Hey all

I have a decent 40X60 steel shop with a lift, a jd2 model 3, welders, grinders, drill press, tubing notchers blah blah blah.. some guys have asked to use the shop cause they don't have the tools at their place and have offered to pay for the time, consumables and ect. I have lots of tube and steel and that is easy to figure if it gets used but what is a fair to both of us rate per hour? have any of you done it and how did it go???

thanks for your input
wayne

I'd say that gets to be a pretty tricky question. Search around a bit, there is a thread of all the reasons why not to let your friends work in your shop. Everything from broken/lost tools to supplies getting used and not replaced to having to deal with someone else's junk sitting there for weeks (months?) keeping you from working on your stuff.

Plus, it is pretty hard to quantify some things like electric - man, I know I was there for two hours but I only like did twenty minutes of welding...

Also, consider whether you're looking to make some money, help offset the cost of having the shop, or just take in some beer money.

For me, it would all depend on the friends and what was being done. Of the people I know, there are some I'd help out for cost of materials and a few bucks while others I wouldn't let near my shop even if they were paying me $100 an hour plus materials...

I'd say that gets to be a pretty tricky question. Search around a bit, there is a thread of all the reasons why not to let your friends work in your shop. Everything from broken/lost tools to supplies getting used and not replaced to having to deal with someone else's junk sitting there for weeks (months?) keeping you from working on your stuff.

Plus, it is pretty hard to quantify some things like electric - man, I know I was there for two hours but I only like did twenty minutes of welding...

Also, consider whether you're looking to make some money, help offset the cost of having the shop, or just take in some beer money.

For me, it would all depend on the friends and what was being done. Of the people I know, there are some I'd help out for cost of materials and a few bucks while others I wouldn't let near my shop even if they were paying me $100 an hour plus materials...

I know all about the freinds and tools thing. All these guys are freinds just not the best of buds that you would share almost anything with. To their credit they want to pay something for the time knowing that it does cost and to show a little thanks. I am not looking to make $ just to offset the costs of plasma consumables. welding gass,wire rods. electricity...... the stuff that is hard to measure.

thanks for the input

Wayne

i would say that 20 - 30 bucks an hour is a reasonable rate.... covers most of the stuff like Gas, electric (compressor cost) plasma ect..... plus it would help me as the guy working think about how much work im actually doin at your shop v/s my own garage....

i would say that 20 - 30 bucks an hour is a reasonable rate..
For $30 an hour you could go fishing and pay somebody else to do all the work :flipoff2:

all they have to do is respect you. if they full know that you are more than ready and willing to drag their shit out right off the jackstands and pull it to somewhere in your yard if they leave it there when you need the space then you are probably going to be ok, and they wont leave it there!

for electricity you can count how many kilowatts they use on the side of the building, just ask them to keep an honest record. only a sleaze would lie about this and you will figure it out anyways when your bill goes up x amount of dollars and you only took in half of that. tools are probalby the hardest thing, they tend to not get put back in their proper spots.

Instead of trying to do it hourly, it might be easier to figure it out by what they want to use your shop for. Do they just want to use the hoist to bolt on a lift kit or they going to be using all your fab equipment and using up materials to do whatever. Might be a simpiler way of going about it.

i wouldn't do it at all. The issue is what happens when they dont put a pin all the way in on your bender and bend the arms, or lose a socket, or overheat your welder.... or brake your lift... Just too much crap to worry about...

Don't a lot of colleges and Army bases have a "hobby shop" where you can pull your beater in and wrench on it using the supplied tools and equipment?

What's the going rate for that level of service? Sounds like a start.

DO be careful about your insurance and such, though.

If you're "renting/leasing" shop space, it might no longer be your "garage" but a "place of business"..

i wouldn't do it at all. The issue is what happens when they dont put a pin all the way in on your bender and bend the arms, or lose a socket, or overheat your welder.... or brake your lift... Just too much crap to worry about...


all good points and all stuff I have done myself. I know it is easier to do it that way but you want to help a guy out who has helped you if possible we will draw up an agreement before any work is done probly through an lawyer I know and who wheels too:D

I don't have a bunch of high dollar tools that I intend to lend but it is the bender and lift that most guys don't have. pretty hard to break those for a guy who can fab.

thanks for the input.

wayne

Don't a lot of colleges and Army bases have a "hobby shop" where you can pull your beater in and wrench on it using the supplied tools and equipment?

What's the going rate for that level of service? Sounds like a start.

DO be careful about your insurance and such, though.


at the military bases it was stupid cheap to rent the spaces. something like $15/day or something like that.

this was about 10 years ago though.

at the military bases it was stupid cheap to rent the spaces. something like $15/day or something like that.

this was about 10 years ago though.

It is still stupid crazy cheap to use the hobby shop.....15 bucks a day for the one on base over here.

Im kinda partial to blending a couple ideas assuming these are buds were talking about.

Cost of materials, say $15-20/day and a "you break it you bought it" comment added. I might add as one other mentioned (sorta) find out roughly how long they want to use the shop for and hold them to it. Nothin' like finding out about the "perpetual project" after its moved in and taken up residence in the middle of the floor...

D.

Im kinda partial to blending a couple ideas assuming these are buds were talking about.

Cost of materials, say $15-20/day and a "you break it you bought it" comment added. I might add as one other mentioned (sorta) find out roughly how long they want to use the shop for and hold them to it. Nothin' like finding out about the "perpetual project" after its moved in and taken up residence in the middle of the floor...

D.


that is pretty much where we are with it and as far as the perpetual project... I have a fork lift and a skip loader I can get moved what ever I need to:D but yes we did talk about the duration and that we had to agree befor the imobility stage was reached. plus the perpetual projects are all mine they would not have room to add another.:p

thanks
Wayne

For $30 an hour you could go fishing and pay somebody else to do all the work :flipoff2:

I disagree. Most general repair shops are gonna start at least $60/hr, and that's on the cheap side for privately owned shops. Dealerships, much more. Fab shops more too, and machine shops probably have a $60 minimum just for them to touch your stuff, even if it's 5 minutes of work.

I think somewhere in the $20-30 range is not unrealistic. If they don't like it, tell 'em they can go buy their own $1200 welder and $2k plasma, etc.

If you are friends with these people, and just worried about consumables and stuff like that then it shouldn't be this tuff. Electricity is cheap unless they are welding, with the AC on, and everything else in the shop on. Ask for a little help with it(Beer in my case). Consumables, big deal, let them buy their own. When I use someones bender it typically means I need the sawsall and a grinder too. I bring a pack of blade and flap disks. I leave what is left over when I am done. Welding wire and gas is more difficult, but people that use mine will give me money for gas and bring their own wire and tips, or give me some money to buy more. If storage is a concern, that is where you charge money. Once again, this is if they are truely friends. Friends don't make money off one another unless it is a business. I wouldn't give someone free access to all my stuff for extended periods of time, but I would give them that kind of access for money either. Install a lift, bend a cage, make a stinger no problem. leave the rig in my shop space, not a chance.

personally, i don't like talking cash with buddies, so instead my rule in the shop is, you help me with my projects and i'll help you with yours. so in the end i get free labour on my projects and all it costs me is consumables/electricity/other little shop things.

tools aren't a big deal. all my hand tools are craftsman with very few matco blended in. it's all warrantied for life if it gets broken.

as for the bigger tool like the bender and whatnot, i don't let anybody use it without me being there so it's just as much my fault if something goes wrong.

you can't underestimate the value of having a helping hand around the shop. it's worth working on somebody else's junk for the exchange.

oh and finally, since my shop can only handle one project at a time, i don't let projects idle in the shop. i don't mind long projects, but if you run out of cash and need to let the project idle you better figure out how to remove it and store it elsewhere. i've had to enforce this a few times because it's not unusual to see a project blow right through the planned buget by a factor of 3 or 4. a good engine hoist will lift just about anything onto a trailer to carry it away.

no money = no insurance issues & no feelings of being ripped off by anyone.

I copied (and didn't bother to credit) the author of a sentiment from the post mentioned in the first reply. It'll follow my ramblings...

My $.02 - I do not let people leave their junk in my buildings/ lawn/ etc. I have a bunch of barns that I rent out to store boats, sleds, cars, etc, so if somebody asks to leave something there, I immediately tell them I get $2/ LF/ mo (about half a storage unit anyway...) Thus, it's never an issue. I've traded with friends and neighbors (I'll keep the Mustang over the winter, you plow my driveway...)

Electricity is paid for in traded-beer, though I sometimes have to push the issue to actually get beer to show up. I do not lend anything with a gas engine - it costs too much to fix once I get it back, if it comes back without me having to go somewhere and retrieve it, which really chaps my ass. My tools are open use, so long as they are clean and put back. Consumables cost me, but I usually work it out in trade (sure, you can buzz that trailer together, but you're going to have to help my carry this big snowblower/ stack of wood/ truck bed/ whatever across the yard.)

Generally speaking (I do make the occassional exception if I'm working out of town for an extended period) the only person allowed there when I'm not there is my dad. If this priviledge is abused, it is removed.

Now then, pasted from a different thread, I think there's some valid points anyway...

<quote>
(stolen from Pirate4x4)
My way...

1-I will charge you $40 and hour...period
2-I will charge you $100, mininum...period
3-You cannot take anything of mine with you...period
4-You cannot bring strangers to my shop..period
5-I will charge you $35 minimun to weld anything
6-Yes, I mark up parts, deal with it. My gas, my time, my CC interest
7-Don't try to pet my dog, he will bite you if I want him to
8-Don't haggle me over prices, if it's too much, go elsewhere
9-I do not teach others how to do things.
10-The power company, mortgage broker, banks and every other lender I have do not care if I had a slow month, I still have to pay for services rendered. So do you, period.
11-Leave a message if we do not pick up, guess what, we're too busy to answer. We will call you back.

Myself and my business partner have keys, nobody else. Nobody else is to be anywhere near my shop unless one of us is there. I will assume you are a vandal and treat you as one if you are there.

I have few problems with uninvited guests or "tirekickers" coming around. Just like everyone else has said, true friends respect your time and monetary investments and understand that you cannot stop the world to get them out of a jam, even though you would...

<end quote>

Good luck.

-Nate

no money doesn't mean no insurance required .... anyone could close your business with what may seem like a minor accident leading to a law suit... check with your ins co. first...

i wouldn't do it at all. The issue is what happens when they dont put a pin all the way in on your bender and bend the arms, or lose a socket, or overheat your welder.... or brake your lift... Just too much crap to worry about...

I would agree with this wholeheartedly.

I have lent/rented space to friends in my old shop and that friendship, as well as my shop was trashed when the job was done.

My rules now are, Doors closed to all because, having been burned before I simply feel that I can't trust anyone to take care of my tools and the shop. If you don't respect what I have, then you don't respect me.

After finding my new wire brush that I bought for aluminum only missing, only to find it next to the bbq grill, my wife doesn't even have access to the shop anymore. :smokin:

I have also found that most times, people who want access to the tools you have, don't necessarily posess the 'know how' or experience to use them safely and properly so that they don't hurt themselves or trash the surroundings.

I have had more than one screwdriver trashed being used as a chisel, the brand new bottle of argon drained because someone didn't turn the gas back off, and the opening of the fridge in the shop only to find an empty cardboard beer carrier.

Nowadays, if the bottle of argon is out, there's no beer in the fridge, or the wooden screwdriver handle is broken..

I KNOW WHO DID IT.

Save yourself the hassles.. If you want to make some $$ with your shop, do it with your own hands, time, and experience.

You'll sleep better at night. I know I do.

You've got a bender and plasma and stuff? Damn dude, I'll be your new best friend!:grinpimp:

You've got a bender and plasma and stuff? Damn dude, I'll be your new best friend!:grinpimp:


It will cost you $60 per hour:D

I work on lots of my freinds stuff with them for just help on my stuff. this is a bit different but I do appreciate the comments and warnings from all.

Wayne

Add your monthly overhead shop expenses; gas, light, rent..etc. Divide this number by the amount of hours per month your shop will be open for 'business'. This is your break even amount. Mark this number up by how much profit (if any) you want to make. Make them bring their own raw materials and consumables (flap discs, sanding wheels, weld rods, gas nozzles).

This is a very simplified way of doing it but it doesn't take into account many things. If these guys are not your buddies then charge at least $40 per hour. If they don't like it then tell them to take a hike and fix their junk in the street. Any cheaper then your basic shop rate means your paying for these guys to work on their rig!

I would't do it unless they were my buddies that I've known for a while. Will they clean up their mess every day? You sure? Will you be there every hour that they are working on their junk? You going to keep the shop open late at night because they need to finish their project before saturday? Do they know just how much green that welder took out of your wallet?
Your shop, your rules!

For every bad story, there is a good one.

I had this fella call meout of the blue, sounding like he had no idea what he was doing. I told him to bring his truck up to the shop and I'd hook up the computer and let him know what I thought it needed. The cost was $70.00.

I hooked up the computer and told him he had no oxygen sensor signal to the ECU., pay me the $70.00...

He proceeded to help me swap the shocks on a client's truck...

Next thing i know, he's in my shop making some nifty shock mounts, using my welder, etc.

A week later, he shows up with his MIG and leaves it at my shop...

Then he starts just showing up when he had time ( he lives two hours away).

then, we start wheeling together.

Then we start fabbing together.

Then he pays me the better part of a grand to do some major mods to his truck...

I shut down my shop to take a super-cool job, he opens a shop...

I get fired from super-cool job...

Guess who hires me to be his VP of Operations for his shop?

Sometimes, the "Hangers-on" can turn out to be VERY good friend and hopefully, better business partners.

Yes, he's a Pirate as well :flipoff2:

Just be careful who you're less than nice too!

PT

For every bad story, there is a good one.

I had this fella call meout of the blue, sounding like he had no idea what he was doing. I told him to bring his truck up to the shop and I'd hook up the computer and let him know what I thought it needed. The cost was $70.00.

I hooked up the computer and told him he had no oxygen sensor signal to the ECU., pay me the $70.00...

He proceeded to help me swap the shocks on a client's truck...

Next thing i know, he's in my shop making some nifty shock mounts, using my welder, etc.

A week later, he shows up with his MIG and leaves it at my shop...

Then he starts just showing up when he had time ( he lives two hours away).

then, we start wheeling together.

Then we start fabbing together.

Then he pays me the better part of a grand to do some major mods to his truck...

I shut down my shop to take a super-cool job, he opens a shop...

I get fired from super-cool job...

Guess who hires me to be his VP of Operations for his shop?

Sometimes, the "Hangers-on" can turn out to be VERY good friend and hopefully, better business partners.

Yes, he's a Pirate as well :flipoff2:

Just be careful who you're less than nice too!

PT


But for every good story, there's a thousand nightmares....

I just don't like the odds..

i'll chime in with my experiences. My family built a 24x48 garage completely for personal use. My dad and I have a couple rigs/tractors/show cars we store or work on.


my friend was trying to swap an engine and do a major project in his gravel driveway and it was just a huge pain in the ass. we offered the use of the garage to him for free and he accepted. his car was there for around 8 months. in this time, he bought the garage: an engine hoist, creapers, roller seats, and some tools. always kept his area very clean and organized, laid tarps out, swept up. stuff like that. Many weekends he'd buy pizza for everyone who was hanging out with him while he worked.

few months later another buddy (i called him my best friend of 15 years) asked to use some space to change a clutch. ok. should be down a week. 2 months later, his car was still there in pieces, the place was a mess, and when i asked him to pick up some hand cleaner and bring over he gave me shit saying i didn't ask the other guy to pick up any "supplies". that afternoon his car and parts were loaded onto the trailer and dropped off at his house, and he is not to bring another vehicle over ever.

so it comes down to the person and their work habits. if the first guy said "i'd like to do a frame up build, can i borrow a corner of the garage for 2 years, i'd answer "of course" without any hesitation. the guy takes the initiative to compensate us for way more than we'd ever need.