Rag joint coupling, power steering box side. Non-scout source?

[larboc@hotmail.com]

I just discoverd that the ps box and mid shaft assembly i bought lacks the power steering side rag joint coupler. Is there another source for this? I think the shaft is 3/4 inch diameter. Its from a 74 scout with PS.

[troutbum]

http://www.borgeson.com/images/u16n.jpg

Don't bother with the rag joint....I have a used one if you are interested.

[larboc@hotmail.com]

k, well, my manual steering bell joint in my 74 is 3/4 but the ps box i got is .8". SO, I need a .8" rag joint coupler.

[larboc@hotmail.com]

err i guess its .8125, but with a pair of calipers on the splines, it measures about .8

How much you want for that used U?

[corncrasher]

It's not hard to find a joint that will fit the splines on your steering gear. I got one of of a 90 something dodge pickup. I would much rather do that then put in a rag joint.

[larboc@hotmail.com]

K, I didn't realize rag joints were so undesirable. Also didn't realize it is a common shaft size. I checked agianst the blazer's gear from the donar truck and the chevy is smaller by quite a bit. nothing newer than 85 in local salvage yard, but there is a good one 20 miles away with newer stuff. Do you happen to remember anything else about the dodge? fullsize or durango etc. were the splines the same on both sides as the scout? did you have the 13/16 or the 3/4 input on you steering gear?

[misterfubar]

I replaced my rag joint with some small PTO yokes and a ujoint. Basically the same thing as going with Borgeson, or flaming river joint, but I only spent about 15 bucks on the whole setup.

[larboc@hotmail.com]

doesn't the vibration from a solid mount give you "numb paw"?

[larboc@hotmail.com]

also, where did you find the yokes that fit? Farm and home store? thinking of machining off splines and cutting keyway.

[Eagle-Mark]

doesn't the vibration from a solid mount give you "numb paw"?I noticed no more vibration with the Borgeson than the rag joint. If you do a body lift you need this as well or cut firewall and move steering column. Safety issue first, loose the rag joint or it will break with bigger tires off road. Worse with body lift.

[Harvester of Sorrow]

doesn't the vibration from a solid mount give you "numb paw"?

Some people think that by having a direct coupling to the input shaft of the box (no rag or flex joint) that there "might" be additional wear on that seal and shaft...

I call those people anal...

If you plan on wheeling that thing at all do yourself a favor and toss that rag joint into the garbage. Get something of what has been mentioned.

When a slight body lift is used and you add the steering force required for 33's and locker in the front (regardless of PS) you will see rag joint failure from trail driving.

My particular old 76' Scout II went through 2 rag joints, both new. It had a 1" body lift and 33's. When you are pinned on the trail and power steering is done or not assisting...you must crank the wheel. You want a positive METAL joint. You do not want a piece of tablecloth...

[corncrasher]

K, I didn't realize rag joints were so undesirable. Also didn't realize it is a common shaft size. I checked agianst the blazer's gear from the donar truck and the chevy is smaller by quite a bit. nothing newer than 85 in local salvage yard, but there is a good one 20 miles away with newer stuff. Do you happen to remember anything else about the dodge? fullsize or durango etc. were the splines the same on both sides as the scout? did you have the 13/16 or the 3/4 input on you steering gear?


I had 4 or 5 steering shafts all from late 90's dodge pickup's. the splines for the steering gear were the same and I cut the other end off which left a hollow tube that slide over the stock scout shaft perfectly and then I welded it in place. can't remember exact sizes and years.

[larboc@hotmail.com]

allright, since I can't find a replacement u-joint for my stock steering shaft, I think I may have an idea. I have several spare driveshafts left that came with the truck when it got converted to 4wd as well as the stock front driveshaft. I am thinking about having each drilled out, then weld or cut a keyway in them to mount them to the stock stuff. It appears I will have just enough clearence. Any thoughts?

I also have the stock dana 20 yoke so that I could simply weld everything together and just unbolt the whole assembly.

If nothing else I thought it might be worth the cool factor of having a 1310 steering shaft.

[binderbasher]

Keep in mind this is your steering your talking about, this is not the place to take shortcuts. Several international vendors can get you a complete borgeson shaft, some are anti vibration, and some even have a slip joint so you can go 1-3 inch body lift or none, without modifying your shaft. There about 150-200 dollars. Much less then a two week stay in a hospital.

[RustoleumWhite]

1310 joints for for your steering?!? Are you on CRACK!


So let me get this strait, your missing 1/2 your rag joint. The part that fits over the splines on the box. So because of that your going to hack the shit out of other parts and grosly oversized componants to cobble something together?? WTF


Put and and in the clasifieds for a rag joint. I'm sure you can get one for the price of shipping, then go the parts store and find a replacement 'rag' part in the 'HELP' section, under 'Big Ford'.

Or both Flaming River or Borgson or a couple of the other companies out make and sell BRAND NEW rag joints.

Or, and the better solution, pony up a couple of buck for a proper U-Joint to eliminate the rag joint all together. If you have the earlier steering colum with the nicer, 'rebuildable' u-joint on the upper shaft you just need a joint to replace the rag. ~$70 or less. If you have the later column with the crappier stamped joint your better getting 2 joints and a piece of shaft to replace it all ~$160. Some Scout Vendors even make it eaisier for you and you can buy the whole kit.


There are some other speed shops the can get you lower prices joints, and they are good but both the FR and Borgson parts are quality units.


DO NOT HACK JOB YOUR STEERING
it is one of the most important systems on ANY rig.

[troutbum]

If nothing else I thought it might be worth the cool factor of having a 1310 steering shaft.

Do the world a favor and immediately sell any tools you own and do not ever fab anything again.:shaking:

[Bill usn-1]

I'm assuming all the FAQ links are dead...
Here's a link to AFCO (http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/afcostore/getsubclasses.cfm?ClassID=110&CategoryID=8) that I listed in my hydroboost thread.

[larboc@hotmail.com]

ok, um thanks for that.

ANNNYway. IF I were to have gone 1310 I would have taken all the parts to a machine/driveshaft shop to be built up using lathes and the associated spline cutting tools that I don't have. I don't do hack work when it matters.

However, I was able to locate a replacement u-joint at o'reillys today. Smallest they had, even smaller than a 5-92x. However it uses needle bearings instead of bushings. I hope that doesn't pose some problem I cant think of.

Since I have both a power steering and manual steering shaft, right now it looks like the best solution will be to take it to the man and have him make the 2 u-joint shaft from these parts. I wish that my bell joint was 13/16, it would make everything much easier. could just bolt it up since it has little play.

The guys at the shop said that they cant enlarge it from 3/4 to 13/16 and retain the splines. Maybe they can take my ps box down to 3/4?

on another note, I was able to locate a box side coupler at a salvage yard on a ps box. Going to take a trip tomorow and see if I can use it, or if the box is 3/4 by any chance.

getting mixed oppinoins on rag joints here...

on re-reading my post about the 1310 idea, I definatley see how that looked like a candadite for the scary steering site. On second thought, i think i may make up a "heavy duty" shaft from scrap just for a picture.

[Bill usn-1]

What are you talking about doing?
Did you look at all the steering ujoint options in the link I provided?
We are talking bolt on.
Or buy 2 and the D shaft to go between and make your own flaming river kit!

Sounds like you are talking about turning the outside diameter of the splines down from the 13/16 to the 3/4????

It's not a matter of "if" you break a rag joint...it's when...BTDT on the trail. Those large rivets are a pain in the XSS to remove on the trail if you don't have OBA!!

[RustoleumWhite]

I don't know why he's talking about modify ANY thing to get the steering to work. ALL that parts he needs to put steering back together are availiable from parts stores, aftermarket, junk-yard or OTHER SCOUT GUYS THAT HAVE THE PROPER SHIT LAYING AROUND.

Do it RIGHT, spend a little money, buy the proper aftermarket u-joints that fit the splines currently on your box and be done in the time it takes to drink 2 beers.

There are places to fab your own stuff and make junk cool, but for what you have to do, its just not worth it. $150 or less in parts and your DONE, and replacement parts are easy to come by and no custom work.

If you compare the size of a 1310 joint to an FR or Borgson steering joint, you will understand what we are saying. I think just the sheer WEIGHT of the 1310 will do BAAAD things to the input seals and bearing on the steering box, not to meniton hit things in the engine compartment.

[uglyscout]

I don't know why he's talking about modify ANY thing to get the steering to work.

Answer: Because he is an ass hat :shaking: - and if you have read any of his other threads you will know what I mean. This is about the 10th time this board has told him/shown him how to do something and he has disregarded all the advise and gotten himself in over his head. Let him weld a 1310 u-joint into his steering system in order to save $20 - then we can be witness to the carnage.

[larboc@hotmail.com]

Answer: Because he is an ass hat :shaking: - and if you have read any of his other threads you will know what I mean. This is about the 10th time this board has told him/shown him how to do something and he has disregarded all the advise and gotten himself in over his head. Let him weld a 1310 u-joint into his steering system in order to save $20 - then we can be witness to the carnage.

This is my first major off-road project. I have done research on everthing before I start a new aspect of the truck, you will have to excuse me if I miss somthing. I am also a college student so money is a bit tight, however I do not have a problem spending on things that matter. I am not really sure what you mean, but I have read and re-read all the posts where people are trying to help me and have gotten SOOO much information on this project I can't thank everyone enough. I never would have been able to do this project with out P4x4 and BB and their FAQ's. I have probably brought up some pretty stupid ideas and I appreciate you guys checking me on them, even if it does go overboard a bit but hey, thats pirate. On most of these suggestions, with the exception of a 14 bolt, I have acted on the suggestions and really apprieciate you guys giveing the time to give them.

btw, I really have to thank Scouty and slipscomb here latley for the help on the ps conversion on this right hand drive scout, slipscomb said that itted be close with the v8 but it would fit, and sure enough, with about 1/8 to spare. Never would have thought that just by looking.

I have everything out now and I am not going to end up needing to extend the shaft. Just need a 3/4 to 13/16 36 spline u-joint. Hopefully I can find something salvage but it is so hot here when I'm not at work that it may be worth just ordering an aftermarket joint.

O and as for being an ass hat, :flipoff2:

[larboc@hotmail.com]

Found a borgeson matching that description for 49+ship at Day motorsports. Might go that route, or through one of the guys that posted here. I posted in the gen section to see if anybody knew what one could be pulled from. If it turns out that anything salvage will need to be welded, I will probably just buy the borgeson or FR so I can stop spending so much time on this.

troutbum, how much do you want for the used one?

[Bill usn-1]

troutbum, how much do you want for the used one?
:shaking: :rolleyes: :shaking:
I hope this is not referring to a used rag joint!

[ChiScouter]

This is my first major off-road project. I have done research on everthing before I start a new aspect of the truck, you will have to excuse me if I miss somthing. I am also a college student so money is a bit tight, however I do not have a problem spending on things that matter. I am not really sure what you mean, but I have read and re-read all the posts where people are trying to help me and have gotten SOOO much information on this project I can't thank everyone enough. I never would have been able to do this project with out P4x4 and BB and their FAQ's. I have probably brought up some pretty stupid ideas and I appreciate you guys checking me on them, even if it does go overboard a bit but hey, thats pirate. On most of these suggestions, with the exception of a 14 bolt, I have acted on the suggestions and really apprieciate you guys giveing the time to give them.

btw, I really have to thank Scouty and slipscomb here latley for the help on the ps conversion on this right hand drive scout, slipscomb said that itted be close with the v8 but it would fit, and sure enough, with about 1/8 to spare. Never would have thought that just by looking.

I have everything out now and I am not going to end up needing to extend the shaft. Just need a 3/4 to 13/16 36 spline u-joint. Hopefully I can find something salvage but it is so hot here when I'm not at work that it may be worth just ordering an aftermarket joint.

O and as for being an ass hat, :flipoff2:


Has anyone given you a link to the binderbulletin? I think they would be a lot more nurturing than you will find here, and you really need a lot of spoon feeding

[RustoleumWhite]

Actually there is a whole thread in the BB, used to be in "perinal topics" but could proabably be found with a search that has almost all the PN's and specs for FR and Borgson joints as associated with a Scout II. Also give shaft sizes and spline counts for the different steering parts...... not that that would be any help.

[Bill usn-1]

PRODUCT: 30312
U-Joint - 1in. - 48 Spline x 3/4in. - 36 Spline.
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/cat_images/30303.jpg

Greased needle bearing with Teflon seal.
Forged 1045 steel.
Broached spline for better fit.
Heat treated forgings.
Made specifically for racing, these U-joints are heat treated and contain forged yokes and cross members, screw locked needle bearings, and sealed grease rings. The splined U-joints feature a set screw and locknut. These are the best U-joints you can buy.


Part: 30312 Price: $55.75


PRODUCT: 30313
U-Joint - 1in. DD spline x 3/4in. 36 spline (GM Column)


Part: 30313 Price: $55.75

[Harvester of Sorrow]

Well i will say the scout steering columne is 1" 48 spline and thoes are $85
The 13/16 36 spline is $85 as well. Basically all the sizes in that style are $85
Yes that means the 3/4 30 spline is also $85:cool2:

Now if you buy the 2 joint kit from BCB they are $80 each joint and $6 for the shaft that goes between them.

So total kit price is $166 plus shipping and handeling:grinpimp: :D

I can ship these out by the next day.
John


PLEASE DELETE>>>>>THIS IS SPAM


:laughing: :laughing:

[larboc@hotmail.com]

Found flaming river and borgeson needle joints at Jegs the correct size. Flaming river is nickle plated only 2 dollars more than the borgenson. Both are the 13/16-36 X 3/4-36 size that I need. For now I am sticking with the stock coloum side u-joint with a new spider in it, then using either the flaming river or borgeson needle joint for the intermidete to box connection. Also going to add a heat sheild to keep some of the heat of the right manifold off the joint.

Only decisin now is FR or Borgeson. and yes, I was aware of the differences beetween pin and block and needle joints.

Since the prices are almost the same, it boils down to which is the best joint, seems like they are both quality parts,

Leaning toward the Flaming river right now. 898-FR1723 $64.99 at jegs.

It is odd that summit has a joint listed under the same part number but they say it has 30 splines on the 3/4 side.

Bill, I can't find that AFCO has a u-joint for my application. I think I should be ok keeping my upper stock u-joint and would rather not weld on a smooth bore.

Barring some "go to hell Flaming River" comment I'll order it tonight from Jegs. One click gets it quick.

Thank's all for your help.

[The Fleckster]

PLEASE DELETE>>>>>THIS IS SPAM
:laughing: :laughing:

Done for you

[RustoleumWhite]

I'd go with the FR joint. Nickle plateing, doesn't rust. Mine still looks new after 4-5 years now.


Nothing wrong with a heat sheild, but not required IMO. If your upper joint is the rebuildable kind (u-joint style, sounds like yours is) put the $6 new joint in it and call it good. The older style upper joints are a quality piece and if in good shape, no need to replace.

[larboc@hotmail.com]

Just ordered the flamin river joint. Thanks agian. on to the next problem.