Help me design my new shop.

[StinkBug]

I'm quickly running out of space in my current 924sq. ft. shop and the lease is up in a few months. I really need something a lot bigger, but I simply cant afford the cost of renting a bigger shop. Plus Renting sucks. So now I have a new plan. I'm currently searching for a chunk of land on which to build my new home. I'm really liking the looks and price of the prefab steel buildings and I've got a lot of friends/relatives that are in construction to help get the thing built. Now I've just gotta figure out how much building I need.

Right now I've got roughly 750sq ft of actual shop space, the rest is office and bathroom. To make it worse the layout of the space really only makes it possible to work on 2 vehicles and you can only fit 3 inside if you can spin the middle one sideways which then shuts down all movement in the shop. I'd like to have an open shop space that's at least 3-4 times the size, plus a couple small work rooms. A clean room for doing gears and such, possibly make this one big enough to be a paint booth as well. Next to that would be a dirty room for grinding and cutting which seem to be the worst offenders in my current shop. I'll also need a small bathroom.

To make things even better I also wanna build a 1 bedroom apartment either above the clean/dirty rooms or alongside them. Needs to have a decent size living room and kitchette, and a small bedroom.

The big problem I have right now is I dont know that much about steel buildings. I was checkin out http://www.steelbuilding.com/ last night and they have a sweet online design deal, but the building is divided up into bays. does that mean there are actual divisions in the building or thats just where the support beams are? Anyone have an idea how big a building I'm lookin at or done anything similar? Any tips on setting up a building like this?

This is the style building I'm looking at
http://www.steelbuilding.com/buildings/bin/sbdc4831_01-2.jpg


Thanks
Dallas

[ironpig70]

my dad had similar plans and was looking at a 30 x 80. and he would make bays every 20' so you'd have 4 bays of 20 x 30 and there would be no walls between them so you could go bigger or smaller if you wished. the end bay would be walled off for a clean room/paint booth. for the larger area he'd start at one end with the dirtiest stuff ie lathe/mill stuff and then get cleaner as you get towards the other end.

[HomeGrown]

here is my shop buildup that i bought from steelbuildings.com
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394008


later tj

[ZukIzzy]

I'm quickly running out of space in my current 924sq. ft. shop and the lease is up in a few months. I really need something a lot bigger, but I simply cant afford the cost of renting a bigger shop. Plus Renting sucks. So now I have a new plan. I'm currently searching for a chunk of land on which to build my new home. I'm really liking the looks and price of the prefab steel buildings and I've got a lot of friends/relatives that are in construction to help get the thing built. Now I've just gotta figure out how much building I need.

Right now I've got roughly 750sq ft of actual shop space, the rest is office and bathroom. To make it worse the layout of the space really only makes it possible to work on 2 vehicles and you can only fit 3 inside if you can spin the middle one sideways which then shuts down all movement in the shop. I'd like to have an open shop space that's at least 3-4 times the size, plus a couple small work rooms. A clean room for doing gears and such, possibly make this one big enough to be a paint booth as well. Next to that would be a dirty room for grinding and cutting which seem to be the worst offenders in my current shop. I'll also need a small bathroom.

To make things even better I also wanna build a 1 bedroom apartment either above the clean/dirty rooms or alongside them. Needs to have a decent size living room and kitchette, and a small bedroom.

The big problem I have right now is I dont know that much about steel buildings. I was checkin out http://www.steelbuilding.com/ last night and they have a sweet online design deal, but the building is divided up into bays. does that mean there are actual divisions in the building or thats just where the support beams are? Anyone have an idea how big a building I'm lookin at or done anything similar? Any tips on setting up a building like this?

This is the style building I'm looking at
http://www.steelbuilding.com/buildings/bin/sbdc4831_01-2.jpg


Thanks
Dallas

Hey Dallas
did you ever go up to Danny Grimes place? I have a steel building just like that and if I had my way it would be 80 feet long instead of 40. the bays are just the spaces between the moment frames. If you get a well designed one the moment legs are with in the purlin space so it really dosen't intrude into the work space.

You are gonna need a 18 to 20 foot eve to do 2 story, you could do it with less but will sacrifice some head room.

Steel is probly the cheapest way to go and they work well. start with 40 X 60 and go bigger from there. they are just a big erector set to assemble and I know you can get a bunch of guys to help you set it up. Hell I would donate a weekend.

let me know if you need any help one of my neighbors build them but he is high $$$$$.

Wayne

[StinkBug]

well I spent all day doin research and designing a building and from the looks of things this may actually be doable. Currently I'm lookin at a 40x80x18 with roll up doors on 3 sides, 2 12x10s and 1 16x14. Did some searching and found some pieces of land with potential, but wont find out more until tomorrow.

Dallas

[Pook]

You guys seem to get steel buildings cheaper down there, so I don't know if it'd be the same for you but am just finishing building a wood frame shop 24x52 with 12' cielings for half the price in materials compared to what I got quoted for steel building. took a bit longer for it to get built but when I'm done, I'll have a completed insulated double layered drywalled shop, real thick concrete slab, and all my electrical for what the steel building (uninsulated) and slab was going to cost.


Oh yeah take your budgeted costs and add at least 25 %

[StinkBug]

well you are in canadia :flipoff2: The quote I got on the building with all the roll ups, 3 walk in doors, a few windows, 6 skylights, and full insulation was $32k.

Dallas

[StinkBug]

Well I never did build a new shop partially because I was concentrating on WERock Competition, and partially because the real estate market wasn't exactly favorable at the time. Things have changed, and now I'm searching for land again, so now I'm revisiting the idea of building a new shop. I'm still thinking a 40x80 would be a good size, but I'd like to explore different options on construction, and layout. Anyone have any ideas or examples of how you've done your shop?

[EMG7895]

If i were building a shop, I'd build the normal large abys for lifts and general wrenching, but what I would do differently would have a seperate addition with a much lower roof to house the office, bathroom, and the machine shop type equipment. Less space to heat and leaves the shop floor open. Maybe I would do one bay with a loft over it for storage.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

I've been toying with design ideas for some time, and here are some rough ideas that I've come up with.

You could use either of these or some combination of the two. I didn't draw it yet, but I always figured on putting a half-bath in one corner of the "clean room" with a full-bath in the apartment above.

The area to the top left is kind of the general fab/assembly/work area with countertop running down the two sides. The darker lines are the door openings.

Tube storage would be along the wall parrallel to the countertop that divides the work area from the clean room.

The semi-circle represents the swing radius of a piece of tubing sticking 10' out of the bender and being bent 180*.

I could keep adding details, but I'll hold off until you tell me if you like what you see so far. If you do, I'll continue to add details/options. I could do this all day :D

Ary

PS/Edit I suppose I should add that this is a 40x80 shop layout and everything is relatively to scale. The "chassis table" and 2-post lift areas are ~15x7 for reference.

I figure you should be able to fit at least 5(probably more like 6 or 7) vehicles in the shop assuming one goes in/on the lift.

[StinkBug]

Man I really gotta reload autocad onto my computer. I spent a ton of time brainstorming different layouts back in the day, and now you've got my mind going again.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Man I really gotta reload autocad onto my computer. I spent a ton of time brainstorming different layouts back in the day, and now you've got my mind going again.

Autocad, HA, I did that in PAINT!! :D :laughing:

[StinkBug]

Yeah, well I just happen to have an AA in architectural drafting, and worked as a draftsman for a couple years. Trying to draw anything to scale in paint would make my mind explode, lol. I actually found my old SUPER rough drawings, and just spent an hour or so sketching up something a little more detailed. Right now I'm looking at doing it all on one level, with storage above the apt. I've got a 2 bedroom, one big bath, with big living room. Another small bath in the shop and small clean/dirty rooms. I dont think I really need to make the clean/dirty rooms very large because generally my dirtiest stuff is grinding and shaping brackets, which doesn't take up much space, it just throws crap everywhere. For clean stuff I'm usually tearing down t-cases, trannys, motors, etc. None of which requires a huge room. Most of the time the clean room wont be used at all, so I dont wanna waste too much space with it.

Oh, and I also designed in a 10'x7' storage room to keep my motorcycles in :flipoff2: I could care less if my truck and rig sit outside in the rain, but my bikes have to be inside, and they are NOT gonna be in the shop getting covered in metal dust.

[StinkBug]

Here's tonights quick sketch. Like your drawing I did the half circle for the bender, but also added a smaller one for the handle swing since my bender is still manually operated.

Just ran the numbers. In this drawing the shop space comes out to 2070sq. ft. and the clean and dirty rooms add another 144, for a total of just over 2200sqft of work space. Currently I'm in a space that's under 800 and very poorly laid out for working on vehicles.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

That looks great!

I should have added the "sweep" for the bender handle as well, but I was just being lazy. Mine is still manual too.

I plan to build something like this in the next 3 years, so please keep posting your ideas.

[rotozuk]

Interesting, but I think you can do better!

I have to say that I like the idea of the apartment being on the second floor. But with the main entrance via a deck from outside. You could park the truck or motorhome under the deck! That will give you a LOT more space on the first floor. Heck, if you don't need that extra space, then rent it out for a little income. But if you need the space later on, you already have it.

Now make me a new drawing! :)

[StinkBug]

I'll work on other drawings later. The problem with doing a second floor is it makes the building itself more expensive, and vastly complicates the construction. You also will need a certain amount of support on the first floor, which will take away from the space downstairs anyways. Right now I'm thinking of doing everything on one level, but with a high enough roof to have a lot of storage above the apartment. A lot of what I can do depends on the lot I end up buying though. This drawing could be a total waste of time if the land doesn't lend itself to this style of building.

[Jeepermat]

Not really sure what the clean room would accomplish, if you are anything like me then shit would end up just being stored in both the clean and dirty rooms.
I would rather have one end of the shop for dirty stuff, and the other for clean stuff.

[Todd W]

Your living room has a lot of doors in it.. makes it hard to have a nice couch and TV area. Something I always looked at when renting places.

Also I would skip skylights for sure. I have 2 in my current house and they zap the heat like crazy... I`m sure in summer my house will be warm from the sun beaming in on them too. Another thing I noticed is the entrance area of bedroom#2 has a lot of wasted space. Maybe look at re-aligning the walls and utilizing some space for the kitchen or re-doing some to make use of all the space. Also I would put the clean room door on the other side of the room, and also put the dirty room door there too this way you have a corner to put shit still - dirty room door movement not so important.

[StinkBug]

Your living room has a lot of doors in it.. makes it hard to have a nice couch and TV area. Something I always looked at when renting places.

Also I would skip skylights for sure. I have 2 in my current house and they zap the heat like crazy... I`m sure in summer my house will be warm from the sun beaming in on them too. Another thing I noticed is the entrance area of bedroom#2 has a lot of wasted space. Maybe look at re-aligning the walls and utilizing some space for the kitchen or re-doing some to make use of all the space. Also I would put the clean room door on the other side of the room, and also put the dirty room door there too this way you have a corner to put shit still - dirty room door movement not so important.


You bring up some good points, and some I've already considered myself. Yep, living room has a lot of doors, it's the center of everything, and not a lot of ways around it. There is one nice TV/couch area against the front wall though.

There wont be skylights in the apt. there will be some in the shop for light. It doesn't get all that cold here.

Originally bedroom 2 was just gonna be rectangular, but the kitchen layout kinda forced that entry. I'm planning on working a closet into that area as well. Really, I added space to the room, even if it's not super useful space. Remember this is just a brainstorm. I dont even know if the building is gonna be in this shape yet. Gotta get the land first to be sure.

The door locations for the clean and dirty rooms are very much on purpose. I plan on doing the majority of my grinding in the dirty room, so I want the door as close to the work area as possible. The clean room I want to stay clean, so I want the door as far out of the way as possible. As for corners to stick shit, I'm actually trying to avoid them. They just collect junk that really should be either put away or thrown away. This is a big problem with my current shop. For storage of things that dont need to be readily accessible I plan on using the space above the apartment.

[Jeepermat]

The door locations for the clean and dirty rooms are very much on purpose. I plan on doing the majority of my grinding in the dirty room, so I want the door as close to the work area as possible. The clean room I want to stay clean, so I want the door as far out of the way as possible. As for corners to stick shit, I'm actually trying to avoid them. They just collect junk that really should be either put away or thrown away. This is a big problem with my current shop. For storage of things that dont need to be readily accessible I plan on using the space above the apartment.


Most of my grinding is done on frames or axles, so if it was my shop I dont think I would ever drag something that big into a room to grind on it. I like the idea, just dont know if it would be practical.
Same with the clean room, it would be awesome for engine builds, tranny and t case builds, but most of the time I am setting up gears in axles, so it would be a bitch to drag that in there.
Maybe get some big ass doors for the entrance?

[StinkBug]

Most of my grinding is done on frames or axles, so if it was my shop I dont think I would ever drag something that big into a room to grind on it. I like the idea, just dont know if it would be practical.
Same with the clean room, it would be awesome for engine builds, tranny and t case builds, but most of the time I am setting up gears in axles, so it would be a bitch to drag that in there.
Maybe get some big ass doors for the entrance?


You have a point with some of the big stuff, but in my case there are a LOT of small things that i do a lot that make a big mess. Cutting and shaping tabs and brackets is the most common. I go through a lot of 4.5" cutting wheels and sanding disks. There's always gonna be big stuff that just has to be done in place, but if I can keep the major offenders in a small easy to clean room I'll be pretty happy. The clean room wont be used much, but I've had many many times when it would have been nice to have. Next week I'll be rebuilding a motorcycle motor. I have to clean my entire shop before starting on it to ensure no metal dust gets into it.


Here's last nights tweak to the design. Not many changes, but I put in some furniture and vehicles to try and figure out how much space I really have. The vehicles are approximately the size of a Pro-Mod competition buggy. 103" wheelbase, 80" wide, 37" tires.

I'm also having lunch with the architect I used to work for next week. He's amazing when it comes to layout and ideas, so I'm sure we'll have something very different after that meeting.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Dallas, I think an important question to ask is what is the intended "lifespan" of this setup. In other words, do you plan on living in the apartment for 5 years, 10 years, indefinitely? If this is only a short term arrangement(5-10 years max), I would suggest developing the interior space with an eye to the future. I.e. an arrangement that is easily adaptable to an office setup. Admittedly, what you have would not make a terrible office(perhaps you're already thinking about this), but I would think a kitchen slightly more tucked away from view when you walk in would lend itself to office use much more easily.

I ask this, because the resale of a building such as you've drawn may not be very high, due to a low number of people who would be interested in such a setup; however, as an office/shop the prospective market widens greatly.

Just some food for thought.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

One more thing, have you considered the future expansion into the attic space for a second floor? You may not want/need it now, but if you position things so that you can build a second floor over the apartment that would be centered under the tallest section of the roof, you may add value rather cheaply. I know you intend to utilize this space for storage, and you could continue to do so out under the eaves where ceiling height is limited. BTW, what do you intend to store in these areas? Just curious.

[Jeepermat]

Dallas, I think an important question to ask is what is the intended "lifespan" of this setup. In other words, do you plan on living in the apartment for 5 years, 10 years, indefinitely? If this is only a short term arrangement(5-10 years max), I would suggest developing the interior space with an eye to the future. I.e. an arrangement that is easily adaptable to an office setup. Admittedly, what you have would not make a terrible office(perhaps you're already thinking about this), but I would think a kitchen slightly more tucked away from view when you walk in would lend itself to office use much more easily.

I ask this, because the resale of a building such as you've drawn may not be very high, due to a low number of people who would be interested in such a setup; however, as an office/shop the prospective market widens greatly.

Just some food for thought.

I think that is a really good point, I have been really considering doing a shop/apartment build but I think it would hurt the value of the building.

[StinkBug]

Some good points there. As for how long I'll be living there.....I'd put it under indefinite. Probably not forever, but long enough that I'd rather build it as a living space, with less thought on offices. Besides, partition walls are SUPER easy to add. It would take only a few days to rip out the kitchen and reconfigure the main room. As for second story....it all depends on how tall the building ends up being. If possible I'd love to leave the option for building up. Thats something that will have to be considered later though.

As for what's being stored, I have a lot of spare parts around. It's surprising how much stuff you end up collecting over time when you're building vehicles. At times I've had 3-4 spare engines, multiple sets of axles, misc doors, hoods, fenders, etc. I've gotten rid of a lot of it, but you still tend to collect a lot of stuff that's too valuable to throw away, but isn't really needed right now.

Here are a couple other floorplans I've worked up. They are 2 different versions of one plan really. This layout ends up losing a slight amount of shop footage, but I think it's a much more functional layout overall.

[randii]

For quickest workable space, put up a tall free-span steel building, and stick-build your lodging free-standing on the inside, not dependent on the steel building. This gets you storage over the living space, and the ability to modularly build the first story at your discretion (hell, if you are doing it inside, you might even be able to bypass some of the crazy building restrictions down there, but that would hose your resale), and still allow you to build out the second floor when the money presents, or if you knock up some Red Bull groupie (a StinkDate?) and need a place for all the StinkBabies. :p Crash-room for your StinkFriend from SacStinkto would be handy, as well. If I ever need to change out a tranny, yours is the driveway I'll be dribbling petroleum products onto. :flipoff2:

Randii

[StinkBug]

LOL, Randii. That construction technique is pretty much what I'm planning. I really wanna go the steel building route, but that might depend on the location of the land. I dont mind living in an industrial looking building, but if I have neighbors, I dont wanna stick out like a sore thumb either.

[randii]

Oh, and one of the ideas that I have planned but not yet tried is a heavy plastic curtain separating the dirtiest part of the shop from the cleaner areas, with a powerful vent fan exhausting the curtained-off area. Negative pressure on the dirty zone should help keep dirt from spilling into the cleaner areas.

Sadly, right now, my whole damn shop is a dirty area, and I'm getting pretty frustrated about how bad it has gotten. If my raise comes through at work, I'm thinking about hiring a crew and getting on top of it... Lord knows I'm too lazy to do it myself.

Anyhow -- I like the cleanroom idea for engine assembly and the like, but don't think a small dirt-room is gonna cut it.

BTW, since you are designing a shop, I recommend you take a few cheese pizzas and a case of redbull, and plow through this site: http://www.garagejournal.com/
...lots of good ideas, from every possible budget.

Randii

[Etcetera]

If you have plans for a Mrs. Stinkbug I'd locate the compressor as far from the living area as possible. Just stick it in the opposite corner or outside with a small enclosure. I might also try and put the master bed in the corner to help insulate from the noise if you are working late and she has a headache and wants to lay down. Make sure you seal the dirty room really well so dust doesn't migrate into the living space.

If funds and land space allow, I'd build it 1/3 longer and put the living space on one end shop on the other, 25% living, 75% shop. Might be nice to put the dirty and clean rooms on the other end.

Looks good, I'd love to live in something like that, but It'd be hard to convince my better half.

[StinkBug]

Right now there's no one of the female persuasion to worry about. The second bedroom may actually get rented out to help with monthly bills, so I put it as far from noise as possible. Sometimes I like to work at night, so I figured I'd try to keep the roommate happy if there is one. If someone special comes along.....well I think it'll be a heck of a girl that'd live in a place like this. If she's that awesome, I'm sure she wont mind using the spare bedroom when she has a headache :)