Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week

The subject for the week is home grown axle narrowing/widening.

Yeah, this topic has been covered several dozen times in various threads, so let's get the best of the best.

What's the best way to get the inner C off the housing?
What's the best way to re-tube a housing?
How to properly align the ends on a rear housing?

I figured I would cut the tube at the length I want.
Set up the cut section of tube and "C" in a lathe and turn down the weld.
Split the remaining tube section (use a sawzall to cut?)
Press out tube section.
Heat up "C" and press it onto housing/tube and re-weld.

Confused yet?.............good, so am I. :D
Does this sound OK?
I'm wandering about setting the caster. Should I mark the tube and "C" with a chisel point or something before cutting the tube?
Then just line those marks up when I press the "C" back on?

I'm also interested in aligning the ends of a "rear" housing.
Do you make a jig? say a piece of round stock about 1.125" or so. Then make collars the same inner diameter as the round stock and same outer diameters as the carrier and wheel bearings?
How do you guys do these things?

For the rear do exactly what you said. machine discs to fit the bearings and I use a 1.5" tube to run through. I made a d60 last winter using weld on ends from moser (semi-float), and this year did a 9". The 9" was easier. Just cut the tubes where they meet the housing, press it back in to the right length, put the alignment jig in and weld it.

Here is a rear 60 jiged up ready to be welded
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/60jig1.jpg
Here is what the 60 jigs look like that I made for someone here on the board. Thread on the spindle, slide it on the bar and start welding.
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/60jig3.jpg
Here is how I remove the C's
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/44c3.jpg
I use a torch and cut some slots in the piece left in the C so I can pound them out.
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/44c1.jpg
If you go through all this work why not shave it down too. Here is a 44 and a 60
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/shaved442.jpg
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/shaved605.jpg

Excellent topic. I already narrowed my D44 front - easy. Now on to the SF D60 rear. I have the housing cut down and new moser 9" ends I need the alignment pucks - anybody sell them for a resonable sum?

i narrowed my 44 to 63. why? all you have to do is chop 4 inches of the long side. if it is a chevy 44 it will fit between the springs w/o going outboard and will use the stock chevy mount in the housing. you can use scout shaft on the long side and stock chevy on the short (no custom shafts = good). then you get a 14b outa a C&C and your done.

Originally posted by 66CJdean
Here is a rear 60 jiged up ready to be welded
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/60jig1.jpg
Here is what the 60 jigs look like that I made for someone here on the board. Thread on the spindle, slide it on the bar and start welding.
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/60jig3.jpg
Here is how I remove the C's
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/44c3.jpg
I use a torch and cut some slots in the piece left in the C so I can pound them out.
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/44c1.jpg
If you go through all this work why not shave it down too. Here is a 44 and a 60
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/shaved442.jpg
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/shaved605.jpg


Dean,
You sure do nice work.
I would love to put a wish list of fabbrications on my windshield, and leave my rig parked in that shop of yours, for about a month.

One of my favorite lines from you, when you were fabricating my hydraulic ram mount, on your phsuedo NASA computerized mill...
ME:"that bracket is awsome,..but, why are you cutting all the trick ovals into it?".
YOU:"Because, I can!"

One of my favorite lines from you
ME:"that bracket is awsome,..but, why are you cutting all the trick ovals into it?".
YOU:"Because, I can!" [/B][/QUOTE]

Hehe, yeah that sounds like Dean allright.
His knowledge and skill makes me laugh at my own.

I'm still curious about setting up the caster on the "C" when reinstalling it onto the tube.
As well as the best way to instal the "C". beat it on or press it?

Shaving the housing, Hmmm. I don't have the balls yet to try that on my RC Dana60. maybe after I do a few others. :D

Dean, I understand that you put 14 bolt outers on a Dana60 rear?
Could you maybe shed some light?

If you find the right housings, you can get a 9" center and a 14bolt, both with the same diameter tubes. Cut the tubes outa each, put the 14 bolt tubes in the 9" center, align it up and go.

I bought my alignment bar from Dutchman, and had the pucks made locally. I had mine made so the same pucks will work on a 9", and D60.

To set caster, I use a piece of all-thread the same diameter as the inside of the steering arm cones. Run the all-thread through the balljoint holes, put the cones on the rod, and snug em up to the ends of the "C". This self-centeres the rod between the holes. Then put a angle finder on the rod to measure.

The first page I ever saw on shorting an axle on the net was authored by John N, here is the current page:
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/tech/axle/conv/dana44/fsj-cj/

I was narrowing a Ford HP Dana 44 axle to use FSJ wag shafts.
Ford inside long shaft is only 1" longer than 80's Wag long shaft
Ford inside stub shaft is ~5" longer that 80's Wag long shaft.
So you can shorten a Ford HP axle and gain ~6" with FSJ Wag shafts. I ended up staying full size.

The pics above are 60 spindles on a 60 but the 14B are done the same way. With the 14B you just don't need to bore them out is all that is the only difference. Here are the 60 spindles bored out.
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/60spindle.jpg
I always try to put the weld as close to the spindle as possible so it is the same job 60 or 14.
To the point about looking for the same OD it doesn't really matter. Jig it, weld it, and call it good.

Originally posted by JEEPRZ

To set caster, I use a piece of all-thread the same diameter as the inside of the steering arm cones. Run the all-thread through the balljoint holes, put the cones on the rod, and snug em up to the ends of the "C". This self-centeres the rod between the holes. Then put a angle finder on the rod to measure.

O.K. I see how it works now, thanks alot.

When pulling the tubes out of my RC44 we ended up trashing a few carbide endmills on the mill. (Probably our fault) So instead of removing the plug welds that way, I used a tap burner, and burned through all the plug welds on one side of the housing in about 15min. I know not everyone has acess to one, but it is really easy:)

Dean,

What would a set of those jigs cost or whould you rent them out for a HP 60 housing with 14 bolt outers?

Thanks :D

Nothing tech to add :rolleyes: but I just wanted to say thanks cause I am learning a lot on this thread ;)

For the 14/60 ff jigs they go for $200. They take while to make but they do work on 60 or 14 bolt ends, same jig.

To remove the plug welds use a torch. The heat effected zone from the weld will be extremly hard and will eat bit for lunch.

To set the cast I just use the flat spot where the ball joint goes and check it with a magnetic base angle finder. Clean up the tube and the C's real well and get my big copper hammer and go to town beating them back on.

I'll assume that the same applies to king pin style knuckles.
(setting the caster)
Dean, I'll be in touch about those end jigs. :D

Oh, and I need to clear up one last thing. :rolleyes:
If your cutting down a rear, whats the best route to take.
Do you remove plug welds and pull the tubes out of the housing to cut. OR Do you cut the tubes at the ends and re instal the flanges? Probably doesn't matter but, I had to ask :D

As long as we are on the topic, how about some insite on chopping a front GM 60 to fit nicely under my CJ. I don't want to run full width. Will 62 inches work ok? How much difference is there between a dueally and a single wheel hub in wms? I picked up 2 Chevy K30 axles for $500. One is less spindles, caliper mounts, and hubs, and the other is less hubs.

Well good question. Let break it down. A Chevy 60 will be 69.5 WMS to WMS and you want it to be 62 so that means you need to cut off 7.5"
The spring pin center to center will be 32" on the chevy and you need 27.5" for a jeep so that is 4.5"
So since the spring pad on the short side is going to stay where it is the extra 4.5" has to come off the long side. So we know that 4.5" need to come off the long side due to moving the spring pad so that leaves 3" to be devided up between both sides.
So take 4.5 + 1.5 = 6" off the long side and 1.5" off the short side.

If I were you I would build it 60" wide because you are going to want to run 2.5" or 2" backspacing wheels to clear the brakes. My 60's are 60" with 2" backspacing on the wheels and it is 83.750" wide outside to outside. Also you probably won't be able to respline the axle with only 1.5" taken off due to the relief they cut into it at the end of the splines but 2.5" shouldn't be a problem.

Originally posted by 66CJdean
Well good question. Let break it down. A Chevy 60 will be 69.5 WMS to WMS and you want it to be 62 so that means you need to cut off 7.5"
The spring pin center to center will be 32" on the chevy and you need 27.5" for a jeep so that is 4.5"
So since the spring pad on the short side is going to stay where it is the extra 4.5" has to come off the long side. So we know that 4.5" need to come off the long side due to moving the spring pad so that leaves 3" to be devided up between both sides.
So take 4.5 + 1.5 = 6" off the long side and 1.5" off the short side.

If I were you I would build it 60" wide because you are going to want to run 2.5" or 2" backspacing wheels to clear the brakes. My 60's are 60" with 2" backspacing on the wheels and it is 83.750" wide outside to outside. Also you probably won't be able to respline the axle with only 1.5" taken off due to the relief they cut into it at the end of the splines but 2.5" shouldn't be a problem.


Dean, this should also work well for a GM or Ford Dana 44 if I'm not mistaken, and use the wagoneer short side axle from an 80-84 wagoneer. The warn axle chart list this as 15.8" and a GM as 18.31". Giving you 2.5" off the short side. Cut the long tube on a RC Ford 44 to match this and retube the short side to make it the long side using a axle cut to 29.1. Grind the perch relief in the housing and weld perch on at 27.5". GM should be easier as no need to retube just cut and reassemble, perch may need to be ground to adjust pinion angle.
With the GM and the early Dana 44 spindles and Ford rotors and hubs, it's a little narrower than the 6 lug or all Ford this way isn't it, say right at 59?
I know this is about the most common thing to do, but I wanted to check my numbers, to look at the witdh I will use for a rear 60. I am looking at 58 to match the GM front axle with Ford hubs.
Thanks, Andy :)

Dean,

I like the work you did with the front 60 but my question is, arent you essentially making it narrower by just cutting of the "C" and then pound the tube out of it, before you pound it back on to the tube? Am I understanding what you are doing right? If you are not narrowing the axle, then what is your trick to make sure it is the proper width?

Thanks,



Ryan

Yes you are right. By cutting off the C you will narrow it down by that much and if you need more then cut the tube again now that the C is off.

I used Dean's Jigs to mutate a ford 9" with 14 bolt ends. I wasn't so much after the 35 spline, but a full floater that didn't rely on a bolt on kit. I also wanted the gear contact and double pinion support that the 9" provides, without the additional weight of a whole 14 bolt housing. The 14 bolt shafts are large enough to respline for a 31 spline Ford carrier. I went to 8 lug 15" wheels so I could continue to use my almost new M/T's, and had to grind about 3/8" to 1/2" off the outer half of the top surface of the calipers to clear. I also used weld on brackets from A-A Mfg for the calipers, but to clear the 3/4 ton rotors (mounted behind the hub) I had to do a little "fill" welding. They are working great. I am using 2.5" BDS YJ springs on the scrambler, and it twists up pretty decent so far.

For the front, I took a 3/4 ton Chevy dana 44 and cut 6" off the long side, and 2" off the short side. This required both custom length shafts, and the right side was not able to be re-splined as Dean mentioned due to the neck down section of the shaft. If I were to do it again, I'd shorten each side to be able to use stock length shafts from other applications. This will offset the axle slightly to one side, but it wouldn't really be all that noticeable.

Steering has been a royal PITA for this one, though. With the location of the pitman arm and the steering box, I can't put hi steer on, unless I only move the drag link to the passenger side knuckle and leave the tie rod in the stock location. Otherwise, the process I used is as Dean described for the cut and weld portions.

I'm in the process of making a SF narrowing jig for a 60, What is the minimum diameter for the thru rod?? Iam thinkin 1" since I already have a good lenght of it, or do I need somethin beefier hold em in place for weldin??
btw, Kickass TOTW,
thanks:D

Originally posted by doctor_G

If your cutting down a rear, whats the best route to take.
Do you remove plug welds and pull the tubes out of the housing to cut. OR Do you cut the tubes at the ends and re instal the flanges? Probably doesn't matter but, I had to ask :D

No comment? :(

66 here is my plan so far. The Chevy front 60 is about 69 wms. A early Dodge is 67 in wms. The long side axle shaft is the same part number. The short side is about 1 7/8 inch shorter on the Dodge. I bought 2 short side shafts and chopped the Chevy axle down to fit them. Then I measured from the cast in center bolt hole over 27 1/2 inches and set the purch (width of the CJ frame). Then I matched the distance out from the short side and chopped the long side to match. I think overall I cut about 8 inches out of it, and only had to have the long sides re-splined. (sending a pair of new shafts to Moser tonight)

I am not too sure about how much pinion angle I should add, if any. On one axle I ground the purch down about 4 degrees, I left the other alone. I also tried to keep the caster the same as a stock, and didn't weld the C's on yet.(waiting to get it on the alignment rack to do that) This it the method I used on my front Chevy 44 that I have in there now (using a Wagoneer's short side) and I worked out perfect. One of my axles have about 8 degrees pinion up from a level perch and the other is about 12 degrees.

I am also a little in the dark about the actual wms surface of these axles. I only have one set of hubs, which are for a dually, I can't afford a set of single axle hubs yet ($300 ea. new with rotors) So far I am doing pretty good with prices. The inner axle shafts new were $80 each, and the 35 spline outers were $370 with Warn hubs. Both axles cost me $500. with about another $250 for the deally hubs, spindles, and caliper brackets. Both have a good set of 4.56 gears open carrier. I still need to buy a Detroit, or should I just weld them?

hey dean get back to me i wanna buy some of those 60 to 14b jigs....
336-986-5337
shawn

Originally posted by doctor_G


No comment? :(

Cut the flanges off. If you yank the tubes and re-cut you have to remachine for the seals and I believe that the outside of the tubes are turned down slightly to fit into the pumpkin (On dana axles anyway)

How to approach the "C" (referred to as knuckle hereafter) depends on what you're after. If narrowing the axle then you're probably better off cutting the knuckle off and removing the remaining tube with a lathe (or grinder) and a press. When simply rotating the knuckles I've found it easiest to use a cutoff disc (1/8" grinding disc) in a grinder and grind radially as close as possible to the knuckle (gotta get behind the weld penetration). Do this all the way around until you're down to the tube all the way around (use a light and look in the groove... compare depth to the axle tube on the other side of the weld). Then use a BFH and knuck the knuckle off the tube. I tried like hell to get the bugger to rotate, but wouldn't even budge. Knocked it off the tube no problem. Cleaned it up and tossed it in the oven to 400 degrees. Went to work cleaning up the tube (grind / cut off remaining weld and fill any grooves with weld where you cut too deep and into the tube). When the tube is all cleaned up position the pinion where you want it, place the vehicle weight on the axle (and sitting level) using jack stands, bring out the knuckle from the oven, slide it on the tube (light tapping may be required), tap it into position (depth on the tube and desired caster) and once it cools its on there. Weld it up and you're done. Generally 4 to 8 degrees of caster is a good target.

Takes about 15 minutes to remove the knuckle once you get the hang of it.

That said, rotating the pinion and/or narrowing front axles is cake. The rears are a different story since you have to use a jig and align the bearings. I haven't done this yet so I won't comment further on narrowing rears. I haven't played with retubing axles yet either, but that seems straightforward as long as you have a capable press. Narrowing or rotating front axles is surprisingly easy though. That heated knuckle trick works great, but you have to move fast. As soon as you slide it on the tube it cools down fast!

Don't pull the tubes unless you like allot of unessisary work. Cut the spindle off at the end of the tube right where they welded it on, then cut the tube again to cut it down to the width you want. You won't need to turn the inside of the tube for a seal unless it is for a frontend.
One thing to note is that when you make the cut at the spindle on the end of the tube it will be very thick like 3/4" so be ready to cut.
So where I am rewelding this spindle is right where the factory weld used to be so if it was good enough for them then it is good enough for me. Also note the bevel on the end of the tube and the spindle looks the same.
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/60jig1.jpg

To answer another question a 1" bar would work for a SF but I prefer my 1.5" but the 1" will be fine. Align it, put on 4 tac welds, and then 2 passes.

you selling those jigs or whay dean let me know....

The 60/14B jigs go for $200pr. Like these
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/60jig3.jpg

I need a set of those check your PM's Dean.

what exactly is involved in machining out the tube for the seal?

and what would be the best way to make a passenger side drop high pinion 44 using wagoneer axle shafts? retube a ford axle, or take a waggy axle, pull the tubes, and stick them in the HP housing?

hey dean i need a set of those email me at tj7@triad.rr.com or call me at 336-986-5337 i have 1 quick question will those jigs slide right into dom tubing of(3.0 OD X .5 WALL) i am sure it will but im just checking to be sure i want and need a set let me know....

Originally posted by CJ5-man
what exactly is involved in machining out the tube for the seal?

and what would be the best way to make a passenger side drop high pinion 44 using wagoneer axle shafts? retube a ford axle, or take a waggy axle, pull the tubes, and stick them in the HP housing?

Well the machine the seal you must first have a lathe (a big lathe helps) and turn the inside of the tube that is inside the housing to the ID needed for the seal.

To make a high pinion 44 that fits a Jeep you will need to use a ford housing and retube the long side.

What a great TOTW!
There's nothing like working on some good tech for a change.
Thanks, (everyone) for helping me out. I will be cutting down a front and rear 60 this summer as well as a 44 for a friend.
Thanks again guys. :beer:

Originally posted by 66CJdean


Well the machine the seal you must first have a lathe (a big lathe helps) and turn the inside of the tube that is inside the housing to the ID needed for the seal.

To make a high pinion 44 that fits a Jeep you will need to use a ford housing and retube the long side.

Is just swapping the tubes between the waggy 44 and ford 44 not an option?

and I agree w/ Doctor_G, this is by far the best topic of the week. Maybe we should keep it for 2 weeks while the suggestions box fills up?

Swapping the tubes is not an option. It's a bitch but not an option. To pull the tubes you would have to torch out the plug welds and those leave pretty large holes in the tubes.

Here is a article that swapped tubes:

http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2000/hpd44front/hpd44front.cfm

I noticed that the high 44 Fords have very thin tubes. They are also a little larger in diameter than most 44's. I think they are the same OD as an Chevy HD 44. I always thought it would be feasable to turn down a Chevy's 44 tube to a press fit ID of the Ford's 44. Build it something like Mike Knorr did on his 60 article, but instead of having a sleeve, just turn down the chevy tube to the proper diameter. Hell, if you designed it right, you wouldn't even have to cut off the "c" on the long side.

Here is Mikes 60 link.
http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2001/hpd60front/

This would also have the added benefit of the super thick Chevy tubes. Trust me, you don't want to try to remove the tubes and re-make some inner axle seals. Just not worth my time and $ to go there.

Originally posted by dorfs
I noticed that the high 44 Fords have very thin tubes This is only true for the 78-79 Bronco and 1/2 ton PU. All 75 and Pre tubes have 1/2" thick tubes. I had a 79 that had a 1/4" tick center tube. Stay away from 78-79 Bronco and 1/2 ton PU Dana 44's.

I'm sure everyone here knows this one, but i'll post it anyways:
start with 3/4 ton chev D44 front. Grind welds for innner knuckles (C's) till you can see seporation. Grab the BFH, knock the C's off. Cut tubes down to same lenght(measure from tube end to ring gear surface on carrier) as the scout D44. move pertches to whatever width you need. install in truck, torque u-bolts up. set caster by hammering c's on, putting outer knuckles on, and tapping them till you get what you want. I used a consruction-style magnetic angle finder to set the angle. use scout outer knuckles, not chev. tack c's in place. take frontend out, weld inner knuckle in place. assemble using scout shafts and outer everything. works smooth with a scout rear.
Why do this? Oiling problems whe running scout D44's SOA, .500 wall tubes, perfect width for CJ's not wanting full width. Hven't used one of these in a CJ yet, but did one for my brother's scout, and it worked out really well.

Since we are on the subject, Lets get the story straight in the welding of cast to steel such as tubes to cast Knuckles.

Like procedures to take, ie preheating if need be and what rod to use.



I for one tried the Nickle rod but havent had any luck.

Since I am no expert, I will let the higher powers say the specifics on the subject.

For the 14/60 FF rears, when you cut the spindle mount off of the tube end, you bevel the tube end. i understand this much, but, how are the spindle mounts prepped? did you just remove all the weld material or bevel it or what. from the pics and posts, you re-used the spindle mounts. are there any companies that sell these new for the 14? from what i have found, moser engineering sells housing ends for a 60, but the site didnt say if it were SF or FF.

and lastly, does the carrier need to be removed to use the jig? the reason i ask is that i have seen some pics where it was, with the rod going through the entire housing, and then i have read other places that the rod was short so that you could do only one side at a time. go ahead,,, flame me:eek:

Just a quick note from my experience. When narrowing a front 44 make sure the inner C does NOT sit flush with the end of the axle tube. I bought a narrowed 44 front from a jackass here who said it was professionally done. and I had to grind the tube down so that the u-joint assm. would not bind. Iwas doing a 5 on 5.5 swap on my CJ and it took about a month of pulling the front end apart and reassembling to finally figure out that the C's where just on too far. You want to have a 1/4" of recessed axle tube to make sure to not have any issues. If you have any questions on this let me know.

and lastly, does the carrier need to be removed to use the jig? the reason i ask is that i have seen some pics where it was, with the rod going through the entire housing, and then i have read other places that the rod was short so that you could do only one side at a time. go ahead,,, flame me:eek:

Yes, at least the way we do it.

You pull the carrier and put the pucks in where where the carrier bearings go. Then use the cap to pull it tight. The setup we use has a puck for each cap, and then one on the end that will locate the housing end. This gives three points for the bar to slide through the pucks, hopefully causing them to be straight.

JonnyJ has it dead on.

You guys that are building 9" and are just cutting the tube out, where do you cut? I take it that the tube is slipped into the center of the housing a ways and then welded. Do you just cut through the welds on the ends of the center section plates? Or cut the whole tube off? Either way I thought there was more holding that tube in. Do you need to turn the OD of the tube in order to slip it back in? I remember some guys in arizona were modifying toyota housings by cutting the tubes out and using thicker tubes. Is this the same idea? Seems like they had to cut quite a bit out.

Just curious. Been thinking of doing a 35spline high pinion 9".

Kevo

You guys that are building 9" and are just cutting the tube out, where do you cut? I take it that the tube is slipped into the center of the housing a ways and then welded. Do you just cut through the welds on the ends of the center section plates? Or cut the whole tube off? Either way I thought there was more holding that tube in. Do you need to turn the OD of the tube in order to slip it back in? I remember some guys in arizona were modifying toyota housings by cutting the tubes out and using thicker tubes. Is this the same idea? Seems like they had to cut quite a bit out.

Just curious. Been thinking of doing a 35spline high pinion 9".

Kevo

Your overcomplicating things. You cut the end of the tube, and weld a new end on. You only remove the tubes from the center if you want thicker ones, or if your making a front axle.

When I do remove the tubes from the center, I make the cut just on the housing side of the weld. Knock the piece of tube remaining out and your ready for the new tube. Its also a good idea to put a V notch on the front and back of the centersection where the tubes go in. This gives you a bit more weld area, and more support for the center portion of the housing

You pull the carrier and put the pucks in where where the carrier bearings go. Then use the cap to pull it tight. The setup we use has a puck for each cap, and then one on the end that will locate the housing end. This gives three points for the bar to slide through the pucks, hopefully causing them to be straight.


do you have any pics of a jig set up? i have seen a pic on the web that showed the carrier out, the inner puck, the bar running through it and the spindle, and then the cap. but for some reason, after reading your post, it seems as though i am missing something. how is the cap and puck going to pull tight? (maybe its too obvious and i am retarded) i would be doing this on a 14 bolt FF. i saw the pics in this thread and on others, but i guess i am just not all there today... am i ever:zzz:

Ok, here's a pic from Billavista's 14-bolt article. To try and help explain the pucks that go in the pig.

Click on this link (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306356) for a vendor that sells the pucks. He has pictures of the pucks that go in place of the carrier bearings. He sells them for a 14-bolt as well as other apps.

Check out post 4 (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=499087&postcount=4) of this thread to see the full float end pucks that Dean sells (or used to sell, he posted the pic in 2002). They are a little different than the semi-float ends in the other link.

perfect. thanks

dave

When converting a full float dana 60 to a semi-float, how much width is typically lost? This is assuming one leaves the housing as wide as possible, and only cuts it off behind the factory flange.

Ryan

I figured I would cut the tube at the length I want.
Set up the cut section of tube and "C" in a lathe and turn down the weld.
Split the remaining tube section (use a sawzall to cut?)
Press out tube section.
Heat up "C" and press it onto housing/tube and re-weld.

Confused yet?.............good, so am I. :D
Does this sound OK.

I cut the tubes to outside of welds and then set up the inner C'S on a mill and milled off the weld to the casting.Then used a sawsall to split the tube in the C and then pressed out the tube.

When converting a full float dana 60 to a semi-float, how much width is typically lost? This is assuming one leaves the housing as wide as possible, and only cuts it off behind the factory flange.

Ryan

Most of the aftermarket ends (with inner seal provision) are two inches long. So you can gain 4 inches total on housing width from your cut line. Axle flange width is usually around 2.5 inches past the housing end.

Thanks for the info.

Are there any specific big bearing ends that are preferable to others? Moser, MW, etc.

Ryan

Thanks for the info.

Are there any specific big bearing ends that are preferable to others? Moser, MW, etc.

Ryan

I have used Moser, Dutchman, MW, and some off ebay. All were about the same quality as far as fit/ finish goes. MW has some trick specialty stuff, but we usually dont need that.

If your making a mega wide axle, call around to make sure you can get an axle shaft in the length you need. I have never had a problem, but I know others have.

Ok I admit I only searched for 5 minutes so if its here somewhere I apoligize for my lazyness.

Any good ideas for getting the tube back in the diff housing when it breaks free from the welds and slides out 3/4 of an inch? Will I have to pull it all the way out and use the heat/cold method to reinstall or does some one have a trick to get it back in with out a press?

late 70's 3/4 ton dana 44 long side. Shortened to the waggy length one the outer end.

awesome thread!....just what i was searching for.im getting ready to narrow a dodge 5 on 5.5 patterned front 44 so it will bolt into a Cj and also a 74 model 3/4 ton chevy 8 lug 44 so it will bolt into a cj as well


then i will probably sell the dodge unit

anyone know if the caster already set on a chevy and dodge 44 is good for a SOA cj?

awesome thread!....just what i was searching for.im getting ready to narrow a dodge 5 on 5.5 patterned front 44 so it will bolt into a Cj and also a 74 model 3/4 ton chevy 8 lug 44 so it will bolt into a cj as well


then i will probably sell the dodge unit

anyone know if the caster already set on a chevy and dodge 44 is good for a SOA cj?

anyone?

If your narrowing it, set the caster where you want.

Too many variables for a simple yes or no answer

The question is, why wouldn't it be? If you're taking off the knuckles, you'll prolly rotate the pinion angle. You want to recover the original 6 or so degrees so the rig would track like normal.

I hate to admit it, but I have to do this with mine . . . .Do'h

Lots of good info. in this thread. Here is something I've been thinking about for a while. Has anyone taken a front HP 60 and retubed it for use in the rear? How much ground clearance would you gain? Would it be worth all the extra work?

the major benefit would be in your driveshaft angles, i don't think it would make a difference in the ground clearance (over a low pinion d60 rear). wouldn't there be oiling issues for the pinion bearings or is my newbness coming through again:confused:? i thought i read about Tera or one of the other axle manufacturers making their own center section for their rear hi pinion 60 axles because they needed a special passage for oiling the pinion bearings. for a trail rig this might not be that big of a deal but for a d/d could pose a big problem.

i found a pic of one from colorado custom crawlers:
http://www.coloradocustomcrawlers.com/d60rr5.jpg

Timing couldn't be more perfect. I have a bent tube on my 8.8.... so I'm going to retube my spare housing by flopping tubes to the opposite sides so my pinion is closer to being centered (instead of the pinion offcenter 3.875" it'll be offcenter 1" to the Pass. Side). I can get the tubes out, I can get the tubes in, I can get it all welded...but I'm not too sure I can get the tubes straight (which is the problem I have with my current axle....passenger side is bent 1.5*)

Any tricks for the pewr folks that just gotta get this done once and get it straight? I heard of a light bulb method once...but can't remember what it was...

If your narrowing it, set the caster where you want.

Too many variables for a simple yes or no answer

to narrow it to bolt into a CJ you only have to narrow one side........thats why I was wondering about the anlge so i would know if i NEED to cut both sides

I did not cut the other side on my late 70's chevy 3/4 ton axle. Only chopped the long side down 4".

I did grind on the spring pad by the housing to get a better pinion angle. I am SOA on 38.5's.

I did not cut the other side on my late 70's chevy 3/4 ton axle. Only chopped the long side down 4".

I did grind on the spring pad by the housing to get a better pinion angle. I am SOA on 38.5's.


thats what i was planning on doing.......... well on how to narrow the front anyways....im already SOA and was going to a 44/60 or a 44/14B combo......

how was your pinion angle before grinding the pad down and how was your caster?

hey im in r.i. just made a hi pinion 60 rear seni float and a right side hi 60 front no jigs used totally stright

Then use a BFH and knuck the knuckle off the tube. I tried like hell to get the bugger to rotate, but wouldn't even budge. Knocked it off the tube no problem. Cleaned it up and tossed it in the oven to 400 degrees. Went to work cleaning up the tube (grind / cut off remaining weld and fill any grooves with weld where you cut too deep and into the tube). When the tube is all cleaned up position the pinion where you want it, place the vehicle weight on the axle (and sitting level) using jack stands, bring out the knuckle from the oven, slide it on the tube (light tapping may be required), tap it into position (depth on the tube and desired caster) and once it cools its on there. Weld it up and you're done. Generally 4 to 8 degrees of caster is a good target.


Did you heat the C with torch before you knocked it off? I've done this on 44's (piece of cake) but not on a 60 yet, I've heard that the 60 C's have a much tighter interference fit and really don't want to come off or rotate.
On the oven trick, same question, was this for a 60 C or another front end? I'd have guessed that it would have taken more than 400 degrees to get it so that it would tap on if the interference fit was in the .005 to.008" that I've read that it is, I had planned on ice packing the tube overnight to help with this.
What you've layed out is basically what I had in mind, I'll be cutting my DRW HP60 longside down 6" leaving me with 72"WMS and 30.5" perch centers (I'm spreading my frame rails 3" to match this and help with fuel tank and exhaust fitment) and rotating both the C's to get a direct shot at the T-Case.

For the rear do exactly what you said. machine discs to fit the bearings and I use a 1.5" tube to run through. I made a d60 last winter using weld on ends from moser (semi-float), and this year did a 9". The 9" was easier. Just cut the tubes where they meet the housing, press it back in to the right length, put the alignment jig in and weld it.

Could a veriation on this method be used to make a front 9"?

Cut one side down to length from the outside, cut the welds at where the tube meets the housing and retube, weld the inner C's on and walla? Home brew front 9"?

Could a veriation on this method be used to make a front 9"?

Cut one side down to length from the outside, cut the welds at where the tube meets the housing and retube, weld the inner C's on and walla? Home brew front 9"?

Did you really have to word it exactly like you did to me? :flipoff2:

Oh and Rod, I just got your message. Just realized it was you who called me...call me again sometime tonight and we'll chat on this topic.

Did you really have to word it exactly like you did to me? :flipoff2:

Oh and Rod, I just got your message. Just realized it was you who called me...call me again sometime tonight and we'll chat on this topic.

Lol, I cut and pasted it from here.:flipoff2:

if you dont have a press to put te knuckle back on.

heat the kuckle red hot and hit the axle tube with a CO2 fire extinguisher.

the knuckle will pracically fall onto the tube.