WTF?

http://notes.sej.org/sej/tipsheet.nsf/5c4d381a935008dd86256e7b000312eb/D6F9695FCEB0ABA5862571320051034F

http://www.autoinsidernews.com/2006/05/26/ford-delays-launch-of-f-series-super-duty/

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/GeneralFuture/articleId=109864

I am still trying to figure this all out but from what I understand, the new Ford will only run on Ultra Low Surfur Diesel.

Will my 03 F250 7.3 need additives if all they sell is Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel in CA?

What are the pros/cons to an 07 Ford 6.0 vs. 08 Ford Twin Turbo? No smack talking on the 6.0 please... way too many threads on that already...

I am still trying to figure this all out but from what I understand, the new Ford will only run on Ultra Low Surfur Diesel.

Will my 03 F250 7.3 need additives if all they sell is Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel in CA?

What are the pros/cons to an 07 Ford 6.0 vs. 08 Ford Twin Turbo? No smack talking on the 6.0 please... way too many threads on that already...

yes, all diesel engines sold after January 1st 2007 MUST have the new emmissions garbage. Technically Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel is supposed to be implimented widespread in October 2006 I think. They arent requiring the new "super emmissions" diesels to be released until January because even tho ULSD is mandated in Oct, they want to stagger things and give all the gas stations a chance to switch over to ULSD, because the new "super emmissions" diesels can ONLY run on ULSD. All current diesels will have no problem running on ULSD. The sulfur amount in current onroad low sulfur diesel (>500ppm) helps lube the injnection pump and injectors....ULSD (>15ppm) will have special additives in it to keep injection pumps lubed and compensate for the lack of sulfur.

the 7.3 PSD, 6.0 PSD, LB7/LLY/LBZ Dmax, and Cummins will all work just fine on the new ULSD, the current low sulfur diesel, and off road diesel

the new 6.4 PSD, "LMM" Duramax, and 6.7 Cummins will all have a LOT more emmissions crap and be required to run on ULSD. These new engines can NOT be run on the current low sulfur diesel and can NOT be run on off-road diesel.

As far as all three of the new engines, they will all be more expensive due to the extra cost of the new emmissions crap installed on them. Not much is known about the 6.4. Ford/Navistar is being pretty tight lipped about it, other than a projected 350hp/650tq figure. I assume it will be slightly more upon release, they just gave the 350/650 figure so GM or Cummins wouldnt have any idea on what bigger number to shoot for to "one up" Ford. However, on the other hand, it might not be any more than 350/650 because the new emmissions controls will choke the new diesels so much that more power than that might not be possible without insane EGT's etc... Basically, all three of the new diesels will not be favorable in general because of emmissions.:(

from what ive read, the 6.4 is based on the 6.0, but with major revisions. Twin turbos will be in place for emmissions. (no, its not going to be insane like aftermarket twin turbos, they wont flow much more air than a current stock single charger) and a high pressure common rail system with piezo injectors will replace the current HEUI (hydro electric unit injecttion) system.

as with any new engine, it might be best to wait a year for the bugs (if any) to be worked out... I would keep your 7.3 until the 6.4 comes out, then assess the situation from there after the 6.4 has some time to prove itself. I have confidence it will be a good engine...Ford/International is doing their homework on this engine, and they are doing their best to have the bugs worked out before its released.

your 7.3 wont need any additives to work on ULSD, but It might not be a bad idea to run soem additive thru it every other tank or so when you start using ULSD. I run additive (stanadyne) maybe once every 6 or 7 tanks, but I will probably be more religious about it when ULSD comes out. The Oil comanies say it will work fine "as is" but what do they know :)

ben

I have read somewhere that the new engine will ONLY run on the new ULS Diesel. That would be interesting... if you were out on a trip (maybe going to Mexico or across the U.S.) and if it is not readily available..... then WTF?

I am almost thinking it would be better for me to get an 07 Ford 6.0 so I can keep it for a couple of years then move up to the 6.4. I WONT own a Ford out of Warranty and my warranty is up in 20,000 miles (current driving about less than a year). My Supercab is a bit too small, need to move up to the crewcab. The 6.0 was plagued with problems, but most of the bugs have been worked out by now... Not a big fan of the Chevys or Dodges, but maybe I should.... They are not bad just they all have their pros/cons....

I
I am almost thinking it would be better for me to get an 07....

Lots of folks are getting 2006 and older diesels tyo avoid all of this restrictive emission crap. I plan on keeping my '04 for at least 10 years now.

I have read somewhere that the new engine will ONLY run on the new ULS Diesel. That would be interesting... if you were out on a trip (maybe going to Mexico or across the U.S.) and if it is not readily available..... then WTF?

thats why they are staggaring the introduction of things.

the current low sulfur diesel can no longer be sold on Otober 1st 2006. The new diesels are not going to be sold until Jan 1st 2007 (at the earliest).

If you are going to Mexico im not sure what you would do...:(

If you are going to Mexico im not sure what you would do...:( AUX fuel tank would help if it's a rather short trip. So if i ''accidently'' put offroad (dyed) fuel in my 04 MAX it's safe.(off topic:flipoff2: )

they already have decals on the pumps at the local truck stop. WARNING DO NOT USE IN 2007 MODEL AND NEWER PICKUP TRUCKS, THIS MIX CONTAINS >500ppm sulfur content, blahblahblah

Wow. What a pain in the ass. I think I'll stick to owning a gasser.

no shit Ive always wanted a new diesel but what ive been reading I stick w/ my z71

I always wondered about what is going to happen to people who buy diesel pickups, for purely offroad use, ie: farm truck, etc.... and that can LEGALY run offroad fuel... I guess they take it in the ass if they want a new truck..

Another thing that made me wonder, is, judging by what I have read, the only reason good fuel can't be run in 07+ trucks is because it will clog the smog filter/cat. Whats stopping a person from ripping it out, and running good fuel? just simple ressistor? or a chip? like in the gassers?

I always wondered about what is going to happen to people who buy diesel pickups, for purely offroad use, ie: farm truck, etc.... and that can LEGALY run offroad fuel... I guess they take it in the ass if they want a new truck..

Another thing that made me wonder, is, judging by what I have read, the only reason good fuel can't be run in 07+ trucks is because it will clog the smog filter/cat. Whats stopping a person from ripping it out, and running good fuel? just simple ressistor? or a chip? like in the gassers?


Good fuel ??? If by that you mean the current higher sulfur diesel ...........:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Good fuel ??? If by that you mean the current higher sulfur diesel ...........:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


yes, by GOOD fuel I mean fuel thats not so stinkin dry that it kills injection pumps in 100K...

When they take out the sulfer, the oil comes with it.. I know they suposively toss in additives, to improve the lubricity, but how much it helps? I guess we ill find out..

I guess if we could all afford to buy modern trucks, designed for todays dry diesel, it wouldn't be a issue..
I'd take off road, or bio over the current LSD, ULSD scares me, but I guess it will keep power service in bussiness..

AUX fuel tank would help if it's a rather short trip. So if i ''accidently'' put offroad (dyed) fuel in my 04 MAX it's safe.(off topic:flipoff2: )

just be careful because offroad diesel will dye your fuel filter too...if the DOT decides to dip your tank, they may check the fuel filter too...

Its a one in a million chance of them actually checking you, but if you do get caught, the fines are huggeee.:mad:

its stupid, I dont get it...just glad I have a diesel made before 2007...

because the emmissions laws are going to be so strict, I think the manufacturers will make it VERY hard to remove the emmissions equipment (and have the engine still run). Time will tell tho, but there IS a way around everything!:D

I run 2 quarts of ATF in every 46 gallon tankful in my Ford PSD van to help lubricate the pump and injectors so if they were to find any red in my tank that is where it is from. I wonder if the big "no no" to running the old fuel is just because it isnt clean enough for the new engines to run emmisions cleanly? Of course it wouldn't be enviormentaly friendly to run the old fuel in the new trucks? Jim

I run 2 quarts of ATF in every 46 gallon tankful in my Ford PSD van to help lubricate the pump and injectors so if they were to find any red in my tank that is where it is from. I wonder if the big "no no" to running the old fuel is just because it isnt clean enough for the new engines to run emmisions cleanly? Of course it wouldn't be enviormentaly friendly to run the old fuel in the new trucks? Jim

7.3 PSD I hope??

ATF is a baaad idea in the 6.0 PSD, Duramax, and 2003+ Cummins...

its too thick and viscous for higher pressure injection systems, especially the Dmax and 03+ Cummins which use a high pressure common rail system. All of the new "emmissions" diesels will use a high pressure common rail fuel injection system, so no, you cant use ATF.:(

Stanadyne is a good addtive to use.

ben

2 quarts in 46 gallons is not going to change the viscosity of the diesel.:shaking:


7.3 PSD I hope??

ATF is a baaad idea in the 6.0 PSD, Duramax, and 2003+ Cummins...

its too thick and viscous for higher pressure injection systems, especially the Dmax and 03+ Cummins which use a high pressure common rail system. All of the new "emmissions" diesels will use a high pressure common rail fuel injection system, so no, you cant use ATF.:(

Stanadyne is a good addtive to use.

ben

Yes it is a 7.3. I am trying to do anything I can to help my longevity as working on anything under the hood is a mother. I can't imagine the work involved for injectors on this thing.

ATF in anything with out a old style injection pump is dangerous. ATF does not like the higher pressures common rail and heui injectors can put on it. Also it has been my understanding that off-road untaxed dyed fuel will also be ULSD. And finally dropping from 500 to 15 isnt nearly as bad as when they dropped it from 15000 to 500 and all the old diesels still ran fine. Fuel systems only fail because of water in the fuel, low fuel pressure, Dirty or missing filters or other particulates. Running good clean fuel by itself will not damage fuel systems.

Yes it is a 7.3. I am trying to do anything I can to help my longevity as working on anything under the hood is a mother. I can't imagine the work involved for injectors on this thing.

Actually its easier to pull injectors on a van than a super duty truck, pull the dog house and you have all 8 injectors right there unlike on a super duty were you have the heater box in the way.

What harm could ATF pose? I have heard of people doing far worse stuff with Veg/oil mixes and gasoline in their diesel tanks.

Good fuel ??? If by that you mean the current higher sulfur diesel ...........:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Exactly. Been all that's available in Cali for three or four years. They even truck it to the VW plant in Mexico from here, because it's the only thing that will meet EU requirements.

I find my 7.3 is one of the easiest motors I've ever worked on. Everything is pretty well laid out and easy to get to. I didn't even know what a glow plug looked like and I had all eight of mine changed start to finish in less than four hours. Injectors were right there. Alternator and a/c compressor are right on top, CPS isn't too bad. It's way easier than all of the Toyota's I've owned.

I can't imagine how bad Ford can fawk up a twin turbo motor when they couldn't get the 6.0 right in a lot of cases. That single turbo is ungodly loud IMO, just what it needs another one with all of the engineers involved. KISS.

I always wondered about what is going to happen to people who buy diesel pickups, for purely offroad use, ie: farm truck, etc.... and that can LEGALY run offroad fuel... I guess they take it in the ass if they want a new truck..

Another thing that made me wonder, is, judging by what I have read, the only reason good fuel can't be run in 07+ trucks is because it will clog the smog filter/cat. Whats stopping a person from ripping it out, and running good fuel? just simple ressistor? or a chip? like in the gassers?

i doubt it'll be simple to remove or just re-chip. i'm sure someone will figure it out. take a look at this :http://www.detroitdiesel.com/innovations/aftertreatment.aspx
from what I understand ford, chevy, and dodge will all have their own variation of this particulate filter w/ the injector in it...

ATF in anything with out a old style injection pump is dangerous. ATF does not like the higher pressures common rail and heui injectors can put on it.

thank you for backing me up. CJHeap was doubting me.

What harm could ATF pose? I have heard of people doing far worse stuff with Veg/oil mixes and gasoline in their diesel tanks.

its not designed to be burned, so when it is burned, it will leave ash and general other crap deposits on the engine. Its also not meant to be compressed to the fuel pressures that modern diesel's run.

use real additive:)

Please school me if I am wrong

Chevy/GMC - New engine has cat, and a bunch of other smog stuff on it already

Dodge - New engine coming out soon. I have no idea when.

Ford - 6.0, has no cat? or other smog stuff???

thank you for backing me up. CJHeap was doubting me.

Not doubting, saying you do not know what you are talking about. You claimed the viscosity would be too great which is wrong.

Viscosity is a measure of how a liquid is resistant to flow; "thickness" or "thinness". Methanol has a low viscosity, while vegetable oil has a high viscosity.



Care to post up the calculation of how much more viscous (45.5 gallons of diesel with .5 gallons of ATF) is than 46 gallons of #2 ? How about 43.5 gallons of diesel + 2.5 gallons of Biodiesel which is B5 ?:shaking: Come on Einstein, back up your claims:laughing:

ATF in anything with out a old style injection pump is dangerous. ATF does not like the higher pressures common rail and heui injectors can put on it. Also it has been my understanding that off-road untaxed dyed fuel will also be ULSD. And finally dropping from 500 to 15 isnt nearly as bad as when they dropped it from 15000 to 500 and all the old diesels still ran fine. Fuel systems only fail because of water in the fuel, low fuel pressure, Dirty or missing filters or other particulates. Running good clean fuel by itself will not damage fuel systems.


Finally, someone with some common sense. It gets really old listening to all
the typical "prophets of doom" on PBB that talk out their asses and know little
or nothing about the subject.

Not doubting, saying you do not know what you are talking about.


thats the same thing.

I left you alone, so stop following me around (creepy) and finding every little mistake.

I find my 7.3 is one of the easiest motors I've ever worked on. Everything is pretty well laid out and easy to get to..
Open the hood on a 12v cummins, those are by far one of the best motors to work on.
:D

I never thought about the mexico thing, I am wondering what either the big 3 or the oil companies do for this.
Many people here i assume go to MX a lot.

I'd have to say, a 12V and an IDI Navistar are very comparable for easy to work on, a N/A IDI is probably a bit easier...
If you think that a PSD is easy to work on, you have never looked under the hood of either.
As for ULSD, dyed is going that way, but, some refineries are still going to produce the high sulfur stuff for heating oil....
Makes no sense to me, the sulfur content of the fuel is one of the reasons we have issues with steel home heating oil tanks failing....

Well all I know is my van is a 2000 I have owned since new and I have 153,000 on it and have used the ATF since new. I also run AMSOIL in everything in it, I also run their dual remote filter set up on the engine as well as the tranny.

I never thought about the mexico thing, I am wondering what either the big 3 or the oil companies do for this.
Many people here i assume go to MX a lot.

That's gonna put the beaners that steal cars up here and run them across the border in a real pickle isn't it. They may be forced to raise their fees to account for the lack of low sulfer fueling stations in Ajo, Douglas, Nogales, etc..

One of the old farts I worked with as a kid dumped ATF into every tank of fuel we had, I could never figure out why. When he finally explained it to me I thought the same thing, that crap isnt supposed to burn, and real additive is damn near the same price. Duratothemax is right in that it will not work in newer higher pressure engines, while it doesnt do any harm to older engines.
ULSD is the first among many things to change, just wait till 2010

thats the same thing.

I left you alone, so stop following me around (creepy) and finding every little mistake.

No it is not jackass. Explain your claim that the viscosity is the problem.

As for following you around, Go away if you don't like it Troll.

I am not sure what the flash point of ATF is? I can tell you ATF is very flamable, just get it on a hot header or exhaust manifold. I had a 70 Chevelle go up in flame when a flex fan failed and cut the trans. lines and the ATF spilled onto the exhaust.

Not necessarily. ATF is has a higher flash point (352 deg F), otherwise it would not work in an auto trans. Diesel is 125 deg F. We used it as a cutting agent for boring holes in heavy steel and could not even burn the residue off with a torch.

I could see a atomized stream from a broken line flashing but I have busted many lines in my old Corvettes before using stratoflex and all it did was smoke.

I am not sure what the flash point of ATF is? I can tell you ATF is very flamable, just get it on a hot header or exhaust manifold. I had a 70 Chevelle go up in flame when a flex fan failed and cut the trans. lines and the ATF spilled onto the exhaust.

Trying to get back on topic, has anyone heard anything else about the 6.4L twin turbo? I loved my '05 Superduty, but it was totaled, so I'm in the market for a new truck. Right now I'm thinking about waiting until January and getting the new engine in a '07. However, dodge is coming out with that 6.7, and up a few posts someone said Chevy is coming out with a new engine also. Not to mention, soon you'll be able to get a Titan with a diesel. Has anyone heard anything about these other engines?

The dieselstop.com has a lot of good info on the 6.4... Some say a lot of problems but who knows.... I think the new Chevy is out. It is as quiet as a car. Plenty of power and a nice transmission... Not too sure when the dodge is coming out...

A few spy photos...

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2008/ford/08sdspied.html

http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/spy-photos/...cret=1cf351ffcc

and some info on the new motor

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/bulletins/2007psd.php