This may be a bit biased since it's posted in the ford section, but does anyone have anyone have any specifics?

I'd like to narrow the discussion to ford 302/351w vs cheby 305/350. Just the design of the blocks. Exclude injection systems and carbs, since technically they can be applied to any engine.

So what makes one better than the other?

How do the bore and stroke compare? firing orders?

I believe the cheby engines are somewhat heavier, but have the option of 4 bolt mains.

so the 302 has a 4" x 3" bore and stroke.....

351W?

305?

350?

Input anyone?

I hate to admit but the cheby 350's are nice because every 350 is the same and if you take a water pump off a 1960 350 it will fit a 1977. for the availability of parts alone the 350 is a better option and plus cheby put them in close to every vehicle they made. but this is just my experience.

Bronc_crwlr:question:

351W has 4"bore x 3.5" stroke.

350 chevy has 4" bore x 3.480" stroke.
Chevys have a natural rear sump with the distribor and pump in back, where as the Fords need a long ass pickup tube.


As for Good(ford) vs Bad(chevy), well I leave that up to the philosophers :smokin:


Eric

Ohhh C'mon alpo, you can do better than that....

When it comes to race day, or even putting these things on a dyno, which performs better.....

seems with nearly the same bore and stroke, same compression ratio, the power output should be similar.:flipoff2:

Arent' the cheby's 90* and fords 60* How does that affect HP and torque?

Seems most stats I see, fords put out more power per cubic inch

Originally posted by bronc_crwlr
I hate to admit but the cheby 350's are nice because every 350 is the same and if you take a water pump off a 1960 350 it will fit a 1977. for the availability of parts alone the 350 is a better option and plus cheby put them in close to every vehicle they made. but this is just my experience.

Bronc_crwlr:question:

I think this is a poor arguement. Fords are nearly as interchangeable, and the aftermarket support is nearly as large.

Which would you rather do, change water pumps all day or win races? :flipoff2:

chevy parts arer easier to come by and cheaper. the 305 is shit compared to a 302. i wouldnt reccomend a 305 to anyone. it was a motor chevy made to try and make the 350 better on emissions. it has less power and the same or worse gas mileage as the 350. the 351 and 350 are comparable and equel in my eyes other than my first statement about parts and prices. i have a yj with a 350/350 and i am building a cj with a 351/c6 next. ill let you know which is better as i will build them pretty much the same.

Originally posted by Nobody
Ohhh C'mon alpo, you can do better than that....

When it comes to race day, or even putting these things on a dyno, which performs better.....

seems with nearly the same bore and stroke, same compression ratio, the power output should be similar.:flipoff2:

Arent' the cheby's 90* and fords 60* How does that affect HP and torque?

Seems most stats I see, fords put out more power per cubic inch

I was being lazy :flipoff2: .

BTW, what do you mean ford is 60*, do you mean 60 degree between the bores?
'Cause Ford V-8's are 90 degree just like the Chevy. ( did I just say Ford was like Chevy :eek: )

Ford V-6's are 60 degree.

This little story was related to me by a co-worker that worked on a pit crew for a 'Stock Car' that raced out at Altamont raceway east of Livermore Ca.
The car he helped in the pits with ran a Ford 351W while nearly every one else ran Chevy 350's. He noticed that all of the chevies needed constant work on the engines, be it Valve train work or sometimes total rebuild during the season. The 351W never needed any adjustment or repairs during the season. Just Carb tuning for that days races.

ok, that wasn't tech but so what
:D


Eric

the ford 5.0 possibly has the biggest aftermarket support and following of any engine ever produced. Hell there are entire magazines just dedicated to these motors. The Chevy 350 is a very nice motor as well. I agree, stay away from the 305.

-Steve

Originally posted by Alpo23


I was being lazy :flipoff2: .

BTW, what do you mean ford is 60*, do you mean 60 degree between the bores?
'Cause Ford V-8's are 90 degree just like the Chevy. ( did I just say Ford was like Chevy :eek: )

Ford V-6's are 60 degree.

This little story was related to me by a co-worker that worked on a pit crew for a 'Stock Car' that raced out at Altamont raceway east of Livermore Ca.
The car he helped in the pits with ran a Ford 351W while nearly every one else ran Chevy 350's. He noticed that all of the chevies needed constant work on the engines, be it Valve train work or sometimes total rebuild during the season. The 351W never needed any adjustment or repairs during the season. Just Carb tuning for that days races.

ok, that wasn't tech but so what
:D


Eric

Guess I was mistaken....the chebys seem a lot wider though.

I hate the parts interchange and aftermarket support argument for chebys......has nothing to do with performance. I guess it's so important to the cheby guys cuz their junk is always breaking :nuke:

SBC:

- excellent aftermarket parts availablity
- parts interchangability
- low cost of parts
- stronger bottom end due to block having deeper skirt
- more even fuel mixture due to similar length intake runners

SBF:

- lighter weight
- narrower width (especially 221-302)
- front distributor
- cylinder head, symetrical port configuration has better heat characteristics for the exhaust
- relatively low cost of parts
- decent aftermarket parts availability


things I don't like:

SBC:

rear distributor
heavier weight
siamesed exhaust ports
wider width

SBF:

- symetrical port configuration makes it more difficult to balance fuel mixture on a per cylinder basis.
- shallower skirt makes bottom end of block weaker


Overall both designs have their merrits and their faults. The SBC is an older design and as such is really a throwback to the early days of V8 design(deep skirt, siamesed exhaust ports). The SBF is a more modern design and has a greater potential.

How about the 460 vs the 454? And the winner is?

Going to get a black eye over this one....

I really prefer a GM small block. I've had much better luck with them as far as reliability and I think they are easier to work on. Their major drawback is they wont bolt up to Ford running gear because the Ford stuff always come out on the correct side of the front:flipoff2:

Originally posted by FearMe
Going to get a black eye over this one....



Yup! now go home FearMe

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Screw them both Get an IH 345 :D

Originally posted by clc900
How about the 460 vs the 454? And the winner is?

No comparison. The LS-6 454 makes the 460 run home crying. The 460 was never made to be the "performance" muscle car engine. They left that to the 428, 429. But still, no comparison to the LS-6. I would take a 71 Chevelle LS-6 over any other STOCK car of that same year.

Do you want low end torque, or top end HP?

3" mains on the 351-W limit the high RPM potential, so if you wanted to drag race it, it is a little easier to get big HP numbers out of a 350-Chevy by winding it up. However, those same big mains allow the Windsor motor to stand up to low-rpm lugging a little better, so it might be a better rock crawling motor...and it is lighter to boot.

The chevy has the potential advantage of 4 bolt mains, but girdling the mains on ford accomplishes much of the same benifits.

The 351-C is closer to the SBC than the windsor motor, as the smaller mains let it wind up a little more.

Not sure if it is the guides, or the valve seal design, but it sure seems like I see a lot more chebys blowing blue smoke under high vacuum. Has to increase odds of fouling the plugs in the boonys.

The chev 350 is just the best design ever, they have has the same firing order since they started, for has 3 differnt versions of the 351 with all sorts of parts that don't all bolt up. chev 350's are swapped into everything, no doubt about it chev 350, so many parts, so easy to tune up, there famous. LOL

Originally posted by pitter
The chev 350 is just the best design ever

The small block Chevy is not the best design ever. :rolleyes: It definately is the most widely used and supported design of all time but just because it is popular doesn't make it the best design.