Trail Patrol At The Kiosk July 15 - Report

[atvobsession]

On Saturday, July 15, Scott and I went to the Kiosk at Loon Lake armed with our materials from CA4WDC and FOTR. The crown jewel of our goodies was by far the reusable trash bags, donated by CA4WDC to Dell at FOTR. The bags would turn out to be VERY popular and a great ice breaker to begin our brief educational "speech".

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7152006/kiosk2006.jpg

Scott arrived before me, and set up shop on a pretty hot day. It turned out to be a very popular day, as there were many rigs parked down at the dam, and several parked at the chalet, but more on that later.

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7152006/kenandscott2006.jpg

When I arrived, Scott had already done a lot of business handing out trash bags and brochures. The most popular to give out were the FOTR and RTP flyers, the county Rubicon Trail brochure and the USFS map. Of the 100 or so vehicles that we stopped and talked to, only around 7 people said they already had a map. Remember, this is the map the USFS is giving tickets based on, yet no campaign to get that information to users. The Trail Patrol will clearly acquire as many maps as possible and make it an integral part of our duty for the sake of the users.

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7152006/trashbag2006.jpg

As I said, the star of the show was the trash bags donated by CA4WDC. Of the 150 trashbags that we had on hand to pass out, 89 people took a bag with a smile on their face. It was very encouraging to meet quite a few young guys in their 20's, say "hell yeah" when we offered them a bag. Scott and I felt like proud parents as late in the day the same people who took bags, now left with the trash bag hanging from the back of their rig.

We also met some really nice people while out there all day. Several people on foot, and some wheelers came over to talk. A guy named Patrick, offered suggestions for radios for the Trail Patrol. In addition, one of the new Patrol recruits, Aaron showed up to meet Scott and I.

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7152006/list2006.jpg

Scott's homemade sign with the "rules" of the road clearly displayed made a BIG impression with the users as they drove past the kiosk. Many were slowing down or stopping before we flagged them, just to read the sign. Even the people in the Honda Civic. :)


http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7152006/materials2006.jpg

CA4WDC also donated some display racks. So with dying battery, Scott and I attached the cases to the kiosk and filled them with the most popular items. Lots of maps!

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7152006/cord2006.jpg

To ensure no FOTR, USFS or RTP materials ended up on the trail, Scott and I attached a bungie cord across the materials, to prevent any wind from blowing them around.

Around 5:30 PM we started packing up, and placed all the excess materials on the shelf inside the Kiosk. I can't tell you how impressed I was with the new deck, and the Kiosk in general. It really is one of the really great things that FOTR has put out there to help with our mission. It really does help a lot, especially with materials logistic, considering we have people from all over the area helping out.

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7152006/loondam2006.jpg

A new addition that was a welcome sight, was the new Combined Use signs. It is now legal to park at the Chalet, in the dirt area around the helipad. So Green sticker vehicles, including motorcycles and ATV's can use the paved section to reach the trailhead. This is a LONG TIME OVERDUE. It's imperative that this does not get abused!

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7152006/chaletsign2006.jpg

When you arrive at the Chalet area, you are greeted by the first sign which lets you know it is now a combined use Road.

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7152006/share2006.jpg

Then a second sign, reinforces the fact that we have to share! This is a great sign, and really drives the point home.

Overall, the weekend was a huge success. We gave 89 wheelers a new reusable trashbag and handed out nearly as many maps and brochures. We got the "25 feet on either side of the centerline" message out there, and overall enlightened many 4 Wheelers. We now have a very organized structure and mission for the Trail Patrol. Now we need to get our new members up to speed and the past members on the calendar and on the trail.

Remember, if you're interested in Trail Patrol, to visit us at http://rubicontrailpatrol.org and sign up.

[welndmn]

Those OHV combined signs are also by the wentworth enterence as well.

[Rubicrawler]

WOW! Nice work guys!

[randii]

Those OHV combined signs are also by the wentworth enterence as well.
Those signs were a bit of work to make happen, but really show the fruits of FOTR's labor, cooperating with the Forest, County, and CHP. We discussed the issues with each individually, then all of them together in the ROC meeting, and then wrote a letter to the County DOT formally requesting that these areas be dual-designated, with supporting maps and GPS coordinates. A number of people worked to make this happen, and I can't recall who all helped, but I do recall the efforts of Dennis Cullen, the Eldorado National Forest LEO leader; Rich Platt, the Eldorado National Forest Pacific District Resource Officer; and Tom Celio, the El Dorado County Deputy Department of Transportation Supervisor. These fellas stepped up well beyond what they technically were obliged to do, and helped speed the process... :grinpimp:

This is great... and worth of celebration, but be aware that with these new signs, there is enhanced enfrocement of the new limits. Heed the signs -- if you have an OHV legal rig without a street legal tag, you may be ticketed outside the mixed-use areas.

Randii

[UGET IT]

What a good trip report! Glad you liked the deck. Hopefully soon we will be finishing the railing. H8 Mondays pops passed away earier this week so he is outta pocket for a while...........

I'll be up this weekend to finish the deck screws and bring the EX-IP

Great job guys!

[The Jerk]

that is a sweet silver dodge in teh background, hehehe. very cool stuff. i like those trash bags. i so need to get somethign like that . im sick of teh melting plastic have to quadruple up bags i have. hahahah

[Rollie]

Great work. That is a positive report. Thanks for your efforts :blender:

[93chico4by]

Thanks for the bag:cool2:

And for manning the post.

Edit: to add to the 25' off the trail thing. We were at little sluice watching rigs fail pretty bad. and the Sheriffs showed up, then told us that the red markers up the hill that appear to be the boundary of where you can go is wrong and that they could ticket us for being off the trail. But about an hour later, two forest service guys showed up and we chatted with them for about an hour about random stuff, they had no problem with where we were parked and were suprised at the Sheriff's words.

Ultimately the F.S. guys said "we should talk to the sheriffs so we can be consistent in our enforcement." Just an FYI...did anyone else have any issues with this?

[CreepyCrawler]

Thanks for the Bag too that was sweet my lil bag is now a back up bag lol .. i was 1 of the 7 that stopped and had a trail map and rules prior to seeing you guys . was a pretty cool surprise seeing you guys there and shooting the breeze before heading home .. keep up the good work guys ..

[The Jerk]

Thanks for the bag:cool2:

And for manning the post.

Edit: to add to the 25' off the trail thing. We were at little sluice watching rigs fail pretty bad. and the Sheriffs showed up, then told us that the red markers up the hill that appear to be the boundary of where you can go is wrong and that they could ticket us for being off the trail. But about an hour later, two forest service guys showed up and we chatted with them for about an hour about random stuff, they had no problem with where we were parked and were suprised at the Sheriff's words.

Ultimately the F.S. guys said "we should talk to the sheriffs so we can be consistent in our enforcement." Just an FYI...did anyone else have any issues with this?


YESSSSSSSSSSSS

this need to be cleared up badly. i have been todl conflicting reports from both sides as well. i have even camped up there because i was told that area was goign to be treated differently because its all ROCK.

1 i was told we can camp and park there up to teh red markers.

2 i was told we can camp there but not park up at camp and have to park closer to sluice.


WTF its all rock right there.....

[CreepyCrawler]

they did same thing to us down near Buck .. leaving buck you cross the creek and you drive next to the slab mafter coming out of the creek . well a buddy went up the slab and around a few rigs parked on top of it never going off the slab and a ranger came chasing him down and caught up to me to tell my buddy he was lucky he didnt catch him he was gonna ticket him ... he said it didnt matter it was all rock slab he was more then 25 ft from the trail ..he warned me to warn my buddy .. i understand the importantance of being strict so all follow the rules but some spots there is no way damage can be caused like around sluice box on the slabs or where my buddy went up the slab and around a cpl rigs parked.. im currious they gonna be up there in full force when the Jamboree comes thru or will they get a free ride thru no patrol since they paying to go up there.. we parked our rigs at the first camp as you come into Buck island we all parked right on the edge of the trail well withing 25 ft of the trail july 14-16 was 2 white wranglers a gold CJ a Yellow Landcruiser a white Cherokee and a straight axle 94 toy pu and a brownish Wrangler ... that was the best camp spot got to see everyone that made it to buck come into camp :)

[welndmn]

I saw Del Stopped on the trail and I pulled out my Tape.
I did it to a few people over the weekend, I mainly did it to get a giggle out of myself.

I am staying 25 feet from the trail, that is the cloest part of my truck (tailgate down) is 24' 11" from the center of the trail. And walk to camp.

[randii]

This is not rocket science, guys -- stay on the trail, or if an area is clear of vegetation, you can pull off a reasonable distance on either side (the number we have been using for now is 25', but that is subject to change). It may not make sense, but that's what they *can* enforce, for now. If you want to take a chance that you'll find the 'friendly cop' then *YOU* take that chance.

The red carsonites uphill of Little Sluice indicate the Spider Lake closure area -- this has since been trumped by the Forest Order that limits travel to system roads and trails. No cross-country travel has been allowed for wheeled vehicles for years, but since August of 2005, we are being limited even further to the maps on the Motorized Vehicle Restrictions map, which you should have a copy of, but is also available online, with more information and explanations here: http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route/fo/index.shtml

We lobbied again at the Rubicon Oversight Committee for better communications between enforcement organizations, and more consistent enforcement. There is much room for improvement in consistency, IN THE MEANTIME, FOTR RECOMMENDS PARKING ALONGSIDE THE ROAD, which in most cases is plenty wide to allow vehicles to pass a pulled-aside rig. CAMP WHEREVER, BUT PARK NEXT TO THE TRAIL.

Randii

[randii]

Don't think that any of the organized events will get a free pass -- frankly, no free passes are available...

The Eldorado National Forest (ENF) was sued for failing to implement its plan for motorized recreation, and the legal settlement mandated by the judge allows access ONLY to system roads and trails until ROute Designation is complete. Sucky as that may be, the other likely alternative was to shut the forest down to motorized access. If ENF fails to enforce the settlement, federal court could close the forest to motorized access until ROute Designation is complete, and fine the forest.

As to the 'it is just granite' line of defense, the federal circuit court judge does not care where it is on granite, over the top of a bunny, or hanging out of a tree -- his instructions limit travel to system roads and trails, regardless of who you are or what you drive.

Randii

[93chico4by]

This doesn't really fit in the topic of the thread, but the F.S. guys we talked to also said we were fine to park at the red markers and hike our camping stuff right down to Spider lake, if we wanted to camp there, (we didn't, nor did anyone else that we saw) this seemed really odd to me. What is the real deal with that?

[d2photo]

Ken/Kevin,

Was nice to meet you both - will try to find some time to staff the kiosk again after the jamboree.

Met some great folks during my time there..

JUst a note on the tickets.. saw 2 folks get tickets for camping behind a carbonite post that had been removed 2 hours earlier "by someone else"

FS was the ticketing party and he was also going to nail them for the bong they were using. I was there when he called the sherrifs dept for the drug charge.

He stated sherrifs had told them a zero tolerance for any drug infractions..
Tag for the carbonite was 150+25 processing per vehicle.. let them go as he called off the sherrifs as they were cooperative and actually listened to the FS ranger..

[peterfj40]

This doesn't really fit in the topic of the thread, but the F.S. guys we talked to also said we were fine to park at the red markers and hike our camping stuff right down to Spider lake, if we wanted to camp there, (we didn't, nor did anyone else that we saw) this seemed really odd to me. What is the real deal with that?


i was told the same when i went up at the july 2 weekend (for the 4th of july crowd but no one was there).. anyways they said that we could park at the red markers and carry our stuff down.. NO DRIVING DOWN to unload, and i hope whoever does drive down to unload gets their lazy ass a ticket :flipoff2:

[randii]

...the F.S. guys we talked to also said we were fine to park at the red markers and hike our camping stuff right down to Spider lake... What is the real deal with that?

As noted above, the red carsonites uphill of Little Sluice indicate the Spider Lake closure area -- this has since been trumped by the Forest Order that limits travel to system roads and trails, and those carsonites are an old boundary. If 'Officer X' wants to interpret a wider zone up to those markers, that's his discretion, and if you want to park there, you do so at your own peril... maybe not from 'Officer X,' but from any other enforcement agent that chooses to enforce less liberally. With four separate patrol entities (county CSO, county sheriffs, USFS FPOs, and USFS LEOs) enforcement standards will vary.

Per the August, 2005 Forest Order, motorizied use is limited to the system routes shown on the Motorized Vehicle Restrictions map (available online, with more information and explanations at http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route/fo/index.shtml ). By my reckoning, parking just below the red carsonites is parking well beyond the mapped route.

Realistically, mine is just an opinion... the judge that you'll appear in front of, if ticketed, has a more final say. The officers get to have their own opinion -- and ticket accordingly -- but be aware that there are four different enforcment groups enforcing without cohesive standards. I'm advising a conservative enforcement approach, but you can always choose differently. If you want to take a chance that you'll find the 'friendly cop' then *YOU* take that chance.
That is the real deal... and will be until the various patrols get together to form written enforcement guidelines. FOTR is working to encourage this.

Randii

[resqme]

All of which make Spider Lake an unrealistic place to camp. By law, you can't park your vehicle more than 25' from the center of the trail (as randi pointed out, 25' has little to do with where the markers are...they were set for the original Spider Lake closure). So this means one has to park the rig at the sluice and walk several hundred yards over the granite to the lake, leaving the rig over the hill out of view and right by the trail overnight:confused: just waiting for the next thief who comes along:mad3: .

Security wise, an untenable situation. I'm not raising a bitch here, just pointing out that it will probably never be reasonable to camp at spider when you are driving a trail rig of any value.

As far as camping at the lake, it is in the forest, not on private land, so you are allowed to camp anywhere you want (except the southeast corner where it is private), as long as you observe the "100' from a watercourse" law.

It has been my observation that different agencies with different focus are choosing to enforce different laws. The USFS guys are enforcing the 25' law and the 100' from the water law and the vegetation destruction law, while the EDSO are more into enforcing the 25' law, the alcohol in the vehicle and drunk driving laws.

my .02

[randii]

FWIW, I do think the Spider Lake situation will get better... but we've gotta get through Route Designation first and work with the FS to define a spur in that area. No, I doubt we'll be right next to the lake like the good old days, but it should be much better than running the County claim right at the trail. This underlines why we need to keep working with USFS -- if we ever want to park outside the County's trail claim, we need them to be flexible with developing parking areas and designating spur trails.

Randii