Hey are some shots of my new suspension flexed on a ramp

pic

here

more

one more

Looks like there still isn't much travel in the front end. That or it's just stiff. The rear is about maxed out before the front starts flexing. (at least that's how it appears in pic 2)

I don't like how the frame mounting points are so low. You got rid of the stock ears to put much weaker mounting points in a more vulnerable position.
And if you leave them where they are you better box the fawkers in.

yeah pic 2 is actually kind of a joke the front right spring fell out because of the articulation and while I was bring it down the ramp we did a poser pic that's why the front is not flexed and the rear is maxed out like that. On the ramp however with the rear retained it flexed nearly as well as a hinged arm so I guess that should give you an idea how well it flexed. The frame mount still isn't done but it is not weak and we measured ground clearance on the frame it is only 1" less and I don't hit the bottom of my frame much anyway and they are angled so that if they do hit they'll drag and won't stick. There is still a double shear plate that will go on the outside of the bolt covering the joints but I still haven't put it on yet. As to boxing the mount I am not exactly clear as to what you mean by that. If you mean fill weld the front of the mount I don't think we'll do that but if you mean put a double shear plate we are doing that. The bolts for the frame mount go all the way under the frame so I still fail to see the strength issues that you seem set on.
-Ben

How about fixing the swivel ball leak and putting in a decent track rod?

Ron

BEN-
What I'm refering too when I say boxed in I mean have the bolt for the johney joints in double shear like you said you are going to do.

It is hard to tell from just some testing pics on a ramp but it does look like to front is too stiff compared to the rear.
Being as the 2nd pic is not fully maxed out on the ramp you can still see that the rear is doing most of the flexing.

Still would have liked to see the frame mounting points up higher:rolleyes:

Oh and welcome newbie:flipoff2:

What is the lengths of your front arms?

What type of front radius arm bushes are you running? Stock rover or something else.

I like the front.

Sam

Looks like it is coming around, now maybe KC will give you the 35s back? BTW- what size is the bolt mounting both arms to the frame...from the pic it looks kinda small?

Johnathan

actually the front swivle isn't leaking that's brake fluid front bleeding the brakes about two minutes before putting it on the ramp. I am making some new track/tie/drag link rods but they just aren't done yet and I didn't think that it would matter just driving it up the ramp. And like I said the second pic is a poser pic there is not a front spring on the front right of the truck at all no spring that's why it is maxed the way it is. The bushings for the front of the arm are stock land rover because there was not a suitable bushing with as much flex as the stock bushings that was the same size (to fit in the axle mounts) I have no idea how long the front arms are they are about 12-18" longer than stock

yeah the bolts running through the frame mount are 9/16th but this is the size that the johnny joints come with and it would weaken the joint if we were to drill it out and the bolts are grade eight (took forever to find 9/16 grade 8 8inches long) so until I tweak one which I don't think will happen I'll live with the 9/16ths. Oh and I am getting my tires back probably next week going to run it on his tiny tires for a couple days just to test it out (less braking force, ect.)

What are you doing for rear shocks?

for rear shocks I'll be running 9114s with Never Summer Offroads rear mount. I'll take some pics when I get it bolted in should be this weekend

Ben - you going to have it out at Barnwell weekend after this?

I'm curious to see how it will handle when taken offroad. And make sure the parking brake is working, just in case :D

Ben, looks good man. Always good to see someone going out on their own and doing something different. I can't wait to see it in action. Are you going to make it out to the Barnwell run the first weekend in May? (Texas trail rides 2 aka SWFWDA Spring Quarterly). Hope to see you and KC out there. I should have some bigger tires by then!!

ps. If you are going, what trails are you running?

Blister

Dude, you need to ditch that rear bumper man. Really kills the departure angle!!!

Blister

Okay...I don't feel so bad about using either a 3/4 x 3/4 heim or a 5/8 x 3/4 heim to locate my rear links to the frame...I just bought and built (on a press) my Jonny's...9/16's bolt...They will be locating my upper links...

BTW, did you re-work the upper trailing arms too? Looks like maybe you did..If so any pics?

--D

I similar convesation is taking place on the general 4x4 board. I put up grade 8 (both SAE and metric) shear ratings on my web site. Thought it might be useful for those of you changing your steering and suspension links. Don't know any shear ratings on the new grade 9 bolts yet, but that is another option for all of you.

"The static load lb for a 3/4" Heim (3/4 - 16 threads per inch) heim with a 5/8" bolt is 40,572. This is for a heim joint that made of 52100 bearing steel. Common price for this heim is $29.50 each. Mis-alignment angle is 13. The cost of a misalignment bushing (to space heim away from mounting surface) for a 5/8" bolt is $3.50. The bushing is 5/8" icnhes tall as well.

Ironically a heim for a 3/4" bolt again with a (3/4 - 16 threads per inch)(assuming links already made and you want a 3/4" thread heim???) the static load is only 29,081. (misallignment angle of 14)

The trade of here is that you have a weaker heim, but a stronger bolt. Assuming that a heim can flex a bit (bolt cannot obviously), this is why systems fail with 3/4" heims. The heims I pulled the specs for are the strongest that I have seen. These are the heims that people like John Gilleland use without failure. They have a teflon/kevlar self lubricatin race, etc. They are heat treated blah blah blah. "

Way

http://student.fortlewis.edu/~alway/grade8.htm


Looks like a 3/4" joint and 3/4" bolt is just a tad bit stronger than a 5/8" bolt. 29,081 vs. 27, 610. I'm sure either one is fine for what we do. Monster trucks use 1" heims and don't break them, so i think a 3/4" would be more than strong enough. I wanted 1" heims for a while too, but i think now that i will use 3/4" just because they're cheaper and lighter. I think if you carry a few spares, they would be easy to change if something did happen.

Bill what is the deal with that trailrdie Barnwell is right up the road (relatively speaking) so I'd love to make it out there. Yeah we are working on a new rear bumper but I have to have a hitch because I'm always towing around my trailer and we haven't come up with a good way of installing a hitch that can support a substantial sized trailer. We are thinking of going through the rear crossmember but we've actually started on that yet have to finish up the suspension and road and offroad test it first before we can start on another project (rear bumper, fix sliders, run arb lines, fix fiberglass top, modify SG bumper, halfshaft upgrade, 4+ RT springs ect.) So some day it'll get done. Seems to hold up pretty well to lots of punishment though!! Doug what exactly are you asking about? I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say upper trailing arms. I'll send some pics once I figure out if I did do anything to it.
-Ben

Speaking of Heims, I pulled my rear links today after 1 year as a daily driver and inspected my 3/4" Heims. I was surprised to see no wear what so ever in them. They rotated freely but no shake or wear. Put them suckers right back in with a smile. These are the same Heims you seem to be describing but they are not automotive but are used for Hyd. cylinders on dozers. Also $48 ea??? I also put my tie rod in front of my axle today using the same 3/4" Heims. It worked out sweet. The tie rod sits about 2/3" higher in front as the heims are sitting on top of the knuckle arm now. I think the 3/4" heim and the 3/4" GR 8 are not the weak points in a tie rod set up as the knuckle casting after drilling has only about 3/4" wall thickness left around the drilled hole. In a shock hit I believe that would break before Heim or GR 8 bolt.

Good choice on the relocation. Have any pictures? I am able to lift my vehicle as a jack point from my tie rod now (it is 1.5" thick when sleeved). I am running the 3/4" heims with 3/4" grade eight bolts. I purchased mine from Jegs for about $32. The ball is 52100 steel, heat treated, chrome plated, with a teflon/kevalr race. I have only been running mine for a short period of time, but I have purposely hit a few rocks here in there to see if the bar would even bow at all, so far none.

As far as the knuckle goes, I am suprised that the thickness isn't greater, but it still sounds like plenty of strength. What else can you tell us about your source of heims??? From the price it sounds like they are heavier duty??? Have you thought about a high steer set up?

Way

Ben here is a picture that may interest you. It is on a rangie, but somewhat similar.

Does the 4 link on the rangie flex? Since I have my tie rod moved to the front thats the direction I am headed as I have ample room now for good geometry...a 4 link...but different geometry 4 link than that. I am planning for my upper arms to be inside of the lower arms, that way I can get the 2 upper arms into a beefed up crossmember for strenght.. I've got to do a model first and see where it tries to lock up first on articulative rotation. The Heims I have been getting from McMaster Carr, similar description, I dont know if better or not...maybe just more costly...lol. Not sure what high steering is? At least now I have cured most of my bump steer as my drag link sits more level. If I trust in a longer 3/4 kuckle bolt I can level out my drag link...but thats more leverage although I can come off the top of the knuckle with an upper bearing plate for support of a longer bolt. When I get some pics I will get you to post as I aint smart enough to figure out how to do that yet. Damn this old age.

Happy to post your pitures. I haven't seen any vehicles (bens and the rangie I posted) flex very well at all. Granted it is an improvement over stock, but I haven't seen any of them come anywhere near the way I can get the front end of mine to articulate. I am not a fan of having to put super supple front springs up front to literally force the hell out of your suspension in order to get it to flex. I would rather have a relatively free set up like a three link and have firmer springs...just my preference.

The best four links I have seen have the two center arms make a "V" shape. There are two attachment points on the axle and one on the cross member. Some even have the ability to swival like the SG center link. The center arms are usually low on the axle housing and the outer arms are almost perfectly flat. This makes the mount on the axle end on top. The well engineered ones even incorparte a bump stop plate on the control arm. I will attach a picture of one of some my friends in Durangos set ups to clarify.

Here is a picture of Zeb and Tugs four link. It flexes like mad. Picture was taken a while back, but there rig flexs really well with the spring located on the control arms.

Finally the last picture is of highsteer arms. They attach (on a D44 at least) to the top of the knuckle where the three bolts protrude. The arms stick out and you can mount your tie rod and drag link way up high so that it is way out of the way.

Here is how to show pictures for the new members of the list.
To post pictures when composing a message you need to hit the IMG button and then link to the page where the picture is. If you right click on the image on your website and check porperties you will get something like this

http://www.rovertym.com/ourprod/bumper/slimrangie.jpg

Put this in the IMG window and there you go. If it is easier send them over and I will optimize them for the web and put them up on the list for you. Anyone with a red star (paying members are able to attach them like in a normal email)

EDIT: A 3/4" bolt will have a body shear of 39760 lbf. You will be fine with your rover steering by a long shot

Originally posted by m016324
Yeah we are working on a new rear bumper but I have to have a hitch because I'm always towing around my trailer and we haven't come up with a good way of installing a hitch that can support a substantial sized trailer. We are thinking of going through the rear crossmember

Ben,

Grayson and I did an interesting hitch on the rear crossmember on my 90. It can sustain some pretty heavy shit...at least so far. I'd attach a pic but I don't have one of it and as you know it is still at LRFW so either I can show it to you after I pick it up/send you pics once I pic it up/you can go see it at LRFW. I think I spent about $7 at Bryan Iron and it took a few hours to make. You could probably use any type of hitch on it but I opted for one of those pintle/ball ones that I bought at Tractor Suppy Co.