waiting for some clown to fix his fawking exo cage because it is rubbing on his stupid paint. Not to mention, if the rig ever did take a rough tumble down a nasty climb, there is a good chance there will be tubes wrapped over hoods preventing the extinguishing of potential fires, or tubes preventing doors from opening. Not good when there is such a high risk of injury or fire.
A lot of wheelers are getting to the point that all that matters is themselves and their rig. A guy with an exo cage is wandering around out there saying "I don't have to worry about my paint anymore," but that just means he no longer minds rubbing it on a few trees now and then. That is not good trail etiquette,nor is it keeping our trails open now is it? I don't like hitting trails and being able to count how many trucks have been there. I'm sure our good friends in the Sierra Club don't either.
Yes, I'm taking this a bit far, but don't tell me that this attitude isn't out there. I feel that body damage is a right of passage. A token of graditude to Mother Nature. Now, pay up.

Originally posted by twistedmetal
They hook up, wedge, and tear up trees. If an exo cage tube does get bent, it is just going to rub against the paint for the rest of the trip. And I know I am not going to be happy if I end up waiting for some clown to fix his fawking exo cage because it is rubbing on his stupid paint. Not to mention, if the rig ever did take a rough tumble down a nasty climb, there is a good chance there will be tubes wrapped over hoods preventing the extinguishing of potential fires, or tubes preventing doors from opening. Not good when there is such a high risk of injury or fire.
A lot of wheelers are getting to the point that all that matters is themselves and their rig. A guy with an exo cage is wandering around out there saying "I don't have to worry about my paint anymore," but that just means he no longer minds rubbing it on a few trees now and then. .

Um, i don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about. If an exo is built right, no tubes should be denting and covering doors or anything.
For instance, i believe camo rolled his truck plenty of times with his and his truck survived just fine.

ya i rolled mine a few dozen times. :D

hey randi i am your basic garage hack welder and non of my welds ever failed. including the few tubes where i filled the 1/4 gap. :flipoff2: then again i do not condone people following my antics.

For one, you don't need to trash a vehicle to wheel.
APPLAUSE!

I am so bored of seeing bad driving masquerading as hard-core, and proving itself with repeated carnage: Carnage in and of itself proves NOTHING.

Elegant driving can be exciting, too -- I have seen Chris Durham throttle down, stop at the top of a massive boulder, stand on the brakes, and induce the front end to fall while still turning with residual momentum, landing with his front wheels pulling and the rear wheels flying. I couldn't have crawled the same line in a Samurai without backing and filling twice, and he did the same line with yards more wheelbase and full control. Freaking amazing... and elegant, too. :D

I feel that body damage is a right of passage. A token of graditude to Mother Nature. Now, pay up.
All that said, I agree with this point, too... I'll say it again: Carnage in and of itself proves NOTHING. ...but I'll add to that, and say that sometimes shit happens.

The trick is to land in the middle, not mauling metal just to be seen as hard core, and also not tip-toeing along and holding up traffic. Helluva post, twisted metal, I haven't seen this expressed so clearly in quite some time. Have a :beer: -- you earned it.

Randii

bring it to me, I'll make an exo kit and I'll incorporate your designs and you can intsall it..:D

i say go exo. yes they don't look as good imo but are we into this for looks? the simple fact is they work. i alway thought they were bulky and caused problems on the trail....that was until a buddy of mine built one. the thing is they can help you an the trail. you can use them as tools to slide on, pivot on, etc. besides you would be alot happier if you did after the first time that you rolled it. it can be a pain to keep a w/shield in one after a good roll. just my op.

Elegant driving or not, I wouldn't have much of a rig left without an exo. The only drawback I can see is a slight increase in overall weight. As far as looks go, I've never received a negative comment (not that it matters).

Try clearancing the body so that you can have an exo cage that is tight into the body work. ton of work but it would be damn cool and another reason to get to use your sawzall. You might even win over us exo haters and have a new look for all the chicks to dig.

randii we need to play follow the leader sometime. and when i take a line i will probally roll on i wanna here you say "oh watch me i will just do it elagently" :flipoff2: you guys without exos are missing the point. they allow you to push the envelope of sanity and if you miss and roll your rig will not get smashed flat. now if you are the kinda guy who sticks to the center of the trail and does not try the BIG line then of course an exo cage is not for you. funny thing is when i build mine i did it just to be diffrent and was going for the mad max look. :D

I personally don't like Exo's but I've built a few for people. I think that good looking exo's are far and few between.

But I have to agree with Camo on WHY you'd want one.

Just make sure it's not a booger when your done.

Choose your builder wisely!!

You might want to think about a D90 style upper exo, tied into a good internal. It will save the glass (and your head) in a rollover, but 9 times out of 10 won't look like someone blew diarreha on some graph paper and decided that it was "the shit!" A good windshield bar, with a good front bumper design will save alot of sheetmetal, and fenders are easy to replace.:D

But no matter what you do, your rig is currently Badass, and you can be guaranteed, that however it looks when done, you can post a pic of it here, and the majority of posts will be "omfg, that's badass, your so cool, can I be like you when I grow up"

Personally, the only "hi-profile" builder out there right now, that I would trust with an exo design would be Rob. Very few if any of his exo designs look bad.

$.02 from ME!! :D

Well, basically what I am hearing is that everyone with an exo cage started out wanting it for the "looks" factor? What the f*$%# is that? And, yes, I have seen professionally built exo cages get all messed up on a roll. It took 3 winches to fix the POS cuz on the way down a down tube from the top loop caught an outcropping and bent it straight forward over the door. It landed on the passenger side thus preventing the drivers escape.
The trails I wheel on are not like those wide open, smooth stone, few trees type of trails. They have a MAXIMUM width of 70 inches. A single inch more and you will not make it. Period. You can't slide and bounce off of the rocks because the "rocks" are solid granite. This shat ain't smooth! It's pointy and jagged. The only thong that WILL get you through is clean sides, super smooth driving, and a lot of luck. Some nice slim body armor in choice locations does the trick. Now don't get me wrong, I am not some pussy footed crawl freak. I love the skinny pedal just as much as the next guy(hence the dual 60's under a Suzuki), but I know the price and I am willing to pay it.
An exo style cage that I COULD accept, would be a design something similar to the Rover D-90's. Something that flows WITH the lines only to protect the vulnerable windsheild frame. But I would keep this up on top of the truck, not beside. It may limit visibility, but not clearance. You guys KNOW what I am talking about, so stop acting like I'm :smokin:

Damnit, Patman, ya' beat me to the D-90 idea.:beer:

I have an exo because i wanted protection and I am running a Sami pickup cab and I'm 6'4" so I needed the interior space. If done well they don't have to stand out like dog balls. Mine is nice and tight to the body, is painted body colour and doesn't obscure my forward vision.

A cool way of mocking up a cage is to use copper water piping. I know it can be expensive but you can pick it up at scrap yards in short lengths. It is easy to bend so you can muck around with it. To get the heavier look of say a 2" bar just ad some foam padding to get an idea.

on my TJ I had me built a Exo that looks to be like an Olympic Roof rack system. Cept we built it with roll bar stock and tied it into structural membors...... dont even look like cage but it is.

You could do this with urs. In fact I could see an internal/external. where the top of the internal runs out of the roof some ending up looking like a rack like what is on a Nissan Exterra . Most would not know its part of an internal cage till they looked inside and saw that it was bent from one tube.

I'd say do a D90 style exo. It'll suit the truck and not look retarded like some exos do. Have the top of the cab protected by the exo and then run the rest of the cage in the inside for the rear cargo/pass area.

Dunno about your truck but if you bring the a-pillar bars down to just behind the hood opening, then run a tube inside between these two points (behind dash) it should stiffen it up fairly well. Or run the horizontal bar across the windshield root.

I'm not keen on those fender opening bars that attach to the front bumper like the ARB equipped TLCs and such. They look like shite, imo. And what are they protecting? The passengers are the important bit, the front fenders are red shirts (i.e. Star Trek expendable crew members).

Put "normal" rocker guards and real bumpers and there is no need for the rest of the exo stuff except around the passenger compartment where and interior cage would be difficult.

Now if this was a competition rig, internal would be the way to go because it is stronger/stiffer in theory. Easier to cross brace etc. But I don't think that is the type of machine you are building, right? Between the regular roof and properly designed exo over the front seats I think it would be plenty strong.

r@m

Originally posted by Root Moose
I'm not keen on those fender opening bars that attach to the front bumper like the ARB equipped TLCs and such.

Downunder the TLc run hese for protection against trees etc in our high country tracks. The more scenic 4wheeling down here is through alot of trees and the tracks are quite narrow so the TLC guys use them to pivot around them.

randii we need to play follow the leader sometime.
You missed to point, man. I am not saying I can drive better (hell, my truck has been parked even longer than yours! :flipoff2: All I have had to drive is vendor vehicles and rentals! :D )

I *AM* saying that I am pretty bored with watching a buncha poor drivers trash their rigs in pursuit of being called extreme. :rolleyes: Whatever -- I figured out a few years back that I didn't want to 'wheel the absolute extreme... cool if other folks want to, but I 'wheel to get out into nature and have a blast with friends... and sure, I like challenging myself, but fully-vertical hammer-down metal-munching destruction. No thanks for me.... I won't be on the easiest line on every trail, but I won't always be on the hardest one, either.

you guys without exos are missing the point.
Sure, they are handy for pinballing up a trail, but since I try not to roll, I don't need one on my mongrel. And as for what it LOOKS like? I don't like the looks of 'em myself, but clearly, a lotta folks do. To each their own -- but don't delude yourself into thinking that some folks don't start an exo with the sole purpose of 'looking cool.'

BellyDragger asked what I thought. I answered. Get over it.

Randii

Downunder the TLc run hese for protection against trees etc in our high country tracks. The more scenic 4wheeling down here is through alot of trees and the tracks are quite narrow so the TLC guys use them to pivot around them.
Down there, eh? Well up here, raking your rig along the trees is considered by some to be pretty abusive to the trees. YMMV, but if I see somebody purposefully leaning on a tree to force a line that can't otherwise be driven, I'm liable to step up and suggest that maybe he shouldn't be driving that line.

Then when I'm done with that, I'll ask if he's sent in his dues to the wanna-be-Camo club, or if he is having problems spelling his name on the application. :laughing: :flipoff2: :laughing:

Randii

Should have clarified. Eucalypts (the most common tree) are prone to fall over with age and due to bushfire etc and these are the trees i was refering too. it is amazing how many trees fall across and around the tracks.

Hey, Randii!


Two :beer: :beer: for you. You see it like I do, but I probably WILL more than likely be on the hard line, I probably WILL end up rolling, but I probably WILL end up laughing and go home and drink a beer, pick up a hammer, and fix my dents.
Belly Dragger? Do what you think will suit your wheeling style, but just don't do something that only strikes you as "cool looking." Protect the windsheild frame, the rest is all easier to fix, plus you will learn a good lesson in the process.

If you need the space go exo I like exo's but don't over do it. Definately have Bob weld it ...he's the master welder.

Belly, This is my 0.02.

Take it or leave it. here it is.

Your rig has got to be the most unique rig out there. It looks stock. (sortof) and I am sure it will wheel with the best of them.

It will be in a magazine. I am sure of that. Do yourself a favor and pay a few bucks, Have someone build you a super custom inside cage. Since, your rig is super custom. It deserves a custom inside cage.

I personally dont like the look (meaning; on the avarage) of an external cage. To me it looks like it was an after thought of a build up. (Hmmm lets put some tube on the outside to protect me.) See what I mean?

Looks arn't everything. I know. But Strength is. If you can, Go with an inside cage. Sure your gonna dent it. But are you really worried about dents?
How large of a person are you? 6'6" Then you might want an exo. If not, Youll get used to the inside cage. We all do.

My passenger (1800roadside) goes 6'01" and 360 lbs. And he has not said one thing bad about my inside TJ cage. Not one gripe. Nothing.

My vote: spend a few $$$ and inside GET IT !

(hey camo, You should keep the outside cage, It suits you.) :D

My .02

I would go with a mix of Int. and Exo.

A six point Int. with side sliders at window level from the doors back, and windsheild bars that follow the rain gutters...

That way you get the protection on key parts and don't get that "Exo" look..

Sometimes it's not your own driving but that of someone else that causes trail damage. I installed my exo cage right after this photo was taken....

Now here is the same truck one year after putting on the cage. The rig still looks good and only has minor body damage. I have been able to take on trails like I never could without the cage. It's made a huge difference in my driving. My rig would have been crushed like a can if I had done the same things without the cage.

An internal cage may save you life, an external cage may save your trucks cab.

Chris, I have to admit your one great salesman for exo's. Your truck definately looks good.

this is a pic of my exo.. aka rack.. it dont even look like an exo.. but it is actually.. tied into structural member on window hinge.. which on the TJ is a part of the roll cage system (also where Currie ties in their rock cage) and its tied into the roll bar mounts on the rear. Its not as strong as a fullll exo... but it is plenty for adding strenght for lay overs.. rock rubs...etc.

(ps.. ignore the wire frame crap on the top of the exo/rack its a cheep alternative to put stuff up there. It's removable.)

I have some more good pics of Coaches cage check them out here


http://www.angelfire.com/pa4/pghrocksurfer/Wellsville11122001.html

Umm, Chris? What's up with the hay? No spare so you're gonna stuff a ripped sidewall full of it?:D

Here's what ive got done so far...

http://www.yager.net/zukin/new/zuke-exo02.jpg

I'm doing this for a few reasons... There is obviously not alot of interior room in a zuke. The windshield frame is paper thin. I wanted barsa round that BUT didnt want a typical hang is all out exo. I could care less about fenders. (off in this pic) The fenders will still get pounded on a bot but the vital parts will be safe.

I tucked the engn bay "hoop" under the hood so its no visable when its down. And the front grill hides most of the front bars. Ive got small tabs/brackets to hold on the fenders yet allow for easy removal in about 10-15 min. All underhood junk on the fender is now self supported off the cage.

My .02 about what your doing....
I've got some big $$ tied up in the bender/dies tubes and let me tell you i can dink up a tube in about .0002 sec if im not thinking straight. A little off on a bend or notch means a redo... I messed upa 12' piece this weekend... It will get used just not where i planed it... It was starting to rain and i got in a hurry.... If you dont plan to play bender man in the neighborhood pay a shop to do it. Find one that will work with you on your plans and do it the way you want. Plus prolly come out ahead money wise..

As far as which method is heavier / better etc. It all depends on design and exicution. More tube doesnt mean stronger. Once i made the decidion to cut sheetmetal for better tube placement my decisions got a lot easier.... But tube layout can be time consuming,... do you pass a tube here or there, will that miss the brake pedals, or require major dash surgury. What about the air cleaner or exhaust.. .etc... just lots to consider.

Sometimes i think it would be easier to start from scratch vs work around existing frame/ brackets etc....

Good luck
-yag

Go exo man.....Just don't let rokryder or I weld the fawker!! hahaha

For the final welding in the cab..

You can either cut the top of the cab off, do the cage, and weld the top back on (maybe not such a good idea with that shiny paint).. or..

Cut oversize holes in the floor and the cage will drop down through, so you can have a foot or so of room between the top of the cage and the roof.

When it's all done welding, jack the 'cage up to the ceiling, then replace the floor sections.

This would also make a good place to plate top and bottom, then run a mount from the under-floor plate to the frame (assuming you have a frame. :P )

One of those two methods is how the dez' racers do it..

Originally posted by twistedmetal
Umm, Chris? What's up with the hay? No spare so you're gonna stuff a ripped sidewall full of it?:D

It's been a running joke here at the shop that my truck looks like a farm truck with the flat bed. So someone put a couple of hay bails on the back of my rig during the 4Runner Jambo. I removed one bail so I could drive it. I usually leave the spare tire on my trailer.

Cool. I was figuring it might also come in handy when the ol' lady kicks ya out and you gladly spend the night on the trail!

Hey, GloNDark? I actually dig that mini-cage you got goin' on. I wouldn't call it an exo cage though, cuz' it is only protecting the engine and components, not sheetmetal. Either way, it is functional and NOT obtrusive.

you guys are sad :D exo cages are the most beautiful thing you can add to a wheeler after big swampers.. in fact the best looking rig is one w/ NO body =] lol.. build a nice exo cage.. they work and they look good and set a rig off...