Anyone towing with a charged gasser as opposed to a diesel? Wish you would have just gone with the diesel instead? any "pros" to running the gasser instead?

Talking out of my ass here, but I would suspect a blown/build gasser would tow every bit as good as a built oilburner... but at the SUPER sacrific in fuel.


*I* think the big benny of Diesels over built gassers is the good towing and power, with something approching decent milage. Even a stock injected 454 gets like 5-7 MPG towing hard :(

Also a lot cheaper for a reliable built diesel over gas. IIRC, a blower for a 454 is $3K +. You can do a whole lot to a Cummins for $3K (haven't dealt with d-max or p-strokes personally)

Talking out of my ass here, but I would suspect a blown/build gasser would tow every bit as good as a built oilburner... but at the SUPER sacrific in fuel.


*I* think the big benny of Diesels over built gassers is the good towing and power, with something approching decent milage. Even a stock injected 454 gets like 5-7 MPG towing hard :(

it's all about the torque :D

hp determines how fast you can go, torque determines how much you can bring with you :smokin:

it's all about the torque :D

hp determines how fast you can go, torque determines how much you can bring with you :smokin:then why did you buy a ford. hahahaha

then why did you buy a ford. hahahaha

because dodge didn't make a REAL crew cab in my price range... and if they did... I still wouldn't like the damn truck. :flipoff2:

Was thinking about charging my 454. would like to hear some opinions from people with experience.

If you actually used the added power that the blower would supply, like hauling ass up long grades, you would probably be boiling over every time you got to the top of the hill. Blown gas engines seem to run very hot like that.

If you actually used the added power that the blower would supply, like hauling ass up long grades, you would probably be boiling over every time you got to the top of the hill. Blown gas engines seem to run very hot like that.

They also wear out your engine/tranny faster. I knew a guy with a whipple charger on a 454, he blew the tranny 10,000 miles of charging it. its alot cheaper to work on diesels and get the power but you also pay alot more for a diesel truck over a gasser.

A few thing come to my mind here one 5mpg (gasser) vs. 20mpg(diesel)
long ass lasting engine, 500k before rebuild (CTD) diesel)
rebuild at 150k, if you're lucky (gasser blown)
torque numbers at low rpms gassers can not compete with (obviously diesel)
quick, easy, big power upgrades for not alot (diesel)
$300 for a power programer to get you +20 hp. WTF :confused: (gasser)
same amount for plus 75ish HP 250ish Tq. (diesel)
really there is no comparison, only reason for gasser is cause you A: like the sound B: claim "I want a gasser cause I know how to work on it" or C: just don't understand diesel's superioirty over gas. :flipoff2:

A few thing come to my mind here one 5mpg (gasser) vs. 20mpg(diesel)
long ass lasting engine, 500k before rebuild (CTD) diesel)
rebuild at 150k, if you're lucky (gasser blown)
torque numbers at low rpms gassers can not compete with (obviously diesel)
quick, easy, big power upgrades for not alot (diesel)
$300 for a power programer to get you +20 hp. WTF :confused: (gasser)
same amount for plus 75ish HP 250ish Tq. (diesel)
really there is no comparison, only reason for gasser is cause you A: like the sound B: claim "I want a gasser cause I know how to work on it" or C: just don't understand diesel's superioirty over gas. :flipoff2:
You, and I'll add one. Only real disadvantage of the diesel compared to a ges engine IMO is the redline. Normally with towing its not an issue though.

let m say we put the new smarty in my friends o5 cummins and holy shit what an amazing piece of software. for $650 or so you add 170hp and almost 400tq reliably. Cant do that with a gasser never mind the $$ per horsepower.

bottom line NO 18 wheelers are running blown gas motors. diesel beats gas like rock beats scissor.

My brother had a 97 F-350 Crew Cab with a 460 that he eventually put a Vortech Supercharger on, and that truck was really really fast, but so bad on gas. Maybe he got about 6 mpg's in it towing...He towed a Sanger with it for a few seasons. Granted a boat only weighs about 5K but still...So there are a couple grades around the area here that are somewhat steep, and that thing would tach up to about 4500+ rpm and just suck down gas like nothing else. Way un-efficient! I don't know the exact power number for that thing, but after a few years with the blower the truck starting eating itself apart and he ditched it in '00...this makes me think back to my first tow rig, a 76 F-250 4x4 with a 514 Big Block, C6 NP205 combo, 35's and 4:10's. That thing was sooo horrible on gas! I ran it for about 7 years before I bought by power stroke, and will never go back to gas if I can help it. I dont' care either way what people run, if they want gas thats fine, if they want diesel thats fine. But being around two and owning one big, high powered gas motor, and now running a diesel, there is no comparison in my eyes.

What are you towing? I have owned a blown gasser/blown diesel and towed the same 7k car hauler and buggy with both rigs to Moab on separate ocasions. The gasser was a stock 2001 Ford Lightning. The diesel was a lifted 2000 F250 with full gauges, programmer, exhaust, downpipe and intake (3.73 axle gears and 35's).

Hands down the L outperformed the diesel in every way except fuel economy but I wasn't too shocked because according to the scales the L + Trailer + buggy = the weight of the F250 by itself. Gas mileage for my trip to Moab and back averaged 9.5mpg in the gasser, a hair over 11 for the diesel. Between Phoenix and Moab are a lot of 6 degree grades that go on for miles so the trip up in both rigs is a lot of pedal to the floor hill climbing. With the diesel I was always getting into the upper ETG's about halfway up the hills and would eventually have to drop down to 55-60mph to keep the temps down (speed limit is 75mph). The gasser had no heat issues and would climb the hills as fast as you wanted with lots of pedal to spare. I even left the V10's in the dust :cool2:

I eventually got rid of the L for the F250 so I could pull a toyhauler. The empty 250 got better gas mileage in town, roughly 15-17mpg vs 12-14 in the empty L but it was like going from a sports car to a bread truck. If I ever win the lotto I'll be getting another L for towing on the weekend day trips.

You, and I'll add one. Only real disadvantage of the diesel compared to a ges engine IMO is the redline. Normally with towing its not an issue though.

True, but that only matters if you're tryign to build a race truck. Although I know Gale Banks is/was working on a high reving V8 diesel based off of a Duramax.

True, but that only matters if you're tryign to build a race truck. Although I know Gale Banks is/was working on a high reving V8 diesel based off of a Duramax.

to be honest I wasnt all that impressed with the Duramax that Banks built. It had a lot of custom parts and stuff, but for how much custom stuff I never heard of it actually racing or anything.

it had rods, headwork, low comp pistons, valve springs, cam, twin turbos, custom intake manifold, injectors, custom CP3; I think the other stuff was all stock tho.

then again Im not impressed with anything that comes out of Banks R&D.:laughing: :flipoff2:

what do you consider high revving? There are cummins now going over 6 grand. I know my 454 doesn't like going much over 6000 so sees about the same to me. Granted it was a full on race engine for going the 1/4 mile but the technology is there even for the lower revving diesels.

-ben

I still have my blown gas tow rig I built in the early 80's. It has 450 HP/450 ft lbs torque all from a 355 small block Chevy. It has all the power needed for most towing needs. It will cllimb most all interstate grades with my car trailer in tow at double the legal towing limit and has even pulled my car trailer at 130 MPH! 6000 RPM is handy for top speed runs! When it was built it was a fast truck and even today with all the fast diesels it is still fast. Nicest thing about the truck is I can idle outside at midnight and not disturb the neighbors and I don't blow black smoke when I make full power. Also the engine/truck is light enough to allow jumping/prerun duties without overtaxing the suspension/axles etc. Makes great power and I never have to back out of the throttle unless the engine heats up a bit and starts to ping and fuel is available everywhere.

Jason :)

my stock 91 460 stopped making power after 4300 RPM, how high are you wanting to rev?

I think that is really comes down to personal preferance.

But: If a blown gas engine works so well for towing, then why doesnt the long haul trucker industry use them? As well as the meduim duty trucks(f-450's and up style). Its all about the inline 6 and a turbo(or two) IMO:D .

A blown engine CAN be made to work efficantly so it gets beter mileage than a non-supercharged engine. But it would use more fuel towing a very heavy load(if i rember my schooling on fuel delivery) than a diesel. I dont rember the technical why right now as its 5pm on a friday(beer hour is here!). Anywho: my .2.

A few thing come to my mind here one 5mpg (gasser) vs. 20mpg(diesel)


First of all, let me say that there is no way you're getting 5 MPG with a gasser and 20 MPG with a diesel under the SAME conditions. That's like saying my truck is better than my pal's diesel because I can get 11 towing & he can only get 10 (I'm pulling 5,500lbs, he's towing 20,000 - apples & oranges).

That said, the BENEFIT of a gasser is the up front price. Dropping 3 grand to pump up the gasser's power drastically negates much of that. Now, it could be a good move for someone looking for more power from a truck they already HAVE if they're looking to spend 3k on an upgrade instead of 40k on a new truck. Not a good idea though to go buy a gasser with the intent of adding the blower already in mind.


TEX

Quote:
That said, the BENEFIT of a gasser is the up front price. Dropping 3 grand to pump up the gasser's power drastically negates much of that. Now, it could be a good move for someone looking for more power from a truck they already HAVE if they're looking to spend 3k on an upgrade instead of 40k on a new truck. Not a good idea though to go buy a gasser with the intent of adding the blower already in mind.

Couldnt agree more If I was in the market for a new truck I would say diesel any day but since I already have a gasser I wouldnt mind a supercharger.

My buddy just bought an 03 PSD 6.0. When he received it the mileage computer showed 16 MPG. Since he has owned it he has not seen more than 12 MPG so he must have a lead foot or the other figure was highway only mileage. On a side note when we tow over 30,000 lbs GCWR we see 6 MPG on the computer and blow a lot of black smoke. The computer even defuels all the time at these power levels needed to keep the rig rolling down the highway.

Jason :)

bottom line ... diesel beats gas like rock beats scissor.
Yep

My buddy just bought an 03 PSD 6.0. When he received it the mileage computer showed 16 MPG. Since he has owned it he has not seen more than 12 MPG so he must have a lead foot or the other figure was highway only mileage. On a side note when we tow over 30,000 lbs GCWR we see 6 MPG on the computer and blow a lot of black smoke. The computer even defuels all the time at these power levels needed to keep the rig rolling down the highway.

Jason :)


that is ALL irrelevant because ford 6.0's are the biggest pieces of sh!t. hahahaha

i agree w/ TEX if you already have a gasser adding a blower isn't a large deal but if purchasing a new truck buy diesel

My buddy just bought an 03 PSD 6.0. When he received it the mileage computer showed 16 MPG. Since he has owned it he has not seen more than 12 MPG so he must have a lead foot or the other figure was highway only mileage. On a side note when we tow over 30,000 lbs GCWR we see 6 MPG on the computer and blow a lot of black smoke. The computer even defuels all the time at these power levels needed to keep the rig rolling down the highway.

Jason :)
6.0=:barf: . They are such a bad engine IMO. Go down to the stealership and ask their diesel tech about all the problems they have with those engines. HORRIBLE gas milage was my first experiance with one. My buddy Sam has made his carrer on repairing these engines at a stealership. He makes a BUNCH more money than I do. He keeps bugging me to come work for them as they are overwhelmed with warrenty problems for just this engine alone. Dont even bother calling that "thing" a diesel engine as it is more a incomplete band-aid engine that needs lots of work to make it reliable from what Sam and all the diesel shops have told me.

Keep them inline, or go home trying is what I have been told, and hold true from my experiances.

I deal with this alot being a ATI Procharger Dealer. I have a lot of customers that want a blower to help pull their load. They do help, but stay away from trying to pull 12,500lbs with your 1/2 ton pickup. We usually net around 360-390rwhp on the 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0 trucks, but torque is where its at.. a 4.8 making 390rwhp is only going to put out 300lb/ft of torque. A setup like this on a 99+ newer Chevy is around $5500 all said and done, but still won't keep up towing wise with a stock Duramax.

They also wear out your engine/tranny faster. I knew a guy with a whipple charger on a 454, he blew the tranny 10,000 miles of charging it.
i don't see how a blown gas motor would wear out a tranny quicker than a diesel making the same power and used under the same conditions.

the biggest drawbacks i see to a supercharger is that it even though it adds power it is not load sensitive like a turbo (think about how boost is made..) and blowers require at least some engine power to create their power adding effect. it kinda contradicts itself.

I have blown/broke every piece of my driveline/tranny/axles/transfercases more times than I care to remember with my blown small block Chevy. I can not believe the new diesels don't have problems like I have had but I can be hard on my stuff at times. I have blown my Art Carr tranny the first time I shifted from 1st to 2nd gear at 6500 RPM at WOT after breaking in my motor, broke a driveline in two pieces shifting to 3rd at WOT at 6500 RPM at 100 MPH doing 1/4 mile ET testing etc etc etc. I have blown front axles on the street and in the dirt, broken front end gears, drivelines, auto trannies multiple times including cracked cases (both 350's and 700R4's), transfercases multiple times including cracked in half cases, broken transfercase chains before going to a 205 case, broken spider gears twice in a 203. Only item I have not broke multiple times or even once has been the 14 bolt rear axle and gears which has a custom made spool. I honestly have never gotten more than 13000 miles out of a tranny (ever since I had the engine set up for 450 HP--trannies lasted much longer when I had less than 400 HP) before I went to a Turbo 400. I still enjoy racing the chipped diesel guys now and then and blowing them off. I am just shifting out of 1st gear at 65 MPH when they are hitting 3rd gear and my truck at this point is still pulling very hard. And the sound of a roots blower making boost--well I can make your ears ring with my hood up just winging the throttle in the driveway! I have actually had people swerve and loose control of their car when I put the hammer down next to them startling them out of their lane! Fun times with a blown gasser!

Jason :)

i don't see how a blown gas motor would wear out a tranny quicker than a diesel making the same power and used under the same conditions.

the biggest drawbacks i see to a supercharger is that it even though it adds power it is not load sensitive like a turbo (think about how boost is made..) and blowers require at least some engine power to create their power adding effect. it kinda contradicts itself.

You're right about the diesel vs blown gas motors, neither will wear a tranny out faster.

A supercharger is just as load sensitive, both have to work harder to make boost, turbo's require power to be applied to them to make boost, a supercharger will just absorb power to spin the air harder, depending on size vs displacement either a turbo or s/c can contradict itself.... most bolt on setups are designed to be the most efficient for the application.

First of all, let me say that there is no way you're getting 5 MPG with a gasser and 20 MPG with a diesel under the SAME conditions.

OK that was a little overstated, I guess more realisticly from what I have heard from gas guys I'll say 10-8 mpg city vs. 15-17 mpg, point being there is a fairly sizeable gap in milage between even a non blown gasser and a diesel. Another thing to note as you increase performance on a diesel (to a point) you will also pick up noticable milage, whereas a gasser with performance increases like a blower will decrease milage. Even the gasser guys have chimmed in here to some what help prove my earlier point, that being if you want a race truck buy a gas motor, if you want a truck to last longer, be more reliable and actually do some work with your truck get a diesel.

OH, BTW, to the gas guys talking smack about beating diesels in street races I have a challange for you, lets hook up 10,000 lb. trailers and see who wins then. :flipoff2:

OK that was a little overstated, I guess more realisticly from what I have heard from gas guys I'll say 10-8 mpg city vs. 15-17 mpg, point being there is a fairly sizeable gap in milage between even a non blown gasser and a diesel.

Whatever. I get 14 mpg with my 8.1 gasser city, (or highway for that matter) and 8-9 towing. The CTDs, 6.0s and 7.3s I have driven get between 12-15 on the same commute. I have seen 15-17 on the highway though with all but the 6.0 (best ever is 13 mpg).

The 7.3 got about the same towing mileage as my 8.1, the 6.0 gets the same towing a bigger trailer.

A few co workers and my brother have D-maxes and are claiming 16-17 city, and 20 highway, but I bet that extra OD is helping them (.61 IIRC).

HOWEVER:

The 6.0 runs up hills about the same speed and gets the same mileage as my 8.1 towing 15k instead of the 10 k I tow. In other words, hauling 50% more for the same gas and time. For towing big, I would go with the diesel, but for a daily driver the big block just gets it done, and no turbo lag.

Whatever. I get 14 mpg with my 8.1 gasser city, (or highway for that matter) and 8-9 towing. The CTDs, 6.0s and 7.3s I have driven get between 12-15 on the same commute. I have seen 15-17 on the highway though with all but the 6.0 (best ever is 13 mpg).
gotta agree with that. used my dads 8.1 to tow my rig (7-8k w/ trailer) and got 9-10 mpg. buddy with a 6.0 making the same drive with similar weight got 11. used a D-max to tow my rig and got 12-13. the D-max didn't feel any faster then the 8.1 either, its a different kind of power for sure but if you kept the gasser in its powerband it pulled more than ok, it made a 70-90 uphill pass faster than anything i've ever driven.

Remember if you make double the HP you will for the most part use twice the fuel. Diesel does have about 10% more BTU's per gallon than gas so it should be 10% more fuel efficient. Of course many of the gains with diesel have to do with the increased efficiency of the higher compression ratio especially at part throttle and a turbo is gennerally more thermally efficient as it uses heat that normally goes to waist. It takes a certain amount of power to move a load down or up the road--other than differences in efficiency mileage will be fairly similar for similar loads unless the combo is not tuned properly. Gennerally the diesel pickups are a bit heavier so that hurts their acceleration but if you are just pulling a long hill part throttle torque and more importantly gear spacing is more important. When you are wide open and pulling a very heavy load like 15000 lbs or more a truck with gear splitter like the Gear Vendors unit will make a ton of difference as you can match the RPM's to speed where your truck makes good torque/HP whether you are gas, turbo diesel or even blown gasser.

Jason :)

Whatever. I get 14 mpg with my 8.1 gasser city, (or highway for that matter) and 8-9 towing. The CTDs, 6.0s and 7.3s I have driven get between 12-15 on the same commute. I have seen 15-17 on the highway though with all but the 6.0 (best ever is 13 mpg).

The 7.3 got about the same towing mileage as my 8.1, the 6.0 gets the same towing a bigger trailer.

A few co workers and my brother have D-maxes and are claiming 16-17 city, and 20 highway, but I bet that extra OD is helping them (.61 IIRC).

HOWEVER:

The 6.0 runs up hills about the same speed and gets the same mileage as my 8.1 towing 15k instead of the 10 k I tow. In other words, hauling 50% more for the same gas and time. For towing big, I would go with the diesel, but for a daily driver the big block just gets it done, and no turbo lag.

Well if you go back to the orginal post that I was correcting in the post that you quoted I was refering to a blown gasser getting that type of milage, sorry for the confusion. Also you shouldn't put a CTD in the same breath as a powerchoke when mentioning fuel milage, CTD's get better milage over Ford any day of teh week, its a V8 vs. an I6 of course the I6 will do better. Hell what you stated for highway for the diesels is what I get in the city on a stock engine and that's with 288K, I think the only time I have done as bad 12MPG like you mentioned for diesels, was hauling some heavy ass loads. I don't think there is anyone out there who knows anything about newer Chevy trucks that doesn't agree the 8100 is a gas hog, there is no compersion between it and a diesel. Sure the 8100 is a very peppy motor and has power to boot, but with a little bit of mods. you can make a diesel spank and 8100 and increase milage. If you tried that with any gas motor you'd just kill milage. Like I said earlier in this post diesel is superior to gas in just about every way, maybe the only thing a gas motor has on a diesel is that diesels can be loud and intial cost is a bit less compared to a diesel.