I am doing the brake lines for my new axle setup. They are all discs, but no e-brake. Basically because my ebrake from stock is crap so I would have to buy a brake pedal assembly and the cables, and the calipers, and did I mention I am not the best at this?

So my question is, if I get a good line lock, would that work for an e-brake? If my knowledge is correct, and flame me if it isn't, I push the brake down to apply pressure. Then flip the lever for the line lock, and it holds the pressure on the brakes? Correct?

Has anyone done this successfully? What did you use? And if this is totally stupid idea. What do yall do for e-brakes when you can use factory?

And for reference:
80 CJ7, 3/4ton D44 front, 14-bolt rear, all with 3/4 ton chevy calipers.

Search "Jeep linelock" on google, and lots of pirate threads will come up on it.

Short answer is yes, it will work as an Ebrak.

I wonder what sort of long term effect that would have on your brake lines and calipers? They'd be at high pressure for long periods of time. Might not be an issue, but otherwise I don't see why that setup wouldn't work. Obviously it wouldn't work as a backup brake in the event of hydraulic failure on a brake line, which won't make it much of an "emergency" brake, but that's not really too much of an issue I guess.

They will work fine for momentary use--say to hold a hill while you transfer power to the wheels--but they are not intended to be used for more than a minute or so. I have a line lock on my rear brakes and it works well but I would not rely on it for an ebrake to hold it while it was parked on a mountainside. I can't say for sure how long it would take, but I would expect the pressure to bleed down over time. My unit is made by B&M and there was an e-brake disclamer in the directions.
I am in the process of figuring out a way to incorporate a mechanical e-brake for peace of mind.

I run a swagelok manual valve for line lock, works great and doesn't bleed over time.

Emergency brake no, parking brake yes.

I used a similiar yet more fool proof method of running lines to (2) 1/4 turn hydraulic ball valves from Swage Lock or Swagelok. If you have it in 4 wheel drive and engage both valves, one could fail and the other would still be stopping all 4 wheels.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/401ton/8f1479a9.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/401ton/cf734035.jpg


The swagelocks are the 2 matched arrow like units in the flow position.

I used 3/16" brake lines and 2 common adaptors from NAPA so these are the valves I used:

B-42F2
Ball Vavle 1/8"FPT
Rated @ 1,000 psi

(maybe not enough for Hydro Boost, But with my YJ booster and big master I only have 800 psi of pressure at the calipers)

Price $25.80 ea. plus shipping.

I used Kansas City Valve and Fitting 800-332-6693 or 913-432-4884

I have left them on in the garage for weeks with no bleed off.

Biggest problem was running lines under floor. Just a little time consuming.

Yeah I guess I should clarify. I need a parking brake. While I know that having an e-brake is in case of failure, I plan on having my system doubled up. I know that's no excuse. But I am confident I can handle it. I have lost brakes before, and handled the situation.

But when I leave the jeep sitting in the parking lot or somewhere I need something to hold it other than backpressuring the engine against the tranny. But in case I am on a slope, I need something strong.

i also use a swagelock and have proof that it will hold a jeep on a hill for atleast two weeks if enough pressure is applied before engaging the valve. the only thing i would warn against is pressure build-up. although, it has never happened to me i have been warned that jamming on the pedal and applying the valve and then letting it sit in the heat for a while could cause enough pressure to blow a line. like i said i haven't had a problem yet.

It will bleed off, you should only use a line lock while your at the vehicle (IE on a hill when you need to get out). The master will eventually bleed down and you'll be missing a vehicle when you go back to it

how exactly could the master bleed off have any affect on the calipers if there is a valve completely cutting off the flow between the 2?
Hydraulic ball valves are bubble tite.
my company makes ball valves.

I have an electric one on the rear and it will hold on a very steep hill with a lot of pressure for about 20 minutes, then it will start to bleed off a little bit. It doesn't take off and start rolling, but it starts creeping ever so slowly. It will hold pressure when the jeep is on the trailer for a couple days.

http://www.awdirect.com/awdirect/finditem.cfm?itemid=8737 &http://www.awdirect.com/awdirect/finditem.cfm?itemid=8736

how exactly could the master bleed off have any affect on the calipers if there is a valve completely cutting off the flow between the 2?
.:beer: Bingo!!

I was thinking of the line locks that literally holds the master cylinder down. That there is holding the pressure to the front brakes (or rear if you choose). So tell me, has anyone ever heard of a caliper going bad? Ever hear of a wheel cylinder going bad? We're talking hydraulics, they only have to developed a small leak and with all that pressure on them they'll bleed out fast.

Yeah that's what I was thinking about the ball valves. I would think the pressure would hold. As long as I have quality lines that don't expand and such, I would imagine that it would hold. And for just a parking brake and temp trail brake, I thought that would work.

Rockhales, thanks for the links, those are pretty cool. $$$$ but very cool.

B-42F2
Ball Vavle 1/8"FPT
Rated @ 1,000 psi



It's actually rated for 2500 psi

http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/EN/MS-01-60.pdf

Swagelok makes good quality products and we use many of their valves in our labs, they don't bleed off.

The ball valve won't. It's the brake system that will. These things are awesome for the trail, but dangerous for a parking brake on a hill over night. Call them and ask their opinions, they'll tell you the same thing.

It's actually rated for 2500 psi

http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/EN/MS-01-60.pdf

Swagelok makes good quality products and we use many of their valves in our labs, they don't bleed off.


I had some conflicting info from the website and the paperwork that came with the valves so I just listed the lesser rating I read which is still above most any power braking systems.

The ball valve won't. It's the brake system that will. These things are awesome for the trail, but dangerous for a parking brake on a hill over night. Call them and ask their opinions, they'll tell you the same thing.


My calipers will hold pressure what appears to be indefinately. If your lines or calipers leak, you need new ones or a different brand.

The ball valve won't. It's the brake system that will. These things are awesome for the trail, but dangerous for a parking brake on a hill over night. Call them and ask their opinions, they'll tell you the same thing.

I agree I would never rely on the hydraulic system as a long term parking brake on the street. IMO, thats what gears and curbs are for.

But for the trail I really like the idea.

Another idea is a driveshaft brake like highangle does, but they are pricy. Im looking at one for my wifes jeep, but its a little ways down the road.

I agree I would never rely on the hydraulic system as a long term parking brake on the street. IMO, thats what gears and curbs are for.

But for the trail I really like the idea.

Another idea is a driveshaft brake like highangle does, but they are pricy. Im looking at one for my wifes jeep, but its a little ways down the road.



You guys may be right in theory about having hydraulics holding a vehicle for a long peroid on time on the street ect., but most of us here are talking about a wheeler where you need it for a few minutes to an hour at a time.
Again, I used (2) valves just incase anything failed in one system so I would still have 4 wheels holding it in 4 wheel drive.

My calipers will hold pressure what appears to be indefinately. If your lines or calipers leak, you need new ones or a different brand.

And they're going to keep holding pressure until they don't. All calipers fail, all master cylinders fail, all wheel cylinders fail. If you guys want to trust a little o-ring or a little cup in your brake system to keep your rig on a hill over night that's your choice. It's even possible you inspect your brake system weekly for any possible leaks. Maybe you do have calipers that will never fail that where made by God himself. But do you feel comfortable giving this kind of advice to other people?

I've heard too many horror stories. I know of 2 scenarios, one guys Jeep hit another car after he lost his brakes, another guys truck hit a house. The people who make line locks specifically tell you their system is not a parking brake. You're using a system for something it wasn't designed for. You're more then welcome to do so, but you shouldn't be giving that advice to others. As to why those 2 guys used a line lock for a parking brake? They where told it would work by someone else who has done it.

You guys may be right in theory about having hydraulics holding a vehicle for a long peroid on time on the street ect., but most of us here are talking about a wheeler where you need it for a few minutes to an hour at a time.


I highly reccomend this system for Off-roading. It's awesome for scenarios where you need your vehicle not moving on a hill, trail etc and nothing beats a line lock.

I use MICO 4 wheel line locks for winching. This wayyou can lock all 4 wheels, winch from outside the vehicle withthe motor running. Works great.

Pay attention to Vanco...he's the expert. I have had mine "bleed off" over time. I suspect it is the brake system and lines cooling, causing contraction, that does this, but it does begin to creep and will eventually let go.

You guys may be right in theory about having hydraulics holding a vehicle for a long peroid on time on the street ect., but most of us here are talking about a wheeler where you need it for a few minutes to an hour at a time.
Again, I used (2) valves just incase anything failed in one system so I would still have 4 wheels holding it in 4 wheel drive.

I agree with you, and thats what I meant in my post. Also the reason Im looking to swagelok both our jeeps.

Just wouldnt trust it for the street. Christ I dont even trust mechanical ebrakes on the street.

Not after I sent a 5 ton rolling out of a parking lot, onto a street, and wrote off a parked car....lol

I had some conflicting info from the website and the paperwork that came with the valves so I just listed the lesser rating I read which is still above most any power braking systems.

The valve is rated for 2500 psi but they say that each one is factory tested and calibrated at 1000 psi.

Why would anyone put their rig in neutral overnight and rely only on the line lock for parking on a hill, use common sense and redundancy. I use my line lock to hold my jeep in place if I need to get out for a minute or two and don't want to shut it off, if stopped on a steep hill, I will shut it off, put it in gear and use my line lock. Every system can fail even mechanical and trust me the line lock I have is much more effective and safer than any other mechanical e-brake I have had for what I use it.

And that's my concern. I haven't had an e-brake at all in a long time. So I am used to the ole, leave compression against the engine and tranny. But we all know that can only hold on a flat spot. And I even pay attention to where I am and how I want my jeep to roll if it does take off. I.E put it against a curb or aim it at a wall. Hell I even kept a brick in the jeep for a while. Ghetto I know, but it was only for a week, until I tore the jeep apart for a rebuild.

I have seen the transfer case e-brakes. But not only are they expensive. I haven't seen one yet for a D300. I am not against that honestly.

I am just looking for ideas on a parking/emergency brake. Something I can use on the trail and street, that I can rely on to hold. The only reason I haven't gone mechanical is because my pedal assembly is shot. SO that and new calipers with the e-brake integrated would be more $$$ than I can do.

So line locks are only good for the trail is what I am seeing?

Gotta have a mechanical e-brake to be street legal. There's a reason for that. Redundancy is good. It's always nice to have a backup if the hydraulic system looses pressure (a realative common occurrance, actually.)
I'd want it for the trail, too... personally. I've got dual line locks on my CJ, but I went to the trouble (and expense) to put in a proper mechanical e-brake as well.

I have seen the transfer case e-brakes. But not only are they expensive. I haven't seen one yet for a D300.


JB Conversions
http://www.jbconversions.com/images/products/dana300/rearout/RO-1008.jpg

I was thinking of the line locks that literally holds the master cylinder down. That there is holding the pressure to the front brakes (or rear if you choose). So tell me, has anyone ever heard of a caliper going bad? Ever hear of a wheel cylinder going bad? We're talking hydraulics, they only have to developed a small leak and with all that pressure on them they'll bleed out fast.
If that is the case, I guess the world should park the cars for good....assuming that all of a sudden, your brakes are going to quit working in a moments notice.

I have a mico lock..... I have left mine on overnight before, forgot they were on, and proceeded to tear the caliper mounts off my rear axle....:shaking:

i am putting a mico lock in my jeep a little expensive but works great and does not draw any electricty when in use they have a great web site very informative

another option is manual lock hydralic valve much cheaper same type of performance

If that is the case, I guess the world should park the cars for good....assuming that all of a sudden, your brakes are going to quit working in a moments notice.

I have a mico lock..... I have left mine on overnight before, forgot they were on, and proceeded to tear the caliper mounts off my rear axle....:shaking:
Big difference between total and complete failure and slowly bleeding down.
Line locks are great for momentary holding, but I'd never rely on one for a parking brake, and I personaly don't want to be anywhere (street or trail) w/o a machanical backup to my braking system. It's just too critical a system to not have redundancy.

If that is the case, I guess the world should park the cars for good....assuming that all of a sudden, your brakes are going to quit working in a moments notice.

I have a mico lock..... I have left mine on overnight before, forgot they were on, and proceeded to tear the caliper mounts off my rear axle....:shaking:
and continuing with vanco's theme, we all might as well never use an elevator, airplane, bridge, underwater tunnel,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

i guess we might as well all go kill ourselves now, cause the world might blow up in 20 minutes,,,at a moments notice, sheesh

just like all the computers were gonna crap out at midnite 2000, right?

an expert says components eventually fail, wow, what a concept.:laughing:

Good examples... Do a little research and learn about what sort of safety devices had to be invented to make elevators feasible.
Airplanes? How about triple redundancy for the controls, not merely the simple redundancy of hydro/mechanical brakes.
Bridges? Talk to an engineer about that one...
And underwater tunnels? Any guess how many safety features have to be incorporated into those things to get them built?

The smart approach to mechanical systems is to assume that failure will happen, and implement backup systems to deal w/ it.

Rocky, you were way too kind...

Good examples... Do a little research and learn about what sort of safety devices had to be invented to make elevators feasible.
Airplanes? How about triple redundancy for the controls, not merely the simple redundancy of hydro/mechanical brakes.
Bridges? Talk to an engineer about that one...
And underwater tunnels? Any guess how many safety features have to be incorporated into those things to get them built?

The smart approach to mechanical systems is to assume that failure will happen, and implement backup systems to deal w/ it.


If everybody wanted to be as safe (triple redundancy) as your talking, none of us would be putting on bigger tires, designing our own suspensions, welding our own links, driving up hills and mountains, climbing rocks and ledges or wheelin to begin with!

My simple (2) valve system has a safety built in anyway. What's the probabilty of both my valves, lines or calipers going bad on the same day parked on side of the road while the vehicle is in gear and rolling down the hill. NOT!

I'm not against the manual parking brake, just trying to help a fellow wheeler save some money and provide a solution for his rig where as he didn't have anything before. Isn't that what Pirate is all about?

Rocky, you were way too kind...
Yeah... I know.

I could probably get away wothout carrying a lot of trail spares, too.... until the part I didn't happen to have on hand happened to break... then I KNOW what anybody wheeling w/ me would say!

Not only are line locks a poor excuse for a parking brake, but they offer ZERO backup in case of a hydraulic failure.

Some fool loses brakes and plows into my rig 'cause he has no e-brake... my disappointment w/ the situation is gonna be expressed in a hell of a lot more than mere words.




.

Yeah... I know.

I could probably get away wothout carrying a lot of trail spares, too.... until the part I didn't happen to have on hand happened to break... then I KNOW what anybody wheeling w/ me would say!

Not only are line locks a poor excuse for a parking brake, but they offer ZERO backup in case of a hydraulic failure.

Some fool loses brakes and plows into my rig 'cause he has no e-brake... my disappointment w/ the situation is gonna be expressed in a hell of a lot more than mere words.




.Whatever internet tough guy :shaking:

In 4-lo, my rig wouldn't roll down the side of a barn, let alone with my lock on. I park my rig on my trailer sometimes for weeks with the line lock on, and guess what....it is still locked up. So I surely dont give a rats ass what your opinion is.....:barf:

Good examples... Do a little research and learn about what sort of safety devices had to be invented to make elevators feasible.
Airplanes? How about triple redundancy for the controls, not merely the simple redundancy of hydro/mechanical brakes.
Bridges? Talk to an engineer about that one...
And underwater tunnels? Any guess how many safety features have to be incorporated into those things to get them built?

The smart approach to mechanical systems is to assume that failure will happen, and implement backup systems to deal w/ it.Oh shit, all this time I have been driving 70mph with one tie rod, master cylinder, and one steering shaft rag joint (not really). My sector shaft broke midway up in the box driving down a logging road once. Fawk, I knew it was going to fail one day. Why didn't I run dual boxes dangit!!!!!

I hope the cable lug on someones parking brake cable busts off one day and that rig rolls into yours.

Anybody with brains and some skill (and a little consideration) can install a mechanical brake. It just takes a little more time, effort and maybe a little money.

In other words, if you don't, you're probably a stupid, cheap-azz, lazy, inconsiderate dumbfawk... or one or more of the above.

Just because your crap hasn't failed, it doesn't mean it can't.

...And again, smartie-boy... good examples!
Your fawkin master cylinder has dual circuits. Why?... 'Cause about 40 years ago, the automotive industry decided that a single circuit wasn't safe enough, so they added some redundancy. (And motor vehicle laws still require the added redundancy of a mechanical backup. ...Of course, since you're not on the street, your rig doesn't need to be as safe, right?)
And how about the rag joint? Most rag joints have a system of pins or other interlocking mechinism, so that if the "rag" fails, the joint will still remain intact. Again, redundancy, designed in by engineers that give a damn about safety.

You want to do stupid stuff, all alone at home where it can't hurt someone else... go ahead. If you're gonna pull that crap out in the world around other people, you're simply being selfish and irresponsible.



.

Anybody with brains and some skill (and a little consideration) can install a mechanical brake. It just takes a little more time, effort and maybe a little money.

In other words, if you don't, you're probably a stupid, cheap-azz, lazy, inconsiderate dumbfawk... or one or more of the above.

Just because your crap hasn't failed, it doesn't mean it can't.

...And again, smartie-boy... good examples!
Your fawkin master cylinder has dual circuits. Why?... 'Cause about 40 years ago, the automotive industry decided that a single circuit wasn't safe enough, so they added some redundancy. (And motor vehicle laws still require the added redundancy of a mechanical backup. ...Of course, since you're not on the street, your rig doesn't need to be as safe, right?)
And how about the rag joint? Most rag joints have a system of pins or other interlocking mechinism, so that if the "rag" fails, the joint will still remain intact. Again, redundancy, designed in by engineers that give a damn about safety.

You want to do stupid stuff, all alone at home where it can't hurt someone else... go ahead. If you're gonna pull that crap out in the world around other people, you're simply being selfish and irresponsible.



.WTF are you talking about?????

Every see a master cylinder leak fluid by the seal on the piston and the pedal goes straight to the floor?....no brakes. You some kinda asshat or what? Dual system with a pin welded to the brake pedal that gets worn and broke off cuz no body ever replaced the bushing.......? Get real dork....

Yep, my line lock is going to hurt somebody one day retard:clown:

WTF are you talking about?????

Every see a master cylinder leak fluid by the seal on the piston and the pedal goes straight to the floor?....no brakes. You some kinda asshat or what? Dual system with a pin welded to the brake pedal that gets worn and broke off cuz no body ever replaced the bushing.......? Get real dork....

Yep, my line lock is going to hurt somebody one day retard:clown:

Y'know... there's no way to be entirely certain that even backup systems won't fail... but ignoring simple, accepted-standard safety mechanisms doesn't make a person any more clever, or more cool, or more macho....

The original question was whether a line lock would work for an e-brake.
The answer is no.
It is not a good substitute.
Your posturing and namecalling doesn't make it a better substitute.

Anybody with brains and some skill (and a little consideration) can install a mechanical brake. It just takes a little more time, effort and maybe a little money.

In other words, if you don't, you're probably a stupid, cheap-azz, lazy, inconsiderate dumbfawk... or one or more of the above.

Just because your crap hasn't failed, it doesn't mean it can't.

...And again, smartie-boy... good examples!
Your fawkin master cylinder has dual circuits. Why?... 'Cause about 40 years ago, the automotive industry decided that a single circuit wasn't safe enough, so they added some redundancy. (And motor vehicle laws still require the added redundancy of a mechanical backup. ...Of course, since you're not on the street, your rig doesn't need to be as safe, right?)
And how about the rag joint? Most rag joints have a system of pins or other interlocking mechinism, so that if the "rag" fails, the joint will still remain intact. Again, redundancy, designed in by engineers that give a damn about safety.

You want to do stupid stuff, all alone at home where it can't hurt someone else... go ahead. If you're gonna pull that crap out in the world around other people, you're simply being selfish and irresponsible.



.calling the kettle what color....?

I'm saying that for my rockcrawler, my line lock makes a great substitute for a line lock.....
oh yeah,























fag.....

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461308

What are you using these for, cutting?

try this company.

http://lokar.com/interior_pages/ebrakes.htm

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461308

What are you using these for, cutting?
Nope... Just using them for what they were designed for... Momentary holding.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I've got dual line locks, and an e-brake.
I'm running 4 wheel discs, disc/disc MC, dual diaphragm booster, a disc/disc combo valve and e-brake calipers in back. The only parts of the whole setup that are stock are the brake pedal assembly and the parking brake pedal assembly. The rest is fabbed or adapted.

Brakes are kinda important, so I took some time to do a relatively functional setup.

Mechanical e-brakes are virtually worthless at slowing vehicles down in an emergency situation-I've been there before in some 60's era vehicles I've owned. Also true of parking situations-at least with drum brakes-if the downhill is making the vehicle go backwards. It's just the design of the Bendix style drum brakes. Now 4 wheel discs are a different matter-but it depends on the design, I've had rear disc e-brakes not hold very well either, it's just the reality of cable operation. As far as heat making the system pressure go up-your brakes operate at 100's of degrees on a regular basis-100* outside air temp isn't enough to stress a brake line or caliper/wheel cylinder. But do I trust a caliper "O ring" or wheel cylinder cup with a parking situation-we trust them with our lives daily, why not. Just my .02 worth.

Nope... Just using them for what they were designed for... Momentary holding.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I've got dual line locks, and an e-brake.
I'm running 4 wheel discs, disc/disc MC, dual diaphragm booster, a disc/disc combo valve and e-brake calipers in back. The only parts of the whole setup that are stock are the brake pedal assembly and the parking brake pedal assembly. The rest is fabbed or adapted.

Brakes are kinda important, so I took some time to do a relatively functional setup.
redundant-armchair engineer.
go design a perfectly safe room and lock yourself inside.

the answer to the origial question seems to be YES.
just maybe not to 'your' specifications.

redundant-armchair engineer.
go design a perfectly safe room and lock yourself inside.

the answer to the origial question seems to be YES.
just maybe not to 'your' specifications.
That all depends on where you choose to get your info.
The mere fact that a lot of people say they believe something's ok doesn't guarantee that to be accurate information.
After all, if you were to poll players of russian roulette, five out of six would tell you it's harmless.... and the sixth wouldn't have much to say.
Often, one or two knowledgable sources can be far more valuable than an uninfomred consensus.
Vanco is in the brake business. Owns a business. 2nd generation. I'd listen to him.
I owned an automotive repair shop for a couple of decades. Began studying automotive tech back when Kaiser still owned Jeep. You can listen to me or not. That's up to you.
Tha manufacturers of line locks warn that they are not to be used for e-brakes. Is choosing not to listen to them, simply because someone on the internet said, "Aw, it's OK", really sound judgement?

All you guys using line locks as long-term parking brakes, must also not believe in jack stands, right? After all, jack hydraulics hardly ever fail...

Okay so the conclusion I have come to is, a line lock is good for temp stuff.

That being sad. I guess I will just have to go and redo the whole mechanical e-brake system. I would use Lokar as my choice. I do plan on having a line lock though regardless just for cutting and temp holding on the front axle.

But with that being sad, and me not having search. What year El Dorado calipers will I need to get the e-brake on them, and to fit a 3/4ton Chevy front 8-lug, and a 14-bolt, 8-lug?

thanks for all the feedback guys. I wasn't trying to go cheap on brakes. Just didn't want to throw a lot of money into one thing, if a cheaper version is just as good. But apparently its not the BEST idea. I don't want to die, kill, or hurt my jeep either. That's why I asked. I wasn't sure of the capability of a line lock.

That all depends on where you choose to get your info.
The mere fact that a lot of people say they believe something's ok doesn't guarantee that to be accurate information.
After all, if you were to poll players of russian roulette, five out of six would tell you it's harmless.... and the sixth wouldn't have much to say.
Often, one or two knowledgable sources can be far more valuable than an uninfomred consensus.
Vanco is in the brake business. Owns a business. 2nd generation. I'd listen to him.I owned an automotive repair shop for a couple of decades. Began studying automotive tech back when Kaiser still owned Jeep. You can listen to me or not. That's up to you.
Tha manufacturers of line locks warn that they are not to be used for e-brakes. Is choosing not to listen to them, simply because someone on the internet said, "Aw, it's OK", really sound judgement?




You might want to review the thread.

Vanco quote: I highly reccomend this system for Off-roading. It's awesome for scenarios where you need your vehicle not moving on a hill, trail etc and nothing beats a line lock.

Every time I see someone telling how much they know, it usually turns out they aren't the expert they think they are. I wouldn't reccomend doing this to a customers car either, but this is Pirate4X4 and most likely, my mod is better than what they did have which was no parking brake.

Again, numerous on here including me have said it works great. Just because you don't like the idea doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Many post back I stated we were talking about parking brakes, not emergency brakes. The guy that started the thread agreed.

Most on here are referring to short term parking brakes, not month long senarios.

Again I ask, what are the chances that the (2) 1/4 turn ball valves, lines and calipers in (2) systems all going bad the same time as the compression leaks off the engine with the tranny in gear at the same time during longer term parking anyway? Not likely!

The electrical/mechanical may have a better chance of failing but most are not even thinking about it for long term use.

The cable parking brakes have many downfalls and limited holding ability. Even the disc ones you use have a high rate of failure and poor adjustment qualities because the mechanisn seezes up and then you have poor rear brakes and a nonworking parking brake at the same time. Even some of the higher dollar t-case units require owner fabbing which could lead to failure.

Blah, blah, blah, .... blah, blah, blah, my Swagelocks work great! Install (2) on your rig for $60 and you'll have hydraulic parking brakes that work.

You might want to review the thread.

Vanco quote: I highly reccomend this system for Off-roading. It's awesome for scenarios where you need your vehicle not moving on a hill, trail etc and nothing beats a line lock.

Every time I see someone telling how much they know, it usually turns out they aren't the expert they think they are. I wouldn't reccomend doing this to a customers car either, but this is Pirate4X4 and most likely, my mod is better than what they did have which was no parking brake.

Again, numerous on here including me have said it works great. Just because you don't like the idea doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Many post back I stated we were talking about parking brakes, not emergency brakes. The guy that started the thread agreed.

Most on here are referring to short term parking brakes, not month long senarios.

Again I ask, what are the chances that the (2) 1/4 turn ball valves, lines and calipers in (2) systems all going bad the same time as the compression leaks off the engine with the tranny in gear at the same time during longer term parking anyway? Not likely!

The electrical/mechanical may have a better chance of failing but most are not even thinking about it for long term use.

The cable parking brakes have many downfalls and limited holding ability. Even the disc ones you use have a high rate of failure and poor adjustment qualities because the mechanisn seezes up and then you have poor rear brakes and a nonworking parking brake at the same time. Even some of the higher dollar t-case units require owner fabbing which could lead to failure.

Blah, blah, blah, .... blah, blah, blah, my Swagelocks work great! Install (2) on your rig for $60 and you'll have hydraulic parking brakes that work.
Perhaps you might want to review the thread:
The ball valve won't. It's the brake system that will. These things are awesome for the trail, but dangerous for a parking brake on a hill over night. Call them and ask their opinions, they'll tell you the same thing.

Perhaps you might want to review the thread:


Hey, you were the one that said listen to Vanco, not me. And he said he highly recomended it. :flipoff2:

Hey, you were the one that said listen to Vanco, not me. And he said he highly recomended it. :flipoff2:
It's this kind of selective intake of information that gets people in trouble.
Read all he had to say.
And again, I include this quote... in case somehow you happened to miss it:
The ball valve won't. It's the brake system that will. These things are awesome for the trail, but dangerous for a parking brake on a hill over night. Call them and ask their opinions, they'll tell you the same thing.
And then there's this one:
And they're going to keep holding pressure until they don't. All calipers fail, all master cylinders fail, all wheel cylinders fail. If you guys want to trust a little o-ring or a little cup in your brake system to keep your rig on a hill over night that's your choice. It's even possible you inspect your brake system weekly for any possible leaks. Maybe you do have calipers that will never fail that where made by God himself. But do you feel comfortable giving this kind of advice to other people?

I've heard too many horror stories. I know of 2 scenarios, one guys Jeep hit another car after he lost his brakes, another guys truck hit a house. The people who make line locks specifically tell you their system is not a parking brake. You're using a system for something it wasn't designed for. You're more then welcome to do so, but you shouldn't be giving that advice to others. As to why those 2 guys used a line lock for a parking brake? They where told it would work by someone else who has done it.
And the quote you seem to want to hold up as a blanket approval of line locks was in response to your quote:
You guys may be right in theory about having hydraulics holding a vehicle for a long peroid on time on the street ect., but most of us here are talking about a wheeler where you need it for a few minutes to an hour at a time.

That's the purpose they were designed for... momentary holding. (I personally would not get out of the cab w/ only line locks holding a vehicle, and if I did have them engaged for an hour, for some reason, I definitely wouldn't walk away from the vehicle w/o some other holding device in place.)

"A few minutes to an hour at a time" is not exactly using them as a parking brake.

Well. at least you got the parking brake thing right this time.

Incredible.
Is that all you have to say?
Your logic has more holes in it than a moth-eaten sweater, but you seem to think everything's OK.

"It works for me" does not equal "It will not fail."

Incredible.
Is that all you have to say?
Your logic has more holes in it than a moth-eaten sweater, but you seem to think everything's OK.

"It works for me" does not equal "It will not fail."



I gave you ample opportunities to let me know how my double valve system would fail. Its way more likely a wheel would fall off going down the trail, and there's 8 lugnuts per wheel. Remember when they used to put left hand lugnuts on old cars and trucks. Not every manufacturer used them, yet everyone else didn't die either.

Go back to your rubber room and make sure you don't have the door hit you on the way in Ralph Nader.

...

Yeah, you're right.. Automotive engineers don't know squat. The mfrs. of line locks are full of it when they say don't use them for parking brakes.

I can't tell you how your system will fail. Nobody without a crystal ball can. I can tell you that it can fail. Will it? Who knows? Is it as safe as a system w/ mechanical backup? Definitely not. Would I trust it to hold a vahicle on a hill for a long period of time? No. Will your line locks do anything for you if you lose hydraulic pressure? Nope!

But you're still right... Right?

...and is that an adjustable proportioning valve you're running? (I hope you didn't just substitute it for a combo valve....)

Wanted to point out that in Missouri there is no part of the vehicle safety inspection for parking brakes. Also-anybody that believes their parking brake will stop them in case of brake failure go out and give it a try, I have. The brake performance is pathetic.

I agree Piratebuggy. I have a brand new truck. And if you hit the e-brake at anything over 30, it won't phase it at all. It's a parking brake, not an e-brake. I have to rely on my main system to stop me.

Which is what I am doing. My main brakes are top notch, all new from start to finish. Good lines, all discs, etc. If they fail, I am screwed, just like everyone else on the road. But I do need something to hold my jeep overnight, or for temp. So for now to get it up and running, I am gonna use a line lock. I live on flat land anyways. I can leave it in Neutral and it won't move. But I am not a fan of that. So for the next couple of weeks. Line locks are the plan.

And since I am beefing up my D300, I will go with a rear trans mounted "Parking Brake".

Thanks again for all yalls info.

The brake performance is pathetic.



I'll take pathetic over non-existent any day.

As previously stated-stopping power from your parking brake is virtually non-existent. Try it sometime if you don't believe it. You are fooling yourself if you believe it will stop you in case of brake failure. The state safety inspection would include an e-brake test if it was intended to be a safety feature. But here they don't even mention it in the manual or require it to be there. By all means have some sort of holding device for parking it-I just get the drift that some believe it will stop you in an emergency. Most barely slow you down if at all.

I think a lot of the guys who would NEVER use a line lock as a parking brake are just reading the thread and shaking their heads having already put their .02 in...I'll say it again...NEVER would I suggest using a line lock as a parking brake.

Or a backup chute when jumping out of an airplane, eh Crusty?

I understand what you're saying resgme. But why would I redo the entire mechanical e-brake, if I am gonna put one on the back of the D300? It's not only useless, but expensive. Like I said, for temporary, a line lock should work fine.

And one more thing. I know yall will really hate me for this. But another measure to keep it from rolling away at home my theft deterrent.
Since all I have for now is a hood lock, an ignition key, and the ole shifter trick. My jeep is relatively easy to steal. So I bought a heavy duty cable lock with the lock integrated on the cable. Bolt cutters won't work on it, and it slides through my rim then the leaf spring and back around the front of the tire. It won't let the tire turn more than half a turn. And if someone does try and steal it, it will take the spring hanger clean off. Which is better than the jeep getting stolen anyways.

So yeah, I am ghetto as hell. :)

And one more thing. ,,,,,,,,,,my theft deterrent.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I bought a heavy duty cable lock with the lock integrated on the cable. Bolt cutters won't work on it, and it slides through my rim then the leaf spring and back around the front of the tire. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,So yeah, I am ghetto as hell. :)
I Fawkin LOVE that!
and there is your parking brake too dude, you're done:grinpimp:

Ditto on the theft detterent. I do this with my dunebuggy after it got stolen many years ago-never got stolen again. Actually watched a couple guys eyeballing it at a car show (I wasn't in the show, just parked nearby) discussing how to easy it would be to steal it-until they saw the big ass chain wrapped through the wheel and around the frame. They kinda laughed and said 'nevermind' and walked off.

Yeah, you're right.. Automotive engineers don't know squat. The mfrs. of line locks are full of it when they say don't use them for parking brakes.

I can't tell you how your system will fail. Nobody without a crystal ball can. I can tell you that it can fail. Will it? Who knows? Is it as safe as a system w/ mechanical backup? Definitely not. Would I trust it to hold a vahicle on a hill for a long period of time? No. Will your line locks do anything for you if you lose hydraulic pressure? Nope!

But you're still right... Right?

...and is that an adjustable proportioning valve you're running? (I hope you didn't just substitute it for a combo valve....)

You are missing the point Lilrocky.

1. Manufactureres of linelocks are not talking about 1/4" 2500 PSI stainless steel ball valves when making their recomendations. Traditional linelocks like micros and what not leak off, and they do it in a visible amount of time.

2. 401 has two valves. Front and rear. He needs pressure to engage them. For them to fail enough to let go, he need both front and rear systems to fail from the hard line out. The lock out is behind the MC, so MC bleed back is not an issue. A line needs to burst, caliper fail, or caliper bleed off, both front and back to have an issue.

3. 401 is not saying park you rig on sanfransisco hill and then ship out on a navy boat for two months with nothing but the valves holding it. He is talking about trail use, and a back up system to in gear, hill parked, etc etc when down for long periods of time.

4. Like many here pointed out, e brakes do not stop shit. Take jeeps internal hat style ebrake on rear disks. Try and stop a jeep from 75 mile an hour with one. The shoes will incinerate.

There has never been a reliable ebrake, thats why MC's are a dual system. So you always have brakes in a single system failure situation. Shitty brakes, but MC chamber is a lot more then a PoS ebrake that wont stop for nothin.

We just had a guy out on a club run that used his mechanical e brake on a very slight incline. It worked earlier in the day so he thought nothing of it. After 5 hours of mud, not so much. His cherokee rolled back and wrote a tj's fender.

That would not have happened with 401's setup.

A micro lock, like the manufactureres your quoting is an entire different storry. I have one on a 82 Cj I run all the time, and wont trust it for 10 seconds.

401 is right and so are you.

You're shooting at two different barrels.

I've worked in repair shops for quite a few years-wanted to add that it's not uncommon for ppl to accidently leave their parking brakes on and drive around. They never notice. Of course I realize alot of ppl have their heads stuffed up their asses when they drive, but it goes to show how little effect a parking brake has on stopping the vehicle.

I've worked in repair shops for quite a few years-wanted to add that it's not uncommon for ppl to accidently leave their parking brakes on and drive around. They never notice. Of course I realize alot of ppl have their heads stuffed up their asses when they drive, but it goes to show how little effect a parking brake has on stopping the vehicle.

Its very easy to drive away with the mechanical brake on, you dont need your head up your ass to do that, but I have never been able to drive off with my linelocks on.

If you wanna be ghetto...but safe: Line locks for temp, and wheel chocks for when you wanna park and take a nap in the middle of a hill above a preschool. I race speedwaybikes so brakes are usually just a nusance for me.:flipoff2:

better yet for the ghettofabulous...a rock anchor

http://www.all4jesus.name/images/ship_anchor_lg_clr_me.gif







and dont even try...its allready got a patent.

Emergency brake no, parking brake yes.

I used a similiar yet more fool proof method of running lines to (2) 1/4 turn hydraulic ball valves from Swage Lock or Swagelok. If you have it in 4 wheel drive and engage both valves, one could fail and the other would still be stopping all 4 wheels.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/401ton/8f1479a9.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/401ton/cf734035.jpg


The swagelocks are the 2 matched arrow like units in the flow position.

I used 3/16" brake lines and 2 common adaptors from NAPA so these are the valves I used:

B-42F2
Ball Vavle 1/8"FPT
Rated @ 1,000 psi

(maybe not enough for Hydro Boost, But with my YJ booster and big master I only have 800 psi of pressure at the calipers)

Price $25.80 ea. plus shipping.

I used Kansas City Valve and Fitting 800-332-6693 or 913-432-4884

I have left them on in the garage for weeks with no bleed off.

Biggest problem was running lines under floor. Just a little time consuming.



Great info, 401 ton, any pics of the fittings\adaptesr to lines or more info on them? I have two valves that look exactly like yours, and am thining on something along those lines.

Thanks!

Great links and info, thanks!

Great info, 401 ton, any pics of the fittings\adaptesr to lines or more info on them? I have two valves that look exactly like yours, and am thining on something along those lines.

Thanks!


I just took my valves to NAPA and they had fittings that matched to brakes lines and the valves. That part was easy. I don't have any more pictures and probably couldn't get one underneath now.


I have now used my valves for more than a year as a short and long term parking brake and have never had a problem. They have never appeared to leak down and hold the vehicle as good as the pressure I apply to the brake pedal. Deffinately one of the most used and best mods I have done to my wheeler!

i drive a large flatbed towtruck in my spare time. it uses a micolock linelock as the park brake. no other provision at all. it doesnt even have a park position on the transmission. you just leave it in neutral, pull the linelock, stomp the brakes and leave.