I know alot of guys on this board aren't big fans of the V6 swap, but i need some help! I've come across a great deal on a Buick V6/th350 setup and Dana 20 tcase(will the 20 hold up for the task or should i go Dana 300). I have a set of Dana 44's and plan on running 35-38 in tires.

For those of you who have attempted it and done it; what is involved, problems, etc...? Does the frame/body need many mods to mount the motor? I'll be running more mud and trails than rocks with this rig, that's what my other sammy is for :flipoff2:

NO opinions on other setups PLEASE i just want to know about this one!

Thanks

BTW: pics would be great of a swap! I also already did the search thing and came up with one descent post, so please help.:confused:

The 20 should be fine. What 44's are you getting? If you can find 78 waggy axles the Danna 18 would be better because the rear output is 5" lower than the 20. Waggy axles are both offset passenger side.

Good luck, its a big job.:eek:

Hey Weezman

I'm in the middle of the same combo as Mudlite (4.3L to 700r4 and dana 44's, except a dana 300 instead of an 18) and it's a big job! A couple of things to keep in mind.

Exhaust is troublesome on the 4.3 (don't know about the buick) as the manifolds want to dump right into the frame rails. Mudlite solved this problem by mounting his motor lower (to clear the manifolds) but I imagine the buick you have more variety in 'slick fit' headers given this is a popular swap into flatfenders. I 'solved' this problem by making a completely custom frame (major time commitment!)

The shortness of the t350 is a blessing in terms of motor placement and keeping the diffs in relatively stock positions. I would try to keep the motor back as far as possible for COG and to retain the mechanical fan for cooling (still might not be possible as the motor is pretty long -- I'm tubing the front end). Look at Advanced Frame Works for motor mount ideas.

Drive shaft clearance in the front is tricky with an auto tranny as the output is very close to the tranny (could be a little different with a 20 and an 18 --Mudlite?)

Tranny cross members need to be redone.

Exhaust routing can be troublesome as well.

You definetely need a body lift and tunnel work to clear the tranny and t'case.

Lots of work but I think in the end it is worth it!

later,
Dave
aka Shogunator:D

PS. I have pictures some pictures but I doubt they would be helpful for your swap. Maybe I can take some new ones this weekend that will help illustrate some of the things I was talking about.

Thanks for the input fellas:D

Mudlite: I have Scout axles (gottem for a good deal), but the more i read and hear, i'm thinking about going to the waggy's, we'll see...

Dave: Let's see those pics. I'll take anything right now, just to get an idea.

Thanks again
Tommy

I forgot to mention that I'm using scouts aswell. The only reason I would use waggy's (at least the ones with the passenger side drop) would be to accomodate a dana 18 t'case. I can't post pics here though. Uzi normally posts them for me. But I can e-mail them, which would you prefer? It would likely be easier to talk about them if they were posted

let me know,

Dave
aka shogunator

i'll post for you...

Originally posted by Gozuki
i'll post for you....Gozuki (gozuki@hotmail.com)

How goes your 3.0 swap, Gozuki?:confused:

Originally posted by weezman1
I have Scout axles (gottem for a good deal), but the more i read and hear, i'm thinking about going to the waggy's, we'll see...


If it was me I'd stick with the Scout axles. The D18 is not the most common box out there. A D20 or D300 would work and has the "normal" centered rear axle. What else bolts to the TH350? Someone make a Toy adapter? Then you could stack...

If you are worried about the caster of the front axle, take it to a shop to get changed. A shop local to me (Ottawa) can do this for less than $140USD, I'm sure you can find similar down where you are. Hell, if I can find it here I'm sure you can. We normally have fawk all up here in terms of local resources with a clue.

r@m

p.s. if you decide to not go TH350 the 200R4 (4 speed, more modern maybe) should bolt to your engine. You'd need a divorced t-case though, make up a deeper tranny pan too.

Advanced Adapters makes a TH350 to toy t-case adapter. :D

Originally posted by Root Moose
If you are worried about the caster of the front axle, take it to a shop to get changed. A shop local to me (Ottawa) can do this for less than $140USD, .
If you have a couple hours, an angle finder, BFH, grinder and welder, then turn your knuckles yourself, scout people do it all the time, and it is really no big deal. While grinding the welds on the knuckles sounds like a bitch it only takes 15-20 mins a side or less. Once ground, depending on how you want to do it, you can either set up the perches w/ your desired pinion angle,throw 2 jackstands under the d44 so that it carries the weight of the front, hammer your knuckles till the angle finder on top reads your desired caster. Then just blaze em upp. It also makes things alot easier if you hammer off the knuckles first, they turn easier whn u put em back on, and you can set them how u want em, hammer back on, and u are good to go. The fixture method is over rated IMHO, but if you want to avoid the PITA, then i guess having someone do it is worthwhile. There are some good write ups on this alot of places .
HTH

The swap is at a complete standstill till I get another way to work. I'm collecting parts and figuring angles etc.... Really just chafing at the bit... Sucks having new toys and not being able to play with them...:(

Dave,

If you can get those pics posted on here and explain them better, than do it. Whatever works for you.:D

To everyone else,

I'm going to stick with the Scout Dana 44's. Thanks for the extra tidbits. I've looked around town here, but the one place that does turn the knuckles wants waaaay too much, so i think i'll tackle it myself.

Thanks again

BTW: what's a good caster and pinion angle to set them at? Like i said i'm going to be running anywhere from a 35-38" tire.

Originally posted by weezman1
BTW: what's a good caster and pinion angle to set them at? Like i said i'm going to be running anywhere from a 35-38" tire.

I don't have numbers handy but check out Larry Soo's (lars) article on adapting the Scouts to his YJ. It is over at bc4x4.com. It might have some insights - I thknk he runs 35s.

If it was me, Get the knuckles loose, set them to what you think you'll need and then just tack weld into postition until the truck is done. Once you are happy with the angles for your prop shaft and such with full wieght on the truck, then weld solid for good.

Keep in mind that a double u-joint versus double carden prop shaft needs different pinion angles which in turn means different settings for your knuckles.

JAT

HTH

r@m

Thanks for the offer Gozuki...

I'll take some pics on the weekend then send them your way for posting.

I agree with ROOT, set your pinion first then determine what castor you need. Scouts used 0* (after teh pinion angel was set) castor but I'm not sure that is the best set up as it steers pretty heavy. I'm probably going to give it 1-2* just for better steering response but not too much compromise in the stability department.

Dave
aka Shogunator

Originally posted by dumb

I agree with ROOT, set your pinion first then determine what castor you need. Scouts used 0* (after teh pinion angel was set) castor but I'm not sure that is the best set up as it steers pretty heavy. I'm probably going to give it 1-2* just for better steering response but not too much compromise in the stability department.

Yep, you want some caster otherwise the truck will also wander at highway speeds (you didn't say if this was trail only or not).

Don't quote me but I think lars set his to 4 degrees.

r@m

Yes the 18's are hard to come by, but they are out there. There are also options for the 18, like the 3 to 1 . You can also put the guts of an 18 into a 20. So were there is a will, there is a way.

Advantages of an 18 in a V6 conversion is the hieght required. having a drop rear output is important in the mix. You won't have a very long rear shaft to begin with , and 5" is huge over 2 feet.
Your angles will be very very bad. Unless you are running a hi-pinion 44.

The other good thing is both diffs are offset. If your front passes, so will your rear. The 20 is centered , and you tend to get hung up on it more with a centered 44.

If it is a matter of availability. Build one.

All you need for an 18:

Danna 20 case
Terra 3:1 gears
18 rebuild kit
bearings

Hey Mud,
Are you running 3:1's in your case? If so, is it enough? I'm running 4.88's and probably a 4:1 case (d300) but I won't be right away. Just wondering...
thanks,

Dave
aka Shogunator

Here we go my first post!!!

I have corrected caster on Scout axles and plan to stuff them into a v6 converted Zuk I just "aquired" .(originally for a Jeep)
The conversion is only 1/2 done but the engine and 700r4 are in .
I plan to stretch the frame 5" front and 4" in the rear.
Oh ya ...the caster is very easy to fix .
Just grind the knuckle weld (not the tube) until a small crack appears...
Then smack the knuckle end and it will rotate ...
Level your spring perch and set it 6-8 degrees for SOA.
Then reweld it and go .
There is more to it than that but if you can't figure out the rest get someone else to do it .
I want to see a pic of someones exhaust with a 4.3l...Mudlite??
Anybody ???

I don't know about the 3.8 but I am in the middle of a 4.3 SJ410 swap right now. Using a 200r4 it does not need a body lift. Just removed the catylytic heat shield and cut the corner out of the pass. side trans tunnel. The headers are a trick - 1979 GM manifolds . I think the driver side is ok but the pass side need to be machined down and a v shaped pipe be pressed/welded in to clear the motor mount. You may be able to build your own headers w/ kit from summit?:confused: