New/Newb Welding Help

[JeepJam]

Hi All,
I've recently purchased a small welder (115V wire).
I learned to weld a couple years ago on a big 'ole Miller MIG. I realize that things will be a bit different with the 115 flux I'm starting out with, but I'm just not sure I'm getting welds that are useable.
Here's what I've got.
From right to left, all welds were done with the settings on high.
I started with a wirespeed of 5, then went to 4 & finally 3.
I ground the paint off before I began, then ran out of clean space.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/1stWelds.jpg
Here's the welder.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/Welder.jpg

So waddaya think. Do they look okay for flux core?
Do I have something set wrong?

Thanks in advance for your help.
-Chaz

[JeepJam]

Okay, I went out to practice some more & my first welds may not have been as poor as I thought. But, I don't know.
Here's what they looked like from the back.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/1stWeldsBackside.jpg

I cut off some of the stake, ground off all the paint & welded it back to the stake.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/PracticeWelds02.jpg

I'm totally amazed at how much splatter there is.
I didn't do a good job of lining up the two pieces at all, so that's a pretty big fill weld.

Then I hammered it apart. I was pretty suprised that I couldn't break it apart by swinging it against the concrete, but it only took two swings to break the weld with the hammer.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/HammeredWeld.jpg

Thanks again,
Chaz

[HalfFastFord]

"but it only took 2 swings to break the weld with the hammer"

you've answered your own question, you're not getting enough penetration.
you're going to get a lot of splatter from flux core, nature of the beast.
you didn't say whick wire diameter you're using, but that looks pretty thin, even for flux core. A thicker flux core may work better for you. If you can get a gas setup, get one when you can aford it. It makes for much better welds IMO.

[JeepJam]

"but it only took 2 swings to break the weld with the hammer"

you've answered your own question, you're not getting enough penetration.
you're going to get a lot of splatter from flux core, nature of the beast.
you didn't say whick wire diameter you're using, but that looks pretty thin, even for flux core. A thicker flux core may work better for you. If you can get a gas setup, get one when you can aford it. It makes for much better welds IMO.

Hey HalfFast, thanks for the input.

About the splatter...that's kinda what I thought.

What is it that would give me better penetration (besides a bigger welder)?

I'm using .035/0.9 wire (I think I got the measurements right inches/mm)

I practiced a little more & here's the result...

Again, I cleaned off all the paint.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/PracticeWelds03Prepped.jpg

This time I made sure the two pieces aligned better.
Weld side
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/PracticeWelds03Alignment.jpg
tack side
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/PracticeWelds03AlignmentTack.jpg

Then, I tacked it.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/PracticeWelds03Tack.jpg
& here's how it looked after the tack.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/PracticeWelds03Tacked.jpg

The weld looks worse to me.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/PracticeWelds03.jpg

BUT...
This time, even though I broke it with one blow of the hammer. It was the metal that broke, not the weld. It looks like this is just horrible metal (I didn't think it was high quality). Maybe what's referred to as 'pig iron'?
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/PracticeWelds03Hammered.jpg
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/PracticeWelds03HammeredClose.jpg

I'm going to go & try something with some better metal & see what I get.

Thanks again!
-Chaz

[kwrangln]

Try taking some pics up close so we can actually see the weld, then we can offer advice on technique. Make sure the pics show the shape of the weld, pattern's in the weld surface, etc, real up close stuff. What you've posted so far is like trying to id a needle across a field.

[PsychoticDeadGuy]

To help, clean your welds after with a wire wheel or brush. the first weld looked like they penetrated good but its hard to tell with dirty metal. The destructive test is good to see whats working for you. Try going slower, keep the settings and see if you go slow enough you can burn through the metal. If you can see you penetration on the other side of the metal thats good. You will usually need a couple passes to have a strong weld with flux core 115v welding, but you can get it to hold.

[JeepJam]

Try taking some pics up close so we can actually see the weld, then we can offer advice on technique. Make sure the pics show the shape of the weld, pattern's in the weld surface, etc, real up close stuff. What you've posted so far is like trying to id a needle across a field.

Cool, I'll do that tomorrow.
Thanks.

To help, clean your welds after with a wire wheel or brush. the first weld looked like they penetrated good but its hard to tell with dirty metal. The destructive test is good to see whats working for you. Try going slower, keep the settings and see if you go slow enough you can burn through the metal. If you can see you penetration on the other side of the metal thats good. You will usually need a couple passes to have a strong weld with flux core 115v welding, but you can get it to hold.

I started cleaning up some welds on better material & I think I like what's happening. Multi-pass for sure.

Anyway, here's what I did this afternoon.

I'm working on a pedal trike I got from my father-in-law.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=475183&goto=newpost

Some of the pieces are pretty small at this point & need to be lined up fairly well for welding. I didn't think I'd be able to pull it off if I clamped to the piece. So, I made a welding table. I'm not sure what everyone else refers to as a welding table, but here's what it means to me.
I cut off a section of bike frame (scrap steel tubing), hammered one side flat, ground off all the paint & the rust from a corner of 1' solid stock. I have no idea where this chunk of crap came from, but I'm glad I kept my mom from throwing it away. Then I welded the flat part of the tube to the 1'. That's my grounding 'strap.' Finally, I ground off the rust in the middle of the chunk.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/WeldingTable.jpg

Here's what my first pass looked like.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/ProductionWeld01.jpg

My alignment worked.
before...
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/AxleSizeComparison.jpg
after...
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/ProductionWeld01Fits.jpg

Then I worked on cleaning it up & found that there was a little too much space between the pieces...so I ground it out.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/ProductionWeld01Ground1.jpg
Half way anyway.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/ProductionWeld01Ground2.jpg

I was too irritated by the internal void & chomping at the bit to get a 'cleaned up' pic. But you can see how the void continues to the other half.

Then I welded the void up.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/ProductionWeld02.jpg

I ran into some problems towards the end with the brown stuff the flux core puts out. So I didn't get to build it all high enough. Some of the welded area is still a little low. I'll weld it up tomorrow after I re-do the other side.

My wife called & had finished her day of training for the nursing boards. She was stressed out & needed some support. So I cleaned up in a hurry & didn't get a 'clean weld' pic.

More tomorrow.
Thanks again!
-Chaz

[90TOYPU]

My best advice is to keep practicing like you are doing and play with your machine so you get comfortable with it. I'd also highly suggest getting some anti-spatter spray from your local welding shop. It makes all the difference in the world. The wire you use can also make a big difference. I prefer Hobart wire. Good luck!

[JeepJam]

Anti-spatter spray, huh?
That sounds like exactly what I need! I'd never heard of such a thing (I know...newbie).

Right now I'm using the wire that came with the machine. I think the primary writing on the spool is in another language. I'm thinking it may not be of the highest quality. :P

I really hope that I can get a bottle soon. If not, I'll make sure to get some high quality flux core (& check out that anti-spatter).

Thanks for the tips!
-Chaz

[90TOYPU]

No problem. The anti spatter spray helps tremendously with clean up. As far as turning your machine into a mig (with gas) you will most likely loose some of it's "power". That was my experience with my 110. It would be great for light gage materials but for thicker stuff the flux core does better. I used my "Mig Kit" for a week and then took it off and got rid of it. Once you are decent at using the flux core it works very well, it's just messy. I would definitely try some quality wire too. It's also important to keep the wire out of humidity.

[JeepJam]

I'm not sure I understand how adding the bottle will cut the power.

The welder is set up to be flux or MIG, so I wouldn't be doing anything it wasn't designed for (which might be a first for me ;-). The bottle would be pressurized, so it wouldn't rob any current.
I dunno...I guess I just don't get it.

Could you explain that a little more, please?

As for the humidity, except for the winter...I'm out of luck. I live in KS & it's pretty sticky here. I don't think I could get away with storing the welder inside & it's not worth unloading the spool every time. Something I could keep in mind for the future though.

What does humidity do to the flux core?

Thanks,
Chaz

[90TOYPU]

The wire absorbs humidity. It's not a huge deal though. As far as the "power robbing"...sorry, I should have explained that better. If your welder came with a chart that shows what settings to use for different material thicknesses you will notice that the settings have to be higher for "MIG" then for flux core for the same thickness (problem is the settings can only go so high so you loose some ability while in MIG mode). I don't know the science behind it but basically the wire does not burn as hot. This is not a problem for large machines but for my 110 it was. I'm not trying to scare you out of converting your machine, just giving you a heads up on what MIGHT or MIGHT not happen. Does that make sense?

[JeepJam]

Absolutely!
Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me.

I'll take a look at my manual tomorrow & see if I can find the settings details. Something to keep in mind...

BTW, I love your 'I work slow.'
I was just talking to my wife about that. Every time I set a deadline, I have to short cut or leave things out. I've decided that my enire goal in working on this project or my Jeep (whatever really) is simply to make progress. I'm not in a race & I'm not a professional. If I want to do quality work I'm going to have to take my time & expect to come across things that will take longer than expected.

Anyway, thanks again.
-Chaz

P.S. I'd like to see pics of your toy, any write-ups of work you've done on it would be great. I've read most of the build ups in the Toy truck/4rnr forum. My brother-in-law has a '90 4rnr with 32's. You can see it's butt in my trike thread. It'd be nice to SAS it & junk someday.
(time & money, time & money)

[Tintop]

My best advice, Practice! Slow down, do all the same cleaning prep has regular mig. Make sure The wire is hooked To DC NEGATIVE!!!!!! 211 runs straight polarity only. With 1/4 metal thickness and that machine I'd run at full power and wire speed at like 3-4.5 While welding your stickout (the amount of wire from puddle to tip) should be around 1/4-3/8 of an inch, you'll have to play around. DRAG the gun... Do not PUSH, the flux will roll back into the weld. Do a slow side to side motion... NO CIRCLES!!!!!!!!! Small side to side and pause a bit each side... move slow, let it burn in.. Watch the damm of flux behind the puddle as well as the puddle itself. You want the flux to always be a damm behind. Always clean off the SLAG with a brush and chipping hammer after you weld, You can tell if its set right by how easy the slag 'peels' or 'scrapes' off. The weld should look nice and pretty.

[JeepJam]

Okay, patience is not one of my virutes, but I will try to slow down.
The wire is hooked to negative. You can see that in the second pic, but thanks for the pointer (made me double check!).

211 runs straight polarity only
I don't get it...

I was dragging, but I was also doing circles. Side to side it is.

I need to get a brush & chipping hammer. Right now I'm cleaning up with a grinder or a die grinder with one of those stone thingies on it.

Is it a better weld if the slag is hard to get off or easier to get off?

Thanks again,
This kinda stuff is why I love this site!
-Chaz

[PsychoticDeadGuy]

Its better if the slag comes off easier. If its hard to get off then that means you will have porosity= not a very strong weld.

[Bubba_Jeep]

You should clean the flux out of the weld before adding more filler. That brown stuff is flux, and if left in place, will contaminate your weld. Make a slow, steady pass, clean well with wire brush, or whatever it takes to ride the area of flux, then do the next pass. Try slow and steady. You can by spray that will signficantly inhibit the spatter from sticking to the metal arround your welds, as well as help keep the wire from clogging the tip.
With regard to loosing power when switching from flux to MIG--could it be the cooling affect the gas has on the weld?

[guidolyons]

There is no telling what that fence post is made of, practicing on some good clean steel will give you a better idea of your welding skills.

Preparation of the joint will make a huge improvement on weld quality. A clean, tight fitting joint will be much stronger.

[JeepJam]

You should clean the flux out of the weld before adding more filler. That brown stuff is flux, and if left in place, will contaminate your weld. Make a slow, steady pass, clean well with wire brush, or whatever it takes to ride the area of flux, then do the next pass. Try slow and steady. You can by spray that will signficantly inhibit the spatter from sticking to the metal arround your welds, as well as help keep the wire from clogging the tip.
With regard to loosing power when switching from flux to MIG--could it be the cooling affect the gas has on the weld?

I've been cleaning the area back down to bare metal before welding more every time.

I came to the same conclusion about the gas cooling the weld. Think about how cold a C02 cartridge gets when you empty it all at once...

There is no telling what that fence post is made of, practicing on some good clean steel will give you a better idea of your welding skills.

Preparation of the joint will make a huge improvement on weld quality. A clean, tight fitting joint will be much stronger.

I discovered that the fence post was made of crap & experienced that a better joint (in alignment & prep) made for a stronger weld. Check out the image of my second attempt on the post & how it broke.

Here's what I accomplished & screwed up yesterday.
This first pic's pretty blurry, but hopefully it's a little informative.
I was pretty pleased with how it turned out.
I think this was at a wirespeed of 4
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/ProductionWeld03.JPG
From another angle
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/ProductionWeld03reverse.JPG

I ground down the other side & gave it a shot at a wirespeed of 3.
I think that ran the penetration/heat up a bit.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/ProductionWeld04.JPG
:eek:

That frustrated me a little. But what frustrated me more was that after I cleaned my mistake up I couldn't get it to stay aligned for anything. That small piece was just too little to work with. So, I welded it to the 'welding table' & was able to progress from there.
Unfortunately, I was so in to figuring it out, I didn't take many pictures.
Here's what I ended up with though.
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/AxleMountsDone.JPG
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/AxleMountFits2.JPG

So, from there I moved on to tube.

Prep...
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/TubeNotch.JPG

I ended up turning the welder down all the way, but the wall on this tube is just too thin...
This is my attempt at multiple tacks so things wouldn't heat up too much (I burnt through both pieces on my first attempt at a tack).
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/TubeMultiTack.JPG
It doesn't get much uglier.

Here's wirespeed 4
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/TubeWS4.JPG

I did another right next to this one with a wirespeed of 5 & it burnt through worse. Forgot to take a pic, though.

I put a little stress on the joint & it feels decently stiff. I'm pretty sure I could break it w/o using tools. I just wasn't ready to take that step yet. I think it's time I cut the other bike apart to see if the tube walls are any thicker (it's heavy enough, that I'm pretty sure they are).

There's plenty to critique here.
Thanks again, all.
-Chaz

[geberhard]

Chaz,

Not sure why it is coming out so crappy. Ok, some info I may have missed. Youa re using flux core, and how thick? Also is your welder setup from factory for flux core or MIG wire? I aks that since Lincoln Welders 135 (3200HD) work with both flux and mig wire, but you need to change the power line setup inside removing wire wth screwdriver, and then adjusting depending on the config of the wire type. Doe snot hurt to ask :)

Ok, so far you used some steel you have, how about gettinga couple scrap pieces from a metal place or buy decent weldable plates from OSH or Home Depot, they are about $3 or $4 each, but are decent weldable pieces to get started. Try that first, check and cut for penetration, etc.

Good luck!

[JeepJam]

I'm really pleased with how I'm progressing on the thicker stuff.
I think each pass has gotten better.

Although practice can't be bad, I don't think I'd gain much by buying thick metal to practice on.

What I need help with is the thin stuff. The other frame I'm planning on using is probably thicker. I'll find out Saturday.

I'm using .035 wire.

I'll check my book on the inside wire stuff, but it came with the wire I'm using I would hope that it was set up correctly.

I doublechecked & I'm running the correct wire push wheel (I don't know what it's really called) & tip.

Here are some pics I meant to post up earlier.
Power settings table
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/WelderPowerSettings.JPG

Foreign language wire spool
http://www.fundamentallydriven.com/webmaster/images/trike/WireSpool.JPG

[guidolyons]

Another problem you might be having with the bike parts is the brackets maybe some kind of casting (which will crack easily) rather than stamped steel. The bike frame isn't Chromoly is it? What heat setting are you using for the tube? Since you burned through easily did you try a lower heat setting?

Even for flux core those are some ugly welds!

[JeepJam]

No, I know the frame is good steel.
It's Reynolds 531. It was the gold bar standard back in the day.
My new bike is Reynolds 805 or 808 or something. I won't be cutting it up!

I had the power set all the way down when I was welding the tubing.

I agree with you on the welds, they are impressive in their ugliness.
-Chaz

[Tintop]

Ok, haven't looked at this post in a while... GAS does not cool the weld... Whats happening is when you run DC NEGATIVE, your current is putting 75% of the heat into the material instead of POSITIVE which puts 75% of the heat in the wire. Negative sends the current through the work clamp, through the material and up into the wire back to the machine. Positive is the opposite. Thats why you get better penetration with flux core wires and its HARDER to weld thinner metals!!!
This is not ment as any offence... but can you SEE the puddle while you are welding? Is your shade to dark or to light? Are you farsided and wear glasses? They make magnified glass inserts for hoods for thoose that need seeing glasses.
Its really hard to say what you are doing wrong... it is operator error. Try setting the machine to what the settings say for material thickness and then adjust from there.
-While welding play with the STICKOUT. This is the amount of wire from puddle to the tip. On thicker metals, you'll want less stickout.
-When all is dialed in good and you finally got the hang of manipulating this wire, the slag should be able to be removed easily with a brush and a nice shiny weld will result.
I have some .035 flux lurking around, When I get a chance this week I'll snap some photos for ya :)

[Tintop]

Oh and I mentioned in my 1st post watching the dam of slag... did that make any sense to you? Controlling that dam is more important than watching the puddle itself.

[JeepJam]

Ok, haven't looked at this post in a while... GAS does not cool the weld... Whats happening is when you run DC NEGATIVE, your current is putting 75% of the heat into the material instead of POSITIVE which puts 75% of the heat in the wire. Negative sends the current through the work clamp, through the material and up into the wire back to the machine. Positive is the opposite. Thats why you get better penetration with flux core wires and its HARDER to weld thinner metals!!!

Okay, that makes sense. Is there any reason that I would switch the polarity on my machine? It would be easy to do. I've got the positive on the clamp right now, which is how the manual said to set it up. (pic in first post)

This is not ment as any offence... but can you SEE the puddle while you are welding? Is your shade to dark or to light? Are you farsided and wear glasses? They make magnified glass inserts for hoods for thoose that need seeing glasses.

I didn't take it as an offense at all. I'm asking for help, I'd like to know of anything and everything you see that I'm doing wrong.
I am very nearsighted, but I wear my glasses in my hood.
I've got a bit of a sunburn from sitting out in the driveway for most of the weekend in the direct sun so I could see what I was doing. I draped a towel over my head to keep sun out of the hood to help with visibility. A better hood for my hood is in the works.

Its really hard to say what you are doing wrong... it is operator error. Try setting the machine to what the settings say for material thickness and then adjust from there.
-While welding play with the STICKOUT. This is the amount of wire from puddle to the tip. On thicker metals, you'll want less stickout.
-When all is dialed in good and you finally got the hang of manipulating this wire, the slag should be able to be removed easily with a brush and a nice shiny weld will result.
I have some .035 flux lurking around, When I get a chance this week I'll snap some photos for ya :)

I never doubted that it was operator error, but thanks for pointing it out.
:D :laughing:
I tried every setting I had on the tubing. It's SO thin. :(
I'll have to pay more attention to the stickout. Will more stickout help make the bead cooler?

I would really appreciate any pictures you could provide of that .035 flux on THIN material. Do you have a 115v welder, too?

On the slag dam...
I don't think I've paid attention to it. I definately used your tip on going back and forth, it was AWESOME. I'm at least passable on the thick stuff (at least I think so). I've just got to figure out the tricks to the thin.
When I try again this weekend I'll try and see the slag dam.

Thanks as always,
Chaz

[90TOYPU]

I thought of two more things that could help you out. First, if you are using an extension cord to power your machine make sure it is a heavy duty one. A regular everyday extension cord will not give the right amperage. If you don't know, then plug your machine straight into the outlet (no extension cord) and see if that makes a difference. The second thing, if you plan on doing a lot of welding over time I would recommend getting an auto darkening helmet. They are not cheap but they are a great way to cheat when you are learning and they make welding so much more fun. I almost refuse to weld without mine, but I'm spoiled.

[Tintop]

Another good thing to do... goto your local JC and take a begining welding class :) That way you'll get exposed to oxy, stick, mig, flux, and maybe even tig. You'll have somebody to look over your shoulder and guide you.

[usmcdoc14]

trick I have learned making roof racks out of ENT (THIN walled steel tube) with a flux core welder is to turn all the setting to the lowest and weld in pulses and "listen" to the weld. You will hear it burn through :laughing: and stop before that point.
(Yes I know that cold/hot welds are not "good" but for thin walled shit it works and the weld is stronger than the tube)

notch like you did
lay a weld for like 1-2 seconds
stop
watch the weld and when you can no longer see it glowing through your helmet lay another bead.

I do maybe 1/4" at a time.
yes its a little tedious but it works, it also does well on exhaust pipe

note: DO NOT USE THIS STYLE OF WELDING ON ANYTHING ELSE !!! it is not a strong weld. Practice your "real" welding on some 1/8" plate or something you can practice your whipping and puddle without burning through.

[JeepJam]

Wow, this is great stuff guys!

Unfortunately, I have to wait until Saturday to try it all out.

Thanks again,
Chaz

[beyer05]

Just my .02.
I have a Cambell Hausfeld 110V welder I bought from Harbor Freight for a welder to throw in the tow rig for trail repairs (with a generator). Well anyway, it welds like SHIT compared to a Hobart 110V (buddies) or my Lincoln 220V welder. My welds looked alot like yours. I thought maybe it was the cheap flux wire it came with, but I also assume the welder is just not up to par. I have practiced with it and I think I can lay a good enough bead to get me off the trail, but I would redo it as soon as I got home. I am going to look for a Hobart/Lincoln/Miller 110V to replace my HF special. Try to lay a bead with one of your buddies welders and see if it is you or the machine.