Ive read a lot of posts on this unit and most people have had bad experience with it. Why? Does the ECM that Holly provides with it suck that bad? It seems to have all the same componets as the stock GM units have and their TBI systems work well. All most every post I found in the archives about holly projection there is someone with at least one problem or another. Does the majority of people installing these not have the intelligence to set one up correctly? Or does it not matter if you are smarter than smart because the kit was fawked from the factory?

I am asking because I am rebuiling my 350 and would like to put a TBI system on for a resonable price and Holly has one but most people think they suck. Whats up? Is it a bad design? Cheap parts? Or bad installations?

Originally posted by t wrecks
Ive read a lot of posts on this unit and most people have had bad experience with it. Why? Does the ECM that Holly provides with it suck that bad? It seems to have all the same componets as the stock GM units have and their TBI systems work well. All most every post I found in the archives about holly projection there is someone with at least one problem or another. Does the majority of people installing these not have the intelligence to set one up correctly? Or does it not matter if you are smarter than smart because the kit was fawked from the factory?

I am asking because I am rebuiling my 350 and would like to put a TBI system on for a resonable price and Holly has one but most people think they suck. Whats up? Is it a bad design? Cheap parts? Or bad installations?

First off, most ppl have had problems with the old analog setups. Second, too many people are EFI stupid and spread BS and people believe it. I really hate that. It's like everyone telling people to use a panhard on their suspension, regardless of what design it is. The analog projections had their problems, but what do you expect for $550? Again, it's because of mis information spread by people who think they know what they're talking about.

75% stupidness, 25% shitty product.

Squash
p.s. *flame suit engaged* :flipoff2:

I've been running it for 3 years on my 302 with zero problems. I had some issues getting it tuned at first, but that normal set up issues, and since then it's not given me one problem. I give it an A+!

Jeff

I got an analog set-up and while it's a bitch to tune, its never failed and has been very good to me other then the stupid stuff that I did....

Later and it beats a carb all day and every day....

I ran one and it was a bitch to tune. But worked verry well.
My only problem was a bad fuel pump that never worked right.

I'll tell you a little secret about the analog projection. Have one on my rig, absolutely zero problems. ADJUST THE TPS!!! An improperly adjusted TPS will cause the system to have all sorts of seemly wierd problems. I had to just screw the manual and play with it.. the TPS. It ALWAYS WORKS VERY WELL now. :)

I'll agree w/ everyone, and say that they are a bitch to tune but seem to run well after you get it right. The closed loop kit is a definite must have, as it allows the ecu to make corrections to the mixture automatically. Also fuel pressure is key, the correct inlet pressure and little to no return pressure.
Personally if I were in the market, I would pony up the extra dough and go with a system from Howell Engine Developement. Every part in the system is available at your local GM parts dealer for replacement, except for a custom chip in the computer that is burned especially for your setup. There are no adjustments for you to make, it is a "bolt it on and go". I know two guys that run it, one w/ a 350, and one w/ a jeep 258-6 and both ran excellent from the get go.

I got mine over christmas. I bought the single-barrel analog kit designed for a CJ-7, and modded the adapter plate to go on my cruiser motor. I LOVE IT!!! it wasn't real hard to tune, just took a couple of days. took it on the trail and bashed the crap out of it, no probs. "It runs up here like it does down there" my friend told me. I may add the closed loop kit later just to perfect it a little. IMO the howell setup is harder to install, more $$$$, but easier to manage once its in. Basically the howell is all stock GM stuff, and it thinks for itself. The holley setup is custom, and you have to think for it, and tell it what to do, otherwise it blows chunks.

laters-

What about Edelbrock Pro-Flow?
Anyone running this?

I had an older analog PJ with the Closed Loop system. I decided to trade it to a guy for a low mileage '89 Mustang 5.0 with SEFI.

Better part availability, and it is a more efficient system. That was the major reason to switch, not that I thought the PJ necessarily sucks.

i had an anolog system on a 302 for a couple years. i had no problems once i got it tuned. the key to tuning is the TPS. after you get that right everything else is easy. i sold it with the motor, and got the bigger 4bbrl digital system. same deal, you have to get the TPS right, or it will not tune properly.

It seems as though the holley unit may not be so bad after all. The unit they have out now is the Commander 950 that costs a bit more then the 4di. Holleys web site says that they no longer offer the 4di, only the 2di. If you want 4 injectors the only option is the more expensive Commander series. Howell does have a good reputation but they are $300 more then Holley and this project is running over budget already.

Thanks for the input everyone.

T-rex, don't get eh Commander 950, that is for drag racers with big blocks, big cams, and big heads. For your 350, i would suggest the 670 cfm 2 barrel, and prolly lower the feul pressure a little from what holley says. Unless of course, you have higher than 9:! compression, or have a hot ignition system.

If I remember correct, the 2 bbl unit is for engines making 270hp or less. I am not building anything near exotic but the motor should make about 300hp. I would worry that the engine would starve with the 2bbl version. I will call holley and ask them what they think before I buy. Thanks for the advice.

Originally posted by t wrecks
If I remember correct, the 2 bbl unit is for engines making 270hp or less. I am not building anything near exotic but the motor should make about 300hp. I would worry that the engine would starve with the 2bbl version. I will call holley and ask them what they think before I buy. Thanks for the advice.


I am using the 670 cfm unit on my 401 and had some install issues, but mostly works very well now. My 401 has approx. 11.5:1 compression and is supposedly putting out close to 400 hp. In no way is it being starved for fuel :eek: . I have had it climbing some pretty steep stuff and seriously deep in the throttle and have not had a sputter. Prolly jinxing myself now :confused: :confused: :confused:

Just a note.. If you are using an MSD box make sure you use a tach adapter to trigger your ECU. This was my biggest problem as it worked for a while and then just died. This issue confused the Holley guys, and they even sent me a new box to try. After 3 installs and removals I figured out my problem the night before a run. I haven't looked back since. Just make sure to use common sence when installing your system. Sometimes the directions are mis-leading. If anyone needs help let me know....
Ricky...seeya...

Originally posted by RickyR



Just a note.. If you are using an MSD box make sure you use a tach adapter to trigger your ECU.

Tach adapter? I have a MSD 6A and soon to install a PJ. What exactly is this adapter? Sounds like I'm going to need one.
Thanks.:)

Well I kinda consider myself an expert on these. I have run both the old analog and the new digital, and i will be running the newest digital with the improvements soon.

I sell these systems to my customers as well as set them up. I have installed and setup over 10 systems now. I will never run a carb if i can help it. The Holly is the shit for the $$.

As said above follow the directions, set the TPS sensor right, and recheck it a few times. The only known crap outs are a fuel injector from a guy in California (solved by a spare in the glove box) and a fuel pump by me. I think I worked it too hard as its a pusher pump not a sucker pump. So if its not at or below the bottum of the tank run a separate sucker pump to feed the pusher pump.

Another note is the newest Holly version has better injectors that run at a higher 21-23 PSI rather than the older 12-15 psi. It atomizes the fuel better and performs better.

Also CHECK and RECHECK your ground or you will have problems.
If you have questions on how to run one on a Scout 2 thats where 99% of my install experiance is from, but it should transfer over to other rigs.

It is the shit on inclines, and with the o2 senser its the ship in changing elevation and atsmopheric conditions.

As for the tach adapter, i was speaking with a tech the other day about my newest system and he said that only some electronic systems will need a tach adapter. I have run the Holly with MSD 6A with no problems on My Traveler so it should not be a prob Rick. You can get a tach signal from the coil. BTW stay away from the Blaster MSD coils on the Ih motors. I have boiled out two of the coild with the heat. At a min run them on the firewall straight up and down. I PREFER the MSD Blaster SS coil. Its an E-core with no oil style coil that puts out 10,000 more volts of power and its the same price.

Fleckster

Oh one other tid bit of Knowledge, The holly manual says use a digital volt meter. Get a good one $80 or so, but also dont use the rpm feature for tuning. Use a Vacume guage pluged into the power brake booster vacume line. It works the best for tuning these suckers.

Happy tweeking
...hahahahha
I meant tuning, you up all night up all day skitsoids:p

Fleckster

Originally posted by The Fleckster


As for the tach adapter, i was speaking with a tech the other day about my newest system and he said that only some electronic systems will need a tach adapter. I have run the Holly with MSD 6A with no problems on My Traveler so it should not be a prob Rick. You can get a tach signal from the coil.
Fleckster

I think there was a problem with my getting a signal from the coil. When I first installed the MSD box I got run-on when using the coil for a tachometer signal driver. That is why I got the adapter. Then once the adapter was installed the engine shut off correctly. Then later when I got the Pro-Jection I tried the coil and the tach lead from the MSD box. When I did this the engine would run for a while (sometimes 30 minutes and sometimes 2 minutes no rythem). This was a mysterious issue. I remembered this would happen with my tachometer sometimes and that is what gave me the clue.There was an extra wire from the adapter ( sorry I forgot the color) that is the wire I used to drive the ECU.
I guess this isn't the cure for everyone, but this is the ONLY :mad3: way it worked for me. I now carry an extra ECU and tach adapter in a Pelican box (waterproof) attached to my tire carrier/toolbox.
Electronics can't live with them and can't live without them...

Ricky...seeya...

Originally posted by The Fleckster

I will never run a carb if i can help it.
Fleckster

thats what cain thought too ! :flipoff2:

i had to use the tach adapter to run my 4di with my msd 6-offroad too. it all works gret now.

I'm running the same system for the last 3 years and it seem's that I'm still tuning it. My question is headers? I have headers on my 304 and I'm wondering if stock maifolds would be better with this system for tunning confused:

IMO it sucks because.

1. A lot of people are running an open loop system.

2. Holley gives the customer a hand full of adjustment dials to try to program the system to any number of different engines. Whereas a GM system has piles of tables to customize the Volumetric Efficiency, Base Pulse Width, Power Enrichment, ect.

3. No spark control. I feel that the majority of the power gained and the smooth idle and acceleration you get from a fuel injection system, is obtained from the spark control portion.

I think its cheaper and better to rob a GM vehicle of it's TBI and convert the system to your needs.

Just my $.02

I run the holly 2D on older 350 and have no complaints.A real noticable difference in power and responce compared to the previous truck avenger I had.

That being said,,,,,,I also ran the 6A MSD before getting it.My msd fried a coil and almost left me stranded once.It fucked with my radio and I had to get the capacitor,the fawker still made noise.I got the 2D system and it would only idle and then drop out after 2 grand,I fucked with the tuning for hours, called holly and went through how I had it plumbed and the whole nine yards. He had me switch to BB mode and crank up the pressure to 20lbs(talked to a guy named woody)...three or four phone calls later he suggested removing the MSD,so I did.It ran perfectly the first time.This was a good thing because I was burned out on tuning.Haven't touched it since.He said there is an adapter for the MSD if I want to run it.My MSD still sits in a box and can fucking rot in hell.I like a dependable engine and it seemed that the MSD would make it undependable,and I never noticed any performance improvements by the MSD anyway.

Edit:
my tips,
Keep the control unit in the cab (dry and cool) but keep it so you can tweek the knobs with out tearing up your hands.I have mine were the old yj ecu was and had enough slack to put it on the floor board during tuning.I can reach it still but its a bitch under the dash like that.

Run the 02 sensor (closed loop system everyone mentions)

Wire in a "rich/lean guage" for tuning and monitoring.

Keep the fuel pump lower than the tank.

Enjoy a problem free fuel system no matter what angle your sitting.

I hate mine! Every time I mic up my CB it kills the engine. I have no throttle response and it is very unpredictable. I'm going EFI.

Question since there seems to be some PJ experts here. A non mechanically inclined friend of mine bought a "Jeep" with a 401 and an old analog PJ setup. It never runs right, he has no manual or anything. I haven't messed with it all yet but what is the TPS supposed to be set at? Sounds like a good starting point. Thanks in advance.

Eric

Call Holley and get a manual.

Question since there seems to be some PJ experts here. A non mechanically inclined friend of mine bought a "Jeep" with a 401 and an old analog PJ setup. It never runs right, he has no manual or anything. I haven't messed with it all yet but what is the TPS supposed to be set at? Sounds like a good starting point. Thanks in advance.

Eric

between .63 and .65 volts

Edit:
That is for the digital units sorry,don't know if it would be the same.

I have ran the old 670 Anol. and the new commander 950 (750cfm) and loved it you just have to know how to use a computer and tune carb.

I think there was a problem with my getting a signal from the coil. When I first installed the MSD box I got run-on when using the coil for a tachometer signal driver.

Read the MSD manual! The MSD box puts 400v to the coil. It clearly states in the manual not to use the coil for a signal source. Use the tach connection on the MSD box. iirc Autometer tachs are the only ones that do not require a tach adapter.

Had the same problem on a friend's 383. MSD 6AL & Analog Projection. Wired the tach signal to the output on the MSD box. Burnt out the ecu after a year of operation. Would have been nice if Holley had included a MSD box wiring schematic in the instructions. :mad3: The tach adapter is required.

link (http://www.fuelairspark.com/ezefi/default.asp?utm_source=EZ_HomePage_Banner_Ad&utm_medium=Banner_Ad&utm_term=Link&utm_content=EZ_HomePage_Banner_Ad&utm_campaign=EZ_HomePage_Banner_Ad)


use this works way better

link (http://www.fuelairspark.com/ezefi/default.asp?utm_source=EZ_HomePage_Banner_Ad&utm_medium=Banner_Ad&utm_term=Link&utm_content=EZ_HomePage_Banner_Ad&utm_campaign=EZ_HomePage_Banner_Ad)


use this works way better

:laughing: for the cost of that kit you could do a complete LS swap

:laughing: for the cost of that kit you could do a complete LS swap

Yep could have other than all new motor mounts, exhaust, headers, and all the other small items.

I had the motor built then found the projection I had did not work out the best,

the Kits are not that much if you look other places