i've been thinking about this for about a year now. and with all the eco freaks out there trying to close every trail it seems like a good idea.

i was thinking of buying about 10-20 acres and making about 10 different trails with varing degrees of difficulty. and have different requirements for the trails, like saftey gear and vehicle mods.

i would charge a yearly fee or a once a day type of thing.

i think this would be cool. the fees would pay for the land, hopefully:confused:

what do you think. would you go to something like that, if there were really extreame trails as well!:smokin:

Yup I've thought about it many times but you can't buy land with pocket lint. :)

Well seeing as how it's your land and if someone gets hurt on it it's your land therefore your fault I'd be looking into the costs of liability insurance plus I'd make everyone that stepped foot on it sign a accident/injury waiver!

yeah legality problems!

just put a big sign up!

if you wheel, its at your own risk, won't pay for stupid peoples accidents! :flipoff2:

but other then that, if i had a few partners it wouldn't be to bad.

land in montana isn't too highly priced yet!:D

Yeah, it's your liability that makes it tough. Besides, $50k worth of land takes a long time to pay off at $20/day or whatever you choose to charge.

Yup, thought about it frequently. Land isn't too terribly expensive. Improved land (water, electric, some type of sewage system) is the bitch.

Round here, the EPA's big thing is dust in the air. You get a bunch of rigs kickin up dust all day long, you can bet someone will be there to fine you. Sounds like they are gettin a taste of it at Hollister Hills. Gotta watch for chit like that also.

i was thinkin of this with 40 acres i have, i even have a nice canyon and rock crawling area built in, but as mentioned, theres no way i'll be able to recoupe the insurance rates, and yes, you will get fined for dust on private property, it was explained to me like this, CONSTRUCTION AREA. think about it, dust,liability,noise traffic, its all the same as a construction area on a privately owned commercial lot.
but i have been thinking of another route, me and the city planner are freindly, no not like that, i have thrown an idea his way, kinda like a cross between a city park and the skateboard parks they are building nowadays. it would be city owned but sponsored and maintaned by local 4wd clubs, this could be feasable, but there is still the dust issue, we'll see how it goes.

Texas has an orginization set up just for this. It's called the Texas Motorized Trails Coalition. They get grants and donations from Texas Parks and Wildlife and from people who become members and they buy land and then set it up for off-roading. So far, they only have one piece of land in Gilmer, TX, but they are looking at a few places to purchase. I'm a member and wheel at the OHV park. It sure is nice not having to worry about land closures that way.

You Calinfornians need to look at something like this.

we have OHV areas here in AZ too, but what i'm lookin at doing and maybe others, is building actual obstacles and such for a dedicated off road park. rather than some spot in the desert where there is more broken beer bottles and spent ammo than than anything else.

theres a couple of parks here in indiana.. with acrees.. not 10 or so.. ithink one is 1000 acres and the other is around 300 ibelive not sure.. on that.. but both are about 2 hours from my home.. which isnt bad but it could be closer.. my neighbor owns and runs a ama sanction moto-x track and he has around 100 acres still in woods.. and my family owns about 120 acres.. ive been kicking around the idea of possibly starting some trails here.. the neigbor has put on a mud bog once or twice.. so im thinking he might like the idea of trails.. plus this would bring more income then just from moto-x.. but like it has been said insurance is a big deal! i know his insurance made him stop racing quads do to fact some really bad accidents have occuried with un experinced riders trying to be badasss's so it basically comes down to the all mighty dollar bill..

dont get me wrong if some rich person wants to donate to my idea.. im more then willing:D

I have thought about it many times and when I am looking to buy a hous ethat will come into play on how much land I get. I would love to have something on my property but of course there are all sorts of issues to get worked out. Time will tell what happens but I have been seriously considering it.

if i win this big game lotto, 325 mill., i'll put a couple of areas on the east coast for sure!! hell froze over 2 hours ago so my chances might be good.

Originally posted by fishhead18
if i win this big game lotto, 325 mill., i'll put a couple of areas on the east coast for sure!! hell froze over 2 hours ago so my chances might be good.

Sorry but you're not going to win because I am!:flipoff2:

BTW Hell freezes over every winter...Hell Michigan that is!:D

www.wheelininthecountry.com is a private land owned off road park here in TN that started last year...

IMHO - this is the future of our sport. Too many issues with public land, private land solves it.


Not that I like losing the places we have now, but it is coming.


My ideal future of off roading? The various off road organizations start pooling their resources to BUY or LONG TERM LEASE land to create off road parks, creating - similar to RV parks - a network of places to trail ride across the country.

We can stop whining about losing trails, stop fighting to get trails back - we just enjoy our sport.

Rhino I'm with you and have thought about the same thing out on the way to Saguro Lake...you'll never recoup the investment but would be worth the land investment if nothing else...going to check on land prices next week but it might be too much....

Originally posted by DRM
www.wheelininthecountry.com is a private land owned off road park here in TN that started last year...

IMHO - this is the future of our sport. Too many issues with public land, private land solves it.


Not that I like losing the places we have now, but it is coming.


My ideal future of off roading? The various off road organizations start pooling their resources to BUY or LONG TERM LEASE land to create off road parks, creating - similar to RV parks - a network of places to trail ride across the country.

We can stop whining about losing trails, stop fighting to get trails back - we just enjoy our sport.




looks like a nice lil spot where abouts in tn.? ever let out of state boys run it? let me know some more info as of where it located etc.. the ol lady wants to goto the mountainsand a lil 4x4 trip could work 4 me! hahaha shhhhdon tell her

I have looked at a couple of acre lots every now and then and for the price they seem like they might be viable candidates. Would you say that 40 acres for about $20K that is fully undeveloped, raw land would work okay?!? :D It is pretty close to major highways but far enough from "civilization" that the locals shouldn't pose to much of a problem. I have thought about minor developments like a main bunkhouse type with a well, basic electricity, and a septic system. I even dreamed up some basic shacks and showers like a kid's summer camp for weekend events. There is enough development within a few hundred miles to provide for quite the "rock garden" at no cost. I might even charge a small fee for "dumping" natural debris. :evil::D ost of these construction companies pay out the butt to dump those piles of fun.

BTW ... the general vicinity of my "secret spot" is N-NW of Phoenix and S-SW of Vegas. Lets see some hands of those who think they would venture out that general way. :beer:

My mom has some land in Death Valley. 42 acres. She's been tryin to sell it asking $14,000 for several years. I had thought about making it into a wheeling place, but I have no idea if it's all just flat dirt or what. I guess the prerunner guys would like it. Not sure if there's anything for us krawlers though.

Originally posted by oopsdidmyjeeproostya
looks like a nice lil spot where abouts in tn.? ever let out of state boys run it? let me know some more info as of where it located etc.. the ol lady wants to goto the mountainsand a lil 4x4 trip could work 4 me! hahaha shhhhdon tell her

It is In Summertown TN, between Lawrenceburg and Columbia TN. Give them a call for more info - they have people come from all over to ride...

you'll never recoup the investment

I beg to differ with you on that one. Previous mention of Indiana parks would include the Attica Badlands which I used to live 20 minutes from.

The park is approximately 800-1000 acres and all privately owned by Troy Meyers and his wife. They do extremely well ($$$ wise) because of this investment. They charge a daily fee (you can buy a yearly pass also) and quads, motorcycles, and 4x4's can ride.

You sign a liability waiver when you pay your daily fee and you have to enter thorugh a certain area. On busy weekends they have off-duty police there to help manage traffic and sign-in.

They charge $15 per vehicle (4x4, quad, or bike) and $5 per passenger. I've been there on days where there were at least 50-100 4x4's along with a few hundred quads/bikes.

I wouldn't think it was an overestimate to say that they brought in $15,000-$20,000 on the busiest 3-day weekends of the year. Overhead cost (excluding insurance) must be minimal due to only 10-15 employees and minimal electricity for the office/shop.

Troy is a great guy and if you approached him to schedule a q/a conversation about private parks I'm sure he would accomodate all serious inquiries.

I'm gonna tell all yall somthin....


WHEN I WIN Tonight this whole issue will be solved.... there will be off roadin parks all over the nation and the dust haters will GET OVER IT...... I'd also buy some Avalanche Engeneering axles and.... ohh yea back to the question....

yea i've thought of it and If i make good money i plan on tryin to start somethin down the road aways in Eastern AL and Western GA..

Unfortunately, the Endangered Species Act kicks in even on private land. You can bet the eco-nuts would try to find some mouse or weed to shut you down if they wanted to.

But it is a great idea that will take hold as more & more public land is shut down.

Crowdog
Have you signed the petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/boxer/petition.html) to oppose more Wilderness Areas?

Rhino, i used to wheel at a place along the Wabash River in Lafayette, Indiana. when we started going there, the land was privately owned. they guy that owned it let his buddies 4-wheel it since there was really nothing else it was good for. the only rule was "clean up your mess". no trash or junk. if someone dumped out there, we would clean it up for him. anyway, he ended up turning the land over to the State under the conditions that they keep it open for 4-wheeling and put in a boat ramp. after the first couple months the state owned it, the cops started writing warning tickets for "spotlighting deer with off-road lights" and "leaving mud on a public highway" at the exit of the park. they always threatened to give real tickets. about a month later, they put up a gate and started locking it at 10pm. we just drove around it...then the sign came that said park closed at 10pm. we just quit going there. after talking to the previous owner, we found out his was really upset and had plans of taking the state to court over the matter. he was a big night fisherman and didn't like the ramp being closed at night. i ended up leaving Lafayette and don't know whats going on there now... matt

A guy over in Hot Springs just opened up a private land park.

www.orvpark.com

Seems like a good idea to me. Anyone ever been to this place?

Dan, I went to the Hot Spings park about 1 1/2 months after they bought it. It's Pretty nice. Its on the old Wyerhouser land, lots of rocks and mountain climbs and lots of trails, they have about 1200 acres and are hoping to add about 1800 in the next year or so. Its only 4 miles from downtown H.S. and the camping is only 1 mile away. They were still working on the maps and restrooms and pavilion so they still had a way to go but I hear they had their grandopening in March. I think they charge 25 a rig and that’s all day and all trails.

If you head that way send an e-mail, I’ll meet ya there.:bounce2: :bounce2: :bounce2:

Steve

i ended up leaving Lafayette and don't know whats going on there now... matt

I lived in West Lafayette for 12 yrs and just graduated from Purdue and moved away 8 months ago.

You're not supposed to wheel that place (Granville Bridge) anymore and if you get caught out there off the gravel you get a ticket.

They took down the gate and gravelled the area up to the boat ramp. if you go off that area you better hope there aren't any sheriffs around or you get a neat ticket.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Paragon Adventure Park in PA, that's one of the oldest and most successful privately-owned off road parks. They've hit on a very nice formula. First of all, they're ALWAYS cutting new trails, so that they offer a wide array of trails for *everyone*. This is the key to making money, we can be tearing our sh*t to pieces on the big rocks while families play on milder trails; ultimately, everyone pays, and this gives you as bigger market. Besides, having rock courses and mud bogs and forest drives attracts all segments of the four wheeling world. Cutting new trails is cheap for them because they work on a labor-exchange program. Come work on the trails, wheel for free for a certain number of days during the year. This attracts some of the local clubs, and they get cheap labor.

Second, while they make a lot of money from their "open weekends" (just show up and wheel), they also make excellent money from renting the place out for events. Some of the bigger clubs in the region hold their events there, and it's not uncommon to see 150+ rigs at one time. Considering the charge about $35 per truck plus an additional fee for additional per passenger, PER DAY, you can see how the money adds up.

Third, and this is where the real money is, they hold corporate events (like team building seminars and the like), usually during weekdays. I understand that they've also hosted companies like Land Rover to use some of the trails as test courses. This means the park is in use for a lot of days throughout the year, so the income doesn't come just during busy weekends. The park is also open year-round.

If this is well-planned and approached as a business, with business opportunities in mind, it can be done. If it's approached more esoterically, as a chunk of land for friends to come over and wheel, then chances are you'll never get your money back.

I'v thought about doing this in upstate NY where there are few legal trails, but utlimately don't think I could afford to leave my 9-5 job that puts food on the table to do it (at least not at this point, maybe when the baby grows up and is in school so my wife can work again).

As 60seriesguy mentioned, you have alot of business angles to cover if you want to actually make a viable full-time business out of it.

This guy did it:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~angelqt/track.htm

Pretty cool.

Crowdog
www.crowley-offroad.com