Ok Damien we did a deal in the FALL OF 04 where in part of a trade for a front 60 you were to send me a set of your deluxe rocksliders. At the time I made it known that I wasn't in a major hurry for them, what I meant was I was willing to wait until you were already making some up for others for mine to be added on figuring it would be cheaper for you to run of several sets at once. As time went by we talked a couple of times about some other trades, but nothing ever materialized. Whenever we pm'd I always tried to remind you about the sliders without leaning on you. Starting in April of this year I stepped up the pressure, I pm'd you a few times and you didn't reply. I also left a few posts on this board that were subtle reminders that I was anxious to get them. I finally posted on the BB in a thread where someone else was busting your balls for poor service and you gave me your personal cell. We talked twice once on a friday when you said to call me back on Monday because thats when you would be starting on them. I was kind of confused as to why we needed to talk again, but called on Monday. I had hoped you would ask me for my shipping address, but you didn't. THAT WAS 2 WEEKS AGO TODAY. I called your cell twice today, the first time I left a message, and the second time I just hung up when the vm came on. Ive had a belly full of this, its close to 2 years since I sent you the axle and nothing back from you. I don't want to call you or pm you or anything else over this anymore. You can send me a check for the retail price of your fancy sliders, send me the sliders, or send me back the 60 and I will refund you the money that you sent me for it in less than 18 months. No more phone calls, pm's or anything else. I need to move on from this. Its shitty that I have to come out here and say this, but you haven't fulfilled your end of the deal and others should be aware of this who may be tempted to deal with you in the future. I am pm'ing you my address just after posting this. I will post up again when I have something in my hands here to say he has completed the deal

Don't hold your breath, dude.... you'll suffocate long before Damien gets off his ass to do anything. That just seems to be his style. His "business" practices are questionable to say the least... from my perspective. I've only dealt with him once before when I bought a cage kit from a couple years ago. Super shitty service, charged my card immediately but took a couple months to get the cage to me. Then it was fucked up with a couple wrong pieces which Damien did send me replacements. When I got those, one of them was notched 1/2" off center. He blames it on his help.... ok fine, but it's still his company. I wrote it off to a shitty vendor and told myself I wouldn't buy from him again.

Last year after the 'Con trip (which he donated a cage to be given away), we decided that instead of one of us on the trip getting the prize, we would donate it to a local kid who just lost his father in an accident. Out of nowhere, Damien pops up and says he'll send me a set of sliders since I would have won the prize (according to the guy in charge of that on the 'Con run). I thought, cool.... I give him the another chance (since money wasn't involved). We PM'd a few times and I even agreed to let him forego the powdercoating and send them to me in bare steel. Have I ever seen them, nope.... now he claims that he doesn't have time to make bumpers and sliders and the such.

Am I out anything, no. I have no beef there at all..... it's more of the principle of it. He claims to not have any time.... but I have seen an ass load of posts on here lately of all the work he has done on his rig... even has his hired help working on his rig. It doesn't take a genious to realize that he's been spending a LOT of time on his personal shit while his customers are waiting for their goods. I got nothing against building his own rig, but when it negatively affects his customers, then something isn't right. Get your priorities right!

When I ordered a family cage and sliders for my 800B they arrived in short order . . . no problems at all.

Don't know what the story is, but FWIW I had no problems with him.

I have dealt with him one time and there was no problem. There are 2 sides to every story and I know how it is to run your own business.

I have dealt with him one time and there was no problem. There are 2 sides to every story and I know how it is to run your own business.


It has been over two months since I paid for mine. I am not in a real rush but what bugs me is the money CLEARED two months ago. If he had held off to charge that would be much better. Anyway, he remings me of marlin when I was into the yota stuff. Business side sucks but skills are good. I can't say for sure he's got skills but I just welded up family cage for my S2 from him and it couldn't have been easier really..

To clear things up here I have two scouts and ordered two cages ;)

Yeah, he did the same thing to me Brandon. I ordered the cage and he charged the card immediately. I called him two weeks later to see when it was going to ship and he said something the effect of "I'm getting ready to order the materials for it". I was like... WTF... you charge my card two weeks ago and you don't even have the materials yet?!?!? If I knew then what I know now, I would have cancelled the order and disputed the charges.

I am waiting on a part at the moment. BUT
I HAVE FAITH

I beleive in ya dude, if ya have to spend a few nights in the doghouse to stay in the shop late to handle your biz, then, well then as the rednecks say. Gitrdone.
:flipoff2:
Still have time. Just. Handle it.

I had planned on ordering a few items from D&C, but after reading this and a few other posts, I think I'm going to have to spend my money elsewhere.

It sucks because from what I've seen they are capable of building a great product and the pricing seems good, but time is money and some stuff just isn't worth the wait.

I know there are 2 sides to every story and a bunch of people will defend this vendor to the "death" and others will say "you don't know what it's like to have your own business." I may have never had my own business but I do know about customer service. Until I start seeing a metric shit-ton of satisfied D&C customers coming out of the woodwork, I'll just take my money elsewhere.

He has had a lot going on in his personal life with the move and what not. All I know is he has bent over backward for us the last couple of comp years. He sent us a 4 to 1 D300 just to use because there was a back order at Tera and we had to have a T-case to compete. My high steer arms for project 2 were here in a week and I recieved them the same day my card cleared. My gears I ordered were here in a week. What I'm getting at is I have never had trouble with him.

One thing I can say though...Its almost standard practice, in the fab world, to have half the money up front when you have a cage built for you. Then you pay the rest when the rigs done. I'm not sure how it works in this situation though.

I am not unhappy with his service, he just needs to keep the customer updated a bit better is all..

I don't like the charge it up front but I understand there is material to be bought..

ALRIGHT! so he is alittle slow. He is a small vendor and I am sure he has a ton of orders.

But you have to admit he does really good work, he has worked on all sorts of projects, he has a bad-ass website, he even has a board on the BB showing new projects and fielding any questions customers and non customer might have.

Personally, i think he has a problem being the nice guy. maybe taking on too much.

If you've never met the guy you'll never meet a cooler guy. He is always out at RMIR handing out cold drinks on a 90+ day for free. He's cool to talk to and never has an attitude.

I have a lot of his products on my truck, and i am greatful that we have a quality vendor. I just hope this can all be resolved cause I would hate to loose this vendor.

I am with Chiscouter and mechanos here. I have had the same kind of experience's with Damian. It was hard to get any info from him after ordering and the kicker to me was the rear bumper tire/high lift did not fit my high lift..??
I called him on it and he told me it was my high lift?? WTF??
He told me they made different castings and that's why it does not fit...??!!! It is a 60" standard high lift, they all have the same casting for the holes..it is the lifting mechanism. I would have had more respect if he told me "we may have made a mistake", but he told me my jack was the wrong size....
I am not wanting to bash Damian, but I have heard & read this stuff before. It seems there are plenty of IH'rs that will defend him to the death saying there are two sides ect...yada yada yada..BS.
I really like having a scout. but that does not mean i will defend a vendor just because he fab's Scout stuff.
nuf said...

I have been buying stuff from him for about five years. I havent had any problems with his quality of work, but I have had problems with timely orders. If someone tells me "its going out by friday", then I don't expect to have to wait for 3-9 weeks for it to show up. I don't doubt he's a cool dude, but if you want my business then you have to stand behind your word. I have to work my ass off just to be able to save three or four hundred dollars. The last thing I want is to save it, order something I am really wanting, and wait, wait, wait. It would be better if I heard, I am behind, wont be shipped till??? I have taken my business to jeff. Everything I have got from him was 1-2 days from the order.

As for the loyal supporters, most I presume are his friends that LIVE IN COLORADO. If I could just drive up to the shop and say WTF I think things would be different.

Like I said before, all his work for me has been good, and I am sure he is a cool dude, but I can't hang with the wait.

It has been over two months since I paid for mine. I am not in a real rush but what bugs me is the money CLEARED two months ago. If he had held off to charge that would be much better. Anyway, he remings me of marlin when I was into the yota stuff. Business side sucks but skills are good. I can't say for sure he's got skills but I just welded up family cage for my S2 from him and it couldn't have been easier really..

To clear things up here I have two scouts and ordered two cages ;)


Brandon,

You can blame me for *some* of the time frame there. It's been taking me a while to get the measurements on my cage back to him so he can duplicate it for yours...I finally got the rear spreader measurments to him today after he asked me last week sometime :(

-Gary

been awhile since i have posted in the IH section...but i used to post frequently and i am on all the time. I have noticed that it seems like big names in the IH crowd or ones that will have more of an advertisement, happen to get their stuff faster and b/c they have a good rep., their word is trusted. And some of the smaller crowd, stuff gets done when it can get done. I know that have a fab business is not easy, and if your a normal size fab business its still not easy...but you kind of have to stick to it just being that, and your personal toys always have to take a backseat. The shops that are huge, are typically the only ones that really get to have their pesonal toys and have them fast. My opinion is thats where D&C is mixed up...to have a good rep, less time for personal rig or a rep. that is luke warm, and lots of time for other stuff <----

just my thought, i don't have any ill feelings for D&C...but wouldn't spend money there.

Brandon,

You can blame me for *some* of the time frame there. It's been taking me a while to get the measurements on my cage back to him so he can duplicate it for yours...I finally got the rear spreader measurments to him today after he asked me last week sometime :(

-Gary

i hope it will be a good fit....would be much better measuring it in person, especially since he's the one that will be bending.

Brandon,

You can blame me for *some* of the time frame there. It's been taking me a while to get the measurements on my cage back to him so he can duplicate it for yours...I finally got the rear spreader measurments to him today after he asked me last week sometime :(

-Gary


And I appreciate you doing that :)

It's not the time that gets me it's that I paid and at this point if I wanted to dispute it I don't think I could since you only have so much time..

i hope it will be a good fit....

me too :flipoff2:

BTW it wasn't just my idea to use that cage but I really do like it and told Damian I'd be ok with notching it myself (even if it is with a grinder)

http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54120

I have had good luck with D, however I have never ordered anything big like a cage. I think he is a good guy , but it sounds like he is a new buisness owner trying to figure it all out. As for Mechanos and the free sliders, that sounds like some bullshit. I hope D makes this right with all of you..........

He's getting hit up over at binderbulletin as well

http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56086

I dunno man, I am not a business man either so I can't tell you what to do but maybe jack up the prices (did I just say that??) and get some help?

I like the waiting list idea myself, don't charge till ya get to the person on the list though. I'm not saying don't charge till you deliver but don't charge till you start working on that specific project.

Snoop I haven't personally done any business with you and I respect that you have hung your own shingle. I understanding not wanting to respond to a post here on Pirate where it could quickly become a public spectacle.

But you need to publicly acknowledge ChiScout, you are not an Ostrich.

Acting as if this post does not existing tells a lot of you business practices, especially when you felt it OK to respond to the post by Sully regarding his vendor dealings.

Jdjanda. This situation has very little in common with the Sully/Comer situation ~ I've answered ChiScouter as many times as I've gotten messages from him. Mind you that I don't answer the phone a ton but when I get them, I answer. HES TALKED TO ME where Sully hasn't talked to Comer. And most importantly, he's getting what he ordered.

That being said, everyone knows I'm not an Ostrich, I've rarely left any post like this unanswered (just one comes to mind that I didn't have a chance to answer to). Why didn't I answer it? I didn't know it existed. I scan the forum and have made a few quick replies yesterday but haven't visited since this post was started. Frankly, I've been in the shop virtually nonstop since getting back from RMIHR and have cleared the machine 3 times while only being able to call a hand full of people back.

Yes, I got a message from ChiScout and sent him a PM as I knew I didn't have time to call him back. In fact I PM'd him twice this week already (once yesterday, once today before I knew this post was here) as we are getting ready to ship his sliders. If that's not acceptable, so be it. I also saw the BB posts and they were both handled. I'm not going to make dumb-:eek: excuses for not building Mech's and ChiScout sliders sooner. So if you want a front-page story, check your newspapers.

When ChiScout made the trade with me he told me he wasn't in a hurry. I put the order in the freezer till he needed them. Personally I didn't even know his scout was driving yet and didn't think it mattered until he contacted me a couple weeks ago. I said I'd get them done ASAP. ASAP wasn't as fast as I'd like. I tried to get the sliders done before RMIHR but that didn't happen, then I got a call from a customer who needed to pick up his scout last week (only time he had a tow-rig and trailer) and that took a bunch of time. Then I have 2 more scouts come in from OOS that needed towing around to different places. Now that they are situated, we got to finishing up the order, today we're putting the final touches on the sliders and they are getting ready for shipment. Better late than never I guess.

But that's not the point here is it. This thread confirms a couple thigns that have been pointed out more than once before; my failure to deliver some products in a timely fashion. As I've said it before, Bumpers and Sliders are my worst enemy. They take a bit and I'm not good at getting them done ~ that's why they are no longer on my site. Yes, I discontinued them.

They may come back in time but frankly they're gone for the simple reason that this crap has got to stop. If I'm not man enough to 'Get it done' then I need to pick myself up front the last train and get the :eek: off the tracks. Judging by my lack of performance on these bumpers orders, the only possible conclusion is that I'm not man enough so I moved out of that business. Coinsidentally, Chi and Mech will have two of the last 3 slider sets. May they beat them to a pulp ~ or try to ~ and brag they got some of the last sets while they do.

Maybe IHCustoms or some other good company will pick up the slack, and I certainly hope they do.

I ordered a cage from him a couple of weeks before christmas in 04. He rushed them so I would get it for christmas (a gift to me). the front bars were notched wrong, but he had a set out BEFORE I got the cage.

He claims to not have any time.... but I have seen an ass load of posts on here lately of all the work he has done on his rig... even has his hired help working on his rig. It doesn't take a genious to realize that he's been spending a LOT of time on his personal shit while his customers are waiting for their goods. I got nothing against building his own rig, but when it negatively affects his customers, then something isn't right. Get your priorities right!


Edit: you know I had a pretty good post going but I just erased it. Frankly, what I'm going to say is:

If finishing my junk after two years offends you. So be it.

If wheeling a grand total of 11 hours in the past two weeks ~ or I should say ~ two years means that I've got my priorities messed up ~ You're 100% right.

If spending a few hours on Rusty here and there over the past few months is the wrong thing to do, I have to agree. If I had half a brain, I would have concentrated my efforts on it and got everything done in a week or two.

If not answering my phone and turning away business in order to live up to commitments I already have is a bad thing, I'm guilty.

If... no... I'll stop there, I don't think I have much more to say.

I got your PM and just tried to call you a few minutes ago. The message said your voice mailbox was full. Sent you a PM.

And no.... I am by no means Mr. Freakin' Perfect. Hell, I spent 4 years building my rig so you're not the only one that undergone a marathon build. Shoot... 2 years is short in comparison to many of the builds on this board.

I think I would have gone with version 1..... had a lot more soul.

Version 1? Before I took the body off or when I tubed it and was going with 37s?

Version 1? Before I took the body off or when I tubed it and was going with 37s?
No... version 1 of your post... before you edited it. :D

Oh, my angry post. Ya, I let that one slip. ;)

shit give the man a brake doing what he does is like building 15 scouts,jeeps ect. all at once,I orderd a gage and some brake stuff from him and had problems with both orders( shipping ) and blame him for all of it and it turned out that one was not his fault.Bottom line is if you dont want to wait for it build it yourself,if you cant, learn how(anyone can build anything it just take time and alot of cash).true if he says you will have it by fri and it dont show thats is his fuilt,but like it was said he is too nice off a guy and wants to make it by that time said but shits happens.Hell if you needed it that bad you should of had it already.I will still buy from d and c cause the workmanship is awesome and the stuff works. even if i had to wait two months,in the end it was worth it( the only thing i dont like is the charges on the card right away half is alright but not the whole thing and also that a sticker would be cool with every order over a certain dollar amount) just a ideal? :shaking:

I will most likely order from him again. I ordered a 6 point roll cage. It fits extremely well except for the driver side dash part wasnnt bend quite enough to fit as tight as the rest. But it was pretty decent. Seems like he is doing a decent job for a 1 man operation with all those builds going

I'll order from Damian again.

Snoopy, can you send me a 'limited edition' for my sliders if you're not making them any more?

:D

They work great by the way!

I'm not sticking up for anyone but I have had nothing but good service and great work.
It sucks your not making bumpers anymore I was just going to buy one.

Ok its time for me to wrap this up. I received the sliders a few weeks ago. I wanted to reoprt when I received them, but the legs were not sent with them. At the time the sliders were sent snoopy let me know that the legs didn't go with them. I figured the legs would follow within a few days but they were not shipped until I asked for a tracking number for the legs. They arrived yesterday. Some things need to be brought up. The sliders were not power coated as they were listed to be on his website. Usually the UPS guy leaves my stuff on my back porch which has a roof over it. These were left on my front stoop and had been rained on before I was able to retrieve them. Being as they were bare steel they now have a nice thin coat of rust over most of their surface:( Now I have to pay to get them cleaned and powercoated, an added insult to injury as far as I am concerned. I really thought that as soon as I started this thread this snoopy was going to get this whole thing resolved within a few days to save face, I am really disappointed that it took another month for this to be completed as today is one day short of a month since I started this thread. If anyone wants to come out of the weeds with their feel good stories, keep in mind this transaction started a year and a half ago.

I got the rest of my cage this week, well no feet but I won't go there

If anyone wants to come out of the weeds with their feel good stories, keep in mind this transaction started a year and a half ago.

I feel good about spending my money somewhere else, does that count?

I feel good about spending my money somewhere else, does that count?
Yes that counts ;) :laughing:

Helmer, as for the sliders not being powdercoated, I sent them exactly the way you told me too. You decided not to have the legs welded on there, fine, I sent them without. Where UPS puts them and the weather your particular section of the country is experiencing in is not my concern or fault.

Sorry

Yes that counts ;) :laughing:

Helmer, as for the sliders not being powdercoated, I sent them exactly the way you told me too. You decided not to have the legs welded on there, fine, I sent them without. Where UPS puts them and the weather your particular section of the country is experiencing in is not my concern or fault.

Sorry


After I started this thread a month ago I pm'd you just afterward. We kept the same pm going back and forth throughout the last month. If you wish I can post it and everyone can read through line by line and decide for themselves just what each one of us has said to each other for the past month. Ill state it again, I expected the sliders to be powercoated. There was never a word spoken or typed that said otherwise. As I also told you in those pm's I could also dispute much if not most of what you said in your first post in this thread. You want to keep this up just say so and Ill start by posting up the pm's.





You are right about 1 thing, my weather and where UPS leaves a package is not your concern or fault.

I've got nothing to hide. Here ya go... Drag this out as long as you'd like.
1Z7T570T0341977124

It should have gone out with the sliders, but appears as though it didn't, I have tube here so I'll send legs out today.

DStill no legs, do you have a tracking number?


First, I'm sorry I didn't make and send them to you back when we did the deal. That was my mistake and would have solved this problem before it started.

I know I need get things rollin' on delivery. Its always been my problem and there's no excuse for it. I'm not a start up anymore and need to get on the ball.

Dispite the coating, I hope you put the sliders to good use. Again, I'm sorry for the delay, should have never happened.

DI never said I was going to rhino line them or anything like that:rolleyes: I expected them to be powercoated and I would sand away as necessary to weld on the legs. Paint just doesn't hold up here on the undercarrige with the roadsalt.

Damian your first post in the thread had a ton of BS in it, I was really tempted to dispute most of it as I have pm records of this thing going all the way back, and I understand the admin can go back and see which threads you read and when. My phone bill will also show that you didn't return calls. I don't want to embarass you further or hurt your buisiness so unless you post any more BS I will let it go.

Its not up to me to tell you how to run your business, but all the innocent white lies you tell are catching up with you. Ive had a number of people contact me over this and no one can believe among other things that you need to buy materials every time you get an order. My buddy mike www.completeoffroad.com started off for around 5 years working out of a 2 car garage in the city. He first had to get the 2 cars out every time ne needed to fab. He makes a bunch of bronco cages, and now wrangler. He always makes a few at a time and keeps at least one of every style in stock and ready to ship. He has compact jigs that store flat on the wall when not in use. Im guessing that when I finally get there to bend up my cage he will make jigs and start putting scout cages on ebay and his site. I know that a small 1 man shop can stock and ship in short order for your sake I hope you can find a way before its too late.

I know it may sound like im busting your balls, maybe its just the blunt way that I speak, but if I was, I would be saying this in public as well as picking your first post to pieces. I was always very interested in your rear link setup as trying to design my own is beyond my means, but at this point I would be very unlikely to get it.

When I called you on that friday if you told me 2 weeks I would have shut up and waited. You gave me the impression that you were fabbing them on Monday and we both know that wasn't true. People aren't as dumb as you are trusting them to be.


Sliders already sent last night, no coating, weren't you goign to rhinoline them or something? Legs didn't make the UPS truck, they are going today. All the tracking numbers (all three packages) should be connected in UPS's system.

DIf there was still a question about welding the legs on this morning did you have time to get it powercoated?

UPS:1Z7T570T0342521908

Check later tonight or tomorrow.Send the legs

Done, did you want me to send the leg materials or do you have your own.If you haven't welded the legs on go ahead and leave them off


Apperantly it did. Actually I had to take care of a few things with RMIHR and delivering a scout.

No, I'm not asking you to pay for shipping, I didn't remember what we set up. Since I trust you to tell me, I asked.It took you 2 weeks to weld them up?

Nope I paid the shipping on the 60, it went prepaid forward air.

18 inch legs welded on

After all this time and BS I can't believe you are asking me to pay the shipping

None of this would have happened if you had called me back last week when I called, today when I called, if you would have answered my pm's, or just boned up and done them 18 months ago when you should have.


Just finished welding up the bodies of those this evening.

Two things:
First, you wanted us to weld on legs that will make the sliders stick out 18" total right?

Second, and correct me if I'm wrong, but are you paying for shipping? I seem to remember having paid for the D60, but again, I'm a scatter brain so correct me if I'm wrong.ChiScouter's addy


You didn't say not to powdercoat them, but if I had and you welded the legs on afterwards, the coating in a 3"+ radius around the welds would have been completely destroyed the coating either way. I saved $40 not coating them, if you want that, I'll send you a check.

Honest mistake, white lies, outright lies, and blatant deception ~ take your pick. As you can see, I asked you when I didn't remember what we agreed to0 and I did what I needed to accomidate you as quickly as I could have.

Like I said, I'm done with this, make it a 'Sully' post drag it out and on if you'd like. At this point, I've done what I could do, and I can't do anything more. Just confirms what I'm doing by not building these things anymore.

One thing remains, that gives me some satisfaction; after all is said and done, after your done draggin me through the mud, my sliders will live up to the D and C reputation for hard-core products ~ they will protect your scout and its body from everything you throw at them, and after your done cursin' me for this whole mess, you'll be amung the few that are proud to run my stuff.

...One thing remains, that gives me some satisfaction; after all is said and done, after your done draggin me through the mud, my sliders will live up to the D and C reputation for hard-core products ~ they will protect your scout and its body from everything you throw at them, and after your done cursin' me for this whole mess, you'll be amung the few that are proud to run my stuff.
Holy shit.... I think I'm going to puke!!! Are you really that freakin' full of yourself?? Yes they do have a good look to them, but come on. You took several pieces of virtually indestructible steel, welded them together and are proud of the fact that you made something indestructible?:shaking:

Thanks for saving me the time to post the pm's but I would have not posted any personal inforfmation, mine or yours on a forum with 70K members:(

I started this thread on the 24th, and on the 25th you posted that you had replied to all my phone calls and pm's. That was a lie as shown in the pm's you posted more than once I said that this thread would never have happened if you had returned my calls or pm's. In my view it made it look like we had been in constant contact and the lines of communication had always been open which was not the truth. I felt that post made it look like I jumped the gun by starting this thread and that wasn't true. I had reminded you several times ofer the past 18 months that I would like to get them, and in APRIL I pm'd you and started increasing the pressure but nothing got done until I started this thread and it still took a month for you to make good in a fashon on the deal.

On the 25th in your post you also said that you were about done with the sliders and were getting ready to ship them. At that time we had not even discussed leaving the legs off. No way they were getting ready to ship if the legs were not yet welded and they had not been to the powercoaters.

When I asked you how the powercoating was done so quickly after resolving the leg issue you replied that you thought I was going to rhino line them. You just made that up, there was no conversation about that all. I would have been happy if you had at least said something about making things square about the missing powercoating. You didn't offer that until yesterday. Since you now made the offer Ill take you up on it. It looks like you still have my address so Ill just wait for the check.

Since you felt the need to brag on your sliders after all of this, having the top plate not welded to the square tubing on the backside as well has having the ends open is a death sentence to those living in the rust/salt belt. It is an invitation to have them rust inside and out.

In a email last night you accused me of trying to destroy you on the boards. That is far from the truth. I started this thread reluctantly. I had run out of paticence after waiting close to 2 years for this deal to be completed. You defend yourself well on the boards, but the proof is in the pudding and it still took a month to get this deal completed in a sense after I started this thread. You threw yourself in this mud, no dragging was necessary.

This thread make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

:laughing: Ya :rolleyes:, and we all saw how well YOUR sliders held up to ONE run on the Con. Apearantly just sticking a couple pieces of 'indestructable' metal together is far from what I do. :shaking: :laughing:
They held up just fine.... I dropped the rig on them numerous times, I dragged them, scraped them beat the fuckn' piss out of them and the most they dent was dent some. .120 wall tube is far from indestructible, but it's what I had to work with in the mad dash to get done last year. If I had stuck some 3/16 or 1/4 wall sq. on there... there would just be some scratches and that's about it. I'm not delussional enough to think that a 4x4 is going to look like it did when it started after coming off a pretty intense trail for 3 days.

Its all the hell flying around. FIRE has a way of being warm ~ not sure about the fuzzy part though.
No, it's all your f'ing bullshit that keeps it steamy around here. If you'd stop spewing it all over, the temps would probably go down considerably.

I don't think you posted my address with malace and there is nothing in that email that I see that makes it sound like I was in any way pissed that you posted the pm's. It is another example of how little attention you pay to details. When you cool off read my email from last night again and your response. You read a lot more into that email than was said or infered.

I don't think you deliberatly set out to screw me or lie to me, but you play fast and loose with the truth. You don't want to lose the debate, but you lost it as soon as you posted on the 25th that you had returned all my calls and answered my pm's.

I just wanted the deal to be done between us, that was the reason for this thread. You turned it into a circus with the misleading responses you put on this board and the time it took for you to get things done.

From the standpoint of the onlooker I’d have to say that the battle of words has been entertaining, if not for the shipment of the products it would have been totally pointless, except to detract from you business.

As a potential customer of D&C I would have hoped this would have been handled in a more professional manner. While you have your staunch supporters (many of them report slow shipment and products made inaccurately), you’ve also got those who are undecided (like myself). Seeing these responses from a vendor makes me glad it I have not done any business with you, and reaffirms that I won’t in the future unless you change your business practices.

There seems to be one major point that you’ve failed to address in all the excuses ~ it’s illegal to accept payment if you can not ship the product in a timely manner (I think we’d all agree that this has not been timely). All the excuses don’t mean a thing if you’ve got the customers money in your hands and you can’t deliver the product.

It would have been far easier to have said “I was wrong, I’ll send the product and refund your money”, but instead you have dragged this thing out, not what I’d expect from a business professional.

I work in an industry where customer service is the only thing that keeps us in business and if we treated our customers this way we’d be out of business fast, really fast. It would have cost your business a lot less in the long run to respond in an adult manner and take care of this immediately, now you have no idea how much revenue you’ve lost (from people like me).

Damien I don’t know you and have nothing against you. I hope that you succeed and prosper in business, but the averages are against you with over 85% of all small businesses failing. I think that you’re going down the road traveled by most small business owners if you can’t put the customer first.

And about your posts, it’s not a competition to see who’s right, it’s a business. So quite attempting to “Be right” and “run your business”.

Don’t let your pride get between you and the customers’ money. :cool2:

There seems to be one major point that you’ve failed to address in all the excuses ~ it’s illegal to accept payment if you can not ship the product in a timely manner (I think we’d all agree that this has not been timely). All the excuses don’t mean a thing if you’ve got the customers money in your hands and you can’t deliver the product.



I think that is about the bottom line right there. I told him I was in no rush and I actually pushed him to get my stuff even though I didn't need it yet only because the money was gone on my end so I was worried that I wouldn't have a leg to stand on a year down the road if somehow I was screwed.

My three experiences are a set of shackles shipped without... shackles (just bolts), and two roll cages shipped one part at a time missing some parts. I'm not sure if he does that to stall or is just too busy to keep things straight. In the end at this point I have what I paid for and actually more (he is sending me extra plates) so all is well. I haven't gotten around to installing my second cage but I know he did some not so normal stuff on it so if it doesn't fit right I'm not going to ship it back or anything like that. I guess even if I was charged ahead like I was if I knew a date that I would have the parts by then I would have been ok. It's the not knowing that makes ya wonder if you are about to be bent over..

Anyway, if I was local I'd go to Damian in a heartbeat. I come from the yota stuff and Marlin is the same way. I only deal with him in person and have had nothing but great experiences but those that don't.. don't..

I think the old saying about 'If you want it done right, you better do it your self' comes to mind. The way you guys are going round an round about stupid sliders is hilarious. Dont give me the I dont have time excuse either. I work more than full time plus have a wife plus work on my dads farm etc... and I still have time to fab on the side. Do it your self next time and you'll be more satisfied in the end. I promise it.

If it was that big of a deal Chi, you should have just asked for your money back and been done with it, IMO.

last week i called damien to ask him some questions about a possible scout purchase...

not only did he call me back in a timely manner, he called me back on a saturday.

he answered every stupid question i had about the scout im looking at and gave me a rundown of his companies offerings...all in all, he spent about 20mins on the phone with me, something that i have not exprerienced with other "more timely companies"...

if he does in fact make mistakes with his order, say the roll cage issue, the guy who does my fabrication would be more that capable of fixing a poorly cut fishmouth or rebend a certain length...not really an issue in my book.

the other omissions of parts, seem to have been remiedied rather quickly.

just my .02 cents.

I unsubscribed to this thread earlier since I thought all that should have been said, was said. Appearantly we are playing a 'all that can be said' game here.

Ok. First, no money was exchanged with ChiScouter or he would have got the product a year and a half ago ~ or whenever we did the bartering ~ oh, and I was the one that sent money, not him.

Second, although this hasn't been pointed out, ChiScouter got his sliders ~ albeit without legs as he requested ~ within 2 weeks of his asking for them.

Third, ChiScouter didn't need the sliders before due to the fact that his scout is inoperable. That is one reason I didn't put him at the front of the line ~ that and he said he didn't mind waiting. AS SOON AS HE ASKED, the job was initiated. YES, I finish other things before I did the sliders ~ hence the two weeks ~ but all this BS about I took money and didn't provide service trash talk is just that.

Fourth, Brandon ~ which is the other guy complaining about me taking a bit to get him his cage ~ asked me to recreate a custom cage built for Gary Billings. BEFORE I BUILT IT, I made sure I hade HARD COPY dimensions from gary to make sure Brandon GOT WHAT HE DIDN"T PAY FOR.

What, you say? He didn't pay for it? NO, and YES. Brandon ordered a standard 800 cage, then when he saw Gary's custom cage ~ one that cost MUCH more than his ordered cage ~ he wanted that ~ which I gave him at NO EXTRA CHARGE. So I'm getting screwed by the guy that got his parts in two weeks, and I'm getting screwed by the guy that got his parts as quickly as I could make them while giving him a HECK of a discount. He actually offered to pay more for the custom stuff but I declined. Glad to see you saw that side of this story. :rolleyes:

Do you want me to own up and say sorry to Brandon for not sending out the two front spreaders I had right away? Like I should be ashamed that I made sure the spreaders were as correct as I could possibly have made. Fat chance folks. Aint going to happen. Yes Brandon was caused to wait, yes he may be pissed about that, but how much more pissed would he be if I were to have sent things out without checking them? How much more pissed would he be when he learned that the first set were incorrect and would have been useless but the second set ~ the ones which were actually sent ~ were right?

LEts rehash MEchs' complaint shall we ~ He beat the piss out of his sliders on the Rubi last year, due to his great tallent ~ he was able to capture the 'most carnage' award with won him the gift cert for the sliders. To his credit, or to the credit of the event organizers, he gave that up 'for and in behalf of' a young scouter who lost his dad. That product was given and recieved in timely manner to Rueben who was gracous enough to accept and install the products given to the kid (from many vendors). My only mistake was offering an additional giveaway item to Mech ~ on top of the cage to the kid. He accepted and I took my time getting them to him. My mistake. My bad. Won't happen again. PROMISE!

Now, I'm going to ask something. What do you guys want to hear from me? A heartfelt appology? Do you want me to admit to mistakes and do everything in my power to redeem myself?

If so, read this thread again, I already recognized that I made a mistake [I make tons of mistakes. That's why I'm looking for a partner to help with things I obviously havent been able to fix.] For goodness sake people, look through the thread, if you want me to take credit ~ or own up ~ to the mistakes with Chi and Brandon and Mech's stuff, freakin READ THE THREAD. Its already done, I've done what I can to make good on things already ~ 2/3's of which I NEVER accepted money for, and the last 1/3 I purposefully DIDN'T take additional money for.

So, what I do I need to do? Get on the ground and beg for you people? If you think that, you've got another thing comming. I'm done, I said it before, I'm spent on this. If I'm still at fault, then I'm just going to let it be at that ~ knowing that I've delivered everyone's product, paid for or not. If that doesn't satify you, then...... Fine.

I case the rest of you people didn't catch it. There is a post where I turned off my symathetic side and said 'screw it' and started having fun. I think its obviouse which post it was. Think people, you have a head and eyes. Read, you want me to do what I've already done. Now shut up and move on. :idea:

...and you think I'm being a whiny :crybaby:

I think a few posts ago someone mentioned you seem to have some priorities mixed up. You really should have listened to him.
I had most of these same problems with you and have given up hope of you ever owning up to them. I still have to have my fawking hi-lift attachments redone because you told me my jack was messed up.
I never received the handles for my roll cage, the pads came so late i had already had some others made. Every time a poster says something negative you always have a good excuse then drop some BS statement like "you will be proud to run my stuff" BS
And who ever said just fab it your self FU That is not the point. If you BUY it, he (Damien) should be more responsible to his customers period.
I know he has enough fawking cheerleaders that will stick up for him but there is no excuse.....:mad3: :shaking:
http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/Bubba/150065.jpg
I had to bend both of my hi-lift mounts to get my hi lift on, i will be getting them fixed finally..700.00 bumper and i had to tweak it to do what it was supposed to do...?
Yeah, I am real proud to be running that.......

Re: Sliders

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We'll get those moving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiScouter
Hey I think I may be ready for those sliders you owe me sometime within the near future, do you have a run of them coming up soon, I talked to mechanos and it sounds like he is ready for his also


Sorry for the half assed copy and paste job above.

The pm message "well get those moving" was received 5-3-06 and I never heard from him again

I sent him another PM on 6-27-06 asking if the sliders were done. He never replied to that PM.

I spoke to snoopy twice on the phone. He pm'd me his cell number after I posted on a thread on the BB where another customer was complaining about a bad transaction. The last time we talked was 2 weeks before this thread was initiated. At that time he told me he was starting on the sliders. I never heard from him again and he never returned calls. Then I started this thread.

So the sliders themselves actually arrived a month after he told me he was building them. The legs arrived 2 weeks past that meaning 6 weeks after he said they were in construction.

I asked for them in Late April as supported by my pm's and again as can be supported by pm's in late June.

I hinted that I was anxious a few times also in posts on this board. the hints were designed to be subtle reminders that I wanted the sliders without starting this thread, but they didn't work.

I have no reason to believe that I would now have the sliders if this thread had not been started.

In my first post that started this thread I said that the sliders were part of a trade for a front 60, so they were not some kind of a gift or charity thing.

I did make it clear when we first did the deal that I was not in a hurry, that was almost 2 years ago. I figured Damian made them in batches and I was content to wait until the next batch. If my Scout is running or not, or even If I don't have one is immaterial to all of this. He neglected me when I was quiet, when I whispered for them, and when I asked for them. Nothing happened until I yelled in a room full of others and embarrased you. You have admitted making mistakes, but you keep talking smack in an effort for damage control. When the BS pertains to me I will continue to call you out.

I am really weary of this, but as long as things are being said that are not true I will clarify the facts,

woa dude, don't play that game..

Maybe you forgot but YOU were the one looking for people to test the cage..

This was OVER two months and at THAT TIME I had allready paid $$

http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54120

As for custom cage I don't know for sure but I thought the difference was that middle hoop which only has TWO bends on the one you sent me compared to your standard one so if anything I saved you work. BTW, I am not pissed - and the only issue I have is I was out money with nothing to show. I'd be ok if to this day I didn't have the cage if I hadn't been charged.


If anyone is interested; What will happen is that I'll send my standard cage but with Gary's rear spreaders. The front and main hoop will fit together fine and the rear spreaders *should* fit together fine, but may need trimmed. My goal is to get feedback on how much trimming (if any) is needed. Pictures will be requested as well so we can report on the cage.

Let me know if you or anyone reading this is interested.

Snoopy...you need to just shut the fuck up dude...that is my opinion for no reason other than your pompass speeches make you seem like an idiot. That is all I ask of you.

Your priorities are fucked...your business practices are fucked...You have orders that people are waiting for and you spend your "weekends" working on your project rig...yet peoples orders still aren't filled.

I have never spent money with you because in my opinion you don't deserve it. Plus I am the kind of person that Binderbound described...I would rather do it myself...THAT IS HOW YOU STARTED YOUR BUSINESS...:rolleyes: I remember when you started up your company...you knew less than most...have you forgotten that? Now you are continuing the soapbox speeches...???

All I ask of you is too shut the fuck up...keep learning like everyone else...and put out orders as soon as you take them...

So we have less and less of these fucking threads.

Snoopy...you need to just shut the fuck up dude...that is my opinion for no reason other than your pompass speeches make you seem like an idiot. That is all I ask of you.

Your priorities are fucked...your business practices are fucked...You have orders that people are waiting for and you spend your "weekends" working on your project rig...yet peoples orders still aren't filled.

I have never spent money with you because in my opinion you don't deserve it. Plus I am the kind of person that Binderbound described...I would rather do it myself...THAT IS HOW YOU STARTED YOUR BUSINESS...:rolleyes: I remember when you started up your company...you knew less than most...have you forgotten that? Now you are continuing the soapbox speeches...???

All I ask of you is too shut the fuck up...keep learning like everyone else...and put out orders as soon as you take them...

So we have less and less of these fucking threads.

AMEN
and I'm a Fuckin' Newbie fo crissake.

Re: Sliders

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my first post that started this thread I said that the sliders were part of a trade for a front 60, so they were not some kind of a gift or charity thing.




how much cash did he give you in addition to the sliders?

Alright, enough is enough. Chi, Brandon, et al. I let my evil side take over a bit today and I shouldn't have. I don't know if you all remember the post I put up where I talked about Jim Carey, but I recounted when he was new and people were not accustom to his brand of comedy, he'd often tank hard. Instead of letting it go and walking off the stage, he'd actually purposefully do worse and worse until he really tanked.

After that intro, I basically taunted a few of you guys to see if you would take the bate. Since those initial comments and finalizing with the last post I made, this thread turned into a real slugfest with me on the receiving end. Heck, I think one of the people reading this post hacked my server to take D and C offline ~ since it mysteriously became 'unavailable'. I thought to myself how wild it is that we can allow ourselves to be so worked up on the internet ~ and, at first I thought it was kinda funny.

But then, I was just talking to my wife and told her about it and she brought up how I've change a bit from yesteryear to today. Needless to say that hit home, to say the leas. So I came down here and deleted my posts ~ every one after that first 'Jim Carey' post. They were uncalled for and although I knew I shouldn't have, I allowed myself to get sucked in.

I'm quite surprised at the change I'm made over the past year, the past few months in particular. I've become more intolerant, angry and over-all selfish and, as many stated on this post, arrogant.

...not to quit in mid-thought, but I'm going to stop there. I've got some PM's to write before I go to bed. Then I'll see what I can do about getting back to my old self. Good night.

[QUOTE=Snoopy]

After that intro, I basically taunted a few of you guys to see if you would take the bate. Since those initial comments and finalizing with the last post I made, this thread turned into a real slugfest with me on the receiving end. Heck, I think one of the people reading this post hacked my server to take D and C offline ~ since it mysteriously became 'unavailable'. I thought to myself how wild it is that we can allow ourselves to be so worked up on the internet ~ and, at first I thought it was kinda funny.


QUOTE]

hmmmm, thats interesting, damien.

interesting cuz you told me on the phone when we talked, that you knew specifically why your website wasn't working...:confused:

you said that your "website designer changed formats without understanding that the script in one format would be different and un-readable by the new format." and that you were "working with him to correct his error"

you told me this cuz you referred me, specifically to "project 1" and to "rusty" to help me decide/design my scout project, but then realized it wasn't working at the time

Am i to understand now that you are accusing someone on this board of going in and doing this?


just fyi, i don't even have a scout, yet. still thinking about it. so i could care less at this point, in reality, whether or not someone buys from you. though im having second thoughts, myself.

regards
brian

I'm quite surprised at the change I'm made over the past year, the past few months in particular. I've become more intolerant, angry and over-all selfish and, as many stated on this post, arrogant.



Welcome to the stress of owning a business. It is hell sometimes.

Do those shitty projects you have been pushing aside that customers have paid for so you can get that off your back. They aren't going to go away. The time you spent on here could have been used to complete SOMETHING.

From now on...don't take the money unless you want to do the work soon...ask me how I know? I know because my shitty projects get pushed aside and this crap here happens. Just do the work and get it over with.

Rip off the bandaid already and stop pussy-footing around with idle chatter.

I think you just have gotten off center and need to rededicate your resolve.....or get ready to go out of business and watch your life spin round the drain.....see it all the time. Stress is a killer.

how much cash did he give you in addition to the sliders?


$136,476.69 but it was a real clean 60 :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

So whats your point?:shaking:

Do those shitty projects you have been pushing aside that customers have paid for so you can get that off your back. They aren't going to go away. The time you spent on here could have been used to complete SOMETHING.

From now on...don't take the money unless you want to do the work soon...ask me how I know? I know because my shitty projects get pushed aside and this crap here happens. Just do the work and get it over with.

Rip off the bandaid already and stop pussy-footing around with idle chatter.



Exactly.

Snoopy, don't you realize that it's obvious to those reading this thread what really transpired? When someone is dropping friendly hints in threads, sending PM's, and leaving phone messages it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that they want their goods. ChiScouter patiently waited for over a year for his sliders and you thank him by posting all this B.S.?

Why didn't you just say that you procrastinated, you're sincerely sorry, and then follow-up by sending out the parts within a few days along with a few extra goodies to make up for ChiScouter's trouble? I have no doubt that ChiScouter would have posted a follow-up thread commending you for making everything right. People would have understood that.

Instead, you made up lame, transparent excuses that dragged this thread out and took your own sweet time shipping out the parts with the wrong finish. Ironically, your verbal damage control backfired and more and more disgruntled customers have had time to jump in. Now you have someone calling your integrity into question saying you lied about your website being hacked. If you keep this up eventually you will have people dogging you every time your business is mentioned on the internet. We've seen this all before.

Bottomline. You are good with prose, but that only goes so far with this crowd. Actions speak louder than words. Straighten out this mess with ChiScouter (words and product) and move on. You're better than this :)

$136,476.69 but it was a real clean 60 :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

So whats your point?:shaking:


just curious. no need to get all defensive.

I let my evil side take over a bit today and I shouldn't have. I don't know if you all remember the post I put up where I talked about Jim Carey, but I recounted when he was new and people were not accustom to his brand of comedy, he'd often tank hard.

As a business owner, who is playing to the customers you can't afford to be arrogant, condescending, provoking, or as you call it "Let your evil side take over". Why any business owner would intentionally provoke his customers is beyond me, but as I said in my earlier post you are losing customers.


And you ain't Jim Carey, but you have tanked hard :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Snoopy]

After that intro, I basically taunted a few of you guys to see if you would take the bate. Since those initial comments and finalizing with the last post I made, this thread turned into a real slugfest with me on the receiving end. Heck, I think one of the people reading this post hacked my server to take D and C offline ~ since it mysteriously became 'unavailable'. I thought to myself how wild it is that we can allow ourselves to be so worked up on the internet ~ and, at first I thought it was kinda funny.


QUOTE]

hmmmm, thats interesting, damien.

interesting cuz you told me on the phone when we talked, that you knew specifically why your website wasn't working...:confused:

you said that your "website designer changed formats without understanding that the script in one format would be different and un-readable by the new format." and that you were "working with him to correct his error"

you told me this cuz you referred me, specifically to "project 1" and to "rusty" to help me decide/design my scout project, but then realized it wasn't working at the time

Am i to understand now that you are accusing someone on this board of going in and doing this?


just fyi, i don't even have a scout, yet. still thinking about it. so i could care less at this point, in reality, whether or not someone buys from you. though im having second thoughts, myself.

regards
brian

Actually I can back this up. The first time the server was down it was because of the aforementioned reasons, however, the other night, I believe it was last night, the server was down again. This time for unknown reasons. I was happy to see that it was up again today.

I guess I should pipe in with my two cents here, just to give a different prospective of this whole post. I have been thinking about different directions I want to take my scout in, and every time I have an idea I go to D and C's site to look over parts and prices. After reading and rereading this thread I am still of the opinion that D and C will be where I get my parts from. Unless of course I can find the time to get my rig from MA to CO. The reason for this is pretty simple Damien is a good person and he makes high quality products. I was of this opinion before, and reading this thread only confirms this, but let me explain how.

I also work in a business that has a very high demand and not enough man power to meet it. We constantly find ourselves behind and struggling to meet the deadlines and schedules originally set. This is almost always because we set up these deadlines for when we want to get it done. We know the people are in a rush so we do our best to accommodate them. This isn't because we are afraid of loosing the work (there is far too much of it floating around to worry about) its because we want to help the people who are in need. This usually serves as our achilles heel because there are just too many people who need their stuff ASAP.

In the end, Damien has apologized for the problems that originally began this thread and stated that he was going to try to change. I don't know him, and I don't know any of you, but I do know that being under a lot of stress when you own a small business causes you to make mistakes. No one is perfect and every once in a while someone calls you on it. But life goes on. Everything else in this thread, after Damien's apology just seems like an angry mob out for blood. What kind of sacrifice are you looking for?
The only think worth taking away from this thread is that everyone here is human, we all make mistakes. That shouldn't dissuade anyone from buying from D and C, if anything you should just make your plans and order earlier, because it is a high demand business and if you want the best, or one of the best you are going to have to wait in line. In the end, if you know your project isn't going to start for 3 months what does it matter if you where told 3 weeks and had to wait? The best thing you can do in any situation that requires fabrication or a lot of time on the part of the company being employed is order early and try your best to stay on top of it.

I tell my clients to call and leave messages because its the only way for them not to get lost in the cracks. Sound like a bad business practice, maybe it is, but its something that happens when you (in my case) are a four man company and your getting over 30 calls a day. And on another note, we try not to answer our phones either because usually it serves as a black hole. We'd spend all our time answering questions and talking and be even further behind.

[QUOTE=kodiak1232003]

Actually I can back this up. The first time the server was down it was because of the aforementioned reasons, however, the other night, I believe it was last night, the server was down again. This time for unknown reasons. I was happy to see that it was up again today.

I guess I should pipe in with my two cents here, just to give a different prospective of this whole post. I have been thinking about different directions I want to take my scout in, and every time I have an idea I go to D and C's site to look over parts and prices. After reading and rereading this thread I am still of the opinion that D and C will be where I get my parts from. Unless of course I can find the time to get my rig from MA to CO. The reason for this is pretty simple Damien is a good person and he makes high quality products. I was of this opinion before, and reading this thread only confirms this, but let me explain how.

I also work in a business that has a very high demand and not enough man power to meet it. We constantly find ourselves behind and struggling to meet the deadlines and schedules originally set. This is almost always because we set up these deadlines for when we want to get it done. We know the people are in a rush so we do our best to accommodate them. This isn't because we are afraid of loosing the work (there is far too much of it floating around to worry about) its because we want to help the people who are in need. This usually serves as our achilles heel because there are just too many people who need their stuff ASAP.

In the end, Damien has apologized for the problems that originally began this thread and stated that he was going to try to change. I don't know him, and I don't know any of you, but I do know that being under a lot of stress when you own a small business causes you to make mistakes. No one is perfect and every once in a while someone calls you on it. But life goes on. Everything else in this thread, after Damien's apology just seems like an angry mob out for blood. What kind of sacrifice are you looking for?
The only think worth taking away from this thread is that everyone here is human, we all make mistakes. That shouldn't dissuade anyone from buying from D and C, if anything you should just make your plans and order earlier, because it is a high demand business and if you want the best, or one of the best you are going to have to wait in line. In the end, if you know your project isn't going to start for 3 months what does it matter if you where told 3 weeks and had to wait? The best thing you can do in any situation that requires fabrication or a lot of time on the part of the company being employed is order early and try your best to stay on top of it.

I tell my clients to call and leave messages because its the only way for them not to get lost in the cracks. Sound like a bad business practice, maybe it is, but its something that happens when you (in my case) are a four man company and your getting over 30 calls a day. And on another note, we try not to answer our phones either because usually it serves as a black hole. We'd spend all our time answering questions and talking and be even further behind.

well if thats true, then i fully apoligize for questioning his integrity. it was never posted that the server was down twice, so i assumed he meant the previous failure.

like i said in my post earlier in this thread, he took time to field my dumb(basic) questions about scouts and his inventory in general. seemed like a genuinely nice guy, but it's just too much that so many of his customers are dissatisfied.

it sucks when so much of a particular make is supported by one company and it can't keep up...:(

I tell my clients to call and leave messages because its the only way for them not to get lost in the cracks. Sound like a bad business practice, maybe it is, but its something that happens when you (in my case) are a four man company and your getting over 30 calls a day. And on another note, we try not to answer our phones either because usually it serves as a black hole. We'd spend all our time answering questions and talking and be even further behind.


my company is a company of 25 and we get 250-300 calls a day...i don't know what crack it is you speak of, sorry...raise your prices $10.00 per unit and hire a secretary, give her a spec. sheet and a list of F.A.Q's...i mean c'mon...do i need to buy y'all the dummies guide to business?:D :)

The reason for this is pretty simple Damien is a good person and he makes high quality products. ***

I am still of the opinion that D and C will be where I get my parts from

I don't know him, and I don't know any of you,***.

it sucks when so much of a particular make is supported by one company and it can't keep up...:(

So if I understand you correctly, you don't know him and have never purchased any products from him? :shaking:

If you think D&C is the only game in town you need to look around.

Ok what fawk turd messed with DandC site. I like reading those project buildups. Reading those got me all fired up to build my own Scout.

I can see both points of view. People want there stuff once money has been paid. On custom stuff tell them when your over booked and if you think it might be ready in 4 weeks, tell folks 7 weeks. If they want to wait great, and if you get it done in 3 even better. It's hard to turn work down, I know.

But I also see where people are posting items just to bitch and wine.:flipoff2:

As for the sliders. Hinded sight being 20/20. Damien don't spend what you don't have.

So if I understand you correctly, you don't know him and have never purchased any products from him? :shaking:

If you think D&C is the only game in town you need to look around.

I know he isn't the only guy around, thats not my point. I'm still trying to figure out what everyone else's point is. Are you just trying to drag his name through the mud and give him a bad rep so he can't do business. Are you trying to destroy his business and cause him and his family to suffer because it took a long time to get a product from him.

Regardless of how long he took, it wasn't I'm malice. this is something I can hardly say for some of these other posts. In the end it was a mistake, which he has apologized for. He made a bad judgment call in the ways he responded on the forum here, for which he also apologized. to be honest, I have a hard time faulting the guy because when I am under a lot of stress and then I seem to be getting attacked by people who are trying to discredit me I would take a lot of offense as well, and probably lash out.

At least he apologized and stated that he was going to try to change. what more can you ask of him?

my company is a company of 25 and we get 250-300 calls a day...i don't know what crack it is you speak of, sorry...raise your prices $10.00 per unit and hire a secretary, give her a spec. sheet and a list of F.A.Q's...i mean c'mon...do i need to buy y'all the dummies guide to business?:D :)

Actually that is almost the same advice I gave, however, and this is probably one of the reasons I can see Damien's side of this. My father is the person who makes those decisions, and he is just too nice. He wants to make everyone happy and by trying to do so he ends up getting pulled in a thousand different directions every time someone calls.

But, there is a big difference between a company of 25 and a company of 4. if someone takes the day off in my business it almost completely halts business. there is always something for the other three to do, but it is still crippling none the less. I'm not trying to make an excuse for my company or Damien, I know my company has some issues it needs to iron out. but there are times when things other than business screw up efficiency.

[QUOTE=kodiak1232003]

Actually I can back this up. The first time the server was down it was because of the aforementioned reasons, however, the other night, I believe it was last night, the server was down again. This time for unknown reasons. I was happy to see that it was up again today.

I guess I should pipe in with my two cents here, just to give a different prospective of this whole post. I have been thinking about different directions I want to take my scout in, and every time I have an idea I go to D and C's site to look over parts and prices. After reading and rereading this thread I am still of the opinion that D and C will be where I get my parts from. Unless of course I can find the time to get my rig from MA to CO. The reason for this is pretty simple Damien is a good person and he makes high quality products. I was of this opinion before, and reading this thread only confirms this, but let me explain how.

I also work in a business that has a very high demand and not enough man power to meet it. We constantly find ourselves behind and struggling to meet the deadlines and schedules originally set. This is almost always because we set up these deadlines for when we want to get it done. We know the people are in a rush so we do our best to accommodate them. This isn't because we are afraid of loosing the work (there is far too much of it floating around to worry about) its because we want to help the people who are in need. This usually serves as our achilles heel because there are just too many people who need their stuff ASAP.

In the end, Damien has apologized for the problems that originally began this thread and stated that he was going to try to change. I don't know him, and I don't know any of you, but I do know that being under a lot of stress when you own a small business causes you to make mistakes. No one is perfect and every once in a while someone calls you on it. But life goes on. Everything else in this thread, after Damien's apology just seems like an angry mob out for blood. What kind of sacrifice are you looking for?
The only think worth taking away from this thread is that everyone here is human, we all make mistakes. That shouldn't dissuade anyone from buying from D and C, if anything you should just make your plans and order earlier, because it is a high demand business and if you want the best, or one of the best you are going to have to wait in line. In the end, if you know your project isn't going to start for 3 months what does it matter if you where told 3 weeks and had to wait? The best thing you can do in any situation that requires fabrication or a lot of time on the part of the company being employed is order early and try your best to stay on top of it.

I tell my clients to call and leave messages because its the only way for them not to get lost in the cracks. Sound like a bad business practice, maybe it is, but its something that happens when you (in my case) are a four man company and your getting over 30 calls a day. And on another note, we try not to answer our phones either because usually it serves as a black hole. We'd spend all our time answering questions and talking and be even further behind.


So you just joined this board yesterday, and all of your posts are all in this thread. You have no posting history on this board, and this is how you choose to start things off. Are we supposed to believe that you are a wheeler who just discovered this board and instead of spending a few hours or days surfing the board and absorbing the tech you decide to jump into this clusterfawk of a thread and give your 25 cents on this whole controversy?:rolleyes: You did join this board for the tech......right? How about starting up your own thread, tell us about yourself, your scout, what you have done to it, what you are going to do with it. Then go over to chit chat and post some boobie pics of your wife/girlfriend:flipoff2:

Maybe at that point you will have something more than ABSOLUTE ZERO CREDIBILITY when you jump into a discussion like this.

I'm still trying to figure out what everyone else's point is.

I'll make it short, you don't take money without giving a product in a timely manner - period. There is NO excuse for it - I don't care what the excuse is, you simply refund the money if you can't give the product in a timely manner. That is the bottom line.

I second ChiScouter, well put..

I know he isn't the only guy around, thats not my point. I'm still trying to figure out what everyone else's point is.
Then read you Dumbass and STFU.

Ok guys I'm looking for one place where I can buy a new Cage, Bumpers, a DUI distributor, a new dash panel, and reverse shackle kit.

Any know reputable vendor where I can buy all this stuff from?

After reading and rereading this thread I am still of the opinion that D and C will be where I get my parts from. Unless of course I can find the time to get my rig from MA to CO. The reason for this is pretty simple Damien is a good person and he makes high quality products. I was of this opinion before, and reading this thread only confirms this, but let me explain how.

In the end, Damien has apologized for the problems that originally began this thread and stated that he was going to try to change. I don't know him, and I don't know any of you, but I do know that being under a lot of stress when you own a small business causes you to make mistakes. No one is perfect and every once in a while someone calls you on it. But life goes on. Everything else in this thread, after Damien's apology just seems like an angry mob out for blood. What kind of sacrifice are you looking for?
The only think worth taking away from this thread is that everyone here is human, we all make mistakes. That shouldn't dissuade anyone from buying from D and C, if anything you should just make your plans and order earlier, because it is a high demand business and if you want the best, or one of the best you are going to have to wait in line. In the end, if you know your project isn't going to start for 3 months what does it matter if you where told 3 weeks and had to wait? The best thing you can do in any situation that requires fabrication or a lot of time on the part of the company being employed is order early and try your best to stay on top of it.

I tell my clients to call and leave messages because its the only way for them not to get lost in the cracks. Sound like a bad business practice, maybe it is, but its something that happens when you (in my case) are a four man company and your getting over 30 calls a day. And on another note, we try not to answer our phones either because usually it serves as a black hole. We'd spend all our time answering questions and talking and be even further behind.


So is this personality number 2 or 5 Mr. Snoopy...?

I am fully expecting FLECKSTER to post an ad in this forum within the afternoon...

I'll make it short, you don't take money without giving a product in a timely manner - period. There is NO excuse for it - I don't care what the excuse is, you simply refund the money if you can't give the product in a timely manner. That is the bottom line.

I second ChiScouter, well put..

X2 This goes for everybody out there including myself and the business I run........

[QUOTE=Ki Areese....BLAH BLAH.[/QUOTE]


WHO THE FAWK ARE YOU KI?

Your FIRST post(s) and you think we give a crap what you think? Everyone's an expert on the internet..... :shaking:

WHO ARE YOU....Mister no city; no posts; know nothing??.....

These postings smell ill of something foul afoot.


I call B.S. on you.

OH YEAH.....welcome Newbie....if you have a scout hang around...if no fawk off.

[QUOTE=kodiak1232003]

Actually I can back this up. The first time the server was down it was because of the aforementioned reasons, however, the other night, I believe it was last night, the server was down again. This time for unknown reasons. I was happy to see that it was up again today.

I guess I should pipe in with my two cents here, just to give a different prospective of this whole post. I have been thinking about different directions I want to take my scout in, and every time I have an idea I go to D and C's site to look over parts and prices. After reading and rereading this thread I am still of the opinion that D and C will be where I get my parts from. Unless of course I can find the time to get my rig from MA to CO. The reason for this is pretty simple Damien is a good person and he makes high quality products. I was of this opinion before, and reading this thread only confirms this, but let me explain how.

I also work in a business that has a very high demand and not enough man power to meet it. We constantly find ourselves behind and struggling to meet the deadlines and schedules originally set. This is almost always because we set up these deadlines for when we want to get it done. We know the people are in a rush so we do our best to accommodate them. This isn't because we are afraid of loosing the work (there is far too much of it floating around to worry about) its because we want to help the people who are in need. This usually serves as our achilles heel because there are just too many people who need their stuff ASAP.

In the end, Damien has apologized for the problems that originally began this thread and stated that he was going to try to change. I don't know him, and I don't know any of you, but I do know that being under a lot of stress when you own a small business causes you to make mistakes. No one is perfect and every once in a while someone calls you on it. But life goes on. Everything else in this thread, after Damien's apology just seems like an angry mob out for blood. What kind of sacrifice are you looking for?
The only think worth taking away from this thread is that everyone here is human, we all make mistakes. That shouldn't dissuade anyone from buying from D and C, if anything you should just make your plans and order earlier, because it is a high demand business and if you want the best, or one of the best you are going to have to wait in line. In the end, if you know your project isn't going to start for 3 months what does it matter if you where told 3 weeks and had to wait? The best thing you can do in any situation that requires fabrication or a lot of time on the part of the company being employed is order early and try your best to stay on top of it.

I tell my clients to call and leave messages because its the only way for them not to get lost in the cracks. Sound like a bad business practice, maybe it is, but its something that happens when you (in my case) are a four man company and your getting over 30 calls a day. And on another note, we try not to answer our phones either because usually it serves as a black hole. We'd spend all our time answering questions and talking and be even further behind.


As long as we are telling 'woe is me stories'... I think that if you are going to operate your own business, you had better be ready to make it YOUR LIFE. My dad is a 1 man show, has been for 35 years, and I DO NOT kid when i say that he works 11 - 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. It is messed up, he doesn't have insurance, cause it is too expensive if he wants to make any money. Hire more people you say? Sure, but again, people cost money, and the price that he would have to put on his products would push him right out of the game. In the end, he is doing it the only way he can, by living it.

This means next to no family time, next to know personal time, next to no work out time, no hobbies. It means work. You open a business to work, plain and simple. This is why I don't have my own business, because I love to come home after my day, wash my hands of it, and work on my other hobbies. I have watched the man work his life away, and realized that it is honorable, and I am always surprised at how nothing has ever 'slipped thru the cracks'. If that is happening, WORK HARDER, its your JOB. Why be half assed about anything? All that does it piss people off.

Owning your own business is simply an extension of your own personality, of who you are. If your business is half assed, then no one will ever respect you as a person, because they realize that the thing you should love the most, you don't put 100% into, and if you can't even give that 100%, how are you with the other things in life that aren't your #1 priority?

And you know what? If you sell a product, or service, that people want SO badly they are beating down your doors, then you are 10 steps ahead of the game. Now all you have to do is be honest. My dad is 1 man. When some new client calls, and asks for something in an unreasonable time, and there are other orders ahead of it, he tells them that. If they want it badly enough, and if they are a person that deserves your business and is good to deal with, they will wait.

At my work we sell multi-MILLION dollar packages, and even though some customers get quite pissed when we tell them lead times, they will usually buy it anyway, with the stipulation that we try and improve on the lead time. Or, with expidite fees. Someone needs something in a hurry? Sure, 10% more, see how quickly that makes people say 'ok, i guess i can wait'. And they will.

I can't say that I think D&C makes 'super hard core bad ass' products, I think people can make a pretty website and everyone believe what they do/say is law. I do realize the need for vendors, and small business, but if you love to be with your family, or ride bikes, or work on your own projects more than you love running a business, don't get into business for yourself.

wow, you all get really pissed off at people just for trying to show a different side of the story. I don't recall insulting any of you or being that rude. I simply posted my point of view. I know you (those who have posted your wonderful remarks against me) don't care what I think. My point of view is expressed to help those who maybe on the fence about the situation. I personally don't care if you have a problem with that.

Like I said, I don't know you and I don't know Damian, and I have been to this board before sparingly. In fact I was looking up tech stuff when I came across this thread. The reason I decided to post here is because I felt I had a different point of view than many of the others, although I know it had gotten somewhat out of hand I thought we were still in the point counter point phase.. as opposed to the name calling 5 year old phase. You can feel free to attack me, I'll get a good laugh at how much time you waste bitching at me instead of working on your IH or wheeling it.

I haven't posted here before because I'm not much for the forum scene, I lurk here and there or try to find answers to any questions I might have, but all in all I don't really spend that much time dicking around the computer. This thread is a bit of an exception to that, but hey its always fun to see people get so annoyed just because you think of things differently.

Do I have any creditability? does anyone on the internet? I don't really care if I'm recognized in this little corner of the net, nor do I care if I'm recognized anywhere else. I'm new to the scout world, I'm new to wrenching in general. Its a hobby for me, just as wheeling will be once I get my scout ready. In the end I do it for me, not your defensive opinions.

oh, and I'm sure the admin here can verify that I am not Damian if thats what you were so subtly trying to insinuate. I use the same name on other forums so feel free to look it up.

This thread is ridiculous. I'm not going to stick up for anybody I don't know but this thread would not in any way make me decide not to do business with D & c. Nobody here really knows what happened besides Damian and each individual. Every one of these deals seem to be unique such as the giveaway sliders and the trade for a 60 or something? The only problem I see is Damian was tring to be to accommodating. He seems to have learned his lesson and his no longer going to try to do more than he can.