Hey,

I just did a TOTAL newbie job tonight, and yes, I'm quite excited.

I installed my first U-joint! :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Under the careful tutallege of Timm, I managed to F it up even after watching him do the first one. He gently reprimanded me (as gently as he can anyway), and removed and reinstalled it. Maybe I'll learn how to do it *next* time the driveline gets serviced (in about 300,000 miles he reckons).

It was the 12" long intermediate driveshaft between the transmission and divorce-mated transfercase. Tomorrow the part-time LT-230 gets installed, that is if the proper seals come in to the bearing shop!

Then, off to 6-States to have the original 127 rear driveline shortened for the front, and a new beefy rear driveline made. I'm going to custom candy-stripe it for that added touch of comedy (something has to add levity to this behemoth!).

I have rebuilt the clutch pully assembly on my York compressor, and after I find a new electrode contactor assembly I can re-assemble it and Timm can start on the bracket for it.

Lots of crazy stuff going on right now, I'm being kicked out of our shop space in 7 days and we're trying to get as much done as we can until we absolutely have to move. Anyone wanna help???

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you all that I am, at heart, just a newbie. :D :flipoff2:

Later,

Michael

PS Come on! Fess up! Any other long-time newbies out there just discovering the 'basics' of mechanic'ry???

Mike, give me a call when you have a minute. 223 4131.

Dude...I can't believe your even posting this...And this WHOLE time I thought your were a fabrication guru...<sigh> ;)

I hope it's not Timm's shop that your junk is stored at...I still need my part time puck!

That sucks having to move! If your anything like me, all my parts are sitting in a very disorganized "organized" fashion, and if I ever had to move, I'd be in a world of hurt in the "find it" department.

--D

some times micheal I swear your:smokin: crack!

your first u-joint?

ever?

remember this post over on EE?

I do

"Muskyman,

Here's where the internet really shines. LOTS of people reading websites, gleaning their 'educated' opinions based on other people's first hand (or even second hand) experiences.

Well, here is mine.

I have the part-time conversion on my LT-95. I have NOT given up CDL. When I engage CDL, that is when the front propshaft engages, and it is a TRUE 50/50 split.

TRUST ME, when you are driving in 2WD, the handling is MUCH better. Yes, I have driven delivery vans, pick-ups, Suburbans, the lot. I have even driven my very own (yes, I have lots of experience with OTHER LR's), RR in both front wheel drive and rear wheel drive. IMO, the front wheel drive option is a bad one. I had to do it when I was getting my drivelines rebuilt, and did the front end one week and the rear end the next. That is where I have experience driving both.

Even if you never did anything with your front hubs as far as making them free-wheeling, the reduced stress on your front end, not to mention your precious little CV joints, will pay off.

I know personally 4 different people who are running Timm's 2wd/4wd LT-230 conversion. NONE of them have experienced any problems or regret.

If you truly believe that the 'stock' unmodified LT-230 is one of the best things LR has going for it, then you have obviously never seen one with the center diff grenaded. Yes, the LT-230 is a great t-case, but, it can be improved.

The reason the modern coil-sprung LR's were designed to be run in full-time 4wd, is becasue of the weak LR 2-pin carriers (they are a direct decendant of the Rover saloon's from the '30's). If you recall, some of the early RR's and 110's were designed and offered with a part-time factory LT-230. Replace your weak 2-pin carrier with an ARB, or any other worthy 4-pin carrier (locker or not), and you will have cured a definite weak link in your drivetrain.

When (and IF), you have any personal experience regarding matters LR, please share them. Until you have first hand knowledge of a topic so subjective as an LT-230 transfercase conversion, please hold off on the uninformed opinion spreading.

I can appreciate that you probably have a vast knowledge of a lot of subjects, but this conversation is not one of them. If it were, you wouldn't be stating half-truths and misconceptions. The only problem with the LT-230 conversion is that there are only a handful of them in the country, and no one has any experience with them.

I have driven my 80-inch Series One almost 4000 miles now with the conversion and I have no problems to report with handling or the installation of the conversion.

Granted, it's not for the faint of heart. No serious conversion is. But, when you find yourself wanting/needing a 2wd option for your LR, this one is certainly viable.

If you have any questions about ruining the 'value' of your Disco, please keep in mind I'm doing another LT-230 2wd conversion on my 145 scratch built truck. Trust me, that thing is no lightweight as far as actual weight will be concerned and monetary investment as well. If I remotely thought that what I was doing was a bad idea or would ruin it's 'value', I wouldn't. I have too much at stake with these vehicles to be putting my faith in theories or conversions that aren't tested. ALL of the ones we are doing are battle proven and tested over the LONG haul.

I am not in the LR business to make conversions, sell parts, etc...but, what it is that I do with the LR's is actually use them HARD. If the conversions were going to be a weak link I wouldn't have done them.

Later,

Michael Slade
mike@fogstock.com

PS If there are any questions about the LT-230 conversions please contact me off list. "



are you for real dude...people who use 4 x 4s change u-joints where I come from
:confused: :confused:

Dude, lighten up on the Serious One. The only u-joints in modern LR's are on the driveshafts anyway. I have never, ever replaced a u-joint either. :p When my front shaft let go I just upgraded to Tom Woods cv shafts, and have had no trouble since.

Blister

sorry was I that harsh?

now I am :confused:

even tom woods shafts need a rebuild at some point.

if its in the middle of no-where then what?

Touche'

I always carry spare shafts.

Blister

Is it even possible to break a u-koint prior to breaking the axles and or the ring and pinion on a rover? I have replaced u-joints here and there but that was to convert to a bigger style u-joint not becasue of breakage. Serious one carry on with your "thinking out loud" nature. Your information is very valuable to me. I didn't even know about this conversion (LT230) prior to hearing about it on this list.

Way

Originally posted by BillnSandi
Dude, lighten up on the Serious One. The only u-joints in modern LR's are on the driveshafts anyway. I have never, ever replaced a u-joint either. :p When my front shaft let go I just upgraded to Tom Woods cv shafts, and have had no trouble since.

Blister

Don't forget about the new trans that came with the TW Drive-shafts! :flipoff2:

Musky,

You bring up a valid point. BUT, I have never claimed to be a fabrication genus, master mechanic, nor even all that knowledgable about things as mysterious as the inner workings of a transmission or exactly what it is that a cam shaft does (I think I know what it does, but just not exactly how...).

Yes, I have never changed a UJ. I have always had my drivelines rebuilt by 6-States, so have never had to deal with them. Yes I know how to change a CV, so that procedure isn't foreign.

Your extended quote of my post on EE still is valid in my point of view. Until someone has a personal experience on any given topic, their opinion is highly, well, um, how do I say this politely, irrelevant (or misguided or uninformed).

You, in that particular case, were rendering judgements about what the part-time transfercase did and did not do, and were spreading misinformation and heresay as if you knew exactly what the t-case did. In fact, there are probably only about 4 people in the states who have even driven a part-time t-case in a coil-sprung LR, so I didn't think that you knew much about it. In fact, I know for sure that you have never even seen or driven a truck with Cooper's conversion and when you were making comments about it like you had 'been there done that', it was, well, a bit infuriating.

Musky, I like you. We have had some good e-mails in the past, but I still stand by my comments above.

Anyway, back to my 'thinking out loud'. I hope I haven't 'shattered' anyone's opinion about me or ruined any diety-like status that I might have aquired simply by conveying my own first-hand knowledge and experience.

Yes, I am a 'newbie' in the broad sense of the word when it relates to things mechanical, especially cars. If it offends or misleads some, well, tough. :flipoff2:

Michael

"diety-like status"

Thats reserved for Cooper. :)

Ron

michael,

as I said then in that thread you missed my point, I was not the one passing missguided info along.

I was not posting this to :nuke: you

more a chuckle and a poke in the ribs

I couldent resist when you posted you never changed a u-joint

the fact is some of the best fabricators out there start as guys with vision others lack hooking themselves up with people that can do the work they think up

back in 1989 I talked to steve dinan about doing a centrifugal blower in my BMW. he laughed at me. I stated all the reasons they where better then turbos. he being the turbo guru laughed at me and started playing with them now he sells all kinds of blower packages.

I by no means am knocking your visions I agree with that kinda talk on these forums. thats where the ideas come from

if you go back and read that post on EE once more(as I did yesterday) you will see I was thinking out load as you like to.

:)

Yes, it's definitely possible to grenade a driveline without taking out a R&P set or axles.

I twisted my front GBR shaft in half (yes, front) by coming over a rock ledge and having the rear wedged and the front hook up really good. I didn't even have my ARBs engaged! I just eased out the clutch and in on the gas (not romping on it like I usually do) and it loaded up and then popped!

I also grenaded the CV on my rear driveline by climbing a steep rock wall with high traction. I was easing up (yes, again, I do know how to do this) and got the truck about a foot up the hill and the CV let go. The truck slammed down to the bottom of the hill and the driveline tore the crap outta my muffler. I'm glad it was a rear and didn't take out my tranny!! :flipoff2:

I carry spare front and rear shafts all the time due to these experiences.

And the most interesting experience I've had with these things has been the cause for most of my u-joint swapping experience. Apparently the little rover 3.9 with the blower is enough to crush (yes, pulverize) the needle bearings in the caps of the CV u-joint. I've done this three times!! The first two could have been just faulty yokes binding or not enough grease (even though I had just greased them) but the most recent one actually had greasy pulverized steel in the caps when I pulled it! Those of you who were at the Chile Challenge the first day saw me change that one in the parking lot before the event even started!

-John

My image of Mike is completely shattered. In real life he is probably about 5’4” with ILS (imaginary lat syndrome, this is where he THINKS his latissimus dorsi muscles are so large that his arms won’t go down all the way.):D

I have replaced 5 or 6 U joints, It really isn’t that difficult, but the last time I did it I screwed it up. Its like changing your oil, its easy, but who hasn’t started filling it back up with out the drain plug. Its a newbie move, and when you do it you say “what was I thinking?”, and then you think “ did anyone see that?”


-Jeff Briggs

Dewd! WTF? What CV's are you running...I have a feeling they are Jaguar right? Smells like GBR needs to re-think the CV issue...

I'll be working with Jessie...If I can ever get through...Lines busy most of the day!

--D


Originally posted by Rover Addiction
Yes, it's definitely possible to grenade a driveline without taking out a R&P set or axles.

I twisted my front GBR shaft in half (yes, front) by coming over a rock ledge and having the rear wedged and the front hook up really good. I didn't even have my ARBs engaged! I just eased out the clutch and in on the gas (not romping on it like I usually do) and it loaded up and then popped!

I also grenaded the CV on my rear driveline by climbing a steep rock wall with high traction. I was easing up (yes, again, I do know how to do this) and got the truck about a foot up the hill and the CV let go. The truck slammed down to the bottom of the hill and the driveline tore the crap outta my muffler. I'm glad it was a rear and didn't take out my tranny!! :flipoff2:

I carry spare front and rear shafts all the time due to these experiences.

And the most interesting experience I've had with these things has been the cause for most of my u-joint swapping experience. Apparently the little rover 3.9 with the blower is enough to crush (yes, pulverize) the needle bearings in the caps of the CV u-joint. I've done this three times!! The first two could have been just faulty yokes binding or not enough grease (even though I had just greased them) but the most recent one actually had greasy pulverized steel in the caps when I pulled it! Those of you who were at the Chile Challenge the first day saw me change that one in the parking lot before the event even started!

-John

GBR gets all of his driveshafts from the six states that is within 1 mile of GBR. Series one discos have a small area for a front driveshaft. If I am not mistaken, you could fit a much larger driveshaft in your vehicle than the one that was sent to you. It is nice to have interchangable parts, but having a product that is made to the lowest common denominator isn't the way to go IMHO. I am curious why more people don't just call six states (ask for Eric) and order the beefiest driveshaft that they have room for? It would be stronger and 1/2 the price. I am confused.
Is it that people didn't know where he was getting them, or is it the measuring.

Way

Edit: For the record not trying to put GBR down. More curious than anything.

Way,

As with most things in life, you can get it cheaper and/or faster if you go directly to the manufacturer.

Many people on this planet are either too ignorant or too busy (maybe even lazy), to figure this out. They, in turn, find out through the 'middlemen' that they provide a product that is something great to have. When Joe Blow finds out that he can get Widget X from Supplier Y at Price Z, he goes ahead and buys it.

Most people know that your local grocery store doesn't slaughter cows, but again, it's a hell of a lot easier to buy your steaks there than go to the feedlot (or raise your own).

In economic terms I think this has an official name (but I can't remember it).

Anyway, we've been using 6-states for years now. I didn't know that people were going anywhere else until GBR started selling CV drivelines. When I saw them and said to him they looked like the ones we were getting from 6-States he did appear a bit sheepish like I had just let the cat out of the bag.

I see no shame in buying products from middlemen, but I also enjoy (to some extent), being a tad more resourceful and buying wholesale when I can. I would estimate that only about 10-15% of all my purchases that are vehicle related are at retail. At least 75% of them are at wholesale, and a small percentage is at less than wholesale.

But again, that's me, and I don't even know how to change an effin' U-joint properly (but I do know how to change my oil- FINALLY!).

:flipoff2:

Michael

ok you guys really want the cat outa the bag

in every biz to biz yellow pages in the country under driveshafts theres a listing for a company near you that builds and repairs drivlines. most are spicer dealers and can get what you need.

companys like 6-states and tom woods(used to be with 6 states) are popping up and catering to the hardcore wheeler guys. the long travel stuff out there and multi-cv stuff is still just spicer parts from other application combined to fit your wheeler.

but if you are willing to ask the local shaft shops they can often do the same things. and if you cane get the part numbers then no problem the welding and balencing is the same as what they do all day long.

Yes, I realize that Bill gets his shafts from six states. My issue when I first got them was measuring and getting an adapter. I looked at the parts and then took the whole thing to a local shop here (Driveline Services of West Sacramento) and they rebuilt and rebalanced the shafts. I only bought my original shafts from Bill and then one extra later (again to include the adapter and not worry about measuring.)

To be totally fair, the shaft I twisted in half was the smaller diameter meant to clear the cats, but I have since replaced that one with a larger diameter shaft that has clearanced my cats.

I usually carry stock shafts as spares since the only issues I ever had with the stock shafts were u-joint vibe issues and not strength. Did you ever look at your stock front shaft? It's solid! You're not going to break that thing. The u-joints are what goes on those and that's from miles of vibrating and being forced past their normal working angles. For a trail spare, that's fine.

The CVs on these shafts are the standard 1310 spicer units that most everyone is running. I was contemplating having Jesse make me up his 1-ton unit (Down Merv!) especially for the rear. I'll probably do that next time around.

I've also ordered a Tom Woods shaft to see how their build quality compares since I'm working on putting together another rig.

-John

Tom woods is exponentially higher quality than six states. If you look at some of the off-road sites he has specials for 10% off if you mention the site when ordering.

As far as six states go, they have all of the same info that GBR has. You can ask Eric to make the standard one he does for all of Bills stuff and you won't even have to measure. The adapters are made in a batch. And they just pull them off of the shelf. Make sure to have them balance the driveshaft with the spacer on. I ran into this problem I while back. I sent them my stock shafts so that they could start producing the adapter there. about three years ago. I was too cheap to buy the SG ones.

Way

Yeah, they said they had the adapters there ready to go, but I already have a few adapters, so I just went with the shafts. I think I'll be needing one more adapter a little later and then I should be set. I am going to have a stronger rear shaft for my D110 made too in the near future although I'll probably run it up to Jesse at High angle and try out his work on that one.

The guys in Sacramento have not been real helpful with getting this stuff done right with quality components so i think I'll go elsewhere from now on.

-John

hey Folks, I've had two U-joint failures over time with my rigs,
One was in my old F250 ( now gone )... I noticed a squeek ( I Like the windows open and radio off when I drive!!! ) ... got home and the u-joint was about to sieze.... I replaced it, no biggy.
Another was on my old super Disco, apparently the 3+ inch lift didn't llike my abuse and the mud on a pre-norhtwest pacific team trophy challenge training run, and started complaining on the way home ( again, radio off, ...the truck talks! ), after several stops, and inspections, my navigator at the time ( Jim Holmes ) and I felt it needed pulling, so off it came! fortunately it was at a Carls Juinor parking lot so we got a burger, locked the diff, and headed for home! I rebuilt the front D-shaft ( stock ) & put it in the series and bought a CV jobber for the mighty D...

Another note on Carls Juinor... pulled up the other day, in the Killer bee (D90 with 37's and free flowing exhaust, and pirate stickers, Dents and Mud ).... and the girl at the drive through said:
Take me with you!.... I haven't told my Preggy wife yet :) It was pretty funny!
:beer: