Bad quality pics, good shots.

This is the obstacle, Lovehandle.

His aproach to the obstacle (NOTICE his rear tires in each pic, I believe this to be the cause of the roll).

(My brother patoyee in the yellow vest taking pics for AllOffroad.com)

When he hit, you could feel it in the ground. This thing was a ton of fawkin bricks! (Notice rear tires, if you can see them).

He landed and it looked to me he was gonna go over on his roof again. This is just after landing on the back tires. In this pic he has started falling back on tires. He was standing taller, more about to go on his lid just before this. He kinda flopped back down on the tires. Almost a 50-50 chance to me.

Last one I feel bad about taking, but I felt it was important to show my buddies that arent into rackcrawling the dangers of it. THey think it is pretty much a sport for lazy ass rednecks who only tear up piece of shit trucks.

This guy rode up to the event in his very own SEMI! Just him, his mog, and tools and family. Nice way to travel if ya ask me.

I heard some folks he told he would never compete again. I hope not cause that thing was fun to watch!

(NOTE these pics dont do his injury justice, his eyebrow was basically hanging like a fold. Im sure he needed several stiches. He is an orthapedic surgeon though so maybe he did it himself!:D

Did you see the video of that Saturday Night at the Library?

When he hit the last time at the bottom we put it in slow motion. His head snapped back over the top of his seat so hard I thought it was going to snap off. Then when he ricocheted (sp?) back to a normal seated position he wacked his face hard on the bar causing that big gash. I think if his seat backs were taller or his headrests properly adjusted he wouldn't have gotten hurt.

You are right about the rear steer too. In the video you can clearly see he turns the wheel, the rear steers and bites, then the flip.

I never understood why he would want auto rear steer:confused: full time

I agree about the higher seat backs. Also about the auto rear steer. I wouldnt take auto rear steer if someone gave it to me! (Well I would, I would just change it to controlled rear steer:D ).

I'd like to see how much carnage that 'mog took. It landed on it's feet. Hell, he shoulda fired it up and hit that bastard again! :D

Glad they didn't have to care flight 'im out.

I dont think his wife and daughter would have liked another crack at it. They were bawling and hugging him to no end. It was pretty violent as you could see his body flopping all over hell.

My brother will chime in soon Im sure with pics of the carnage. It wasnt to bad. The cage dented on the corner that hit up on the obstacle and I hear he bent a rim. Not to bad.

Is there anything wront with jsut wearing a helmet?

I dont do anything that extreme but if I were I would have a full face helmet.

Hell if I had that type of money and did that type of thing I would just install a"hans device"...nah that would kill visibility and just make rolls more frequent.

DAYUMM!!! :eek: That musta' been suuuum ride! Was he in a 4/5 point harnes? Sounds like it may have been a standard (and loose) lab/shoulder belt the way you said his body was flopping around.

--D

dont do anything that extreme but if I were I would have a full face helmet.


I don't think it would've helped much. The way that his face hit the cage would've been the same even if he had the extra protection across his jaw. It looked as though the impact pushed his helmet back when he hit the cage.

I'm sot sure about his harness/seat setup but it looked like his seat back only came up to his shoulders. If it had a headrest properly adjusted then the neck snap, whip-lash, and stitches could've been avoided.

Take the Toy roll for instance. That guy went 5 times down about 70 feet and was laughing about it with his wife when I asked him if he was OK. He had proper seat height and harness set-up.

That Mog was just too tall. As soon as I saw it at tech I said I thought he'd roll. Huge tires, high clearance axles, and a body that was way up there just put his CG too high. Plus that rear steer on fulltime pushed him over the edge.

He was wearing a helmet. He was NOT wearing a 5 point harness. Your right, that was the cause of it.

This was a competition, helmet required. Dont know why a 5 point wasent.

Ok,I couldnt tell and I didnt know, I am no where near these guys who compete but I do have high back summit seats with headrest and G force racing belts that I keep snug. I run 38.5 and like I said im no rock crawler so i dropped the big heavy rockwell case about 5 inches below the frame...Im currently working on getting some wider axles to replace the old cj's, I have the dana 44 front from a cherokee and now I just need a good rear.

I Think I will be safe for what I do,

Oh yeah im getting the stock cj5 cage modified to be a full cage.

Originally posted by TyTy
Bad quality pics, good shots.


hey TyTy,

can you post the pics again in a a much bigger size?

it would give us a chance to really see what happened. the quality is'nt that bad, it's just that they're too small.

be a sport and let us have it:smokin:

Those pics don't do it justice (as most neve do). The rock portion of love handle was extremely steep and smooth to boot. We snapped a 60 stub shaft and blew the locking hub while gettin' it there:(

it's hard to tell from these small pics, but from what i see and from the angle of the slope it seems the rig should'nt have done the wheely if not because of driver's error or design flaw of the front suspension.

it's either he attacked the ledge VERY agressively and threw his front end violently up or that his front suspension was "closed" because of a short travel to the bumpstops. once the axle hit the bumpstops it pushed the whole front end up and over the top.

i do'nt think it has much to do with the permanent rear steer - the fact is that he rolled straight backwards and not sideways.

Originally posted by TyTy
He was wearing a helmet. He was NOT wearing a 5 point harness. Your right, that was the cause of it.

This was a competition, helmet required. Dont know why a 5 point wasent.

Currently, no rock crawling competition requires a 5 point harness. In fact, ARCA rules make no mention at all of seatbelts. ERoCC rules only state that you must have seatbelts and wear them at all times. Competitors are free to use a 5 point harness if they feel that it will improve their safety.

The other competitor that rolled his Toyota 4.5 times and had no injuries told us he was glad he only had a lap belt because it allowed him to lean into the center of the vehicle and crouch down.

i do'nt think it has much to do with the permanent rear steer - the fact is that he rolled straight backwards and not sideways

Trust me it had everything to do with the fact that he had permanent rear steer.

You can't tell from the pics like you said. I was there competing and will try to describe the obstacle.

The way to get it was the left hand side as it was a little shorter slope with a flat rock in the dirt (at the bottom) for good traction on 1 rear wheel. This allowed you to get the nose of the vehicle up and the front tire up top. the angle was steeper than the pic shows.

Now the base of the large rock was not level but higher on the left hand side than the right. Thus if you climbed the left with your front and bounced right you were loosing ground. From the video that we watched in slow motion at least 10 times, this is what I saw. I also spotted this obstacle so I speak of it's geometry from a first hand view.

The mog attempted a line on the left half of the obstacle. He was spinning tires and started to slide right with his front (top) tires. To combat this he cut his front tires hard left. This resulted in his rear tires AUTOMATICALLY cutting hard right (the opposite of what he would've wanted). When his rear tires cut the went slightly down the obstacle resulting in a hop. he then got off the juice but it was too late and over he went.

The roll was not perfectly end over end but slightly angled at say an 11:00 position when it started.

Simply if he hadn't had the rear steering in the opposite direction of the front, pushing him down the slight sidehill, it wouldn't have happened (IMO of course;) )

a full face helemet would'nt have saved his face from getting hit unless he had a visor.
Hopefully the guy dosen't give up the sport just because of one small injury. Looking at his rig, I'd say he is chest deep and it would be tragic if he quit.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=500659
http://members.shaw.ca/steevil/Images/AG00547_(p).gif

the guy's name is Dan Johnson. If you want to know more about his truck(s) go here http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/johnson/

The Mog has an LT1, it is a SWEET rig. I'm glad no one was hurt too bad.

-Steve

Originally posted by bigdude


Trust me it had everything to do with the fact that he had permanent rear steer.



say Bigdude, would you happen to know what this rig's wheelbase is?

i'm asking because i remember two rolles i personally had with the
frog when it was 115" long and with a high COG.

when i made it 131" long and 101" wide, i gained a much better ledge climbing possibility and a much better stability sideways.

perhaps this rig was too short for that kind of climb?!?!:eek: :eek:

He only said he is retiring from competitive rock crawling. He still plans to trail ride. (at least that is what he told me).
This was an extremely heavy vehicle and when it hit, it hit hard. I wouldn't have wanted to be along for that ride.

Originally posted by steevil
a full face helemet would'nt have saved his face from getting hit unless he had a visor.
Hopefully the guy dosen't give up the sport just because of one small injury. Looking at his rig, I'd say he is chest deep and it would be tragic if he quit.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=500659


I watched that Mog compete in a rock crawling comp on ESPN, couple months back. If I remember he won, it's a nice rig and it would be shame if he leaves the sport.

I can understand, when your got a family to also think you have to weigh the risks.

Joe

Frog off the top of my head I'd say less than 120" and longer than 106".

We were at 106" but a lot lower, no roll.

There was a guy at 120" who was just about as tall and he crawled it fine.

I said before I think he was a little too tall, but in the video you could clearly see how the rear steer fawked him. You're right though, he was too tall maybe, then compund that with a steep grade and rear steering down a side slope while you front tries to climb. Add it all up and el rollo.

Originally posted by bigdude
I said before I think he was a little too tall, but in the video you could clearly see how the rear steer fawked him.

I agree.

I think what lead to the injury, was the fact that he didn't take the enormous mass of his vehicle into consideration while building his cage. If there was an after picture, you could see that the passenger side of the cage failed completely.

Hey Bigdude
Your right that thing was just too tall.I don't think he had what ever type of belt he had tight.All I have is a lap belt.I think it would have been worse on me in a harness because with just a lap belt I could keep my head tucked in.Yes in case no one knows Bigdude he is BIG.Hope I don,t take another roll like that.Oh sorry I was the guy in the red 4Runner

Toytek-

Are you just going to lose the sheet metal on that thing now and tube it:question:

I must say I was said to see the body. That thing was so clean when you had it at the hotel, I must've circled it 4-5 times amazed at how well proportione it was.

Oh well, at least you got away w/o injury to anything but your pride (I know it probably hurt deep down to see you toy like that.

Did anyone get eny good video of you going over? I missed it and I was just wondering how it looked. From what you and the others said your front bounced to the right and it was all down hill (:D) from there.

I know that right side was what we worried about when running that one.

Let us know the reconstruction plans for your rig.

I looked at the unimog before it rolled and was checking out how the cage attached. It actually attached to the stock type unimog like a body. it was mounted w/rubber bushings and sat a good 6-7"s off the top of the frame. The rig was already heavy and this just made its COG even worse. Not saying if he had the cage lower it would have prevented the roll but it would have helped. also it using portals puts its weight higher too,(be it a negligable amount or not) Other then that the rig is a sweet machine.
later
bob

I have a 1024X768 pics of his approach to the obstacle, right as he is going over, and the aftermath. I must admit, having a press-pass allowed me to get real close . . . so close that I kind of quit taking pics for a second to make sure I wasn't ging to be rolled on. But I did get three REALLY good shots that will all be on www.alloffroad.com and my web site, www.patooyee.com on May 1st. Sorry for the wait.

J. J.