Ive been hearing about this off and on lately.

Who has a reverse cut 30? do they have strength of a standard cut 44?

What rigs do reverse cut 30's come on?

RC Dana 30's (as far as I know) only came in YJ era wranglers, and possible some cherokees of the same years, I don't know if they continued in the cherokees until it's end, or if they switched over to the TJ style standard cut 30.

Strong as a standard D44, probably not, the ring and pinion might be close, but the shafts are still smaller, and the hubs are really small, you can convert to locking hubs, but the parts used are really week, not nearly on par with a D44, u-joints I believe were all the smaller (260?) instead of the larger 297 that came out in the later D30's. There might have been one year with the large u-joints, and reverse cut, I can't remember. Also (to my knowledge) they all had the vacumn operated axle disconnect.

I got one i'm getting ready to pull out of my YJ, I considering holding on to it, and retubing it, and putting 44 outters on it for the front of my KJ if I ever get around to doing a SAO on it.

Chad

95 YJ's had the 297 joints with the vacuum disconnect axle.

I seem to remeber that RC D30's are standard fare for Wranglers from 1987-2000.
the shafts are smaller, but the weak point is still the Cardan joint.
and Spicer has done a real top-notch job of PISSING EVERYONE OFF be moving the ball joints from the knuckle to the yoke.
not that I'm bitter about it, or anything...

Holy thread of mis-information batman:eek:

Standard Cut D30's: CJ's, TJ's ZJ's
Reverse Cut D30's: YJ's, XJ's MJ's


For answers to this and other simple axle questions try www.jeeptech.com lots of good info there.

Originally posted by oldjeep
Holy thread of mis-information batman:eek:

Standard Cut D30's: CJ's, TJ's ZJ's
Reverse Cut D30's: YJ's, XJ's MJ's


For answers to this and other simple axle questions try www.jeeptech.com lots of good info there.

Ironic post... :rolleyes:

As far as XJ's go, reverse cut Dana 30's up to and including model year 1999, standard cut Dana 30's for the 2000's and 2001's...

What's the point in arguing about it. It's not worth the effort to swap one in anyway....

Originally posted by Welby
What's the point in arguing about it. It's not worth the effort to swap one in anyway....

People swap IN D30's???? :eek: ;)

Originally posted by GonPostal


Ironic post... :rolleyes:

As far as XJ's go, reverse cut Dana 30's up to and including model year 1999, standard cut Dana 30's for the 2000's and 2001's...

I agree - if that's the case then it is pretty ironic :emb2:

And yes, strangly enough they do swap them in. I'm swapping a D30 into a 2wd MJ this weekend. Why? Because it's a bolt in, and I couldn't find a 2wd tranny - so the truck will be 4wd now;)

Originally posted by Welby
What's the point in arguing about it. It's not worth the effort to swap one in anyway....

Well since I posted this question now I dont have to ASSUME that it is not worth it... now I knowwwwww..

Which was the intent of the question. Arm oneself with information... Information is POWERR....bwwwwahahahah


Thanx for the responces.

Dana Model 181 (30 for you outside the "know") Reverse Spiral Gear Set

Ratio Released for production
2.72 85
3.07 82
3.31 82
3.54 86
3.73 82
4.10 82
4.56 85

Ratio Gear Set P/N
4.10 71864 x
4.56 71866 x

Dana also made a Reverse Spiral 35!

take a reverse cut 30, toss tj shafts in it to eliminate the disconnect and put 297 joints in it. you could even do alloy shafts for extra strength. why go to hubs, they are just going to break anyways, i like the simplicity of not having them. if you go to the hubs you can go 30 spline, but is say stay with the 27 alloy ones. now if superior would finish that damn kit, you could do something about the outer shafts to make them stronger.

Originally posted by Mr.N

Dana also made a Reverse Spiral 35!

Yeah, but it is an IFS (or I-beam, whatever you ford folk call it) RC D35... :eek:

:laughing:

I just rebuilt a d-30 reverse cut in a 2000 XJ on friday. It was unique to other Jeep 30's, as it didn't have a crush sleeve and pinion depth was set with shims behind the race and the carrier was shimmed from the inside exactly like a standard 44. Go figure.

ps. No front disconnect.

I have a 99 or 2000 XJ RC D-30. Complete hub to hub with springs etc. It uses the 297X ujoints and does not have an axle disconnect.

Yours if you want it. It's at a friends house in CT. I am in CA. You ship it. You pay him to crate it if needed.
Drop me a note offline if you want this for your MJ.

No one has stated as of yet if the RC 30 is significantly stronger than a regular 30? If I understand correctly any RC is stronger gear set compared to non RC of the same size... if this is so then does it approach the strength of a regular D44 R&P making the shafts and U joint the weak link compared to a regular D44?

Also does it make it high pinoun significantly... like is the output 2" higher than a regular 30 or only 1/2" difference. My rig is not here so I cant go out and look and see what it would look like up side down.

Originally posted by aaronlosey
take a reverse cut 30, toss tj shafts in it to eliminate the disconnect and put 297 joints in it. you could even do alloy shafts for extra strength. why go to hubs, they are just going to break anyways, i like the simplicity of not having them. if you go to the hubs you can go 30 spline, but is say stay with the 27 alloy ones. now if superior would finish that damn kit, you could do something about the outer shafts to make them stronger.

..and you would still be polishing a turd.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by chico


..and you would still be polishing a turd.:rolleyes:

how about some technical explanation on this terd ur discribing... how is a RC 30 more of a turd than a Regular 44... and sure.. most everyting is a turd compared to a 60... but then a 60 is a turd compared to a rockwelll or Moser....

so... lets get technical here.

Originally posted by Grendel
I have a 99 or 2000 XJ RC D-30. Complete hub to hub with springs etc. It uses the 297X ujoints and does not have an axle disconnect.

Yours if you want it. It's at a friends house in CT. I am in CA. You ship it. You pay him to crate it if needed.
Drop me a note offline if you want this for your MJ.

Hey, I am interested in this RC d30. I e-mailed you.

Originally posted by coachgeo


how about some technical explanation on this terd ur discribing... how is a RC 30 more of a turd than a Regular 40... and sure.. most everyting is a turd compared to a 60... but then a 60 is a turd compared to a rockwelll or Moser....

so... lets get technical here.

WTF is a 40?

Originally posted by chico


WTF is a 40?



geeee man cant u read my mind...:rolleyes: you need to be :smokin: some more and get some more :zzz: so ur empty head can can get in synch with us typo types. Man we ruleeeee and will one day take ova the earth :rasta: :rasta:

It's a typo Turd man ...... It's corrected now!

They say that reverse cut axles are 15-25% stronger than a normal cut axle in a front application.

It is possible that by running on the "right" side of the ring that you gain similiar strength to a 44.
Granted, I am running a standard cut 44 in the front of my YJ.
I got the axle I have now before I decided to go to a D-300 t-case.

and the price beats modifying a D44... and buying a new ARB.. sooooooo I am buying his RC D30

A few years down the road Ill buy a D44 out of a Rubicon.

Originally posted by chico
I'd just save save the money you would be throwing into that 30 or 44 and get a 60. It uses a lot of the same parts as most 30s including the 297 u-joints.

:confused: :eek: :confused: Ummmm, No it doesn't. :rolleyes:

What u-joints does it have then? I thought it was the same crap that currie sold basicly, which re-uses a lot of 30 stuff...:rolleyes:

Originally posted by coachgeo


how is a RC 30 more of a turd than a Regular 44

My understanding is housing strength, gear strength and shaft strength.

Originally posted by Keith Strong


My understanding is housing strength, gear strength and shaft strength.

Housing and shaft yes.. Gear no..... cause the RC improves strenght of front applications 15-20% making the gears near or equal to a regular D44 in front. yes.. not as strong as an RC D44 in front.

Housing strenth is not really an issue or concern in my book, since I know Ill never go over 37" tires and I dont launch and land my TJ. Does anyone disagree?

Shaft strenth.... is then the only issue... Stock lenght Chromolly solves that and they wont have to be custom cut which is better on the $$$

Originally posted by coachgeo


Housing and shaft yes.. Gear no..... cause the RC improves strenght of front applications 15-20% making the gears near or equal to a regular D44 in front. yes.. not as strong as an RC D44 in front.

Housing strenth is not really an issue or concern in my book, since I know Ill never go over 37" tires and I dont launch and land my TJ. Does anyone disagree?

Shaft strenth.... is then the only issue... Stock lenght Chromolly solves that and they wont have to be custom cut which is better on the $$$

37 seems like an awful big tire for a D30 to me. I ran 35's and was sweatin it. Personally, I think 35's are the most I would ever run.

Also, if you are gonna run warn shafts, etc, why not just do the 44 swap? It seems to me you have to make the EFFORT to make a 30 work, when a 44 is much easier. In fact, there is a Ford Rev cut D44 in for sale right now thats a hell of a deal. Just my opinion, D30's suck and arent worth spitting at, let alone spending money on.

I installed one out an xj on my tj this weekend. Haven't gotten a chance to test it though

Originally posted by chico
What u-joints does it have then? I thought it was the same crap that currie sold basicly, which re-uses a lot of 30 stuff...:rolleyes:

Only the ABS ones use the 297 joints. and that is the ONLY thing it has in common with a 44. I dont know on XJ's or TJ's, but the only YJ with rev cut 30's and 297's are 1995 model with ABS brakes.

Originally posted by Keith Strong


37 seems like an awful big tire for a D30 to me. I ran 35's and was sweatin it...

Did you break it while running 35's? And what? (I know they break. I am just curious.)

I am another poor college student. I am already geared. And now I wanna run bigger tires. Upgrading to a D44 is not a cheap option. If I NEED to upgrade later I will.

Jared

Originally posted by Wheelr


Did you break it while running 35's? And what? (I know they break. I am just curious.)

I am another poor college student. I am already geared. And now I wanna run bigger tires. Upgrading to a D44 is not a cheap option. If I NEED to upgrade later I will.

Jared

Ive run 35's since 2000 on my 97TJ, before that I ran 33's, all with a Dana 30 and never broke an axil.. (front or back... back is a D44, and I have a 4:1) and yes I wheeeeel. (AZ, CO, UT, CA, NV, and now OH, PA)

I also am a daily driver. Im a technical driver.. if a line aint working.. I back up and try a differne line... I listen to my spotters... I have too.... this is the ONLY form of transport I have. My ego can handle not being able to conquir something.. Im a former national ranked athlete... Ive had my spotlight... its ok if I dont WIN over that damn wall Im trying to climb... the process of trying is fun enough these days.

OMG... :rolleyes: The only thing stronger on a RC D30 compared to a regular ol' D30, is the gear set. That is it.

Now if your are going to compare it to D44, why not compare it to a RC D44? Those exist too you know. So compared to a RC D44, YES the D30 is a basically a turd. And no, it does NOT share any related components to a D60.

So lets think about this... RC D44 - Strong gearset, knuckles, housing, axles and in most cases u-joints.

So coachgeo, since you already have and ARB for your D30 and do not want to buy a new one, go ahead an get the other D30. You will have yourself and extra set of shafts, brackets, knuckles, hubs, etc... from your standard D30. Then sell that setup when you want to go for a D44.

So there you have it.

BTW - not to start shit, but Chico - your an idiot. :flipoff2:

Thanks for the support herzog.. What u stated is exactly why Im taking the RC30 gamble. The left over shafts.. the cost SAVINGS (aprx 300-500 dollar savings).. and I end up with the near strenght of a D44. Lots of folks swap in regular waggy D44's and im ending up with about the equivalant.

As to why I compared the RC- D30 do the D44 because they are closer to being Apple to Apple. A RC-D30 is not close enough for comparision... (maybe even Apple to Turd. ) compared to an RC-D44 or 60. Also the comparision to a D44 is good cause that is a common swap int TJ's and apparently the D44 in the Rubicon is also not a RC D44.

Originally posted by Herzog
OMG... :rolleyes: The only thing stronger on a RC D30 compared to a regular ol' D30, is the gear set. That is it.

Now if your are going to compare it to D44, why not compare it to a RC D44? Those exist too you know. So compared to a RC D44, YES the D30 is a basically a turd. And no, it does NOT share any related components to a D60.

So lets think about this... RC D44 - Strong gearset, knuckles, housing, axles and in most cases u-joints.

So coachgeo, since you already have and ARB for your D30 and do not want to buy a new one, go ahead an get the other D30. You will have yourself and extra set of shafts, brackets, knuckles, hubs, etc... from your standard D30. Then sell that setup when you want to go for a D44.

So there you have it.

BTW - not to start shit, but Chico - your an idiot. :flipoff2:

:)http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

Originally posted by Wheelr


Did you break it while running 35's? And what? (I know they break. I am just curious.)


Actually no, but I believe the only reason is because I was OPEN in the front and very light on the go juice.

I did HAMMER a D35 rear with only a limited slip on 33's though :rolleyes:

Now I have a rev cut 44 and I have already broke shit. Course I now have 38's and I like to push that fun pedal pretty hard :D:D:D

I agree, if you got all the crap go Rev 30, I personally wouldnt, but if it works for you..........:beer:

you poor college students wouldn't be so poor if you went to fawkin work or did your homework instead of wasting space on the pirate board!:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Herzog

BTW - not to start shit, but Chico - your an idiot. :flipoff2:

And you LIVE in Utah. :flipoff2:

Do whatever you want, but I hate to see misinformation...

NO WAY is an RC 30 R&P assembly anywhere near as strong as a standard cut 44 R&P assembly--Even when both in a front-axle application.

According to what I read in Jim Allen's Jeep Performance Hanbook: Apples to apples, a 44 R&P is approximately 100% stronger than a 30 R&P assembly. (U-joints notwithstanding)

A reverse cut design nets you about a 20% increase in strength ONLY WHEN USED IN A FRONT AXLE and ONLY WHILE PROPELLING THE JEEP IN A FORWARD DIRECTION. (Ever use reverse?)

That still leaves the RC 30 R&P approximately 80% behind in torque-handling capability. To put it another way, a 44 R&P pushing on the "weak side" of the gear teeth is still about 80% strronger than a 30 pushing on the "strong side."

Delude yourselves into believing whatever you like and spend your money accordingly, but don't try to justify it here.

HTH,
Jake

Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama
...........To put it another way, a 44 R&P pushing on the "weak side" of the gear teeth is still about 80% strronger than a 30 pushing on the "strong side."

Jake

Thank You for the info. You are the only one who has backed up statements with data. Thats what I came to the board for. Wish you had piped in earlier, that is just luck of the draw.

Anyway... Ill be a little stronger for a while and for sure now won't move up tire sizes beyond my 35's.

Originally posted by FULLSIZE
you poor college students wouldn't be so poor if you went to fawkin work or did your homework instead of wasting space on the pirate board!:flipoff2:


BAHAHAHAHAHAHA :flipoff2::flipoff2:

Originally posted by coachgeo

Wish you had piped in earlier...


LOL :laughing:

Actually, I had a response mostly typed out two days ago after the first bunch of posts saying basically the same thing. I started doing something else and my computer crashed. so I just thought 'screw it.' But after I saw all those other posts I got to feeling bad and typed it all out again.

There's nothing WRONG with the Dana 30. Especially the Reverse Cut. I had one on my YJ for several years and it held up to 35s with 260-X U-joints for most of a year. (Admittedly, my tired old 258 and tall stock gears probably had a lot to do with that...) It's a good little axle that does exactly what it was designed to do. It just doesn't hold up for long when asked to withstand big tires, low gears, and lots of power. It's just that most of the people who frequent this board are just so skewed toward the hardcore end of the spectrum, that that's the opinion you'll generally get around here...

I highly recommend that book by Jim Allen for anyone interested in modifying their Jeep. There is a WEALTH of information to be had there... It takes a much more balanced, moderate approach to Jeep mods than you'll find around here with an emphasis on keeping the vehicle streetable while increasing off-road performance. It explains the hows and the whys of what you're doing and the pros and cons of each choice.

HTH,
Jake

Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama


LOL :laughing:

Actually, I had a response mostly typed out two days ago after the first bunch of posts saying basically the same thing. I started doing something else and my computer crashed. so I just thought 'screw it.' But after I saw all those other posts I got to feeling bad and typed it all out again...............

HTH,
Jake

Go figure... Ive been searching for RC44 that fit my budget for about a month or so. Then I got offered a fair price for a bolt up HP 30 and bought it.. and just after that decison some Bare bone RC44's for 75 buks came available. At.. that price i coulda maybe matched what im doing to the 30 cost to cost. Oh well.. I Still think the beefed RC 30 esp if I add chromolly and CTMs will be fine ..... not over kill.. but maybe right on the line of Ok and not so ok.... esp. since I have yet to break a shaft in my regular 30 w/ 35's and a 4:1.

Originally posted by chico


And you LIVE in Utah. :flipoff2:

Yeah... mountains, rocks, and Moab. What is wrong with that? And I hope that you are not assuming that I am a mormon. Not everybody from Utah is mormon... :rolleyes:

Why don't you go hang out at the beach. :flipoff2:

or take this to Chit Chat...

Wow! :eek:
I've never seen so much incorrect "info" in one thread. I'd clarify- but I'd be quoting the whole damn thread!

Originally posted by Slagburn
Wow! :eek:
I've never seen so much incorrect "info" in one thread. I'd clarify- but I'd be quoting the whole damn thread!

Then just throw out what ya know.... please. Thats why I asked questions

Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama
Do whatever you want, but I hate to see misinformation...

NO WAY is an RC 30 R&P assembly anywhere near as strong as a standard cut 44 R&P assembly--Even when both in a front-axle application.

According to what I read in Jim Allen's Jeep Performance Hanbook: Apples to apples, a 44 R&P is approximately 100% stronger than a 30 R&P assembly. (U-joints notwithstanding)

A reverse cut design nets you about a 20% increase in strength ONLY WHEN USED IN A FRONT AXLE and ONLY WHILE PROPELLING THE JEEP IN A FORWARD DIRECTION. (Ever use reverse?)

That still leaves the RC 30 R&P approximately 80% behind in torque-handling capability. To put it another way, a 44 R&P pushing on the "weak side" of the gear teeth is still about 80% strronger than a 30 pushing on the "strong side."

Delude yourselves into believing whatever you like and spend your money accordingly, but don't try to justify it here.

HTH,
Jake

Hmn, did you ever wonder what the model designations meant?
D-44= 4400lb GVW vehicle for that axle
D-35- 3500lb GVW vehicle for that axle
(grantd, I could be wrong, I heard this from an engineer with Dana Corporation)

How is that 900lbs translating to 100% more strength?

Originally posted by Grendel


Hmn, did you ever wonder what the model designations meant?
D-44= 4400lb GVW vehicle for that axle
D-35- 3500lb GVW vehicle for that axle
(grantd, I could be wrong, I heard this from an engineer with Dana Corporation)

How is that 900lbs translating to 100% more strength?

yeahhh I wish I knew the actual quote he was refering to so I could try to infrance if that was a personal opinoun of the books author or if he was talking technical data.

It would be nice to know.

i just want to know how much you pay yourself? if you paid yourself , say $10 an hour fawkin with this post, you could have bought a 60 for the front and the rear. get over the 44 vs. 30 debate. a 44 is stronger. and what the hell does a 35 got to do with it? fawkin morons.......................... and if you have any problems with this reply, bring it! i got a dana 44 i'll put up against any rev. 30!!!!! :flipoff2:

Originally posted by FULLSIZE
i just want to know how much you pay yourself? if you paid yourself , say $10 an hour fawkin with this post, you could have bought a 60 for the front and the rear. get over the 44 vs. 30 debate. a 44 is stronger. and what the hell does a 35 got to do with it? fawkin morons.......................... and if you have any problems with this reply, bring it! i got a dana 44 i'll put up against any rev. 30!!!!! :flipoff2:

you hit the nail on the head. The time this post takes for me (my r&d) is my free time and unless u want to pay me... I dont get paid for it, so it just saves me extra $$.

Going with the RCD30 set up will save me aprx. 300-500 dollars and net me a front end stronger than I have now as well as, spare parts, and if the plan goes as intended it will hold me over fine till the Rubicon is not uncommon in the junk yard. Then Ill snag a 44 that is bolt in... orrr... Ill sell my rig to a newbie and buy a used rubicon as my base to build a new rig on.

In the mean time Ill keep improving as a driver by learning to climb shit that some other hard core folk do but, with out breaking things. No.. I dont expect to be going thru LIttle Sluice type obsticals. I will try it and will be happy to back out if its just aint going to work with my set up, and esp. if its holding up the line and waisting the time of others ready to get it awwwn too.

Originally posted by Grendel


Hmn, did you ever wonder what the model designations meant?
D-44= 4400lb GVW vehicle for that axle
D-35- 3500lb GVW vehicle for that axle
(grantd, I could be wrong, I heard this from an engineer with Dana Corporation)

How is that 900lbs translating to 100% more strength?

I have wondered, but that explanation doesn't make much sense. Does that mean the load carrying capacity of the axle? So If a Jeep is equipped with a D30 and a D35 does it have 6500 lb weight rating? Or was that an explanation for 2WD vehicles (which makes more sense)? What does a standard TJ weigh? My guess is with passengers, it weighs more than 3500 lbs. Does that mean Chrysler knows it is putting weaker axles than are reccomended by the axle manufacturer?

In any case, that is load carrying capacity. I would be interested in seeing what a D30 and D44 R&P are rating in terms of torque capacity since that's what we're really concerned about.

Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep


I have wondered, but that explanation doesn't make much sense. Does that mean the load carrying capacity of the axle? So If a Jeep is equipped with a D30 and a D35 does it have 6500 lb weight rating? Or was that an explanation for 2WD vehicles (which makes more sense)? What does a standard TJ weigh? My guess is with passengers, it weighs more than 3500 lbs. Does that mean Chrysler knows it is putting weaker axles than are reccomended by the axle manufacturer?

In any case, that is load carrying capacity. I would be interested in seeing what a D30 and D44 R&P are rating in terms of torque capacity since that's what we're really concerned about.

Yeah the per axle rating of gvw is a good question. Som guys with very dedicated off road rigs are weight their rigs and comming up with near 5 thousand but they are usually running 60's.

ANYONE know this answer? What about Torque capacities?

I believe it's an torque rating for a typical type GVW. Possible breaking pint of the axle?

We're also talking about stock vehicles. Not many 3K lb vehicles with 350's or 454's either.

Originally posted by Grendel


Hmn, did you ever wonder what the model designations meant?
D-44= 4400lb GVW vehicle for that axle
D-35- 3500lb GVW vehicle for that axle
(grantd, I could be wrong, I heard this from an engineer with Dana Corporation)

How is that 900lbs translating to 100% more strength?

Grendel:

Torque capacity and load carrying capacity are two totally different and separate things. I was speaking specifically about the torque capacity of the ring and pinion. (which, if you'd my post read more carefully, you would've noticed.)

The load carrying ability really isn't much of an issue unless you're jumping your Jeep, since they don't weigh much. I've seen a lot more broken R&Ps and U-joints on the trail than I have broken spindles...

The limiting factor in both axles is the U-joint anyway, but you can always get CTMs and Warn shafts making R&P strength a relevant issue....


The rest of ya:

Buy the book if you don't believe me.


:flipoff2: ,
Jake

Originally posted by coachgeo


yeahhh I wish I knew the actual quote he was refering to so I could try to infrance if that was a personal opinoun of the books author or if he was talking technical data.

It would be nice to know.

The specific quote in the book just states it without referencing anything. However, the book as a whole seems VERY well-researched. I would be very surprised if he'd just thrown out a number like that without checking with Dana Spicer first.

Jake

Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama


The limiting factor in both axles is the U-joint anyway, but you can always get CTMs and Warn shafts making R&P strength a relevant issue....


:flipoff2: ,
Jake

What's going to break?
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49905 :D :D :D

one out of how many? i've seen 6 sets of rev rotation dana 30 4.56 gears warrantied in the last 3 months at my friends shop due to breakage..........:rolleyes: you got to have something better than this.............shit now you have me argueing this:flipoff2: