building a tire carrier

[j.kimball]

anyone know where to buy the stout looking latches and pivots used on the new tire carriers out there? i have looked all over to no avail. any help would be greatly appreciated.

[j.kimball]

anybody?

[jeepcrazie]

Here you go guy

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=475045

[j.kimball]

thank you....i tried to search but came up empty for some reason....

[SSGTWC]

Here's another source for the latches

McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=5071A62&pagenum=2396)

[Hutchew]

LATCH:

http://www.carrlane.com/Catalog/index.cfm/27825071F0B221118070C1C513E111D081B0006280B1713050 245221E0107070F1A3C3B2853514155

HINGE:

http://www.rockstomper.com/catalog/pieces/hinge.htm

[Aces'n'8s]

Here's another source for the latches

McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=5071A62&pagenum=2396)


And another one...

MSC Industrial...LATCHES (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/N2DRVSH)

[jeepnmatt]

i have a new Heavy Duty hinge that is available. it is based off a 1750lb rated trailer stub axle. i don't have it up on the website yet, but i can email you a PDF of the assembly drawing if you want to check it out. send me an email to matt@troutindustries.com for more info.

Matt

[Travis Waldher]

You know, I've heard of more than one occasion where the trailer stub axles snapping while driving down the road or trailer.

Was there ver a consensus on safe tire/weight limit for the 1750lb stubs?

[jeepnmatt]

so much depends on the design of the tire carrier that it really is hard to say.

i think that 2 latches is the way to go. one latch is on the bumper and the other it up higher where it attaches the top of the tire carrier to the tub/tailgate of the jeep. this keeps the TC and tire from bouncing and shaking the whole time its going down the road.

there are a lot of opinions, but the failures i have seen pics of are mainly due to fatigue and less than adequate support on the other end.

[ibrocun]

I've built several carriers, and I've learned a lot. One hinge (the one from Rockstomper) broke, dumping my carrier on the streets of San Francisco. Scared the hell out of two women following me. Here's a pic of the broken carrier before it broke:

http://www.autonomics.com/Pics/broken%20hinge/old%20carrier/Carrier.jpg


Here's a pic of the broken hinge:

http://www.autonomics.com/Pics/broken%20hinge/stub/oneninth.jpg

The hinge may not have been at fault. As Matt said above, having two latches eliminates an axis on which the carrier can twist. The beefy-ass hinge that Matt sells though makes me sleep better at night though. I would not use anything less.

Here's my current carrier. Note that I welded a post straight up from the bumper. There is a latch at the top and bottom of the post that the carrier is secured to, creating three points at which the carrier is attached to the bumper. There is no "wobble" whatsoever.

http://www.autonomics.com/Pics/Cooler/Cooler.JPG

http://www.autonomics.com/Pics/Cooler/Carrier.JPG

[j.kimball]

thats a bitchen idea... im having the same wobble problem now with the one that came on my jeep when i bought it.. i think its a tomken and what a pile!!!! it uses a brass bushing for a hinge. weak as hell! thanks guys..

[AthlonAJ]

I've been building custom bumpers over 5 years now and use those types of hinges on probably 99% of the tire carrier bumpers. I have yet to see a failure on them but I think the problem is twofold with those that have failed. First, just like was pointed out before, movement especially on the latch end of things. Just putting a piece of rubber where there carrier contacts the bumper stop will do wonders to help. Metal on metal will always get loose over time. The other part of that would be in the bumper itself. Most of those spindles aren't long enough to extend through the top and bottom so I always extend it with a piece of solid stock same diameter. On the SWB jeep bumpers I'll even run the mount through the bumper and the spindle for that extra ooomph.

The other part I've seen failures with was the welding of them, too much heat, too quick. Get em tacked into place, doublecheck then heat it up even with the bottled torch, won't get cherry but it will get hot enough. Even then I still burn it hard enough for full penetration but in short sections to give it time to come up to temp. Then if possible I shove it in the sand bucket or if I can't I'll cover it up best I can with a piece of thinner aluminum to bend it around then some heavy leathers.

At another shop I worked at on the side was working on a spray axle, monster spindle. Dumbass just poured the heat to it welding it on then immediately dumped water on it. Guy who owned the shop caught him and nearly fired his ass on the spot.

[byen00]

so much depends on the design of the tire carrier that it really is hard to say.

i think that 2 latches is the way to go. one latch is on the bumper and the other it up higher where it attaches the top of the tire carrier to the tub/tailgate of the jeep. this keeps the TC and tire from bouncing and shaking the whole time its going down the road.

there are a lot of opinions, but the failures i have seen pics of are mainly due to fatigue and less than adequate support on the other end.

I agree, it's the fact that that "frame" is wobbling & causing stress-fatigue. Snap! You know, how you can "cycle bend" a copper wire..& it snaps off? Same thing.

(example)
I bought an L-bracket for my offroad-light, from a metals company. It was too thin stock, so when I offroaded in Baja (lots of bumpy washboard roads)..boom, it snapped off at the "hinge".

Solution:
Clamp down that frame at the hinge (make the pillar go thru top & bottom of your bumper), & clamp the other side down..preferably top & bottom. "Fix" the whole dang thing, so it locks-down nice & tight. No wobble, or else that bit*h will break & cause a bad scene.

I'm about to do my bumper with the Rockstomper hinge, I have the AtoZ Industries clevis (good quality & great prices) & other hardware. It will carry a 35" BFG Mud Terrain, so that mutha better be designed "stout". I'm a somewhat beginner stick-welder, so that's another concern. Probably gonna do it this July 4 weekend.

[Monkeybutt]

I've built a couple of these and have come to ask myself why use a bearing/ stub shaft assembly at all? I mean, bearings are nice and all, but why not just use a 1" grade 8 bolt and a piece of 1.5"x.25 wall DOM as the hinge assembly. It's not like it is a hi-speed application where heat is going to be an issue (such as a trailer wheel), and the bearings are not adding additional strength. Seems like a zerk and a good shot of grease would give you plenty of lubrication for the limited motion it would see.

[solarpower]

I'm thinking maybe a bronze sleeve with graphite embeded in it would be an ideal replacement for a bearing. Like used in a press. Maybe not with a bolt, but some tg&p.

(that's turned, ground and polished steel. you can get it case hardened)

[Kyle Frazier]

Here is mine with a de-sta-co latch:
http://www.webhost.auto-motif.com/bumper3.jpg

Here is is broken, snapped off on the freeway.
http://www.webhost.auto-motif.com/hingefailure/hinge5.jpg

The cause was definitely fatiuge from movement.

My fix was to keep the latch and beef up the hinge I already had. Double shear:
http://www.webhost.auto-motif.com/hingefailure/hinge11.jpg
http://www.webhost.auto-motif.com/hingefailure/hinge9.jpg

The first version lasted a year before it snapped. This one has been running for 2 years with no problems.

[snowchucker]

My bro has built several swingouts w/ different hinges and recommends the 4x4 labs Heavy Duty spindle over the rockstomper... just way burlier.

http://www.4x4labs.com/products/index.html

[Roy's Rustbucket]

I've built a couple of these and have come to ask myself why use a bearing/ stub shaft assembly at all? I mean, bearings are nice and all, but why not just use a 1" grade 8 bolt and a piece of 1.5"x.25 wall DOM as the hinge assembly. It's not like it is a hi-speed application where heat is going to be an issue (such as a trailer wheel), and the bearings are not adding additional strength. Seems like a zerk and a good shot of grease would give you plenty of lubrication for the limited motion it would see.

This makes a lot of sense to me. It's not like you're opening and closing this thirty times per day. It's quite a bit of money for a hinge as well.

Roy

[fullygruntled]

spindle-wise, you all don't have junk front lockout outers laying around?

Pretty decent pictorial by a guy that stole my idea before I could implement it myself: :D
http://www.bc4x4.com/chrisw/projects/tirecarrier/carrier.asp

Gives you the option to lock the carrier into an open position, and depending on what parts you use, a handy place to keep a spare lockout.

For bearings, just use whatever's in the axle when you pull it from the junkyard.

I've got plenty of busted stub shafts and otherwise undesireable CJ 5-bolt lockouts that need to be put to use.

[Roy's Rustbucket]

spindle-wise, you all don't have junk front lockout outers laying around?

Pretty decent pictorial by a guy that stole my idea before I could implement it myself: :D
http://www.bc4x4.com/chrisw/projects/tirecarrier/carrier.asp

Gives you the option to lock the carrier into an open position, and depending on what parts you use, a handy place to keep a spare lockout.

For bearings, just use whatever's in the axle when you pull it from the junkyard.

I've got plenty of busted stub shafts and otherwise undesireable CJ 5-bolt lockouts that need to be put to use.

It sounds cool, but, I can't see the pic. Is there a write-up somewhere?

Roy

[fullygruntled]

oops... used the [img] tag instead of a [url] tag... fixed

[GeoB]

For my sammi's rear bumper, I am considering a design I once saw a pic of. Can't find the pic right now. Just a custom bumper made from 2x4 tube, or 2x6. The tire carrier rested on top. It was a long piece of angle iron, visualize the open 'V' resting on the top outer edge of the bumper. Sorta wrapped around it ya see. It touches on the top and front. On the far right side it has a bolt hole through it and all the way down through the bumper. This would not be strong, with just the angle iron, when you opened it. So there is another brace, attaches to the swivel bolt underneath the bumper. It extends to about half way of the length of the 1st piece, and angles up to meet it. Cheap cheap cheap. But it looked like it would work, particularly if I weld a post to the left side, or middle, of the bumper to hold the tire carrier ridgid at the top.

[kibblerange]

spindle-wise, you all don't have junk front lockout outers laying around?

Pretty decent pictorial by a guy that stole my idea before I could implement it myself:
http://www.bc4x4.com/chrisw/projects...er/carrier.asp

Gives you the option to lock the carrier into an open position, and depending on what parts you use, a handy place to keep a spare lockout.

For bearings, just use whatever's in the axle when you pull it from the junkyard.

I've got plenty of busted stub shafts and otherwise undesireable CJ 5-bolt lockouts that need to be put to use.

That is the coolest idea for a spare tire carrier lock I've ever seen.

-thanks for the bad ass tech

[sixty]

these are the best, most economical hinges I've seen. He includes alot more round stock than shown in the pic:

http://www.ironpigoffroad.com/customfab.htm

I snapped a trailer spindle & luckly my latch held... I replaced it with one of the above & I am more than happy...

Heres a pic of my bumper after I replaced the hinge:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256122&stc=1&d=1154022667

[sixty]

these are the best, most economical hinges I've seen. He includes alot more round stock than shown in the pic:

http://www.ironpigoffroad.com/customfab.htm

I snapped a trailer spindle & luckly my latch held... I replaced it with one of the above & I am more than happy...

Heres a pic of my bumper after I replaced the hinge:

[RedFJ]

For the spindle, just take a piece of 1.5" solid shaft, drop that in the bumper and slip over a piece of tube for the swingout. Have done a few this way, way beefy, and never bent/broken one. Had a guy back into a tree and it bent the entire rear frame cross member and dented the tailgate. ONly pic I could find.

[byen00]

these are the best, most economical hinges I've seen. He includes alot more round stock than shown in the pic:

http://www.ironpigoffroad.com/customfab.htm

I snapped a trailer spindle & luckly my latch held... I replaced it with one of the above & I am more than happy...

Heres a pic of my bumper after I replaced the hinge:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256122&stc=1&d=1154022667

I like your result, looks great.

I bought a Rockstomper hinge, & was about to install it on my rear-bumper. Then, I saw this thread, called up IronPigOffroad & am ordering their hinge.

Question:

You are supporting a 35" tire AND 3 gas-cans? (That's about what I'll be doing for my 4x4 van). Does the hinge support it OK, or is it overloading it a bit?

I am thinking of having 2 swingout arms: 1 to support the 35" tire & the other one to support the 3 gas cans (& other stuff).

How are you locking the arm in place, are you using the IronPigOffroad "compression latch" (made by SouthCo)? Or, are you using the DeStaco latch? Are you compressing it in the direction of the swing direction as per Ironpigoffroad:

http://www.ironpigoffroad.com/images/bumpers/FJ80%20Bumper/80bumper2.jpg

I have a DeStaco latch lying around, but Ironpigoffroad doesn't like it VS the above Soutcho compression latch

[artyart]

I've built a couple of these and have come to ask myself why use a bearing/ stub shaft assembly at all? I mean, bearings are nice and all, but why not just use a 1" grade 8 bolt and a piece of 1.5"x.25 wall DOM as the hinge assembly. It's not like it is a hi-speed application where heat is going to be an issue (such as a trailer wheel), and the bearings are not adding additional strength. Seems like a zerk and a good shot of grease would give you plenty of lubrication for the limited motion it would see.

just a newb to here (and welding) comments on using a bolt...........
I'm on my second version (the first one is now scrap:rolleyes: ) of a relatively simple carrier for an xj, using a 1" bolt, the sleeve is just .125" wall tube - I had some pieces of of tube I got to practice weld on - that works out ok for this, but it's ok only because I am sure over time I will be cutting the sleeves out and using thicker tube, after 6 months of moderate use I can see wear on it, if I was going to beat on it, it probably wouldnt last ....that being said the rest is 2" 3/16"wall tube, and is pretty solid. Im still working out locking it down, right now I have a 3/8" shackle run through two tabs on the opposite side, any wobble /slack is taken up by a rubber pad on those tabs, it seems solid, but it will get re-enforced as I decide how I want to do that - the good part is 1" bolts are cheap and plentiful, and so far I havent bent or broken one.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/artyart/Wheeling-06/done.jpg

[sixty]

I like your result, looks great.

I bought a Rockstomper hinge, & was about to install it on my rear-bumper. Then, I saw this thread, called up IronPigOffroad & am ordering their hinge.

Question:

You are supporting a 35" tire AND 3 gas-cans? (That's about what I'll be doing for my 4x4 van). Does the hinge support it OK, or is it overloading it a bit?

I am thinking of having 2 swingout arms: 1 to support the 35" tire & the other one to support the 3 gas cans (& other stuff).

How are you locking the arm in place, are you using the IronPigOffroad "compression latch" (made by SouthCo)? Or, are you using the DeStaco latch? Are you compressing it in the direction of the swing direction as per Ironpigoffroad:

I have a DeStaco latch lying around, but Ironpigoffroad doesn't like it VS the above Soutcho compression latch

Thanks! So far the hinges have much less deflection than the trailer spindle setup. mos of the deflection now comes from the bumper itself, so I'm convinced the hinges will not be a problem. I'll be going up to a 38" spare on a hummer bead lock wheel in the near future & I think this should work fine.

I had a deStaco latch sitting around for years but I could not find it so I used a 3/8" lynch pin ($3) thru 2-1/8" angles... its not as strong as I would have liked but its actually pretty convenient. I'm not sure why Lance says you need compression in the direction of swing, but it has not caused me any trouble yet (although I probably only have 200 on-road miles on it :shaking:). the compression & bumper must dampen vibration. I don't think its worth buying a new latch over but I like the compression latch better than the Destaco.

[byen00]

Thanks! So far the hinges have much less deflection than the trailer spindle setup. mos of the deflection now comes from the bumper itself, so I'm convinced the hinges will not be a problem. I'll be going up to a 38" spare on a hummer bead lock wheel in the near future & I think this should work fine.

I had a deStaco latch sitting around for years but I could not find it so I used a 3/8" lynch pin ($3) thru 2-1/8" angles... its not as strong as I would have liked but its actually pretty convenient. I'm not sure why Lance says you need compression in the direction of swing, but it has not caused me any trouble yet (although I probably only have 200 on-road miles on it :shaking:). the compression & bumper must dampen vibration. I don't think its worth buying a new latch over but I like the compression latch better than the Destaco.

You fabricated your own bumper & tire-carrier?

Do you have any pictures of:

1) tire-carrier "structure"

2) gas-can "structure"

[ I've bought a lot of surplus 2"x3" & 2"x2" & 2"x4", but it's 3/32"..just a tad under 1/8". I will use it for the above "structures", I hope it's up to the task. How thick is your wheel-plate? I've seen 3/4", 1/2" (too much!)..I think I will try 1/4" ]

That clamp that sits over the gas-can nozzles, is it steel? I like your gas-cans, their the European issue. I have 2 of them, which I got locally @Army surplus store.

I just completed my rear bumper & mount today, lotsa welding/grinding & drilling! I'm waiting on the hinge from IronPigOffroad, it shipped out today.

The main bumper is 4"x6", 3/32" wall. It's kinda thin by bumper standards (1/8", 3/16", 1/4"), but I have 2" tubing drilled-thru/welded at 6 places..adds some structural strength. With the brackets (1/4"), I can barely lift the dang thing..it's at least 70 lbs. How heavy is your bumper + tire-carrier?

[artyart]

I'm betting that 3/32" would be a bit on the lightwieght side. I know Tomken makes their crap out of 1/8" wall, read up on the griping about that. my own experience with the first bumper carrier I made was with 2" square 1/8" wall tube, it definitely wasnt up to the task, at least for the style bumper I was making - not that I didnt learn from making it twice (why I did all of it in the first place....), but the time involved did start to suck. you might not have the same problems I did, but the biggest issue was the lower part of the bumper warping and twisting from the weight of the tire, the first version didnt hold up at all, the second almost done and promises to be a lot stronger. Just for using 3/16 wall tube it does not flex anywhere near as much when opened (i wanted to keep it low profile so I used 2" tube on the lower side as well as the carrier.) With a little more support in a few spots it will be plenty strong.

[sixty]

You fabricated your own bumper & tire-carrier?

Do you have any pictures of:

1) tire-carrier "structure"

2) gas-can "structure"

[ I've bought a lot of surplus 2"x3" & 2"x2" & 2"x4", but it's 3/32"..just a tad under 1/8". I will use it for the above "structures", I hope it's up to the task. How thick is your wheel-plate? I've seen 3/4", 1/2" (too much!)..I think I will try 1/4" ]

That clamp that sits over the gas-can nozzles, is it steel? I like your gas-cans, their the European issue. I have 2 of them, which I got locally @Army surplus store.

I just completed my rear bumper & mount today, lotsa welding/grinding & drilling! I'm waiting on the hinge from IronPigOffroad, it shipped out today.

The main bumper is 4"x6", 3/32" wall. It's kinda thin by bumper standards (1/8", 3/16", 1/4"), but I have 2" tubing drilled-thru/welded at 6 places..adds some structural strength. With the brackets (1/4"), I can barely lift the dang thing..it's at least 70 lbs. How heavy is your bumper + tire-carrier?

The tire carrier is just 2x3x3/16 ts with a 1/4" plate welded on the end to carry the tire. heres ppics of the original incarnation from 4 years ago: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85038&highlight=carrier

the gas can carrier is schedule 40 1-1/4" pipe & 2x2x1/8" angle for the cradle. the strap is 1.5"x1/8" steel bar used to hold down the carrier. Pm me with your email addres s& I'll send you the large file size pics so maybe you can get a better idea. Right now the bumper is in my back yard pulled appart under a tarp while I'm installing full width axles, so I really can't get any pics at the moment.

My bumper is all 3/16" & 1/4" and in total weight about 150lbs... 3/32 wall tube is too small to use. your better off getting heavier steel that doesn't require as much reinforcing.

[Brian1]

I made my own bumper and tire carrier as well. I got all the tire carrier parts from McMasterCarr. I designed and assembled my own hinge because I didnt like the trailer spindle type. I do not know the part #'s of the stuff I got. Used a Destaco Latch and a stainless pin as a safety/secondary latch with a lanyard back to the main latch. The carrier rests on a piece of delrin pad at the opposite side of the hinge. It also has a backstop so it draws tight when closed. Here are a few pics of mine:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=258347&stc=1&d=1155348445
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=258348&stc=1&d=1155348445
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=258349&stc=1&d=1155348445

[PhantomEB]

Thats a smart idea puttin a pin in the back side. Sure have gotten some great ideas from this thread, no doubt!

Matt at Trout, you have email!

[byen00]

I made my own bumper and tire carrier as well. I got all the tire carrier parts from McMasterCarr. I designed and assembled my own hinge because I didnt like the trailer spindle type. I do not know the part #'s of the stuff I got. Used a Destaco Latch and a stainless pin as a safety/secondary latch with a lanyard back to the main latch. The carrier rests on a piece of delrin pad at the opposite side of the hinge. It also has a backstop so it draws tight when closed...

I see you've got a hinge that has support at the top (tire-hinge only has it at the bottom, lotsa leverage which can have the potential of breakage).

Did you put the Hi-Lift jack on the other side of the tire, to counter-balance the tire? I'm going to have to do the same, to minimize the leverage of the tire being on one isde of the swing-arm.

How thick is your swing-arm & bumper?

[trkklr77]

not nearly on the same level as wha toyu guys are building but it is a much more $$$ option and i had to "fab" to get it on, so i feel etough enough to hang with you guys.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=499382

[GPERX4]

I have a Runk swing out rear bumper that I put on the Jeep when it was new 27 years ago. I carry a 33 spare on it and added two 5 gal gas cans and never had a problem. They used the tube in a tube design for their hinge and it has ben a good one.

[AmigoTJ44]

Brian1 could you give some more specs material, sizes, part #s

thanks

[byen00]

Here's a link to a professionally done tire-carrier (uses a bolt-based hinge):

http://community.webshots.com/album/549572641tMbqpq/0

Simple, well executed. No trailer-spindle based hinge.

The key feature is the "anti-vibration isolation", using polyurethane stops:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/549572641/2027172220027333187VSrAqP

http://community.webshots.com/photo/549572641/2917518060027333187pWFiKm

It uses the same Southco compression-latch, that Ironpigoffroad uses.

More links to other designs:

http://community.webshots.com/album/549574362nOKLFZ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/549574362/2690461990027333187ajxZTL

[ similar to the "double shear" design in this thread, to replace the broken Rockstomper hinge. It uses a SouthCo compression latch. ]

http://community.webshots.com/album/51076615JlXUQt

Here's a design by BigDaddyOffroad:

http://bigdaddyoffroad.biz/xcart/product.php?productid=16146&cat=250&page=1

Again, simple & basic & it works.

[Brian1]

I see you've got a hinge that has support at the top (tire-hinge only has it at the bottom, lotsa leverage which can have the potential of breakage).

Did you put the Hi-Lift jack on the other side of the tire, to counter-balance the tire? I'm going to have to do the same, to minimize the leverage of the tire being on one isde of the swing-arm.

How thick is your swing-arm & bumper?

I havent mounted the hi lift or gas can yet. I just modeled them to see what it would look like. I will one day make some more mounts on it. My hi lift is currently mounted to my roof rack.

Swingout frame is 2"x2"x.120" and the bumper is 2"x6"x3/16"

Brian1 could you give some more specs material, sizes, part #s

thanks

Like I said in my above post I do not have the part #'s that I used. The bolt is an 1 1/4" socket head cap screw about 6"-7" long. Piece of 2"x.25" DOM tube (~3" long) with an oil impregnated bronze bushing pressed in (SAE 841 Bronze). The bearings are steel needle roller thrust bearings that ride on hardened washers made for them.

Here is a pic of the finished bumper minus hi-lift and gas can:

[byen00]

...Like I said in my above post I do not have the part #'s that I used. The bolt is an 1 1/4" socket head cap screw about 6"-7" long. Piece of 2"x.25" DOM tube (~3" long) with an oil impregnated bronze bushing pressed in (SAE 841 Bronze). The bearings are steel needle roller thrust bearings that ride on hardened washers made for them.
...

Where do I get these parts? Oil impregnated brass bushing, et al. Sounds like pretty specialized stuff.

Do you get them at McMaster Carr? (http://www.mcmaster.com)

[Brian1]

Where do I get these parts? Oil impregnated brass bushing, et al. Sounds like pretty specialized stuff.

Do you get them at McMaster Carr? (http://www.mcmaster.com)

Yes I got everything from them except the bolt which came from my local fastner warehouse. They do have the bolt as well but they were more expensive at McMaster. The DOM tube section came from my local metal supply (Metal Supermarket) that sells by the inch/foot

[DpSyChO]

I snapped a trailer spindle & luckly my latch held...

What size tire were you running on the carrier?

[AmigoTJ44]

Yes I got everything from them except the bolt which came from my local fastner warehouse. They do have the bolt as well but they were more expensive at McMaster. The DOM tube section came from my local metal supply (Metal Supermarket) that sells by the inch/foot

You have a large nut or something welded to the inside of the bumper?

[Brian1]

You have a large nut or something welded to the inside of the bumper?

Yes, plug welded inside the bumper.

[sixty]

What size tire were you running on the carrier?


Same tire as shown in the pic... a 35" MT on an aluminum rim, About 75lbs.


Byen00, I tried to send you email but it was bounced... I must have lost the large size pics... I don't have them anymore. Sorry!

[byen00]

Yes, plug welded inside the bumper.

You're using a 1.25" bolt (1.5"/2" I.D./O.D. 1/4" tubing, with oil-impregnated bushing 1.5"/1.25" O.D./I.D.), screwed into a nut welded insided the bumper.

That Ironpigoffroad system, uses a 1.5" solid post (2"/1.75" O.D./I.D. 1/8" tubing) with oil-impregnated bushings on top & bottom. The bushings have a lip, so it doesn't have the hardened-washer/needle-bearing combo you use.

Here's another solution:

http://www.4x4xplor.com/LoD-Xpedition.html

Lotsa pics & explanation, very informative.

This system apparently doesn't "secure" the swing-arm..it can slide off (say, if the 4x4 rolled):

http://www.4x4xplor.com/images/LoD-Xpedition/DSC00448.jpg

http://www.4x4xplor.com/images/LoD-Xpedition/DSC00502.jpg

It also uses a brass oil-impregnated bushing, inside the hinge tube. Note the rubber stops on the door, for "isolation". More dampening, to prevent "cycle of vibration" which can lead to metal fatigue & eventual failure of hinge.


Here's a design that's similar to yours: a bolt screwed on from the top:
http://image48.webshots.com/48/4/61/99/2690461990027333187ajxZTL_ph.jpg

I think he is just using hardened washers for the top & bottom of the hinge.

More pics at

http://community.webshots.com/album/549574362nOKLFZ

[byen00]

I've been building custom bumpers over 5 years now and use those types of hinges on probably 99% of the tire carrier bumpers. I have yet to see a failure on them but I think the problem is twofold with those that have failed. First, just like was pointed out before, movement especially on the latch end of things. Just putting a piece of rubber where there carrier contacts the bumper stop will do wonders to help. Metal on metal will always get loose over time. The other part of that would be in the bumper itself. Most of those spindles aren't long enough to extend through the top and bottom so I always extend it with a piece of solid stock same diameter. On the SWB jeep bumpers I'll even run the mount through the bumper and the spindle for that extra ooomph.

The other part I've seen failures with was the welding of them, too much heat, too quick. Get em tacked into place, doublecheck then heat it up even with the bottled torch, won't get cherry but it will get hot enough. Even then I still burn it hard enough for full penetration but in short sections to give it time to come up to temp. Then if possible I shove it in the sand bucket or if I can't I'll cover it up best I can with a piece of thinner aluminum to bend it around then some heavy leathers.

At another shop I worked at on the side was working on a spray axle, monster spindle. Dumbass just poured the heat to it welding it on then immediately dumped water on it. Guy who owned the shop caught him and nearly fired his ass on the spot.

AJ, are you talking about welding the solid stock to the slip-tube?

Here's a pic of my Rockstomper hinge, with the solid 1.25" stock inserted into a 1.5" O.D. tubing (1/8" thick):

http://imageserver4.textamerica.com/user.images.x/81/IMG_465681/_0814/T520060814214507924.jpg

You'll note the holes drilled, for the plug-weld. Is that the welding you're talking about, where you have to pre-heat & decelerate the cooling?

I was going to take my DC stick welder (170 amp), & just start welding.

I just completed my base-bumper (shackled mounts, brackets, et al), & am ready to start the whole hinge/swing-arm/frame portion.

[AthlonAJ]

Yeah the base of the spindle. Rapid temp changes are not good for metal in general especially when it comes to solid stock. Here's a pic of one I'm finishing up. You can see how I positioned the spindle so it's actually protruding partially through the face of the bumper giving a huge amount of weld area. There's a cosmetic piece over that to match up with the top section. What you don't see in the pic is a 2x.75 piece of stock that goes through the bumper and is welded to the hinge base as well.

In the 2nd pic I put a small section of tube to hold the swingarm in a nice fixed position. Prevents it from moving at all when latched and taking the stress off the spindle. Sorry for the blurry pics, camera sucks at night.

[byen00]

Yeah the base of the spindle. Rapid temp changes are not good for metal in general especially when it comes to solid stock. Here's a pic of one I'm finishing up. You can see how I positioned the spindle so it's actually protruding partially through the face of the bumper giving a huge amount of weld area. There's a cosmetic piece over that to match up with the top section. What you don't see in the pic is a 2x.75 piece of stock that goes through the bumper and is welded to the hinge base as well.

In the 2nd pic I put a small section of tube to hold the swingarm in a nice fixed position. Prevents it from moving at all when latched and taking the stress off the spindle. Sorry for the blurry pics, camera sucks at night.

Are you using the Rockstomper hinge or the Troutindustries one? It definitely is a trailer-spindle type of hinge.

Is that tire-carrier plate adjustable? It looks like there's a screw to move it fore & aft. I noticed it's angled, to put the CoG (center of gravity) of wheel more forward..less leverage on the hinge. I'm thinking of doing the same thing in my design.

Is there a reason why you're using round tubing for the frame? Is round structurally stronger than square? I'm using square (2", 3/32" wall), since it's way easier to cut..straight VS notching round-tubing.

Dang, I'm looking at your fab-work, there's a LOT of fabbing, welding to get those nice corners. I don't have a plasma cutter (don't know how to use a gas torch to cut, either), so my fabbing takes a long time. I use my chop-saw a lot.

How long will this tire-carrier project take you? I'm like 2 weeks into my thing, & I'm just crawling along. I will say, I'm doing a really custom thing on mine, & I'm doing the "trial & error" thing so that explains why it's time consuming. It's not like I have all the pieces pre-made & all I have to do is assemble, tack, weld, etc. I.e., my thing isn't a production item thing.

It takes me so dang long to fab up pieces, fit them, weld it, grind it, sand it, then paint it.

[byen00]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=258683&d=1155621458

AJ, how do you get those clean grind areas?

I have a standard 4" grinder, & I simply can't bevel the corners like you do. You can't manipulate that 4" grinder like a pencil. I actually sliced up my pinky finger last week, when I tried to manipulate it like an artists brush.

Are you using a smaller die grinder, with a sanding disc?

BTW, I need to give AJ a plug here..he's an experienced fabricator out in Iowa. Check out his website:

http://ajsoffroadarmor.com/RearBumpers/index.htm

It's way easier just to let a pro like AJ do your bumper, rather than DIY. LOTS of time designing & executing it. My DIY project was a necessity because I have an oddball vehicle (Dodge 4x4 van)

[jeepnmatt]

Thats a smart idea puttin a pin in the back side. Sure have gotten some great ideas from this thread, no doubt!

Matt at Trout, you have email!

PhantomEB,
i emailed you those PDF's of the HD hinge, let me know if you have any other questions.

Matt

[rckjeep]

i used one like this. It mounts to the bumper and has hole in the end of the swingout keep it closed. Then I drilled a hole and use a 5/8 hitch pin clip to lock it closed

[jesster]

AJ, how do you get those clean grind areas?

I have a standard 4" grinder, & I simply can't bevel the corners like you do. You can't manipulate that 4" grinder like a pencil. I actually sliced up my pinky finger last week, when I tried to manipulate it like an artists brush.

Flap discs make rounding metal easy...

[AthlonAJ]

Are you using the Rockstomper hinge or the Troutindustries one? It definitely is a trailer-spindle type of hinge.
This one actually came from another place, won't mention their name because I got a deal on them....the quality of the outer piece SUCKED. I much prefer the other ones.


Is that tire-carrier plate adjustable?
Yes sir. I hate those carriers that have the tire sticking way out, like to keep things nice and tight. This way if they change backspacing, tire or rim width then they're not sol.

Is there a reason why you're using round tubing for the frame? Is round structurally stronger than square?
Nah-I use both, just a matter of cosmetic preference. I will say that when building out of square I'll usually use a 2x3 piece for the main part of the swingarm.


How long will this tire-carrier project take you? Anywhere from 2-4 days. Don't get discouraged with your project, doing shit yourself is something to be damn proud of because a lot of people never even have the chance.

About those corners, I wish I had a huge metal brake to just bend it all up but those are all pieced in. Nice hot welds on both sides, a fatter one on the outer to allow more shaping. I like to use a regular ol grinding wheel to knock it down then a 50 grit grinding disc on a flexible backer. When it's all done I'll go over everything with a flap wheel but those discs are so cheap I prefer them. Hey if you ever invest in a bandsaw get one that also cuts vertical. A lot of times I'll use that more than the plasma because it cuts so cleanly and more precise. Good luck with your build!

[byen00]

Anywhere from 2-4 days. Don't get discouraged with your project, doing shit yourself is something to be damn proud of because a lot of people never even have the chance.

...Good luck with your build!

Here's a photo-gallery (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chimpanzee/sets/72157594238683691/) of my backyard/workshop, where I'm doing the rear-bumper build. Your terminology "shit" is applicable, since I have stuff all over the place.

I'm in such a dang hurry, I neglected to take pics during the last 2 weeks.

rear-bumper foundation: 3"x6" 3/32" wall, integrated 2" receiver (which is tied in to the Class 3 hitch with 1/2" hitch-pin), shackle lugs (bought from AtoZ Fabrication), 4 military ammo cases ($3/piece via mail-order):

http://static.flickr.com/96/216460213_a36c982fcc.jpg?v=0

closeup (1" thick pine board installed over ammo cases):

http://static.flickr.com/74/216458552_087d2d725b.jpg?v=0

detail of bumper mounts (2 attachments per side, the outer one is 1/4" thick which is bolted to the side of 1/4" thick Class 3 hitch side):

http://static.flickr.com/83/216456639_227152fd29.jpg?v=0

detail of integrated 2" receiver (to take a Warn 8000lb removable winch, see above photo-gallery), which extends down to Class 3 hitch & attaches via 1/2" hitch-pin:

http://static.flickr.com/97/216456643_8b8ad6188c.jpg?v=0

shackle lug extends thru bumper, & is welded to the 1/4" bracket (which attaches to Class 3 hitch & van frame)"

http://static.flickr.com/92/216456641_a453b81067.jpg?v=0

detail of bracket (1/4") that attaches to Class 3 hitch side (1/4" thick):

http://static.flickr.com/86/216457946_377cb614ae.jpg?v=0

DC arc-welder/generator:

http://static.flickr.com/93/216465323_49f6db214e.jpg?v=0

Lincoln 3200HD (125v mig-welder) & sawhorse workbench for bumper:

http://static.flickr.com/97/216466340_c61be7db29.jpg?v=0

workbench for grinding/cutting & parts bench:

http://static.flickr.com/80/216465329_c063777029.jpg?v=0

closeup of parts bench:

http://static.flickr.com/88/216467241_883c3404dc.jpg?v=0

I'm learning a lot in this project, the result looks kinda rough (doesn't have that polished professional look like an AJ-built bumper). But, the build is solid & it will work good.

[byen00]

AJ, do you apply a coat of primer before you lay on multiple coats of black paint?

A guy at the hardware store said if I didn't do the above (just put black paint on bare metal) that the paint would come off. I accidentally scraped my fingernail on multiple coats of black paint, & I was surprised to see bare metal exposed! Maybe he's right.

I saw your writeup on using that "undercoating spray" to give your bumpers a textured look. Forgot where I saw it. I don't remember if you used a primer undercoat.

Have you checked out that spray which gives an anti-slip textured coating? It's way cheaper than that 3M adhesive sandpaper ($5/foot!!). I'm thinking of using it.


http://static.flickr.com/74/216458552_087d2d725b.jpg?v=0

I now have the problem of how to coat that 1" pine, so that it "integrates" with the metal bumper. I want an all-weather coating, like varnish..like that tannish brown you see on outdoor chairs. Except, that would make it slippery & I don't want any accidents. Any recommendations?

[AthlonAJ]

Yeah without primer of some kind, most paints won't do jack. I'm sold on metal etching primer, you can get it in spray cans at most any auto parts store and it's well worth the money. Adheres so much better than regular primer does and it's only a couple bucks more. You know a local WalMart actually had some Rustoleum anti-slip spray paint on clearance for $1 a can (normally about $4-5). I bought every can they had and love the stuff. Definitely holds up better than regular paint. It does work pretty good on wood but I haven't seen how it holds up over time on it yet.

[cebby]

Yeah, I know this thread is old...

Here's a link to a professionally done tire-carrier (uses a bolt-based hinge):

http://community.webshots.com/album/549572641tMbqpq/0

Simple, well executed. No trailer-spindle based hinge.

The key feature is the "anti-vibration isolation", using polyurethane stops:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/549572641/2027172220027333187VSrAqP

http://community.webshots.com/photo/549572641/2917518060027333187pWFiKm

It uses the same Southco compression-latch, that Ironpigoffroad uses.

More links to other designs:

http://community.webshots.com/album/549574362nOKLFZ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/549574362/2690461990027333187ajxZTL

[ similar to the "double shear" design in this thread, to replace the broken Rockstomper hinge. It uses a SouthCo compression latch. ]

http://community.webshots.com/album/51076615JlXUQt

Here's a design by BigDaddyOffroad:

http://bigdaddyoffroad.biz/xcart/product.php?productid=16146&cat=250&page=1

Again, simple & basic & it works.

Who makes the latch that Shrockworks is using? I like the square/rec receiver hole concept for the tongue on the latch.

[zachv]

Since this was dragged back to the top I have a question for the gurus and engineers out there. We have been using and selling our standard 1" trailer spindle for a few years that many companies use, like the Rockstomper, and we have realized a 1-2% failure rate with the spindle breaking. That is not horrible, but I would like to explore other alternatives.

My question is, do you think a 1 1/16" hot rolled spindle with the 1" bearing faces, like in the pictures above of the broken units, are stronger than a Grade 8 1" bolt? I am thinking that I could make a weld-in sleeve for the bumper that would have 1"-14tpi threads and then use a 1"-14 bolt with a 4" shoulder and 1.5" of threads. I am wondering if the bolt would be less likely to snap compared to the spindles.

Any thoughts?? The single shear method is so much easier so we are not looking at designing a double shear unit right now, but that may be something to explore down the road.

[BB1980]

I have noticed that alot of people who are building tire carriers are putting the tire closer to the latch end than the hinge end. That is putting even MORE stress on the spindle/hinge than if you put it closer to the hinge. If you want your tire in a certain location for better visibility, put the hinge on the same side as you want your tire. Also, the less weight that is acting on the latch side, the less forces the latch has to try to hold still against vibes and bumps.

[ToddRH]

We have been using and selling our standard 1" trailer spindle for a few years that many companies use, like the Rockstomper, and we have realized a 1-2% failure rate with the spindle breaking. That is not horrible, but I would like to explore other alternatives.

Any thoughts?? The single shear method is so much easier so we are not looking at designing a double shear unit right now, but that may be something to explore down the road.

Double shear. Because you fix the weakest link when it shows itself.

[SirMrManGuy]

For people looking for a good latch solution, look a the stock ones on 87-95 Nissan Pathfinder tire carriers. Nice spring loaded auto locking latch, should be able to get one from a junkyard for cheap.

[jeepnmatt]

Zach,
All of the failures i have seen are on 1" spindles. personally, i still believe the biggest problem is the design, and not the hinge. there has to be something to keep the tire carrier from moving around when going down the road or your could fatigue the spindle.

in response to the breakage, i developed my HD hinge that uses the 1750lb spindle. it is considerably more "beefy" than the 1000lb spindle. the OD of the stub end is 1.75" on the 1750#'er and 1.25" on the 1000#'er. i've not heard of a single one of these breaking. also, its still single shear to keep it simple. i came up with a design for a kit to convert the standard kits to double shear, but its fairly complex and expensive to make and no longer offer it.

Matt

[zachv]

Zach,
All of the failures i have seen are on 1" spindles. personally, i still believe the biggest problem is the design, and not the hinge. there has to be something to keep the tire carrier from moving around when going down the road or your could fatigue the spindle.

in response to the breakage, i developed my HD hinge that uses the 1750lb spindle. it is considerably more "beefy" than the 1000lb spindle. the OD of the stub end is 1.75" on the 1750#'er and 1.25" on the 1000#'er. i've not heard of a single one of these breaking. also, its still single shear to keep it simple. i came up with a design for a kit to convert the standard kits to double shear, but its fairly complex and expensive to make and no longer offer it.

Matt

I definitely agree, Matt. I have some out there on rigs that get wheeled very hard with no problems, but they have good capture systems and proper isolation at the top of the swingaway.

I think the issue with the 1" spindles is that you weld right to the load-bearing part of the shaft. I have been looking into having custom spindles made that have two big benefits. One is to incorporate a "weld flange" on top of the bumper so the HAZ does not create a snap area, and the other change would be to make it long enough to go through a standard 5" tall bumper. I would also make it from a better material than the Chinese hot-rolled crap readily available now.

[a440scout]

go to ems offroard they look the best and are only a 100$ for the whole kit
http://emsoffroad.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=122_123&products_id=212

[zachv]

go to ems offroard they look the best and are only a 100$ for the whole kit


EMS is a great shop, but that is the exact same spindle we already use.

[AthlonAJ]

Hey Zach, looks like I'm eating my words of having zero failures with that setup, finally had one. I'm putting together a double shear setup for our bumpers running a lot of junk on the back like gas can mounts... but would be interested in a simpler setup for the basic tire mount.

Here's a pic of the failed one though, what's weird is that most that I've seen look crystallized and all the way across where this one is that way about 75%. It's also rusty in that area which leads me to believe it was that way for awhile. The clean break is what I'd expect to see when it's overloaded and what gave up last. The customer did say it was pretty wobbly from the start which isn't something we normally see. There shouldn't be any HAZ in that top part of the spindle either, very little heat up towards the top. All the welds in the pic at the base of the spindle are for looks and to seal it up. BTW this was on one built this year, we've got stuff being beat to snot that's 8+ years old and holding up fine.

Big thing is the K.I.S.S. principle, needs to be basic and tough as nails, easily serviceable by the customer. Granted this failure might never happen again, I'd rather not find out.

[jmcbroom]

You know, I've heard of more than one occasion where the trailer stub axles snapping while driving down the road or trailer.

Was there ver a consensus on safe tire/weight limit for the 1750lb stubs?

I had that happen to me about 3 weeks ago with my Rockstomper hinge. I was opening the tire carrier (t-bolt latch) and kept wondering why the hell it was so hard to unscrew, as soon as the screw let loose I knew why - BAM, the entire tire carrier fell to the garage floor. I'm so glad that thing didn't let loose on the freeway.

Guess it's time to build another bumper, or at least replace the hinge in the current bumper.

But, yeah, the hinge snapped in two, looks like a clean break too.

[jmcbroom]

http://www.autonomics.com/Pics/broken%20hinge/stub/oneninth.jpg

Dood, mine broke in EXACTLY the same place.