Avalance Engineering (terrible service AGAIN :mad:)

[Matt K]

Ok, I hate to do this again, but Avalanche is back at it.

Please read this to understand how this all started :mad3:
Post Reguarding First Problem w/ Avalanche Engineering (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28400&highlight=avalanche+engineering)


1st. I ordered a set or corners and rockers for a 94 YJ. The only thing I asked was that the wheel well openings for the corners be opened as large as possible. Sounds simple doesn't it....

I was told everything would ship in 2 weeks. So when I called after nothing arrived I was told several times, "We just need to drill a couple more holes", 1 more week goes bye bye... "We just need to drill a couple more holes", 1 more week goes bye bye. "Now only have to drill 2 more holes".... Ok.. Then I start getting upset. If you don't have them finished, just say so.....


Finally I start calling looking for Clifton, because I am getting no where with Curt. No nobody answers the phone. That is when I post here for the first time. After 2 days Clifton emails me and states the problem will be fixed and he apologized for any inconvenience and had the parts finished and shipped. I was disappointed, but I got some good quality parts that fit and looked good.

Now after painting and mounting the rockers and corners I was happy and had no hard feelings.
Everything Fits, take a look. (http://www.gotjeep.net/images/temp/DSC00807.JPG)

After a month or so, I decide to fix other problems, I will need to move my rear axle back 6 inches. Ok, I now need comp corners. So back to Avalanche. I sold my first set of corners to a friend. I called back Avalanche and ordered a set of comp corners for my jeep. I asked curt, are you sure there won't be any problems. He states "No all of the Comp Cut corners are the same nothing will have to be changed, There are no custom features on comp corners allowed. Everything is built to stock" So, shortly after placing my order the corners arrived. Quite impressed about the quick turnaround :)

Ok. So I got to mount the new comp corners. Yeah....

http://alien.drumgod.com/predator/corners/DSC00217.JPG

They don't match up. So back to call Avalanche. I call and talk to curt and let him know what happend. He seems shocked almost to the point of disbelief. Ok. So what are you going to do to fix this problem. He states that a talk with Clifton will be in order to figure out how this could happen. So. I patiently wait 1 more week for a phone call. I get a call from Clifton on my answering machine stating that they are off to the Eastern jeep safari and will be back in 1 week at which time they will fix this problem. He also stated that several other customer have had problems with their corners not keying together correctly and that a problem was found. So three weeks later, still no phone call. I cannot believe it. More calls to Avalanche. Now I get Curt again. He states to me. He will have to look into it and call me back. The next day I get a call from Avalanche. Curt says. "I looks like since you changed your order half way through, they will not fit." What? Change my order. What is he talking about. I never changed any order. I ordered rocker and corners, recieved and installed them. Now I bought new corners again. So I tell him to please talk to Clifton to figure this out, and call me back. Another week goes by still now calls. So I call again. Now Curt states the reason they don't fit is because I ordered TJ rockers and corners. No I didn't I ordered rockers and corners for a YJ If he took TJ parts and used those to fill my order fine. But I didn't order TJ parts for my YJ. Its not like they have some application chart that I could even look that up in. I called, told him what I needed and he placed the order. He then stated that he would have to talk to Clifton to see if they would take back the rockers and or corners for credit.
What are you kidding. You guys screwed this up and now you are checking to see if I am going to get credit for this order.. NO WAY.
Since dealing with curt seems to get me nothing but stories over the last couple of months, I decide to find Clifton. I try calling and asking for him, but he is never available, or always out of the shop. So I decided to email Clifton. But nothing... No calls back.. no responses to my email..... Actuall I sent many more emails with no responses either. I in all sent messages to them on the following dates and times explaining these problems.

March 19, 7:50 AM. Corners don't fit. Problem found
March 21, 2:29 PM. same message again.
April 4, 10:10 AM , same message again.
April 5, 7:37 AM . same message again.
April 5, 2:30 PM . same message again (just talked to curt said just about to check his mail)
April 8, 8:30 AM . same message again.

I NEVER RECIEVED 1 CALL or EMAIL RESPONSE TO ANY OF THESE EMAILS EITHER.


Ok. I am done with being nice and waiting for a phone call or a email response.


To Recap.. As to why my corners don't fit.

Story #1
Clifton, tells me that they discovered an error building
the corners after other customers call about corners
that don't fit either.


Story #2
Curt, first tells me that because I changed my order they don't fit.

Story # 3
Curt now states that because I ordered have TJ rockers and corners the comp corners will now not fit and he might be able to get me credit for something after talking to Clifton.




I will not accept a MAYBE we can give you credit on something we screwed up as a solution. :mad3:



I am extremely mad at this point. I just want a PHONE CALL within a reasonable amount of time. And an explanation as to why I keep getting stories about why nothing fits. And I want to either get my money back or get some parts that fit.


:mad3:

[Matt K]

Am I the only person having problems with these guys. I have been super patient with them. I have never called their upset or screaming, I am just tired of all the excuses and want some type of resolution.

Matt

[bigdude]

top

because that plain sucks, maybe post it in gen4x4 for a quicker response:beer:

[bigjeepinYJ]

Man I think that you have some serious ass explaining coming to you.

I will have to say one thing that I dont like is that when I called them there phone rings through to two different shops. So the second time that I called no-one knew what I was talking about.

Also I ordered beadlocks and they said that they had no record of a order. When I ordered my first set it sounded like the guy was playing a game of cards instead of listening to my order.

When I call them back I always talk to them but they never seem to get me a straight answer. He told me that they found my order in the computer, OK. I asked when they would start (I put my order in over a week ago). He said that he didnt know? Man I hate horror stories like this. I have to have these wheels done in 3 weeks. That is what they told me it would take. I have some doubts now.

[ExtremeCJ]

i ordered avalanche dana 44 high steer setup for my CJ last year and i had trouble also. i ordered their high steer arms and their tie rod and drag link. i got the arms and installed them then i called back and told them the measurements on the tie rod and drag link. i recieved those but the heims were the wrong size to fit the arms i had just recieved(overnight, i needed then fast). so i called back and they said that they were sorry and they were going to send the other set out. I told them i needed them ASAP, so i said i wanted them shipped out overnight. they said they could not do that so i would have to pay for the shipping. i was so pissed i almost sent everything back. well i paid the shipping and then i recieved the new heims. they also charged my CC the $140 value for the new heims and the shipping. then i had to pay for the shipping back to avalanche for the credit on the heims. so i was out overnight shipping for the new heims and the return shipping which totalled out to be almost $45. thats $45 that i should not of even paid for because it was their screw up. the product was great, but the customer service sucks.

[aaronlosey]

man that sucks. cliff is really a nice guy though, but talking to curt won't get you anywhere. cliff is in and out of the shop during the day time, if you just keep calling back and asking for him i'm sure you will eventually get him, and i would hope if you explained everything he would do something to fix the situation. avalanche is just super busy most of the time, so thats probably the problem, and they are kinda new to the mail order game. i don't want to be the guy blindly defending avalanche when they have done wrong, but i work with cliff on stuff sometimes and hes a really nice, straight forward guy. plus the 4xvideo shop is next door to avalanche, that helps. i would walk next door and ask cliff whats up, but i'm in texas right now doing family junk.

cliff also frequents this board, so he probably will find this thread.

[Matt K]

Originally posted by aaronlosey
man that sucks.
plus the 4xvideo shop is next door to avalanche, that helps. i would walk next door and ask cliff whats up, but i'm in texas right now doing family junk.

cliff also frequents this board, so he probably will find this thread.


Yeah, I know he is a member here. I have PM'd him several times. He never replies. He wont answer the phone, he wont respond to PM's. So I figure this is the only way to get his attention. Curt obviously doesn't find it necessary to bring thig matter up with Clifton, or neither of them care about this issue.
:mad3:

[KAcrawler]

ok well i ordered some tube and rod ends about 5 months ago and still can't get a damn receipt from them. i call about once every two weeks.

me: i stil don't have a f8ckin receipt
them: oh thats horrible
me: i have called before and still don't have one
then: well i am priniting one out now and will send it right away

yeah whatever, is it too much to ask for a damn receipt they sure as hell would want one if i wanted to return something. come to think if it im going to call them right now.

[CJ Lagos]

Hey matt,

Sorry to hear about the problems. I see where the mistake is. The piece of the corner that goes down and should hook into the rocker is too skinny. My corners had a much wider bottom part that would have filled the gap correctly. maybe you got old style rockers with new style corners.

One suggestion I have is if you can weld maybe you could just make the piece to fit on the bottom yourself, weld it and grind it smooth. It might take an afternoon but you'd be saving yourself some headaches with avalanche and get a resolution much quicker.

Good luck,
CJ

[Matt K]

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
Hey matt, Sorry to hear about the problems. I see where the mistake is. The piece of the corner that goes down and should hook into the rocker is too skinny. My corners had a much wider bottom part that would have filled the gap correctly. maybe you got old style rockers with new style corners. CJ

PS.. Nice Rig, have checked it out many times. :)


If I had a welder right now I would. But I am in the process of buying another. So thats not an option. I still think they should fix this problem. I have ordered a quite a few parts this Avalanche. All but 1 order was messed up quite a bit.

[bigjeepinYJ]

Originally posted by Matt K


PS.. Nice Rig, have checked it out many times. :)


If I had a welder right now I would. But I am in the process of buying another. So thats not an option. I still think they should fix this problem. I have ordered a quite a few parts this Avalanche. All but 1 order was messed up quite a bit.
Matt,

I see that you have a YJ. Are you saying that the piece that comes down should be thicker? If that is so could someone post what a correct one looks like. I think that they may have sent me the wrong ones also........AHHHHH!

[CJ Lagos]

Thanks Matt....


This isn't a very good picture but I think you can see the difference.

http://www.admotorsports.com/jeep.org/cjl-tj/old-misc/P1010036.JPG

CJ

[bigjeepinYJ]

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
Thanks Matt....


This isn't a very good picture but I think you can see the difference.

http://www.admotorsports.com/jeep.org/cjl-tj/old-misc/P1010036.JPG

CJ
Ok,
I see what that looks like. So are you saying that the thicker "teardrop" is needed on a TJ and the thinner on a YJ? I have the thinner for sure. It doesnt really matter to me because I am not ordering the Knockers, but should I have the thicker? Thanks alot for the pic.

[Jeepmangled87]

You guys are making me nervous, I just placed an order about a week and a half ago, no word back from Avalanche yet, I ordered a custom set of crusher corners, hope they do me right. I dont wanna get dicked around. I think that Avalanche dosent really give a fuck unless you are paying them to build a rock buggy. but maybe Im wrong.:skull:

[Matt K]

If anyone out there knows Clifton. Could you please have him read this post. I PM'd twice during the last week. And he doesn't appear to read them, or he doesn't respond. I don't trust Curt anymore. I hate to say it, but its true. :(

Matt

[Boston Mangler]

May i ask, "If you have some much beef and problem with them, then why on earth do you display their name in huge letters on your rig with the rocker guards"? I am guessing you bought and installed those before the beef right? I hope so!

I know how frustrating it is dealing with idiots. I went through this with Quadrashit when i first got my jeep and didnt know any better.

I have never bought or even called Avalanche but i can feel your pain man!

Get some new rockers for sure!!!

If they do you wrong, you sure as shit dont wanna advertise for em!

My .02

[CJ Lagos]

Matt,

I dont see why the YJ and TJ versions would be any different in terms of that teardrop or whatever it is called. My first guess is that they have redesigned the rocker/corner guard combo and the new rocker guards are a little bit longer, in turn they had to shorten the corners. I wonder if you got a set of old rocker guards and your new corners have the newest changes in them. I cut that teardrop thing off of mine when I painted them and I'm gonna build rockers that go the full length of the tub.

Either way you got a raw deal. I know the feeling all too well, seems like nothing goes smoothly.

Hopefully they'll take care of it for you.

CJ

[Honkylips]

May i ask, "If you have some much beef and problem with them, then why on earth do you display their name in huge letters on your rig with the rocker guards"? I am guessing you bought and installed those before the beef right? I hope so!

You know, I don't know why, but it always bothered my how they put their name all over everything they make. I'm sure you could get their stuff without their name on it, but anyway. I'd be pretty pissed off too If I was you. They sure charge tits money for their stuff, so i'd expect some good service to back that up to. In their defense, I haven't heard too much bad crap about them other than their $$. I've run into them on the trails now and then and they seem OK enough.

[aaronlosey]

holy crap CJ LAGOS, i clicked on your www under your post and saw a ton of pictures i took all over that site. its amazing how fast people steal junk on the web :flipoff2: its ok though, have fun.

[yjtj]

i never had a problem with there products or service, they were always quick to get me my stuff and it all fit perfect. i have there comp corners, rockers, d60 arms, tie rod and drag link. hers what the yj rockers and comp corners look like i got them last summer

[CJ Lagos]

aaron,

your probably the ones in the avalanche directory. It is just my personal picture collection, i can take them off if you want.

CJ

[aaronlosey]

don't delete them, keep them. i'm glad some bodies looking at them!! enjoy

[Tx Outlaw]

Damn! I was wanting to order their hi-steer arms and some suspension parts for my D60 conversion. Maybe I better re-think this.
What's another company (or individual) with high quality parts that would like my money? I did say high quality! :flipoff2:
Parts needed:
Hi-steer arms
Heims - probably use QA-1 again
Tube inserts - threaded for heims
I'm sure there'll be more

Thanks!

[Otis]

I just happened to be in the shop when you called Avalanche, and it sounds like there has been a misunderstanding. Hopefully everything will be resolved. However, in their defense, I walked in and out today with a 1.5" .25" wall DOM tie rod in less than half an hour. They even stopped work on one of thier buggies to help a schmoe like me out.
-Jon

[bgreen]

A member in our club is having similar problems with av. eng.

He ordered parts from them like 6 months ago, and they have been giving him the run-aroud ever since.

Also, when he bent one of their Hi-steer arms. They said that that had never happened before and that they would replace it for free. Still hasnt arrived and that was last summer!

I have only ordered from them once, but was not impressed with their customer service. :rolleyes:

[tigger4x]

I don't know how comparable Avalanche Eng. and High Angle are product wise ... but if even IF Avalanche had waaaay better prices than Jess, I wouldn't touch their shi@t with a 10 foot pole. If Clifton wants to have a jerk to fulfill his customer service arena He won't be getting any good press from me. Now that don't mean nothin' to him as I am a "nobody" in his world, but when all the rats start jumping ship you know things ain't right. Hell, even if he gave his stuff away like Jess does here on Pirate, I would have absolutley no faith whatsoever that I would ever get what I had supposedly won! I run a multi-million dollar facility that has heavy competition all around and everybody knows everybody. When I don't have something a customer needs I have a select few I will refer to and vice versa. Without customers a business is nothing. When I first moved out here on a corporate transfer I had one helluva uphill battle due to the previous sets of management. It took a ton of damage control and bringing out a whole new image and marketing strategy to overcome my predecessors stupidities. It has been a year and a half now and life is much better. Without superior customer service this location would have most likely been sold. I guess Clifton is counting on his high dollar ticket items to carry him along. And the little guys like us will just stand in the rain staring at the sky like turkeys while the rain pours down until we drown. I am one bag of feathers you won't mistreat!! What about you guys?!? You gonna stick around to be buried by the avalanche of customer NO service:confused:

:rantoff:

:beer:

[jslamerman]

Alot of people are runnin into this crap these days.The point of view from the companys angle is kinda "well, its a PRIVELEDGE for you to BUY parts from us", what a crock! Customer service is just as important to me as quality of the product, and if they are missing one, I wont do business with them. If all consumers would take this attitude, these business' would change their attitudes, or go out of business. Take note Avalanche, u just lost some customers! Hey, maybe it doesnt look like much now, but its kinda like a snowball rollin downhill.......:nuke:

[bigdude]

However, in their defense, I walked in and out today with a 1.5" .25" wall DOM tie rod in less than half an hour. They even stopped work on one of thier buggies to help a schmoe like me out.

Don't forget there can be a big difference in the kind of service you get when you're standing in front of someone vs. placing an order from a different location.

Sounds like they should've stopped work on one of their buggies a long time ago to help everyone from this thread.

I too was thinking of them to solve my steering for the 60. Now I will look elsewhere.

Anyone have a recommendation for Outlaw99TJ and myself:question:

[XR]

Seems like I should look elsewhere for my high steer parts.

[Matt K]

Originally posted by Otis
I just happened to be in the shop when you called Avalanche, and it sounds like there has been a misunderstanding. Hopefully everything will be resolved. However, in their defense, I walked in and out today with a 1.5" .25" wall DOM tie rod in less than half an hour. They even stopped work on one of thier buggies to help a schmoe like me out.
-Jon

Otis, you were in Avalanches shop when who called?

Just curious ???

I was hoping since Clifton frequents this board he may care to respond to some of these problems. He was on the boards
4/16/2002 @ 8:00AM
4/16/2002 @ 4:15PM
I don't recal exactly when but he was on serveral times during the last few days as well.

Maybe not enough people are complaining yet?

[Matt K]

Originally posted by XR
Seems like I should look elsewhere for my high steer parts.

Good, I am glad that Avalanche will be able to :emb: SEE :emb: that shuffling me under the rug is not going unheard. Wake up guys you are starting to loose customers.

[Matt K]

Does anyone know where Clifton is, if someone could point him to this thread and let him know what is going on I would appreciate it. Calling and talking to Curt does nothing....

[skinny]

move this to the general board to so everybody can see it not just us jeep guys..and maybe clifton will have a better chance of seeing it there also:D

[Matt K]

Originally posted by Matt K

Maybe not enough people are complaining yet?


I was hoping since Clifton frequents this board he may care to respond to some of these problems. He was on the boards

BRUISER-42 Last online:


4/16/2002 @ 8:00AM
4/16/2002 @ 4:15PM
4/17/2002 @ 11:02AM (he was on again, still no response)

I am not going to keep calling Avalanche asking for Clifton, I never get through and I end up on hold for 20minutes to 1 hr. Waisting money calling long distance. I should buy these guys an answering machine or send them the $5/month for a voice mail service :flipoff2:

[D60]

Are you guys dealing w/the Denver store or Gem Village store? Or someone said it rings thru to either so maybe you don't know? I live next to the Gem Village store, Pat there is a complete loud-mouth ass, other than that the guys are ok. Steve Rumore will go out of his way to help you. But like many of you have said, if you're not wanting to buy a turn-key buggy they don't care much about you.

[Jeepmangled87]

Called them yesterday and cant get ahold of a single person to check on my order of my crusher corners. What the deal there customer service blows!:rolleyes:

[MtnBkr]

If you want more exposure try posting under "General Chit Chat" on www.Colorado4x4.org

[BossBuilt]

Glad I caught this thread!
I was saving $2K for some coil overs I was going to buy from Avalanche.
When I called I could feel the lack of care an customer service and I was concerned that I would be mistreated.
Nobody should be treated like that and I won't.
I guess this confirms my instincts were right,... so I'll look elsewhere.
-Kerry Boss

[JeepinIan]

Try this shop for hi-steer arms.
Davids a real good dude. He was the pres of my Jeep club when he lived down here. Chances are he'll work w/ you on anything that you want.
www.metalfusionfab.com

[BillaVista]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet

I LOVE it when we gang up on mo-fo's who treat people like ass, especially little people.

Remember the Redline fiasco......all the defenders and such. Ha...look what happened to that guy.

Justice...I love it.

Be warned...I don;t care how special you *think* you are...treat people poorly and it WILL bite you.

Power to the people!

MattK....can you hire Bigdude to...*ahem* go over there and ...*cough* negotiate for you :-)

Do OTT industries do D60 steering stuff?

Do a search, or start in the links on my steering page (it's D44, but many companys do both) there are LOTS of alternatives.

[bigdude]

MattK....can you hire Bigdude to...*ahem* go over there and ...*cough* negotiate for you :-)

All he would have to do is ask :skull:

Matt K took a weekend out of his time shortly after I met him to help me complete my first axle swap. He pretty much runs a charity garage for Jeeps at his house

Matt's Garage (http://www.gotjeep.net/matts.html)

I hate to here about anyone getting f-cked over, but Matt is one of my best friends and to see his patience run out says a lot. I would've been posting and pissed much sooner than him.

The way they are treating this matter is bullshit, plain and simple. If I lived near them I'b have been in there already asking for an explanation :vader2: style

[Bgcj5]

Just to show another side to them when I ordered my High steer arms they were very carefull in listening to me and what I wanted and the person on the phone spent a good half hour on the phone with me answering all my questions. I ordered them and the arms showed up the day before they were susposed to. I have had nothing but good service from the several times I have called with questions. This was the Denver store if that makes any difference.

[bart]

You can get Hi-Steer and armor from Dave at www.xtvengineering.com He has made buggies and bolt ons. He sells a lot of coil overs, as well. Just an option to some of you that are going somewhere besides Avalanche.

-Bart

[BRUISER-42]

Matt and everyone, This is Clifton. I did not relize that you were being ignored Matt, I' am very sorry that you were. That was not our intention. Getting hold of me through the E-mail can be difficult, I receive 10 to 40 everyday. Somtimes I will miss some, not because I don't care. I just do not have the time I would like to to respond to everyone. When we I first heard of your problem we had a couple of corners optoins switched around on two orders. I thought this had somthing to do with your delima, and we made a new set of corners. I then recieved the pictures and reserched your parts history. Several moths ago you ordered YJ corners with a special wheel well opening, and rockers. Your rockers were the YJ with TJ flare variety. This means the front of the rocker is shorter and has a steeper angle on the front edge, the same with the rear. Your new corners are competition cut style, with your prexcisting rockers, and we have never built this particular combonation. I have plotted the new program, and have your corners as first priority. This was all happening without the knowledge of this post. It is our fault that this was not relayed to you, and you can count on me taking care of you just like the last time we had a problem. It is very discouraging to hear that so many of you feel we are some big headed Co. that only cares about our buggies. I could not imagine anyone could get that impression if they spoke directly to Steve or I. I apologize for Pat, he can come across in a short tone. We are not some big corprate that just cares about our margines and our next trip to Mexico. I can explain alot of our lack of customer service is due to being busier then we can handle lately. I'am totally aware of the problem and I' am very, very sorry that this has effected our service. It will improve greatly in the month to come. All of us appreciate your buisness a great deal, and
again greatly appreciate your patience on us getting our sh*t together while we are growing. Matt I will call you tommarow, Clifton :jeep:

[Tx Outlaw]

That's what I call taking responsibility. I'd like to know if everything comes thru and gets taken care of in a timely manner. Like I said, I'm in need of some parts......... I like what I saw on their site.

[Matt K]

Clifton,

I am very dissapointed in Avalanche as a whole. Not just any one individual. Your products are very welll built and have always pleased me. Unfortunetly I am extemely tired of the run around I have been getting from all of the 4x4 shops I have to deal with.

During the last 4 months I have ordered some big $$$$ parts from 10 different shops. Of which only 2 got the order correct and shipped to me ontime, the same two shops are run by the guys who put in the hours and call people back and keep in touch with their customers. Both of these shops are members of this board and they know what it takes to be succesfull. These guys call you back when something goes wrong. If you leave a message on their machine. THEY CALL YOU BACK. I really appreciate that. And because of that service I send all of my friend towards those shops.

Everybody else including Avalanche topping the sh*t list have terrible customer service. I was told so many times that I would recieve a call back. But they never came. I was told SO many stories, some unbelieveable. If you don't want to come across as insensative to your customers needs then .....

1. get your self an answering machine so people can leave messages. And don't have to call long distance 20 to 30 times a day to get a hold of you. Your customers are on hold too long when I have to wait 20minuts to 1 hr sometimes to find out your not around.

2. If you really do care, take care of these problems yourself before they get out of hand like this did. I have been waiting for a call from you for over a month.

3. Keep in touch with your customers and show them that their patronage is appreciated, instead of forcing me to creat a SH*T list so as to get your attention.

4. If you do screw up an order, come on and say it. The thing that I hate the most is BS that people spew because they think an excuse is in order. I would rather that someone call and tell me that they screwed up my order and built it wrong. Its going to be another 4 weeks. People appreciate HONESTY. Not BS strories.


At this point maybe you guys should focus on taking care of some of the other members of this list who obviously have some problems with your products and services. And let these guys know you care as well so things don't get any worse.

[Boston Mangler]

Well Said Matt!

[bigjeepinYJ]

Clifton,
I would have to suggest some sort of answering machine. I know that I have racked up $30-40 on calls out your way. Now take for granted that once I get ahold of you all my answer is found quickly, but the time on hold kills me. Most other places have a answering machine to combat this.

Again Thanks for Coming on and Aswering Matt's questions.

[JeepinIan]

Originally posted by BRUISER-42
...It is our fault that this was not relayed to you, and you can count on me taking care of you just like the last time we had a problem. It is very discouraging to hear that so many of you feel we are some big headed Co...I apologize for Pat, he can come across in a short tone. We are not some big corprate...I'am totally aware of the problem and I' am very, very sorry that this has effected our service. It will improve greatly in the month to come....

I just want to know what you plan on changing that by next month it will all be cleared up. I don't mean to sound like an a$$, but when someone states that they are given BS answers, on hold for an hour, don't get call backs, it sounds like you need some definate customer relations personel. I know that a small outfit has a hard time justifying the cost of someone to be in the offic, that knows what the business is, doesn't relay BS to the customer, and gets back to them in a resaonably short time, but future business will depend on it.
I, for one, will wait to see what comes of this before I order the parts that I was going to order from you guys.

[BossBuilt]

I too would like to hear about the outcome of this Mat...

I must say clifton (and I'm not speaking for anyone else) my business will have to be earned,even if the outcome for Mat is good I would never stand for getting the run around as he has showed incredible patients,I would have never went back a second time.
Good Luck Mat.
-Kerry Boss

[tigger4x]

CLIFTON, I don't know the actual names of your employees, but who is Pat?!? Matt was talking about some guy named Curt who kept him at arms length and was feeding him lame-a$$ excuses as to why the parts he had ordered were still not finished, as well as not having his calls returned. I don't know about you and your time, but I don't have any to waste to babysit a company who has taken my money and not delivered and also by having to call, and call, and call, and ultimately be ignored. I don't know who "Curt" is to you personally, but professionally I'd fire him and fast!!! Especially if you are relying on him to handle your Customer Service aspects. You absolutely have to have a reliable person handling these matters and they have to have the utmost integrity. I know it takes some time to turn around a bad situation, but some hard and concise decisions have to be made real quick. I went through the same situation here at my facility a year and a half ago. I may not own the company like you do, but I run it as if it was mine and my reputation on the line. My employees either conform or I can find ones that will. Customer Service is paramount and they know it, employee and customer alike. There will always be a whiner in the bunch but that is life. Some people just can't be pleased. I am know overseeing two facilities and am feeling a bit beyond stretched thin. I have employees to oversee, vendors to regulate, customers by the bunches to please, bills to be paid, inventory to stock and keep track of, and collections to make. The products you and I deal with may be different, but that would be were the maority of differences would end. I would love to transition into the 4x4 products arena in operations and management just because it would be something I have a true love for. Don't get me wrong, I give my employer 110% and make the necessary sacrafices but if it was 4x4 related I'd be in heaven. Maybe I'll win the Powerball and jump into it. I hope your chages happen quickly and smoothly. Your products seem to have quite the durability factor and I had looked at what you have to offer for my rig. Knowing that I would be taken care of would be the only thing to sway me from going elsewhere.
I don't want you to think that i am bashing you personally, but rather hoping you can really make it right to those who have entrusted you with their money and giving them quality products they wanted when you promised. I wish you the best and hope you can truy pull this off. :beer:

[Boggerdust]

Matt, Let me know how they resolve this. I was ready to buy some of their stuff, but it's on hold now.

[peter33]

Matt is a good friend of mine and after reading all of this, I am amazed. Matt is the most easy going person you would ever meet. He knows what he is talking about and is very patient. For him to start this thread about Avalance's poor service is testament in itself as to how bad this has gotten. It's a complete joke. In all reality, I wouldn't order a damn thing from them ever. There are plenty of other shops around.

The part that is the most irritating is not being honest. He has been getting the run around about this forever. Even excusing the poor customer service, the unanswered emails, the no return calls etc... It's when you make up some BS excuse every time for why it's not right yet that is the worst thing. And it's a different excuse every time. I get the daily Avalance update from Matt. He just shakes his head and tells me the new excuse. At least be consistent in your excuses. But that is the problem in making stuff up too much. You forget what you said last time and the time before that and then you just look like a liar.

It is amazing how much patience Matt has had. And that is the funny thing. If they would just be straight forward and tell him the truth, he would be happy. It's not like he is waiting for a heart pump and needs it yesterday. If there is a problem, fess up to it and explain what is being done to correct and when the new part is expected to be finished and shipped.

[peter33]

Sunray Engineering could give Avalanche some lessons in how to run a 4x4 shop.

I had Sunray Engineering build me custom axles last year. 35 spline Ford 9s with 60 tubes etc... They were very up front in explaining that there was a waiting list of 12 weeks and how to get on the list. They were very up front in explaining that the wait would not be any shorter than that. They set the expectations very well. And then the best part. They met the expectations.

When I received my axles, there was a problem with the rear pinion angle. It was way off. Gerald at Sunray took immediate responsibility for the problem. He paid to have the axle shipped back to them. They fixed the problem in one day and had it back on the truck to me the next day. All told it took like 5 days to get the axle from Chicago to Texas, fixed and back to Chicago. It was awesome. And it was perfect. That's how you run a business. Even a 4x4 shop.

[Matt K]

I did find a message from Clifton on my voice mail this morning at work. He did state that he would get back in touch with me either here on the boards or via phone.

Matt

[BossBuilt]

Originally posted by peter33
Sunray Engineering could give Avalanche some lessons in how to run a 4x4 shop.

I had Sunray Engineering build me custom axles last year. 35 spline Ford 9s with 60 tubes etc... They were very up front in explaining that there was a waiting list of 12 weeks and how to get on the list. They were very up front in explaining that the wait would not be any shorter than that. They set the expectations very well. And then the best part. They met the expectations.

When I received my axles, there was a problem with the rear pinion angle. It was way off. Gerald at Sunray took immediate responsibility for the problem. He paid to have the axle shipped back to them. They fixed the problem in one day and had it back on the truck to me the next day. All told it took like 5 days to get the axle from Chicago to Texas, fixed and back to Chicago. It was awesome. And it was perfect. That's how you run a business. Even a 4x4 shop.
Peter,
I like that kind of service...Do they Have a web site?
-Kerry

[peter33]

No website. They claim to be plenty busy without having one. Their phone number is: 817-594-9201.

The other cool thing about them is that they actually take the engineering part of their name seriously. They sent me a detailed proposal initially, which helped a ton. Then, when the axles were shipped, they also sent me a complete listing of all the internal parts used, along with manufacturer and part number. This comes in very handy. The other day I had one of my axle shafts out and I screwed up a seal getting it back in. No problem. I pulled out the blueprint list and got the Timken part number, ran down to autozone and bought the seal. No down time.

[nmujeepin]

sounds like you found a decent shop....i always wished custom drivetrain parts would come with a parts list so you could fic them easier

[BillaVista]

Getting hold of me through the E-mail can be difficult, I receive 10 to 40 everyday.

You're kidding right ???? Jesus - I get that many a day from people having read my FREE website and looking for help. I just do it to help people for free...like others have helped me.

This is what you do for a living man, get some time management skills if you're missing emails out of 10-40 a day.

(BTW - does ANYBODY believe that?)

It is very discouraging to hear that so many of you feel we are some big headed Co. that only cares about our buggies. I could not imagine anyone could get that impression if they spoke directly to Steve or I

Well get over your dissapointment and get on with fixing it...yesterday! You may be dissapointed, you may be disbelieving...but there it is, right in front of you. That IS how folks are feeling, and it IS 100% your fault. You're the boss...fix it!


I apologize for Pat, he can come across in a short tone. We are not some big corprate that just cares about our margines and our next trip to Mexico. I can explain alot of our lack of customer service is due to being busier then we can handle lately.

No you can't. Don't care how fawking busy you are....nothing explains your lack of customer service (except incompetance or negligence). Stop making excuses and get on with fixing it. the customers are heading for the door...the old "we're a small shop growing" simply doesn't cut it. Your post reads like "we suck, I know we suck. I don't have the skill to do anything about it"

Look, I'm not trying to offend you, I'm actually trying to help you....in a brutal "intervention" kind of way. Take it or leave it, your call.

But for your sake, and the sake of your customers....get a grip:eek:

[tigger4x]

Thank You BillaVista !!!

That was just about everything I had tried to get across but sucked doing it. A :beer: for your words o' wisdom and truth!

I pray to God it works out Clifton! :)

[Johncm]

I have dealt with Avalanche with good results. the 2 times I called, they were very helpful and when I ordered my high steer arms, they came as promised.
Lets face it, nobody's perfect and the best of companies screw up. What diiferentiates the good and the bad is the good will step up to the plate. Clifton seems to do just that.
The company is fairly new, and believe me, growing pains hurt. It takes time to iron things out and make everything run smoothly. You don't just open up the doors and poof, you are a perfect company. It takes time. The smart ones learn and the others die.
Give him a chance. He makes a great product. That speaks for itself. That is the easy parts. Keeping the people happy takes more work.
Wish him luck and support him.

John

P.S. No, I do not know him. Just been there.

[Matt K]

Ok, everyone. Clifton emailed me late last night. It looks like he is really trying to fix our problems. He shipped the new corners and gave me the tracking #. I have asked Clifton to call me so that I may ask him what he is planning on doing to fix some of the problems that we have been having. Hopefully he will call and we can work out an understanding of what happened, and come to some resolution so that new and old customers can order without a similiar situation occuring again.

Clifton, thanks for taking care of this :)

To everyone reading this thread:

I hope I didn't come off as an A*S. I my mind I felt that I was not taken care of as a customer of AvalEngr. I felt my requests were fair and simple. I wanted to know what was going on with the products I purchased, and when things went wrong I wanted to know why, and how they would be resolved. I tried to contact Clifton to resolve these problems, but I was never allowed to get through to him or he simple wasn't there. I don't know. But I tried to give them a chance to fix this without this S**T list occuring.

Most of us wheelers are not just loner gear heads. (this may not apply to everyone :)). We typically have families and many other responsibilities. We all spend a lot of time and especially a lot of $$$$ to build and maintain our rigs. 99.9% of us don't have corporate sponsers, and don't run our own 4x4 shops. We rely on a very small but tightly knit community of 4x4 shops to create and come up with the products that BECOME our vehicles. When you spend in upwards of $800 for cosmetic upgrades like corners and rockers its definetaly hits the budgets bottom line. It seems to me that the owners of these shops tend to become desensatized from working in an environments where 4x4 parts are easy to obtain and labor is way cheap especially among friends and other shops towards each other. They seem to feel burnt out when answering questions and returning calls which to them seem obvious and trivial.
For the rest of us who write code for living, make cabinets, and work in chemical plants, our 4x4's are an escape from the boring day to day stuff. We work hard to get those top notch parts. The parts the the big dog shop owners test drive from their buddies 4x4 shops, are the parts I have to spend big $$$ to get.
Well that money has to come from somewhere, like putting off getting the new fence in your back yard you really need, and putting on new gutters which your house has not had since you bought a (0||||0). Or finishing a bathroom in your house which has had no drywall for the last 3 years.

We have to protect our money. We work hard to get it and deserve respect as customers. :usa:



Matt Klueppel
mklueppel@conwin.com

[BossBuilt]

RIGHT On Matt!
Glad he is taking care of you!
.....and what you just stated is sooo true,I spend a lot of time web wheeling now because I'm saving for parts for the frame up(frame included) and now I'm building an addition on the house that Just couldn't wait any longer(it was that or get rid of the wife:D ) and we no that's not going to happen.;) ...Every penny counts and time is very valuable to me.
So being yanked around is not at the top of my To Do list,let us know if it all works out to completion.

[doctor_G]

Matt, glad to hear things will probably get cleared up with you.
Thanks for posting this thread and drawing our attention to potential problems.
I'm going to hold off dealing with them for awhile to see if they can correct their serious customer service problem.

To BillaVista, :beer: 's to you bro. Well put and I completely agree.

To Clif, I can't tell you how to run your company. I can empathize that growing pains can be a bitch though.
Sounds as if you're into your defining moments and the decisions you make now can either make you or break you.
A word to the wise, If it where me, I would show Curt to the door with a size 14 shoe. :rolleyes:
Oh, and put in an answering machine, I mean, how hard is that!

[CJ Lagos]

Geez guys, cut them some slack. Cliff got on here and didn't blame anyone for anything, he just said he knows they have some problems and he is gonna work on it. Give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know what is going on and a chance to make things right which it looks like he has.

CJ

[mtndewmaniac]

A lot can happen to a growing company. I wouldn't say that there is a management problem, but more of a time management shortage. I have read ALL the posts from this thread, as well as from the General Chit-Chat thread, and to me it seems that these guys (Avalanche Engineering) simply have WAY TOO MUCH going on for them to remain efficient in customer service. These guys not only have to find the time to produce their products, they also have to find the time to answer phone calls, take orders, post orders for supplies, ship orders, handle customer service, look on the computer to read Emails and thread posts, pay bills, (what have I missed?) Simply put, these guys just need more knowledgable and experienced help. If I could work for these guys, I would feel like a kid in a toy store. But my fabbin skills are much to be desired. I have worked for several Auto Parts Stores for the past 13 years, so I have seen both sides of the fence.
I feel for Avalanche, as well as for the customers, so I hope that we all can come to terms and get our problems resolved.
johncm states this very well, and I hope that others can feel the same as I do.

[BossBuilt]

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
Geez guys, cut them some slack. Cliff got on here and didn't blame anyone for anything, he just said he knows they have some problems and he is gonna work on it. Give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know what is going on and a chance to make things right which it looks like he has.

CJ
I realize nobody is perfect. But I have options and customer service is a big factor when dealing with me.
Being treated like my time isn't as important as their time means I loose..
The only way I can verify that a company is going to treat me right is to do some research on the company I'm dealing with.
Do to the fact I was about to drop 2K with this company I am very interested in Currant transactons and dealings such as Matt's sitiuation.
I want to know how it is handeled to the end.

Cut them some slack...I don't think so! :(...admittedly I wasn't as harsh as the others but they are right,....some companies need tough love.;)
If they would have Just explained there situation instead of burying it with excusses I would blow it off as human error. and patiently wait for my corners.

[Mr.RatBastard]

Worse than a growing business is a shrinking business.
My tips , for free :D :
Do not BS a customer!!!!
You may have great products you think no one can do withtout (you would be wrong)
Word of mouth advertising is worth more than a fortune 500 co. can afford ( and just as detrimental )
ex. of why bs is stupid...@a 4X4 shop I worked at ,The guy running the counter would tell a customer there truck would be ready by lunch ( knowing fully well that was impossible ) The customer would end up getting their truck by 6 o'clock if they were lucky ( highly upset by then ) IF he would have told them their truck would be ready in the morning ,and then called to say it was ready at 6, the customer (the people that pay you) would have been Very happy ! The truck being ready at the same time either way, but.....

[tigger4x]

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
Geez guys, cut them some slack. Cliff got on here and didn't blame anyone for anything, he just said he knows they have some problems and he is gonna work on it. Give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know what is going on and a chance to make things right which it looks like he has. CJ Put your heart and soul and every waking moment you have into customer service FIRST!!! ... :rolleyes:then spew that again would ya?!?

Originally posted by Mr.RatBastard
ex. of why bs is stupid... @ a 4X4 shop I worked at ,The guy running the counter would tell a customer there truck would be ready by lunch ( knowing fully well that was impossible ) The customer would end up getting their truck by 6 o'clock if they were lucky ( highly upset by then ) IF he would have told them their truck would be ready in the morning ,and then called to say it was ready at 6, the customer (the people that pay you) would have been Very happy ! The truck being ready at the same time either way, but ...you have one ecstatic customer who's gonna be tellin EVERYBODY you're da :nuke:

[JeepinIan]

Originally posted by mtndewmaniac
...more of a time management shortage. ...simply have WAY TOO MUCH going on for them to remain efficient in customer service...find the time to produce their products, they also have to find the time to answer phone calls, take orders, post orders for supplies, ship orders, handle customer service, look on the computer to read Emails and thread posts, pay bills, (what have I missed?) ...

Personally, I don't think that they really need any help in the shop, they need some help in the office. If they get a person who is a mechanic, and doesn't want to turn wrenches for a living anymore, has a working knowledge of computers, can answer questions intelligently, has good customer relations abilities, and can think for themselves in handking most customer questions, then the people who are producing the actual product, can continue to produce.
Sometimes, lack of personel can hurt worse than the paycheck that they recieve.
Part of my job is to help customers in thier quest for repairs and answer all the questions I have the ability, and authority, to handle. I do have the authority to call the customer back w/ updates on thier repairs, forward the questions to the appropriate personel that can handle thier questions, ro any other decision that I have to make to keep the customer informed.
PS, letting a customer know that I do not know the answer, but will get back to them at such & such a time & date, then GETTING BACK W/ THEM AT THAT TIME, will prevent people from being so upset. Most people understand that sh!t happens, just let them know the truth & keep them in the information loop.

[tigger4x]

Here once again to chime in and this time agree with JeepinIan completely. What do you do for a living Mtndemaniac:confused: Cuz IMHO you would be one of those in the high percentage of new businesses that would fail in the first two years, if not sooner. And before you get all :mad3: ... I pratice what I preach and have been rather successful at what I'm doing. Prior to this I owned and ran a paging and cellular company. The only reason why I am doing what I am now was due to 2 :rainbow:weasely rat fawks for partners that ganged up on me in the shadows and screwed me to the tune of $60K!:flipoff: Before all the BS happened, my business was 110% based on customer service and was never sacrificed, EVER! Shiat! We were one of the proverbial types that started out of a 1 bedroom apartment and then into a storefront with major exposure. Anywho, I am fully rooting for Clfton to see iffin he can pull his tail outta the fire and end up smelling like a rose. (business wise you :bender: lovers :flipoff2: ) :laughing::laughing::laughing:

[mtndewmaniac]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tigger4x
[B]Here once again to chime in and this time agree with JeepinIan completely. What do you do for a living Mtndemaniac:confused: Cuz IMHO you would be one of those in the high percentage of new businesses that would fail in the first two years, if not sooner. And before you get all :mad3: ... QUOTE]

Luckythat I have thick skin.....

You may have misread, or misunderstood me, or maybe I misstated it .
Customer service was ALWAYS my #1 priority, PERIOD. I have worked in the Auto Parts Sales for nearly 13 years now, I have received bonuses, promotions, and even letters of recommendations, all due to being very customer oriented. (I am no longer in the field, due to advancing my education) I have had SEVERAL return customers who would strictly only come to me first. They even brought their friends with them.
I'm not :mad3: for your comment, in fact, in the future, I'll try to choose my wording a little better.:D

Good customer service will ALWAYS lead to a successful business.

[tigger4x]

Good frame of mind Bruddah! I hafta say I could have misread you as well. I didn't mean to come off half cocked and spout like a :clown:. :beer:

[Matt K]

Ok, I talked to Clifton last night. He explained to me the sequence of events that led up to all of the problems. He explained what happened and why. He apologized for not calling back to inform me of the status of my order. Had that been done, none of this would have occured.

Clifton also stated that several new phone lines were being installed as well as an answering system. :beer:

My new corners are too arrive in the next several days. I hope they all fit and am pretty sure they will.

Plain and simple truth.. If they kept any NOTES about custumers this never would have happened.

Well I guess this was a good lesson for them.

Matt

[bigdude]

Plain and simple truth.. If they kept any NOTES about custumers this never would have happened.


Sound like someone needs a simple spreadsheet with each customer name, order, status, and next action step (call, ship, bill, etc.), and date for that action

You could have a neat little calender reminder like the ones from Outlook. Everytime I have a meeting I hear Cartman say "hey"

[mtndewmaniac]

All's cool tigger4x.:cool2: I understand that frame of mind being there myself.

MATT K- I am glad to see that you're at a resolve. Seems to me it takes Clifton to come to the rescue. He seems to be a really cool dude. Which location is he located out of? (I'm thinking Bayfield)
I'm sad to see that it took extreme measures to bring this situation to light, but sometimes it does take a serious wake-up call.
HOPE ALL GOES WELL WITH ALL INVOLVED PARTIES.

At a couple of my jobs, I use to use a college ruled notebook to keep up with my daily events. This proved to be very useful when trying to remember what I have ordered, who it was from, my cost and list price, and expected delivery date. I'll have to admit this was not as efficient as anything else could have been, but it sure kept my butt out of hot water.:D

[Matt K]

Ok, I recieved the new corners from Avalanche. Unfortunetly on my way home I was hit by a drunk driver. Well I guess he had a bit too much :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: for this guy on his trip home. After chasing him for several miles. I was able to get his plates and call his dumb ass in. :flipoff2:

So I didn't have time to check the fit of the new corners. I will do that tonight and let you know how everything fits.

Matt

[nmujeepin]

dude you are having some shitty luck....i sure hope that jeep o yers turns out good from all the shit you had to go through to get all the parts andwhat not....good luck man and dont forget we like pics :D

[ashmanjeepXJ]

Originally posted by BossGrip
Glad I caught this thread!
I was saving $2K for some coil overs I was going to buy from Avalanche.
When I called I could feel the lack of care an customer service and I was concerned that I would be mistreated.
Nobody should be treated like that and I won't.
I guess this confirms my instincts were right,... so I'll look elsewhere.
-Kerry Boss

There coil overs were my plan too,
Let me know when you find a good distributor for some dual rate coil overs! I thought Avalance had a good price on there coil overs...

Id like to know how your project goes.

[Steve N]

I'm glad to see this all worked out. I have been on the same trail as Steve. And have spoken to Clifton as well as many of the guys at Avalanche. They are stand up guys. I feel the pains, of both business and the customer. Our customer service sucked big time, due to a lack of enough staff. Now from time to time we goof up, but so does everyone. I knew this one would have a happy ending. Good luck Matt, watch out for D.D's.

[BossBuilt]

Originally posted by ashmanjeepXJ


There coil overs were my plan too,
Let me know when you find a good distributor for some dual rate coil overs! I thought Avalance had a good price on there coil overs...

Id like to know how your project goes.

Hi Ash,
I'll let you know.. I'm still looking. I may do something a little more exotic than coil overs before it's over...
I just need to get the wife of my ass about the sun room addition. I have to do it myself because the contractors want My Jeep money too....

[Matt K]

Ok everyone, the new corners fit, at least the side that I put up did. I really don't want to praise Clifton for getting this fixed, because this should not have happened in the first place.

I am just glad everything got taken care of. I hope nobody else has these problems in the future with Avalanche.

Matt

[Flip1YJ]

Originally posted by jslamerman
.The point of view from the companys angle is kinda "well, its a PRIVELEDGE for you to BUY parts from us", what a crock!

Couldn't have said it better!

I remember a study/survey that I read years ago, and it concluded that most people will gladly pay an adverage or %20 more for the same or comparable product if it comes with superlative customer service. I haven't priced Avalance, but it sounds like they are up there in terms of pricing. Seems to me there must be other companies offering comparable product for the same or maybe even less without the BS.

[KAcrawler]

damn newbie do you realize you posted 2 1/2 months after this thread had died nobody cares any more

[Alaska ZJ]

I here you brother. I have ordered one thing from Avalanche. A rear diff guard with a tri mounting tab.

It took them forever to ship it even though they said it was right on the shelf every time I called. It took them 3 weeks to ship a instock part.

When I got it. The welding on the back side looks like a bird shit on it. Actually it looks like they painted it and then welded it with thier eyes closed on the lowest setting the welder has.

Terrible. I called them about it. I could ship it at my cost to them to reweld. NO. I asked them to pay for a welder to weld it properly. They said NO, I don't blame them really cause I would have just done it myself and charged them.

Basically they sold me a 150 dollar piece of shit that I have to reweld to make right.

All that time spent counter sinking the bolts should probably be spent on a welding lesson or two.

I will NEVER buy anything from Avalanche again. Mostly because of thier customer service but some is due to thier lack of attention to detail.

[Flip1YJ]

Originally posted by swamper502
damn newbie do you realize you posted 2 1/2 months after this thread had died nobody cares any more If nobody cares than why the hell are you worried about it :flipoff2:

[Josh 89XJ]

Now I'm not trying to be an ass here but it looks to me like Clifton and the boys need to make a new hire. If you are all always busy to the point of long hold times, difficultly for customers to get answers, etc. then you have outgrown your current staff. I've seen it far too many times. A company makes a name for themselves and their workload increases accordingly. Wanting to keep things the way they were, the owner(s) try to manage with minimal staff. Everyone is working too hard and shit starts to get screwed up. Hire someone with good people skills to man the phones and take orders. They aren't that expensive.

When you own your own business, the key is to do what you do best. I knew one person that was a truely gifted salesman who could motivate and talk people into anything he wanted. However, he was a terrible manager of some of businesses and ended up making massive mistakes that shouldn't have been made. A $15/hr bookkeeper and a $20/hr manager would have literally saved him millions and allowed the business to grow as it should have. Just something to think about.

[aaronlosey]

man, this thread needs to die, it looks bad. fist of all, cliff did hire someone new to help out in the front of the shop, scooter. next, millions? yall have no freaking idea what your talking about. avalanche is a great shop and they do alot of business, but they aren't that big. i suppose its great they have the image of being huge though. he is just a small shop with big plans that is really trying, so before you bad mouth them, know what the fuck your talking about. matt complained about something because he had first hand experience, then they fixed the situation. your just bitching to pad your post count.

second of all, i think customers screw vendors far more than vendors screw customers. as a small business owner you would know that you probably will only collect on maybe 90% of the work you do, thats just the way it works. sometimes its much worse.

and i'm only defending cliff because every purchase i have ever made from avalanche has been perfect, to my door within a week or so, and the quality is outstanding. they are only more expensive because the parts are that much better.

anyways, delete this stupid thread so we don't have to see it anymore. i think its been damaging enough as it is.

[Josh 89XJ]

No I'm not bitching to pad my post count, and I think you may have misinterpreted my post. I was speaking in generalities regarding nearly any business that experiences large growth in a relatively short period of time. The example I gave involved someone losing a business and around 2 mil because they failed to hire enough people to handle the demand. I don't recall ever saying that Clifton handled multi-million dollar deals. Again, just generalities and examples that apply to many businesses.

I hear you on the customers stiffing vendors. I've been doing freelance consulting for a while and yeah, I get stiffed from time to time. Breaks of the game.

Glad to hear Clifton had hired a new guy, I wasn't aware of that. One of the guys I wheel with was actually just complaining to me that the parts were top notch, but he wasn't happy with the service.

[Alaska ZJ]

Originally posted by aaronlosey
man, this thread needs to die, it looks bad. fist of all, cliff did hire someone new to help out in the front of the shop, scooter. next, millions? yall have no freaking idea what your talking about. avalanche is a great shop and they do alot of business, but they aren't that big. i suppose its great they have the image of being huge though. he is just a small shop with big plans that is really trying, so before you bad mouth them, know what the fuck your talking about. matt complained about something because he had first hand experience, then they fixed the situation. your just bitching to pad your post count.

second of all, i think customers screw vendors far more than vendors screw customers. as a small business owner you would know that you probably will only collect on maybe 90% of the work you do, thats just the way it works. sometimes its much worse.

and i'm only defending cliff because every purchase i have ever made from avalanche has been perfect, to my door within a week or so, and the quality is outstanding. they are only more expensive because the parts are that much better.

anyways, delete this stupid thread so we don't have to see it anymore. i think its been damaging enough as it is.

Good to hear you have good experience with Avalanche. I didn't and therefore want everyone to know about it before wasting thier $$ on shiat.

Customer service SUCKS!! Products that I have ordered (and have seen that others order) SUCK. Plain and simple. They half assed the assembly of a Diff cover for crying out loud! Not that big of a deal, some would say, but not ME!

If they cannot put a diff cover together correctly why should ANYONE buy something that their life could count on! Steering components? Axles? Suspension components?

I doubt anything they make is as good as they are charging. Look at the price they are charging for the diff cover? 143 bucks. Spend tons of time cutting it out of 3/4 steel and counter sinking the bolts. Then the chew up some wriggly's and squish it on to hold the rig protector on? Come on....That is pure lazyness. Takes just as long to make a good weld as it does a bad one. Only takes about a tenth of a second to realize when your making a bad weld.

Avalanche is pure shit. And I for one am very happy to share my opinion and keep this thread alive.

I bet you have Stockton Beadlocks as well? Dipshit.

[bigdude]

Originally posted by Alaska ZJ
And I for one am very happy to share my opinion and keep this thread alive.

I bet you have Stockton Beadlocks as well? Dipshit.

Bawahahahahaha :laughing:

oh, and well said too :D

[Steve N]

This thing was two and a half months ago.

It's over if you don't like a vendor don't buy from them.

There's more than one side to any story. As a vendor I just got done writing a letter to the credit card company explaining why a seemingly drunken customer that broke every rule on our return policy while returning his electrical part shouldn't get a refund and should be happy with a store credit. No ones perfect not you or a vendor. I've had customers complain about things that were wrong with stuff that unless you had a time machine to go back and buy a perfect original one there was no way they were going to get something better. They're still searching thinking everyone's else is fawked up. :rolleyes:

I wish people would stop whining about subjective crap. Take it to JU.