Please humor the Newbie...

Anyone have any thoughts on why we don't see more diesel applications in trail only rigs? (Initial cost i'm guessing). With all of the power upgrades for say the cummins motors do ya'll think this is a viable option? Would the weight be too great or what about the lack of tranny options? Just interested in your thoughts.

p.s. Wasn't there a sniper or something with a cummins motor? How did those hold up/perform? Any pics?

Thanks,
-Adam

i was going to do a cumming 6 cylinder trail rig, but the more i thought about it, i don't want the noise. you can't here your spotter for shit. the miliage would be great and the torque would be awsome. i just don't think its the right move for me. i am planning on going to a 500" caddy with a auto. yea i am getting lazy in my old age. with some nice quite mufflers

I didn't think about the noise issue...good point.

I wouldn't mind trading noise for torque :D

I've thought a lot about the diesel
the cummins would be great, but very heavy
I have a nissan diesel for sale they would work in a lightweight rig, but I think the best bet would be an ultralight buggy with a turbo volkswagon diesel
I drove one yesterday and that thing kicked it in 2nd gear
it was fun!

Pat Gremillion bought a Scorpion with a Cummins in it. Last I heard, he was going to swap in a gas engine. Not sure about all the particulars as to why.

I personally think its a great idea. Thats why I'm keeping the 6.2L Diesel engine in my Blazer. It'll be completely rebuilt and have a Banks Turbocharger on it by the time its trail-ready, though.

I have a dodge ram that I tow with, runs the cummins, I love it, I plan to use one in my trail rig eventually. the problems are the buy in cost, cheapest used cummins I have seen was $5k, came with a tranny but still probably needs a lot of extra bits to make it work, rebuilt 350 chev set me back $1k. the cummins adds the weight of almost a second small block chev to the nose where I am already a little heavy and it seems there is no way around that. finally the gas engines make nowhere near the bottom end torque but they have a lot more horsepower up top.

A Diesel won't smoke the tires like a gas motor will.

Originally posted by FatCity
A Diesel won't smoke the tires like a gas motor will.

YEA!

the answer to your prayers will not be a diesel nor a small block,
but - whatelse - a grouling BIG BLOCK.

this one will smoke your tires and will give you endless torque.

it will, though, empty your pockets cause it is THURSTY:D :D

Talk to Alan Lunghe (fj junky) He has an FJ55 witha Cummins 4 in there. The thign fully gets it, but there is a problem with the cummins motors, or any diesel for that matter. They shake like a mad man. That is why Gremillion took his out. He had the Cummins team out there working on his rig, and they were unable to get the shakes out of it. It is a great idea in theory, but I would not do it for the shakes, and the noise.

BTW Eric, HELL YEA you can smoke some 44's with a diesel motor. You just gotta build it for that reason.

Dimitri

One of the guys in my club is installing the small 6 banger diesel Cummins in Jeeps.
He just took the pics off of his site
www.4wdoutfitters.com

I once found a 4.3 v6 diesel in an 1988 olds. Never seen one before and wonder if it is any better than the old 5.7?

Charles was out on the Hammers for the Jamboree with his Cruizer with the 4 cylinder diesel. I drove it and it was sweet. That thinks sure seems to put out the torque. It was a bit loud but it was bad. I think that guy Alan (fj junky)sold it to Charles up in Reno. That thing is sweet. Does anyone have any pictures of it?

The biggest problems with the diesel are weight and the power transistion. I have have a Ford F350 with the full blown Banks kit, 35" tires and 3.55 gears. It will smoke the tires with out any problems. It is also almost uncontrollable in 4 Lo. I am ok as long as I watch the throttle but once the turbo hits 10 pounds of boost, the power transistion is so great that I lose contol. Imagine crawling up a hill with what seams like a torquey V8 at 1500rpm and then all of a sudden with just a little more gas it feels like the same engine at 3000rpm with NoS. Its that bad.

A non turbo diesel would not act like this but you would lose a lot a power and it would be affected by high altitudes a lot worse. I do not know how a smaller turbo diesel would behave.

Originally posted by FatCity
A Diesel won't smoke the tires like a gas motor will.


you wana bet

I saw some show and the got a newer GM truck I dont think it had the Duramax but it was a duly with a manual tranny and they added some chip and the thing was duning doughnust in the parking lot spining all 4... very impresev

Over here in Australia Diesels are the major engine used for offroad. heaps of torque cheap to run and they handle side angles etc better than most petrol engines and they can run underwater. As to the noise factor the modern diesel is not much noisier than a petrol. The old days of the clunky diesel are long gone. With a turbo on you can smoke your tyres (although why you want to is another thing)

I gotta 6.5 Chev diesel in my shorty with 4.1's & 35's no problem smoking the tyres in any gear, as for crawling all the weight up front is kinda helpful in more situations than not.

Can't beat it for fuel economy as it don't see anything past 1000 rpm in low range to go where i wanna go.

Rhino


www.snakeracing.com.au

I can't believe people are talking about noise when we are all running glass packs and $hit on our 350's and 454's! I have a solution to your spotter problem: HOLLAR! <In my best whiny-bitch voice> "Waa! I don't run diesel because I'm scared of the noise!" HAHA!

The reason few people run diesels is because they are heavy as hell, expensive as hell, don't turn out the RPM's like a gas engine, and have poor throttle-response.

I agree, they would be the ideal trail rig engine. But at the rate people in our sport burn out engines, who wants to buy or rebuild an expensive diesel every time they keep their engine in the red-zone too long? (Keeping in mind that it's easier to put a diesel into that red-zone.)

People like high rpm's. Hell, people NEED them! Out here in the east, there's slick rocks. I mean, not slick as in the sandpaper ya'll western boys drive on, but slick like snot and KY on the surface. The fact of the matter is, you just need some wheel speed to burn off the snot/lube! 3000 rpm just won't do it sometimes. :)

Also, I can't speak for EVERY diesel engine, but for many, and in my new Powerstroke, throttle response is OK, but nowhere near a carbed, much less injected, gas engine. And when your going down a steep hill and your rear end starts to go over your head, when you hit the gas, you don't want to wait even a second for the front wheels to start spinning! I assume that the slower throttle response is due to the slow-burning characteristics of diesel fuel itself. (Which is part of the reason why diesel gets so much more low end torque.)

Finally, diesels are heavy. Talk about tire wear! You'de be replacing your front tires often. Not to mention that, some tires, such as MUD TIRES, just aren't meant for that high of a load-rating. My dad ran BFG A/T's on his powerstroke, but kept having blowouts on the front. The load-rating just wasn't enough.

Anyway, there's your reasons. I wish it was more feasable to run them. I would if it was.

J. J.

Originally posted by SLO_Crawlers
Charles was out on the Hammers for the Jamboree with his Cruizer with the 4 cylinder diesel. I drove it and it was sweet. That thinks sure seems to put out the torque. It was a bit loud but it was bad. I think that guy Alan (fj junky)sold it to Charles up in Reno. That thing is sweet. Does anyone have any pictures of it?

You can see pics of it here:

Pigs on the Rubicon (http://www.birfield.com/~morgan/pigrun2001/index.php).

His is the FJ55 buggy with the woodgrain contact paper on the fenders. There's a cool sequence of him doing Soup Bowl with it. I hear the guy who bought it took off the sheet metal.

Sweet truck!

Morgan

All good info, but I am still amazed at the Diesels ability to run at almost any angle, cool, and no "black boxes" for the fuel delivery. The wheel speed problem may be fixed by changing to higher gears, although this will take some trial and error to best balance the torque on hand. I saw Electronic fuel injection systems from Howell, Accell, and Holley all fail this past weekend, and some 6.9 diesels just chugging away. just wondering:rolleyes:

In CA diesel= no more smog.:D On the won't smoke the tires... www.performancetruckandrv.com/product.htm#Cummins :D Give the video a second to load and you'll have to scroll to the top of the page.

I think the toy deisel is a pretty common swap for scouts.
I think the low end would be great

here is a good link for surplus diesel engines in arizona!!

http://www.i10surplus.com/prod12.htm

The problem is that almost no suitable diesels are in the US and they are not exactly DIY friendly and most mechanics don't even have a clue about them.

You either have 1980s crap (jeep VM, nissen, trooper etc.) VW or something that came out of a full size truck

There are a couple that made it over that might be ok. The 2.5 BMW diesel (good luck finding one) I have seen tweaked to 280hp (yes 280hp). Its not real heavy and it seems like a good choice.

If you are in the UK or Au then you have numerous choices of smaller lightweight diesel to swap in.

Ron

There is a guy with a weird rock buggy Its yellow tube full width axles with 44's and a nissan deisel that runs up and down the Rubicon trail. Actually I'm not sure he might have repainted the frame. But most of the people that go to the rubicon as often as I did last year would probably know the guy. Its not that load though and with gear reduction its all you need. I would love to convert my own vehicle to diesel But a fuel injected gas motor would be good enuogh for me. But with the addedc torque of the deisel make sure you upgrade the drivetrain behind it.

what about those i-6 mercedes diesels. They are more plentiful, quiet, have pretty good throttle responce. But I don't know about weight. Finding a tranny that would match would be a biatch tho.

NQS is building a scout with a diesel fron a '80 Scout II (sd33t)

bolts right up to my t-19 wide

NQS

Originally posted by NotQuiteSane
NQS is building a scout with a diesel fron a '80 Scout II (sd33t)



Joe, didn't anyone tell you 3rd person friday is a CC thing!?!?!??

I'm looking into a diesel conversion on my new Terra. I've got the 4-53T Detroit, the bellhousing, and I think it'll fit w/ a 2" body lift.
chuck in an aftercooler, viola!!! 220 hp out of 212 cubes of screaming Jimmy. Noise is certianly an issue w/ that set up.