This Just Might be a First

[billj]

Zuk 2.5 V6 auto..........:cool2:


It's going into a Samurai............:smokin:


http://static.flickr.com/59/193677146_9eef7a8f71.jpg


http://static.flickr.com/51/193677187_a7990553f0.jpg


http://static.flickr.com/48/193677206_7f20835091.jpg


From preliminary measurements, it looks like the bad boy wont fit between the frame rails. I'll be ripping out the 1.6 16V this weekend to see what hits.....

More pics to come..........

[dr_claw]

cool, but from what?????

[95geo]

2.5L grand vit/4 door tracker

i want to do that swap into my tracker, just waiting for a good reason to (blown up 16V)

[AFTERMARKET4X4]

Herre is a 2.5 V6 out of a 1999 Grand Vitara in a customers rig:

http://members.cox.net/suzukispecialists/vitarazuk1.jpg

http://members.cox.net/suzukispecialists/vitarazuk2.jpg

http://members.cox.net/suzukispecialists/vitarazuk3.jpg

Please pretend you didn't see the :rainbow: bright orange 3" body lift blocks!

Sean DeVinney

[Chevzuki]

Sweet.
Looks pretty light and compact, except the DOHC heads.If the block is set at 60* like the small Amercian V-6's, you should have plenty of room.

[billj]

Sean,

Got any pics of the clearance (or lack of) between to frame rails and exhaust manifolds??

TIA

[billj]

I'll do a complete write-up later, but here are a few crappy pics.

http://static.flickr.com/65/203337801_dd2007601c.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/55/203337782_0771afcc8c.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/60/203337754_eb83211632.jpg


I'm waiting for something to go majorly wrong, because so far it's going TOO well.........


Any reason, other than vibes, to NOT bolt the engine DIRECTLY to the frame rails?? No room for rubber mounts............

[catzuk]

Harmonic frequency vibration or something like that. I have heard from many hot rodders that this vibration can and usually does cause something to crack. Simular to exhaust pipe and manifolds cracking. But on a trail rig that doesn't see too much long highway running I don't see it being too much a problem. Anyone else know more on this?

I like the swap. Ought to make for a sweet ride with the auto. :grinpimp:

[AFTERMARKET4X4]

Sean,

Got any pics of the clearance (or lack of) between to frame rails and exhaust manifolds??

TIA

Sorry, no pic's of the exhaust vs/the frame, but the pre-cat converters were cut off of the exhaust so the motor would fit in between the frame rails.....and it's a tight squeeze. I don't think my finger would fit in between there. I could also see a problem with the driveshaft hitting the pass side exhaust if it wasn't lifted so high.

HTH

Sean

[billj]

Any problem with running without the pre-cats?? The driver's side fits with about 1/4" clearance, but the passenger side, no chance. I've aready cut that one off of the manifold and intend to weld it back at 45* from where it was, to pass over the frame rail to the outside..........

[AFTERMARKET4X4]

Any problem with running without the pre-cats?? The driver's side fits with about 1/4" clearance, but the passenger side, no chance. I've aready cut that one off of the manifold and intend to weld it back at 45* from where it was, to pass over the frame rail to the outside..........

Nope, just put the O2 sensor bungs back in the exhaust pipe. My understanding is that by removing the pre-cats and the main cat it add about 5-10hp.....but that's just what I have heard. I can tell you for a fact that the 2.5 Liter in a Samurai with stock gears and 31's lights up the tires on the pavement!

Sean

[billj]

Thanks for the info, the cat's are going bye-bye..........

[95geo]

I'm waiting for something to go majorly wrong, because so far it's going TOO well.........


Any reason, other than vibes, to NOT bolt the engine DIRECTLY to the frame rails?? No room for rubber mounts............

am i the only one who sees the irony in this statement? :laughing:

looks good so far, i'd hate for you to crack an engine mount and have a trashed block, you should probably find a way to get some poly or rubber engine mounts on it

[Orionn]

Bill;

Is the first O2 sensor befor or after the pre cat?

It make a difference to the computer. if its befor, you dont have a problem, if its after you might have a problem.

[billj]

am i the only one who sees the irony in this statement? :laughing:

looks good so far, i'd hate for you to crack an engine mount and have a trashed block, you should probably find a way to get some poly or rubber engine mounts on it


Irony not lost.........:D

I'm gonna make some new supports that will give me space for rubber mounts.......

[billj]

Bill;

Is the first O2 sensor befor or after the pre cat?

It make a difference to the computer. if its befor, you dont have a problem, if its after you might have a problem.


The O2 sensors are before the pre-cats..........

[Orionn]

The O2 sensors are before the pre-cats..........

Your good then :D

[Seb]

been done with a grand vitara motor...
Depot has it now...

[geberhard]

Bill!


Pretty sweet swap, very nice and tight. I would try fabbing some poly mounts, or at a minimum "sandwich" rubber between mounts and grade 8 the heck out of it. Can you redo part of the frame rail to have the mounts coming from outside (i.e. outboard)? I am thinking something similar to a CJ outboading spring mounts kinda setup almost like (sorr, no photochop on this machine)

pass side front frame
. |...|
. |...|
. /....|
A|.....|
. \....|

Then mount from A to block with tube an poly bushing, and repeat the same on driver's side? The A mount would be notched and trussed on the framerail.

Good luck and abracos!

Gui

[billj]

I've come up with a couple of ideas to get rubber mounts in there. While I have the entire front off the rig, I'm going to redo the shox mounts (which I never really was happy with) and this will open up space along the side of the engine for a better arrangement.

My spotter will be coming over this weekend for us to wrap a lot of this up and he has a kick-ass digital camera. We'll get some good pics........

[5OH2GO]

To mount up the 2.0L in my Sammy, I used tabs welded to the frame where the stock mounts used to be.
I then cut some flat plate and drilled holes to bolt to the motor itself using the stock mounts as a template.
From the plates to the frame, I bent up some small (6") pieces of tube and welded on another small piece about 2" long perpendicular to the main piece, os it looks like a "T".
This enables me to put two poly bushings in the ends and a small bolt sleeve through the middle.
You will then need to weld the main tube to the plate.
Once you align the small "T" end with the tabs, you can then use a grade 8 bolt, and slide it through the whole assy.

Voila tubular motor mounts with poly bushings!

I hope this made some sense?

Sorry I don't have pics of this... :(

[deepmud]

Bill - did you see this thread?
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=493880
Zukigirl has a 2.5 v6

[nose]

Sean,

Got any pics of the clearance (or lack of) between to frame rails and exhaust manifolds??

TIA

Hi Bill,

I have the 2.0 V6 with MT in my Smaurai; the block is identical to yours and uses mostly the same periphery as yours. The cats do fit between the rails on mine and I used the factory rubber engine bushings with new mounting arms.
Check out the pics in my built up thread:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=283075

Best regards,

Norbert

[billj]

Thanks or the links guys!!! I hadn't seen these and since my red star expired, it's sucks to search........

[Gonzalo Bravo]

Heyy!! I did not notice this !!! Congrats for the newborn!!!

[IH454SSII]

What t case are you going to use with this set up??

[Gonzalo Bravo]

Did you get the wiring diagram?

[billj]

What t case are you going to use with this set up??


Until the end of the year, we'll be running a 4.89 Samurai t-case behind the auto tranny and 1.81 Vitara box............ The Samurai case is surrounded by a steel cage of sorts, to try to help it survive. In any case, we'll try to take it easy with the loud pedal, otherwise :nuke:

We're still analyzing options for the upgrade of the second case, it will depend mostly on finances. If we continue like we are now, with little sponsorship, we'll likely go Toy. If something good happens with sponsors, then we'll look at high-dollar options........

[billj]

Did you get the wiring diagram?


We didn't get the wiring diagram, but we got the engine running just the same..........:smokin:

[Gonzalo Bravo]

We didn't get the wiring diagram, but we got the engine running just the same..........:smokin:

Thats great!! when you expect to have the car burning tires?

[billj]

This weekend, I expect............. Pics on Monday.........

[UZI 9mm]

This weekend, I expect............. Pics on Monday.........


Awesome, can't wait to see them:cool2:

[billj]

A few pics.

http://www.4x4brasil.com.br/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=59934&d=1156186251

http://www.4x4brasil.com.br/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=59935&d=1156186288

http://www.4x4brasil.com.br/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=59936&d=1156186324

http://www.4x4brasil.com.br/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=59937&d=1156186342

http://www.4x4brasil.com.br/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=59938&d=1156186359



The ramp's for a stand at an adventure sports fair to be held in São Paulo this week, the rig will be on display there. Maybe it'll attract some sponsorship.........:p :)


I don't have time to write about it, suffice to say that this new motor is "slightly" more POWERFUL than the 1.6 .............:smokin:

Tomorro I should be able to type something and post more pics........

[billj]

A quick report on the swap.............


As some know, we exploded the1.6 16V in April of this year, during a comp. With the aid of our sponsor Suzucar, we rebuilt the top of the motor, replacing the head and some other parts. It ran well, but we noticed that when the RPMs were high, gray smoke came from the exhaust, not a good thing for a competition rig. A swap was inevitable, so 03 options were considered:

- another Suzuki 1.6 16V
- GM 2.2
- Suzuki 2.5 V6

We were leaning towards the GM 2.2 when Suzucar called me, telling me about a totalled Grand Vitara that had entered their shop. After discussion and negotiation, the course was set.

First problem......... I hadn't even measured anything to see if the new motor would fit in the rig...... Tape measure here, tape measure there, I saw that would be tight, but only trying to install that we would know.

To remove the 1.6 was the easiest part, it took literally 50 minutes from loosening the first bolt of the front clip until the motor was hanging on the engine hoist out of the rig.

With space to measure, I saw immediately that the exhaust manifolds would not fit between the frame rails. Removing them and with the motor hanging on the hoist, we went to look for the other interferences. To my suprise, there were few, the most significant being the radiator, the engine/tranny assembly is around 3 inches longer than the old setup. But the problem was solved rather easily, simply by moving the radiator forward.

http://www.4x4brasil.com.br/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60045&d=1156270435
http://www.4x4brasil.com.br/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60046&d=1156270514

I tried to use the original motor mounts, but they left the motor very high betweeen the frame rails, as I had mentioned a few weeks ago. After consideration, we decided to make new supports. They came out really nicely and the engine sits neatly inside the frame.

As for the rest, it was that tedious work that any engine swap involves, a lot of wiring and plumbing, all having to be connected and arranged to not hang up on anything and to be functional.

Obviously, since the rig was in pieces, we took advantage of this to do other things. The most significant was the replacement of the front Air Shox supports. I never liked the "design" that I had fabricated previously, which came off of the factory spring supports. We cut all that out and made new supports out os sheet steel and tube. They couldn't have come out better......

http://www.4x4brasil.com.br/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60047&d=1156270567



Other than that, we eliminated a small leak in the full hydro cylinder, revised the winch, touched up the rollcage and wheel paint, repositioned the battery and made a new instrument panel.

We still have some things to do. I'm going to redo the brakelines and find a way to install headlights, which no longer fit because of the radiator being moved forward.

http://www.4x4brasil.com.br/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60048&d=1156270615

[deepmud]

I can't see the images on 4x4brasil - not even a red x here on POR - my email notification has the address', and there I tried a copy/paste in new window, no-go - both IE and N

[deepmud]

I can't see the images on 4x4brasil - not even a red x here on POR - my email notification has the address', and there I tried a copy/paste in new window, no-go - both IE and N

[billj]

Dunno Wayne, I'm I.T. challenged.................. For me they come right up..........

Anyone else see or not see the pics??

[tdavis]

They work for me..

[IH454SSII]

i see the pics.

[deepmud]

Dunno Wayne, I'm I.T. challenged.................. For me they come right up..........

Anyone else see or not see the pics??
and now I see them :shaking:

hehe

Wayne - Rotozuk

Erik - Deepmud

:flipoff2:

I'm busy enjoying pics. Must'a just been Alaska or something :D

[billj]

and now I see them :shaking:

hehe

Wayne - Rotozuk

Erik - Deepmud

:flipoff2:

I'm busy enjoying pics. Must'a just been Alaska or something :D



brain fart.............:p


Sorry 'bout that, Chris..........:D


BTW, I use that batch of pics from your fishing trip as a screen saver. Brasil is very nice and all, but oh how I miss scenery like that............. <sigh>