What are people with big travel rear setups using for bushings on the lower links at the axle end?
What about at the chassis for the upper links?
Im looking at using small Rubicon Express Johnny Joints for the lower link to axle and large ones in the upper links to chassis. Anyone got any comments about this idea?
Does anyone have ACCURATE measurements for the small RE JJ's and radial load rating? Yes I have email RE but they never get back to me, pretty much like any US company I have ever emailed, do the 'locals' get the same treatment?

Cheers
Daryl

Stock and stock. Everything is stock and it will give as much articulation as the centre ball will allow.

Why do you want to change over to jonny joints. Seems like a lot of work. What benefits is there in jonny joints.

Heres a pic of my rear travel. This is as much travel as the centre ball joint will allow. The centre ball joint is binding at this point - anyone else notice the ball joint binding in the rear or does no one else have the binding trouble.

Sam

Hey Strange,
My rigs on jackstands at the moment and with the position I'm going to mount 9012's the middle balljoint is just binding at max articulation, works out to be about 22" of travel at the spring from full stuff to full droop. I was planning to remount the balljoint in the upper arms so it was at an angle to the upper arms so at full droop the angle on the bj isnt as acute and that will squeak a little more transverse travel out of it.
I wanted to go to JJ's because I'm concerned that more flex will tear the rubber bushes because they wouldnt like twisting that far, but if you can get a reasonable service life without the expense/pita of changing to something else even better.
Im gearing up for a 5 link front using JJ's at the diff and rover pin style bushes at the chassis, 600mm links parrallel, 100mm vertical sep, and top link about 150mm forward of the lower, design through necessity. Whaddya think?

Originally posted by Strange Rover
Stock and stock. Everything is stock and it will give as much articulation as the centre ball will allow.

The centre ball joint is binding at this point - anyone else notice the ball joint binding in the rear or does no one else have the binding trouble.

Sam

mine used to bind, but i welded 2 of the ball carriers on top of each other, about 30mm offset (to make the axle point up at the transfer box) and this has reduced the binding totally.

Jamie

I'm using JJ's (the 9/16's x 1" shank) from Currie...Dunno what the radial load is, but the static (and "weak" link) will be the 9/16 grade 8 that holds the joint in place...But SHEAR strength of that bolt is 22,390lbs, and from looking (and putting together the Currie JJ's) They would be very adequate in locating an axle.

I've heard of the center ball joint (stock) breaking with the binding occurring during extreme flex...Gotta' get that on right with the big/heavy axle/tire combo's we're starting to run.

Fortunately for those of us who are running custom links, we're not running high HP so shock loads wont' EVER be as high as the shear strength of the 9/16's...Provided they aren't binding in torsion.

I should add that (for the rear lowers) I'm using a 3/4 x 3/4 heim at the frame (had to get rid of those stock rock hangars)...And I'm using 1.75" x 3" x 5/8th bolts w/Polly bushes at the diff. For the upper 2 links (goin' 4 instead of 3 for simplicity sake) I'm using the 9/16 x 3" Currie JJ's at the diff, and the same as above poly bushes at the frame. The uppers will mount a little forward and a little backward of the stock locations (for extra length). A lot of guy's on this list use a rod-end at each connection point at the frame. Looking at it I don't think it's necessary. The Currie JJ's have a 30deg misalignment angle so I'm fine there...The ONLY concern is the 15 degree misalignment angel of the heims at the frame(lower control arms). However with the SG set up I didn't have any (that I knew of) binding of the heim in this configuration.

I do agree with Sam however that if your not completely redesigning (for increased WB) the rear suspension, keep it stock! It works very well..Has a Okay anti-squat characteristics, good roll center etc.

-D

The most basic way to get more travel and improve geometry on the rear end is to get (or make your own) center link mount like the one on Rovertyms site. This puts the ball joint back into a neutral position, thus allowing it to flex more than it would with the geometry change of a larger lift. It goes for $140, but that is cheaper than a bunch of johny joints. I use a johny joint in my trac bar (panhard rod) on my vehicle. I sheared a grade 5 bolt right after I put it on. I then redesigned the mount and am using a grade 8 bolt. No failure thus far, but I sure as hell wouldn't use one of these for susension. I would go heim way before I did this.

Way

P.S. I use the red poly bushing with 14" travel rear shocks, and I still bind due to the center link.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Way
[B]I use a johny joint in my trac bar (panhard rod) on my vehicle. I sheared a grade 5 bolt right after I put it on. I then redesigned the mount and am using a grade 8 bolt. No failure thus far, but I sure as hell wouldn't use one of these for susension. I would go heim way before I did this.

Way

Okay Adam...Since it's slow I'm gonna' call you on this...You mentioned you redesigned the mount...And were using grade 5...

Now, why did you redesign the mount? Why do you think the bolt sheard?

Personally I don't even see the need for a JJ, or heim on a track rod (pah-hard). The arc that it travels in (laterally) is so damn minimal that I just can't see the need to run any spherical joint. I'm planing on running bushes at both ends of my trac...Just like stock.

Now to the tough question why do you not think that two or more JJ's would be a problem in a upper wish-bone rear three link or 4 link? A 5/8's bolt in shear is huge...Then you x2 and remember that the lower links are also holding a bunch of load x2 again...Multiply it all out and your looking at (potential) static load rating of 100K! And with the JJ's you won't have the issues with dumping $ on worn heims every season.

Now, on the lowers (were the most force is transferred (and help me out here Rich and Sam) I would have reservations on running 5/8's bolts to my frame...But that's just because of a FEELING not looking at the numbers. I have a feeling it would be fine...Hell KC (d-90 lister) has them (in double shear) on his rig (lower link/upper frame mount) and hasn't had a failure, bend or anything for a couple of years now.

As it is slow, I will answer your question with a lengthy response.

The first question was why did I shear the grade 5. Originally I had the trac bar bolted with a "U" shape bracket directly to the spring perch plate box. I did not weld this bracket (super dumb) I used the grade 5 as it was what came with the JJ. I hadn't wheeled the vehicle yet and was driving to a friends house. He has a huge rock in his backyard. I wanted to see if my tires with the increased trac width would rub the body badly (basically checking where I needed to trim more). Upon going on the rock the bolt bent very badly. It was so bent it wouldn't come out of the joint. I hit the bolt laterally with a hammer and it broke. I then made a very ugly mount with my friends plazma cutter and used his portable 220 welder to weld it to the spring plate. The new mount is all 1/4" plate. It is ugly as hell, but it is super beefy.

The trac bar I use is from Rubicon Express. It was not long enough, so I used a threaded piece of DOM tubing with Jam nuts to extend the adjustable trac bar. I get a huge discount a RE and it was cheaper to get theres than special order DOM tubing from the local welding store. Hell they didn't even know what DOM tubing is ( I am still amazed)!!!! So that is why I run the JJ (although it is unnessary IMHO also). If the trac bar ever fails (very unlikely) I can get a replacement anywhere.

The bolt was very small. I think it is a 3/8" bolt. The grade 8 body shear is 9940. I am sure there are several different JJ, but I have heard under lateral pressure that the center ball pulls through the body of the JJ. On another note the joint is very sluggish to move. I greased the hell out of my joint and had to use a large screw driver to get it to even move. My heims on the other hand were silk from the beginning. I imagine this results in minimizing bending.

With a 5/8" bolt you should be fine, but I personally haven't seen a JJ in that size yet. Where are you getting these? Heims on trailing links do not wear very quickly as well. John at Rovertym recently posted a thread about how is 3/4" heims were in great shape after a year or so of his muddy wheeling. Also I have to question the amount of travel in a JJ vs. a heim. This is a huge deal if the JJ binds prior to maximizing travel. Personally I would use one 1" heim on the frame with a huge bolt and a standard bushing on the axle end. Man if anything, I think that you would maximize travel by replacing the stupid center A-arm link.

Way

Doug,

For the rear, your going with a 4link I guess thats a triangulated 4 link with the top arms triangulating to the top of the diff. And not 4links plus a panhard rod (I guess this would be a 5link). I only just worked this out as I started typing.

OK dumbass question what the hell is a jonny joint, pics anyone I thought it was another name for a heim.

Oh yea, bought a rockwell 2.5tonne steering axle. Got it real cheap ($250AUS) cause its missing the third member drop out section. Got it to play aroung with mounting wheel brakes etc. The axles in this sucka are huge. (esp. compared to d44 ones :D )

Sam

Sometimes a Johnny Joint (what currie enterprise calls there joint I think) is sometimes called a new generation heim.

Here is picture.

Edit: notice the small hole for a bolt. This is the weak link IMHO.

Rubicon JJ are adjustable, rebuildable and isolate road shock cause the ball is running in nylon/urethane. I can get them passed by the engineer for road use unlike regular heims.
They have a better range of movement than a rubber bush, and should have a better lifespan in high travel apps?
The reason the engineer will pass a JJ for road use is its yield and ultimate strengths are much further apart (in his opinion) than a heim joint.
This is why I'm looking at JJ's
Im not changing the wheelbase or arrangement in the rear so I will probably fix the centre ball issues and run with it if the general consensus is that this works.

What do SG arms have at the diff for bushings, front (three link) and rear?

What do SG arms have at the diff for bushings, front (three link) and rear?

The front 3-link utilizes the stock bushings and hardware at the frame end. I am using the red poly bushings and I get mega travel. As far as the axle end. He uses black bushings. Judging by the markings they are energy bushings and not daystar. The newer three links have a harder bushing than the earlier ones from what I have heard. Mine came with the new bushings supposedly.

As far as the rear, the axle end uses a bushing and the frame end has a special mount that uses a 3/4" heim (regular one).

Way