Doc's new Project: 9mm AK-47

[usmcdoc14]

This is for the advance level build your own fucking assualt weapon students :flipoff2:

what I am doing is building an 9mm blowback operated rifle using a suomi 9mm sub-machinegun barrel and magazines and ak-47 reciever and fire control group. The project started as a from scratch upper and using a FAL lower but it brought the suck :( and what was odd is at the same time I was saying "Fuck it, I will use an AK reciever" is when I saw other nutjobs doing the same thing on gunsnet.net. One person over there made my life a LOT easier but we will get to that later.

Here is a rough mock up of the weapon to show what it will sorta look like when done. Please note that the barrel in the pic is just a chunk of spare AK barrel not the one to be used when its done.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=260215&stc=1&d=1156461059
Components:
AlohaRover AK-47 Receievr blank
Romanian AK-47 front trunnion, grip,bolt carrier,Gas tube and rear sight block
milled AK trigger guard
Tapco G3 FCG
FAL front gas block
Tapco FAL picatinny dust cover :evil: (YES it will work)
Suomi barrel and drum magazine
AK-74 bolt

Now I am making a blowback weapon so the gas portion of the AK is being kept for weight (inertia and delay) and for alignment. But the AK is a locking bolt weapon and I need a fixed bolt.
TAAAADAAAAA!!!!! mill out the bolt carrier for the 74 bolt to fit in the locked position.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=260216&stc=1&d=1156461059

Now the reason I am using a 74 bolt is its face diameter is 10mm so it will fit and feed a 9mm round perfect. you WILL have to sleeve it to fit the 47 carrier.
here it is is the rear locked position:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=260217&stc=1&d=1156461059
And side view:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=260218&stc=1&d=1156461059

I also REMOVED the locking lugs inside the front trunion. first by just leaving the flats but then as I fit and finished I found I had to shorten the distance fron the barrel to the feed ramp to assure good feed. I ended up taking a good inch off the back of the trunnion.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=260219&stc=1&d=1156461059

The bolt is now guided and kept in track by well...the fucking guide rails :laughing:

[usmcdoc14]

Now you can go and cut up an old soumi magazine well OR :D

you can cheat and use this guys'
http://www.lichtenbergresearch.com/index.html
His shit is pimp and very well made and has a feed ramp built in.

and If you slide his right up to the bottom of the guide rails it is a perfect fit and feed
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=260223&stc=1&d=1156462433

Now here is the distance from the magazine to the barrel position
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=260224&stc=1&d=1156462433

Now I kept the side part of the trunnion as it will be part of my bolt block that will act as a stop for the forward movement of the bolt and assure correct headspacing and not wear the bolt face.
Here is the veiw from the magwell to the ejector
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=260225&stc=1&d=1156462433

And this is how much the trunnion is moved BACK !! :eek:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=260226&stc=1&d=1156462433

so YES I will have to cut down the bolt the firing pin and the recoil spring.

Now for something neat :evil:
I had a spare Tapco FAL rail cover and was mocking it near the ak and found that if I add side dust "skirts" it is a FAWKING PERFECT FIT !! So it will have a full rail and will hinge off where the old rear sight used to be. it mates perfectly
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=260227&stc=1&d=1156462433

so it will hinge on the front and have a solid mount on the rear. The recoil spring will NOT touch the dust cover. And once I find some cheap STEEL picatinny rails I will chop the FAL front gas block and run rail on that AND the gas tube and use AR flip up sights that will co-witness with an EO Tech :bounce: :evil:

[Hef]

That is what I would call "Frankensubgun". It just screams out, "BETCHA CAN'T WAIT TO SEE ME BLOW UP!", though I am confident enough in your work to know it won't.

Fawking sweeeeeet. :D :laughing:

[animator]

I've got a spare AK receiver and a suomi parts kit just collecting dust...


so once you get yours finished I might have to copy it :D

[Frankenyota]

Holy shit Doc, you are definitely to the PhD level of "gunfuckery". I hope the thing works out for ya! I got to shoot a real (FA) AK a couple weeks ago, it was ok but my semi AK pistol is just as much fun, bumping a 75 rd drum rocks.:D

[aloharover]

Now for something neat :evil:
I had a spare Tapco FAL rail cover and was mocking it near the ak and found that if I add side dust "skirts" it is a FAWKING PERFECT FIT !! So it will have a full rail and will hinge off where the old rear sight used to be. it mates perfectly:

Awsome tip. Going to have to get one of those and give it a try for my FAK-308 Carbine

[aloharover]

Components:
AlohaRover AK-47 Receievr blank


whoot. Glad it is serving a purpose other then a paperweight.

:laughing:

[Joe_W]

Just curious, how does the chubby jesus-lover roommate react when she comes home and finds you sitting at the coffee table with evil black gun parts spread all over, deathmetal cranked on the stereo and porn on the computer screen?

[animator]

Just curious, how does the chubby jesus-lover roommate react when she comes home and finds you sitting at the coffee table with evil black gun parts spread all over, deathmetal cranked on the stereo and porn on the computer screen?



Perfect examples of why I'm single.. :flipoff2:

[0ILBURNER]

Wow - that's some hard-core weapon fab shit right there, man.
So much for interchangeable parts!
I'd love to see a vid when you get it working :grinpimp:

[usmcdoc14]

Awsome tip. Going to have to get one of those and give it a try for my FAK-308 Carbine

I will post pics of the skirting and shit so you have an easy time of it. I am just debating if i want a "flat" ass to the gun to the stock mounting (gonna make it a folder) or if I want to machine a chunk of aluminum to give it a more "tapered" ass like the top end of a MP5 or a G3

Just curious, how does the chubby jesus-lover roommate react when she comes home and finds you sitting at the coffee table with evil black gun parts spread all over, deathmetal cranked on the stereo and porn on the computer screen?

well she is from Virginia so guns are a part of life. I turn off my porn when its not used and she listens to punk so the death metal aint gonna do shit :laughing:

dammit, no emotional truma :flipoff2:

[usmcdoc14]

That is what I would call "Frankensubgun". It just screams out, "BETCHA CAN'T WAIT TO SEE ME BLOW UP!", .

why do you think I am using a barrel with a near 1/4 thick chamber with pistol ammo :laughing:

[4runner]

I was looking the same direction a couple weeks ago...I love the suomi shroud and comp...

[4runner]

oh yeah, the comp...

[4runner]

or you could get sidetracked...

[usmcdoc14]

or you could get sidetracked...

thats simmilar to what I am thinking of doing for the ass...maybe :laughing:

I too love that barrel shroud but that fucker is HEAVY !! :eek: so I decieded to slim that heavy pig down a bit.

[Mo]

questions:

a. legality? paperwork necessary?

b. are you using anything more precise than a Dremel for your 'machine work'?

[Frankenyota]

One funny coincidence is that a good friend of mine just bought a 9mm AK. I have no idea what pieces or parts are in it, but if you'd like some pics for comparison purposes I'm sure he won't mind.

[usmcdoc14]

questions:

a. legality? paperwork necessary?

b. are you using anything more precise than a Dremel for your 'machine work'?

A) read the "How to build an AK " thread :flipoff2:

but to save you that time in its cliff note form = yes legal, no papers needed.

b) is there anything more precise ? :confused:














:flipoff2: yes dremel :D the only machine work that has to be balls on is the barrel and the headspacing. everything else in an AK can be "off" and work just fine...ok it can be bent in an arch and still work :laughing:
Like I said, I am sitting on the living room floor and doing this build :D

[usmcdoc14]

One funny coincidence is that a good friend of mine just bought a 9mm AK. I have no idea what pieces or parts are in it, but if you'd like some pics for comparison purposes I'm sure he won't mind.

what mags does it use?

[Frankenyota]

what mags does it use?

That was my first question too, I think it uses sten mags.

[TheRedHorseman]

ugh, I hate loading sten mags

[usmcdoc14]

That was my first question too, I think it uses sten mags.

ya , take some pics. it culd help out someone else thinking of building one. might even have some easier ideas. but so far this fucker can not get any easier :laughing:

I need to get some soumi stick magazines too :evil:

[usmcdoc14]

ugh, I hate loading sten mags

thats why I LOVE thses drum mags.

open magazine
rotate center thing to the level you want to load
fill with rounds
place cover on
lock cover

thats it :evil:

[TheRedHorseman]

yup, easy like a chicom AK drum, great stuff. once I get my PPS-43/AKM hybrid done I'm definitely doing one of these, soumi drums just rock.

[Frankenyota]

ya , take some pics. it culd help out someone else thinking of building one. might even have some easier ideas. but so far this fucker can not get any easier :laughing:

I need to get some soumi stick magazines too :evil:

He should have it sometime in the next week, I'll get some pics and post them up.

[usmcdoc14]

Question:

I had to remove the cocking lever due to the new placemet of the bolt so I will need a new cocking handle. This leave me to debate:

New cocking handle, right side (normal AK spot)

or

new handle, on the gas tube, right side like an HK MP5 :evil: I can EASILY pull that off :D

[TheRedHorseman]

I vote for upturned like a Galil

[Bones]

I understood absofuckinlutly nothing in this thread and I tried reading the first 15 posts..:laughing:

[usmcdoc14]

I vote for upturned like a Galil

ya and smack my hand on my optics everytime I charge the fucker :rolleyes: :flipoff2:
it was going to be at a 45* andgle is if I weld on a "ak" style one.

But the HK style looks pimp :evil:

[usmcdoc14]

I understood absofuckinlutly nothing in this thread and I tried reading the first 15 posts..:laughing:what part of the first sentence in my first post did ya not get :flipoff2:

[TheRedHorseman]

ya and smack my hand on my optics everytime I charge the fucker :rolleyes: :flipoff2:
it was going to be at a 45* andgle is if I weld on a "ak" style one.

But the HK style looks pimp :evil:

bah, stupid optics.

the HK looks cool, but I don't like the idea of a reciprocating handle on the side I'm on. can you do non recip?

[usmcdoc14]

bah, stupid optics.

the HK looks cool, but I don't like the idea of a reciprocating handle on the side I'm on. can you do non recip?

yes. it wont move.
the system would charge via the gas piston. the gas pistion will have the end cut off anyway (shortened the reciever) so I would have the gas pistion "stub" go into a hollow "piston" that would have the charging handle attached and this would be inside the gas tube :D

I can draw it out if that helps :laughing: and it would have the ability to lock forward and also lock the bolt open like the same as an HK and I would use a FALish folding handle on it :evil:

[Bones]

what part of the first sentence in my first post did ya not get :flipoff2:
I DID know it was about a gun :D

[SeaBass44]

yes. it wont move.
the system would charge via the gas piston. the gas pistion will have the end cut off anyway (shortened the reciever) so I would have the gas pistion "stub" go into a hollow "piston" that would have the charging handle attached and this would be inside the gas tube :D

I can draw it out if that helps :laughing: and it would have the ability to lock forward and also lock the bolt open like the same as an HK and I would use a FALish folding handle on it :evil:


do it!

ya know I think I'm glad we can't build these in CA, I would go broke!!!!!!!!!!!!:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[rockhardmj]

I would like to see some pics/vids of this being used on an assailent or robber or similar criminally profiled type. I think it would be kick ass.

[usmcdoc14]

I would like to see some pics/vids of this being used on an assailent or robber or similar criminally profiled type. I think it would be kick ass.

It will be the only "ak" I own that I will aprove for indoor "targets" :laughing:

I think I need to engrave its model designator as:
WTF9
:grinpimp:

[Benzz0]

Sell it to me when you're done :D:D:D





no seriously :grinpimp:

[Cue-Ball]

You, my friend, are a very scary, scary person.

[usmcdoc14]

Sell it to me when you're done :D:D:D





no seriously :grinpimp:

that would be illegal fuckstick :flipoff2: the reciever has no serial numbers
:p

You, my friend, are a very scary, scary person.
no I am a cheap bastard who can not afford store purchaced toys and have to build my own.

thats all :evil:

[Mo]

so, what you're saying is that since you're broke, you took it upon yourself to make a big ass zip gun?

[usmcdoc14]

so, what you're saying is that since you're broke, you took it upon yourself to make a big ass zip gun?

do not insult me sir. :shaking: "zip gun" :shaking:





(its semi-auto and has a real barrel :flipoff2: )

[usmcdoc14]

Back in action :D
Now that Gozuki has done some kick ass fucking lathe work for me I can start putting this bitch together this weekend :evil:

[bronko]

Pics of so said mill work???

[aloharover]

OMG this thing still isn't done?

[usmcdoc14]

OMG this thing still isn't done?

lick sack :flipoff2:

I had to move fucker :laughing:

[usmcdoc14]

well here is how the littl bitch sits as of right now :D
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268819&stc=1&d=1161486977
Please note the kick ass fake silencer made by Gozuki to make the barrel the legal leight. he also did the lathe work to turn the barrel diameter to fit the sleeve for the trunnion and to fit the rear sight block and front sight.

This is the charging handle that KICKED MY FUCKING ASS for a few hours :shaking:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268820&stc=1&d=1161486977
but it works and works well :evil: it can also be locked to the rear
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268821&stc=1&d=1161486977

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268822&stc=1&d=1161486977

I had to custom make a gas piston so the handle would work as I tried to make a short charging tube but it would bind like a motherfucker. and I could not cut the whole piston way down for fear it would catch or bind as it is a guide part.
So with the welder and some steel tube I made a new piston head that is part the way down
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268823&stc=1&d=1161486977

ya it looks like ass but I don't care and I will someday make a solid one if I get bored :flipoff2:

[usmcdoc14]

Here you can see the cocking tube with the temporary charging handle.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268824&stc=1&d=1161487483
By making the tube long and having the front of the piston actually go inside it makes it not bind and also cuts down on rattles

i will make a nice charging handle for it maybe tomorrow.

I also made a nice big mag release button :evil:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268827&stc=1&d=1161487483
it works pimp.

Now one of the things I was worrying about is that the contact point with the bolt carrier and the front trunnion is what keeps the headspace now. I figure with repeated smackings this might eventually wear.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268825&stc=1&d=1161487483
so I added another to the other side out of 1/4 steel and now the bolt carrier is stopped squarely and should never change headspacing
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268826&stc=1&d=1161487483

I also have to pull my barrel pin as I mangled the fuck out of it. It will hold but it dos not fully go across the trunnion.

[aloharover]

sweet!!

I recognize the front sight but not the handguards.

[usmcdoc14]

sweet!!

I recognize the front sight but not the handguards.
Siaga :D

[usmcdoc14]

oh ya, the old gas tube is cut and sleeved INSIDE the steel tube you see so that the gas piston will still guide and also to make up for the good inch or so the FAL front sight is pushed forward

[aloharover]

Very nice build. I knew you moved but didn't notice where until just now. Not much of a move, you could of still commuted :flipoff2:

My sister and family are in VB. Looks like I need to plan on bring all the go bang stuff with me when we go visit next :D

[APRILRAZZ]

Very nice build. I knew you moved but didn't notice where until just now. Not much of a move, you could of still commuted :flipoff2:

My sister and family are in VB. Looks like I need to plan on bring all the go bang stuff with me when we go visit next :D
Make sure you get your ass out here before the first of the year when I have to leave:flipoff2:

[aloharover]

Leave as in PCS or just a 6-9 month Med Cruise?

[usmcdoc14]

Leave as in PCS or just a 6-9 month Med Cruise?

my ass is here for like 3 years :laughing:
Lots of time to finish the rage of the Amigo and firearms :evil:

[APRILRAZZ]

Leave as in PCS or just a 6-9 month Med Cruise?
Med cruise with a few warm sandy areas thrown in:D

[usmcdoc14]

OMFG it fucking works !! :bounce: :laughing:

At first I was getting stovepipes and jams because the opening in the cut down "stock" ak dust cover is too small. Because as soon as I took off the dust cover that bitch ate ammo like it was cool :laughing: 180 rounds strait with no jams or miss fires :eek:

I am getting the trigger hanging up on a burr or something as it will not click off the sear once in a while. No big deal its an easy fix no matter what is exactly causing it. Some polishing and looking will fix it.

I had to put an overtravel stop on the trigger because it was being pulled too far back and the hammer tagging the sear. I figured that out before I even took it to the range.

as for accuracy: :laughing: I have no clue. it has no sights and I was hip firing it :laughing: but i was putting and keeping it center mass on a silhouette target at 25 feet :flipoff2:

Updates will come when I get back in a few weeks and finish it.

[ChiefSlapaHo]

Slick! I'm glad it didn't blow up in yer face like I thought it might have :flipoff2:

[aloharover]

Slick! I'm glad it didn't blow up in yer face like I thought it might have :flipoff2:

Yeah glad to hear you didn't shoot yourself in the leg again :flipoff2:

[usmcdoc14]

fuck you both :laughing:

[usmcdoc14]

It was sooooo much fun to fire :evil: it has a soft *bump* like recoil to it, just enough to let you know it has fired. It need a side folding stock, light and a aimpoint/eotech and it will be the home protection device :laughing:
I am having problems with the FAL dustcover and mount so I think I will keep the stock one for a bit till I get more time to figure it out. I also want to ream out the old barrel pin as it is a bitch for a drill to cut this right and it does not make me happy.
It will hold and have no problem with movement, I just don't like it.

[4runner]

post up some new pix of that biotch.
show me the insides with the dust cover off. show me the forward area with teh handguard removed...

post a vid of you shooting it from the hip.

[usmcdoc14]

post up some new pix of that biotch.
show me the insides with the dust cover off. show me the forward area with teh handguard removed...

post a vid of you shooting it from the hip.
2 weeks from now fucker :laughing: what the pics a page ago were not good enough?

[4runner]

those were all blurry glimpses of what could be, show me what worked for you and how you made it look decent. :flipoff2:

[usmcdoc14]

The safety was pissing me off while I am trying to figure why it ejects great with the dust cover off but not with it on :confused: Tomorrow I should try it out again.
But anyway.... Right hand sweep forward safety on a motherfucking AK :laughing:
sorry for the blurry pics, there was not enough light.

safe
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=302613&stc=1&d=1178401484

dead :evil:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=302616&stc=1&d=1178401484

the backside
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=302614&stc=1&d=1178401484

The "sweep lever" is made from a old hammer and some 1/8" steel I ground off the hammer part. There is a "bump" that pushes it to safe and a "hook" that pulls it to fire using the existing safety inside shit. The backside will get done in another shape than a circle..or maybe not :laughing: Inside is a tube with a AR detent spring and brass thing that clicks into detents cut in the shaft to lock it in position. It looks sorta ghetto inside but it fucking works. I will take better pics when it all comes apart for painting. I will put a allen head screw on the end of the lever for something to push/pull on but it works fine now.

I also made a charging handle for it instead of the steel bar that was there.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=302615&stc=1&d=1178401484

[aloharover]

What no folding charging handle?

I like the safety.

[usmcdoc14]

What no folding charging handle?

I like the safety.

na, no real added perk for a folding handle.

The safety would be a LOT easier if you have a pair of steel gears :laughing: next one if I do that I will find a set before even start

[aloharover]

need photos of the FCG.

[usmcdoc14]

need photos of the FCG.

when I take it apart for finishing :laughing:

[aloharover]

Just went back and read everything.
Is there a spring behind the charging handle?
If not are you worried about it sliding back during operation?

[usmcdoc14]

Just went back and read everything.
Is there a spring behind the charging handle?
If not are you worried about it sliding back during operation?

it free floats and even if it does go to the rear it just slams home the same as when you charge it. I have deliberatly fired "upward" with it and it does not do a thing.

[attachcurrie]

awesome build. do you do all these builds just for kicks or gunsmith professionally/semi-pro?

[usmcdoc14]

awesome build. do you do all these builds just for kicks or gunsmith professionally/semi-pro?

I do these for kicks :laughing: I will show you why

HK MP5 clone
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/admin/images/content/v94101.jpg
$1,000- $1,500

9mm AR-15
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/admin/images/content/K9.jpg
$800 - $1500


Doc 9mm AK47 (or the WTF9)
total price so far is well under $400 :flipoff2:

If I had the time I would go pro and get a lathe and bridgeport

Oh and I am going to make the right side "button" into a ambi-safety with its own markings and a small nub for you to sweep it like a regular AK.

[Aces'n'8s]

So it the bolt circular? When the charging handle rotates and catches the stop, I assume the bolt rotates as well?

Spectacular as always.

[usmcdoc14]

So it the bolt circular? When the charging handle rotates and catches the stop, I assume the bolt rotates as well?

Spectacular as always.

no, the bolt is a "normal" ak74 bolt with a welded in sleeve to fit a 47 carrier. the carrier is milled to lock the bolt in the turned rear position (locked) like when a AK is in normal battery. (see 1st page)

The charging handle and tube just push the bolt carrier to the rear and/or lock it there. it only cycles the action and does not change the bolt position (as it is locked)
There is no bolt position change as this is a "blowback" weapon and relies on the inertia of the bolt/carrier and recoil spring to hold the chamber closed till it reaches a safe PSI (like a hi-point) and it does it quite well as I have noted no cartridge bulging or carrier smacking to the rear.

[attachcurrie]

are you supposed to register a build after it's done or do you just register the receiver and that's all you are required?

[usmcdoc14]

are you supposed to register a build after it's done or do you just register the receiver and that's all you are required?

I don't register dick :laughing: :flipoff2:

its a home build (don't need numbers) it will not be a SBR (dont need numbers) it is semi-auto (I cant build a full auto anyway) and the US parts counts exceed what is needed.

Read the "How to build an AK variant" thread ifyou wish to know more about why it is legal and why i do not need to register it. Mind you this varies from state to state.

[Romogo]

If you ever need a place to fire that thing off, let me know. You can come over and shoot whatever you want here. I have targets set up at 100, 200 and 300 yards. Could probably get out to 500 if I really wanted too. :D

Basically I just wanna see that thing :laughing:

[kf4zht]

What are those blue rounds you were testing with? Are they just snap caps or are they those low velocity primer only rounds?

[usmcdoc14]

What are those blue rounds you were testing with? Are they just snap caps or are they those low velocity primer only rounds?

They are actual PLASTIC 9mm rounds. the whole thing is plastic except for the aluminum base, they have a powder charge, they have the same flight ballistics as ball rounds, they do not have enough power to cycle a action, they would fuck someone up if they were hit with one :laughing:

I got them from sportsmans guide a while back. they make great remedial action drill rounds

[kf4zht]

They are actual PLASTIC 9mm rounds. the whole thing is plastic except for the aluminum base, they have a powder charge, they have the same flight ballistics as ball rounds, they do not have enough power to cycle a action, they would fuck someone up if they were hit with one :laughing:

I got them from sportsmans guide a while back. they make great remedial action drill rounds

How loud are they?

[usmcdoc14]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=235125

LOUD :laughing: like a regular round almost. found this out firing one in the garage

[Aces'n'8s]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=235125

LOUD :laughing: like a regular round almost. found this out firing one in the garage

Sold out....should've ordered some when I first saw them.

[usmcdoc14]

update:
got in some suomi stick magazines and with some minor "adjustment" to the magazine well they appear to work :evil: I will have to test this this weekend.

[aloharover]

update:
got in some suomi stick magazines and with some minor "adjustment" to the magazine well they appear to work :evil: I will have to test this this weekend.

Have you ever compared the Suomi to Sten or Uzi mags?
Just wondering if there might not be something more affordable that would work?
Ever looked at those after market 30rd M9 mags?

[usmcdoc14]

Have you ever compared the Suomi to Sten or Uzi mags?
Just wondering if there might not be something more affordable that would work?
Ever looked at those after market 30rd M9 mags?

they are $10 each from cheaper than dirt and like brand new :laughing: that is cheap enough
they look VERY strong and are much easier to load than a sten

[Holocene]

HK MP5 clone
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/admin/images/content/v94101.jpg
$1,000- $1,500


Wow, that is pretty badass.

Not a bad price considering you'll likely pay $4,000 for an HK-94. (If you can find one).

[TheRedHorseman]

Wow, that is pretty badass.

Not a bad price considering you'll likely pay $4,000 for an HK-94. (If you can find one).

Too bad that if it's a bobcat or special weapons clone it's likely not going to work.

[aloharover]

How the hell does a company stay in business making weapons that dont work?

And no I am not trying to use the info to develop my business plan :D

[4runner]

NO idea, but I see these things all over the place...no one wants to buy them...well, at least for $1K they don't...
fella down at DFW had about ten on his table for over a year, then suddenly, all he had was 45acp copies, priced at $900...they LOOK nice, but I never picked one up to see how free the bolt was...I have been told, the bolt sticks badly in these due to bad form on the receivers...
hey, I will be at the gunshow in Lawton, OK tomorrow...anyone else going?
I KNOW, it is miniscule and mediocre, but, I like to go look and I have a dollar off coupon so, why not?

[Azzy2000]

How the hell does a company stay in business making weapons that dont work?

And no I am not trying to use the info to develop my business plan :D

I dont get it either... I guess there are enough newbies each year that dont know any better, that actually buy enough of their crap to keep them in business. Hesse and Special Weapons (or whatever theyre calling themselves this month) seem to be the worst offenders.

[Holocene]

Too bad that if it's a bobcat or special weapons clone it's likely not going to work.

Hey, when you're clearing jams, you at least want to look really cool doing it...:flipoff2:

[usmcdoc14]

NO idea, but I see these things all over the place...no one wants to buy them...well, at least for $1K they don't...
fella down at DFW had about ten on his table for over a year, then suddenly, all he had was 45acp copies, priced at $900...they LOOK nice, but I never picked one up to see how free the bolt was...I have been told, the bolt sticks badly in these due to bad form on the receivers...
hey, I will be at the gunshow in Lawton, OK tomorrow...anyone else going?
I KNOW, it is miniscule and mediocre, but, I like to go look and I have a dollar off coupon so, why not?
pawn shop near me had 2
one of each :laughing:
"can I see that one?"
"ok, never mind"
"Can i see the other one?"
"never mind"




Update on the weapon:
The ejector is kicking the rounds back and out to the same spot every time. problem is the hole in the dust cover is too far forward :laughing: easy fix.
It does not feed the "box" mags well :( I will play with this some more.
The bolt will have to be "pinned" in some way as it likes to rotate a little: easy fix, I will just drill a hole in the carrier so I can still remove the firing pin cross pin and weld the bitch in place :laughing:

[aloharover]

eEasy fix, I will just drill a hole in the carrier so I can still remove the firing pin cross pin and weld the bitch in place :laughing:

The Yugo carrier I drilled was HARD.. to drill and tap.
New bit, lots of lube. Killed the bit.
Very difficult to tap also, maybe get 1/8 of a turn then back off.

[TheRedHorseman]

AK carriers are all like that, they suck to drill.

[afroman006]

Hey doc earlier in the thread you said you were wanting to put a shitload of rail on this thing and I didnt know if you had seen this yet.
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/rsharpe08/AK%20build/rail.jpg
I found it on Copes, I assume its fairly new cause it wasnt on there last time I looked about a week ago. Between this and Scott's rail I think your sighting plan is coming together:D. At $70 it might be a little steep for your taste, but it looks prety well made.

I am wanting to build one of these little bastards too. I'm probably gonna go with your guy's magwell, but I think I'm gonna use a uzi barrel. I have found them in 16, 17 1/2 and 19 inch lengths so I wont have to mess with an extender. I know the barrel pin will only go through the trunnion sleeve and not the barrel itself with the uzi barrel but seeing as how the sleeve is supposed to be plug welded to the barrel anyway, I dont see this being a problem. I am wanting to put an adjustable stock on it, I'm thinkin something from ACE (I assume their stuff is a little stouter than Tapco's?) and a saiga forend like yours. Where'd you get it? :flipoff2: I cant find em anywhere.

Also, did you ever get any pictures of the safety mechanisms? I figure since the rest of the gun will be an example of bastardized improvization why should the safety be any different! Thanks

P.S. I will be needing to find someone to do the lathe work on the barrel for me. I have a friend with access to machine labs but they are on campus and working on gun parts is apparently frowned on. I have a receiver bending jig that I can loan in exchange for the work, or trade gun or truck parts.

[usmcdoc14]

Hey doc earlier in the thread you said you were wanting to put a shitload of rail on this thing and I didnt know if you had seen this yet. .

yes I saw that and it got my attention...badly :D I just want to see the actual back mounting before I buy one but it looks like a killer yet simple idea

[afroman006]

Where'd you get the saiga handguard for and where are them pics of the safety!?!?!?:smokin:

[Hef]

Hey doc earlier in the thread you said you were wanting to put a shitload of rail on this thing and I didnt know if you had seen this yet.
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/rsharpe08/AK%20build/rail.jpg
I found it on Copes, I assume its fairly new cause it wasnt on there last time I looked about a week ago. Between this and Scott's rail I think your sighting plan is coming together:D. At $70 it might be a little steep for your taste, but it looks prety well made.

I am wanting to build one of these little bastards too. I'm probably gonna go with your guy's magwell, but I think I'm gonna use a uzi barrel. I have found them in 16, 17 1/2 and 19 inch lengths so I wont have to mess with an extender. I know the barrel pin will only go through the trunnion sleeve and not the barrel itself with the uzi barrel but seeing as how the sleeve is supposed to be plug welded to the barrel anyway, I dont see this being a problem. I am wanting to put an adjustable stock on it, I'm thinkin something from ACE (I assume their stuff is a little stouter than Tapco's?) and a saiga forend like yours. Where'd you get it? :flipoff2: I cant find em anywhere.

Also, did you ever get any pictures of the safety mechanisms? I figure since the rest of the gun will be an example of bastardized improvization why should the safety be any different! Thanks

P.S. I will be needing to find someone to do the lathe work on the barrel for me. I have a friend with access to machine labs but they are on campus and working on gun parts is apparently frowned on. I have a receiver bending jig that I can loan in exchange for the work, or trade gun or truck parts.

That thing is solid? I couldn't imagine keeping an optic zeroed on that sort of mount, but I could be wrong.

[Gozuki]

"P.S. I will be needing to find someone to do the lathe work on the barrel for me. I have a friend with access to machine labs but they are on campus and working on gun parts is apparently frowned on."

I did the lathe work for doc, I can probably help you out. PM me with details or your phone #...

[usmcdoc14]

I did the lathe work for doc, I can probably help you out. PM me with details or your phone #...

yup, and FULLY kicked ass. :D someone local needs to give him a handjob for me :flipoff2:

[Gozuki]

Ummm.... no. Thanks though. :D

[afroman006]

"P.S. I will be needing to find someone to do the lathe work on the barrel for me. I have a friend with access to machine labs but they are on campus and working on gun parts is apparently frowned on."

I did the lathe work for doc, I can probably help you out. PM me with details or your phone #...

Sweet, thanks :bounce2: I dont have any parts for it yet, but I'll certainly give you a shout when the time comes.

[afroman006]

when I take it apart for finishing :laughing:

[whiney bastard] C'mawn you had to have blasted and painted it by now! I need close up pics of the safety setup, I'm losing sleep over it for the love of god!!!















...not really, but I would do things that are illegal everywhere but vegas to get some damn pics! :flipoff2:

[usmcdoc14]

its been a backburner project while I do some refinishing for cash

[afroman006]

On lichtenburg's website tutorial, it looks like they didnt cut the receiver any shorter than normal. Why/how did you cut it down an inch or so doc? I'd prefer to cut it like you did to make the OAL a little shorter but not if it adds more difficulty. It looks like on their build that they just pressed the barrel way further in than really neccesary. Is this where you eliminated the inch? I'm hoping to get my parts kit demilled this weekend so I can send my barrel off to gozuki to get turned. I'm also hoping to get the receiver bent up and maybe even install the front trunion and magwell.

Along those lines, how do you go about getting the RSB, GB nd FSB off the barrel? Knock the roll pins out with a punch and then press off? Any special techniques or precautions? I assume I'm gonna have to fabricate some jigs to hold everything in place while I press the blocks on and off correct? Thanks

[usmcdoc14]

On lichtenburg's website tutorial, it looks like they didnt cut the receiver any shorter than normal. Why/how did you cut it down an inch or so doc?

to move the chamber closer to the magazine/feed lips for less chance of a miss-feed

I'd prefer to cut it like you did to make the OAL a little shorter but not if it adds more difficulty. It looks like on their build that they just pressed the barrel way further in than really neccesary. Is this where you eliminated the inch?

pretty much. I did not go off his build at all other than the idea. There is no need to the barrel to be waythefuck in there without the trunnion. putting it in further required no more effort than hacking off the extra reciver.

Along those lines, how do you go about getting the RSB, GB nd FSB off the barrel? Knock the roll pins out with a punch and then press off?

yup. most pins drift from right to left or just look at what side is smaller and thats the side you whack.

Any special techniques or precautions? I assume I'm gonna have to fabricate some jigs to hold everything in place while I press the blocks on and off correct? Thanks

only if you plan on saving the barrel. in that case the only "special tool" is a bunch of pennies on the barrel so you dont fuck up the chamber when pressing it out. the gas block and front sight should whack off with a dead blow or knock it off with a brass drift going from side to side.

[afroman006]

Finally got to start working on the 9mm yesterday. Since I am having to put a new barrel on it I have to take all the pressed on pieces off the old barrel to swap over. Driving/pressing out the various pins turned out to be really time consuming so I wasnt able to get it completely stripped yesterday. The barrel pin is the worst though. I made a little collar for the shaft of the press with a stub made out of 1/4" G5 bolt to press the pin out (similar to the kit offered by AK builder) and subsequently bent 5 bolts (each progressively shorter than the previous) before finaly heating everything up as hot as my little propane torch could. That finaly did the trick and I got the pin knocked start, but ran out of daylight and motivation before getting it all the way out.

I decided I am probably going to mount some kind of optic on it such as an Eotec or some similar hologram based sight. This obviously required some kind of mount and because of the way I will have to cut into the receiver for the drum mag to fit, the normal AK scope mount that attaches to the side of the receiver wouldnt work.

I bought 2 feet of steel picanty rail when Scott made a batch. I dont plan on mounting anything on the front piece of rail right now but wanted to retain the option of using HK open sights in the future. It took me a few hours of grinding, eyeballing, leveling, etc. but as far as I can tell (or measure) it came out prety much perfectly straight. I left the back part full length for the moment until I decide how long I want it to be. The front will deffinately require some filling and grinding to make it look somewhat decent, and I may end up ditching that part in the end if it looks totaly retarded.:laughing:
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/rsharpe08/AK%20build/9mm.jpg

[Gozuki]

Speaking of ak pistols, here's one I finished this weekend...

[4runner]

is that 4" bbl?


finally someone makes it short enuff to carry...that is almost screaming SBR with a sidefolder...

[Gozuki]

is that 4" bbl?


finally someone makes it short enuff to carry...that is almost screaming SBR with a sidefolder...

Crappy cellphone pic. No, that is 8", too big for a holster, just right for a vertical sling carry...

[afroman006]

Progress from the weekend.
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/rsharpe08/AK%20build/receiver2.jpg

[usmcdoc14]

looks good so far, once you have the trunnion in place where ya want it just weld that bitch there too :D

[afroman006]

I'll probably leave the trunnion with the screws, if only for the fact that I wont have to deal with the receiver when pressing the new barrel in. The magwell will be welded in all around though, but for the moment its being held in by 2 screws. I'm waiting for my phantom flash supresor to come in before I send my barrel off to gozuki for the lathe work. Still plenty of work left to do on the receiver though and finals and an annual wheelin trip to Oklahoma are coming up so I doubt the barrel issue will slow me down.

[afroman006]

How did you decide where to have gozuki cut the barrel pin notch? I assume the most important part is the breech face distance from the magwell feed ramp? Do you base all the other measurements (i.e. exact locations of areas where RSB and GB will be pressed onto?) off of the pin locating notch?

[4runner]

where you getting the magwell?

[JEEPRZ]

Speaking of ak pistols, here's one I finished this weekend...


Looks good. Mine came out at about nine inches. Was too much work to make it any shorter without using a lathe.
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5105/1010002fm1.jpg

[usmcdoc14]

How did you decide where to have gozuki cut the barrel pin notch? I assume the most important part is the breech face distance from the magwell feed ramp? Do you base all the other measurements (i.e. exact locations of areas where RSB and GB will be pressed onto?) off of the pin locating notch?

no the barrel was just "plain" and sleeved to fit the ID of the trunnion. I eyeballed the distance and figured what would be safe for a 9mm round to travel. Then I used the existing barrel pin hole as a guide for a mill to make a flat and then drilled.

you have to remember that mine is reworked on the idea of me wanting a HK style charging handle so that dictated where the gas block went.

where you getting the magwell?

that should be posted near the beginning of this thread.

[afroman006]

Making progress. After I got the rear trunnion in yesterday I just had to see what it was going to look like, and I dig it. I stole your idea for a front handguard doc :flipoff2: Oh yah, A2 stock will be replaced with VLTOR 6 pos.
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/rsharpe08/AK%20build/progress.jpg

[Gozuki]

So are you sending me any of this?

[Vermin]

I'm building one as well - PM'd Doc about it months ago - guess I should get some pics up. I'm building it as a rifle - and actually using the Suomi stock - it was so close to *almost* fitting the AK rear trunnion that I decided to make it fit. I have a real wood grip for it from Nodak. Magwell from Lichtenberg - Suomi drums. Suomi barrel was thrown in the lathe and turned down to a tiny bit over 3/4" - then I sleeved the whole thing in 1" DOM and rosette welded the barrel and sleeve - drilled out the super uber tactical flash suppressor look in the bridgeport. I'm using a HK-91 cocking tube and front triple frame (chopped and shortened of course). The rest of the details are yet to be worked out (I'm not going to bother finding an AK-74 bolt - so I may just play with those 'rings' spacer things for the 47 bolt). The rest should be cake..

[afroman006]

So are you sending me any of this?

Waiting on flash supressor then it will be on its way :D

[afroman006]

Well here's how she sits now. I've been having some binding issues between teh bolt and chamber. It seems like the bolt is offset to the side a little bit and is causing everything to bind up when a cartridge is chambered. The extractor has been a PITA but I think I finally got it. I was going to use the rail on the gas block to retain the option of mounting a BUIS there later, but it looks retarded so I'll probably ditch it.
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/rsharpe08/AK%20build/AK9.jpg

How deep is the pocket in the face of an uzi bolt? As you can see here, with the bullet seated all the way in the chamber and bolt head, there is an approximate 1/16" gap between the bolt and breech face. I am using a 47 bolt with a TIG'd in ring and a sleeved uzi barrel. Can I just use a normal straight reamer to lengthen the chamber a bit?
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/rsharpe08/AK%20build/AK9-2.jpg

[PONY_DRIVER]

Progress from the weekend.
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/rsharpe08/AK%20build/receiver2.jpg

Suomi mags?

[afroman006]

I'm building one as well - PM'd Doc about it months ago - guess I should get some pics up. I'm building it as a rifle - and actually using the Suomi stock - it was so close to *almost* fitting the AK rear trunnion that I decided to make it fit. I have a real wood grip for it from Nodak. Magwell from Lichtenberg - Suomi drums. Suomi barrel was thrown in the lathe and turned down to a tiny bit over 3/4" - then I sleeved the whole thing in 1" DOM and rosette welded the barrel and sleeve - drilled out the super uber tactical flash suppressor look in the bridgeport. I'm using a HK-91 cocking tube and front triple frame (chopped and shortened of course). The rest of the details are yet to be worked out (I'm not going to bother finding an AK-74 bolt - so I may just play with those 'rings' spacer things for the 47 bolt). The rest should be cake..

You ever build this? If so, pics?!?!?

[Vermin]

Yep - probably have some pics somewhere. I'll dig tonight.

[Vermin]

Even better - Lichtenberg seems to be making magwells again as 2 just showed up at my door yesterday. This is a big step for me .. and a little crazy .. but I will actually document the entire build of this one. Want me to do it in Doc's thread here or start a new one? Here is the start...

So happy Lichtenberg is doing these again...
http://www.abusivemotorsports.com/guns/SAK02.jpg

20 minutes into screwing around with a 80% receiver in the garage and I had the rough cuts for the magwell done --
http://www.abusivemotorsports.com/guns/SAK01.jpg

Decided to run down to my buddies shop to finish it up on the Bridgeport --
http://www.abusivemotorsports.com/guns/SAK03.jpg
http://www.abusivemotorsports.com/guns/SAK04.jpg

Suomi barrel after being turned down to .75" in the lathe -
http://www.abusivemotorsports.com/guns/SAK05.jpg

This is going to be a complete weld build - including some shit that shouldn't be welded. Should be fun.

[braxton357]

^Damn, that's making me want one now...


Doc, have you thought about taking that "muzzle device" off and building a permanent form 1 suppressor for it? I don't know how long your bbl is, but depending...throw some 147gr ammo in it and be spooky silent. :D

[afroman006]

Here's as far as I got on mine. I ended up welding the front and rear trunnions in as well as the magwell all around. After getting it all welded up I ended up warping the shit out of the receiver. The bolt face also does not line up with the chamber so it will not seat on a round. At this point it looks like I will have to cut it all apart and start over on the receiver. I havent touched it in month because what little free time I have right now is being used to work on a motor swap in the trail rig :(

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/rsharpe08/5.jpg

[Gozuki]

You still wheel? I might as well sell all my shit, and buy more guns...

[Vermin]

You still wheel? I might as well sell all my shit, and buy more guns...

Me? No - I just pretend - guns kinda put everything with wheels on hold. :D

[rockmup]

Any reason not to go PPSH ?

[afroman006]

Open bolt?

[usmcdoc14]

I do have a spare turned down barrel if someone else is interested in doing one

[afroman006]

I do have a spare turned down barrel if someone else is interested in doing one

Did you ever finish yours?!?!?!? :flipoff2::laughing:

[Gozuki]

I do have a spare turned down barrel if someone else is interested in doing one

Doc, pleeze answer your phone or pms...

[usmcdoc14]

Doc, pleeze answer your phone or pms...

I just got your message on my phone, as for PM's they are fucked from the number of people I have asking me gun shit and moderating. answering that PM now

[rockmup]

Any reason not to go PPSH ?

Open bolt?

I meant using the drums

[Vermin]

I meant using the drums

No reason not to use PPSH stuff - Lichtenberg has magwells for them now.

http://www.lichtenbergresearch.com/parts/2xtmmagwell/2xtmmagwell.html

[Vermin]

F'd around with the front trunnion and rear sight base today. Cut the trunnion all willy nilly and chopped the sight base totally flat.

http://www.abusivemotorsports.com/guns/SAK07.jpg

http://www.abusivemotorsports.com/guns/SAK08.jpg

[rockmup]

No reason not to use PPSH stuff - Lichtenberg has magwells for them now.

http://www.lichtenbergresearch.com/parts/2xtmmagwell/2xtmmagwell.html

Thats what made me ask. Ammo is friggin cheap

[Azzy2000]

After getting it all welded up I ended up warping the shit out of the receiver. The bolt face also does not line up with the chamber so it will not seat on a round. At this point it looks like I will have to cut it all apart and start over on the receiver.

How bad is it warped?

A little selective heating with a torch and quickly cooling with a damp rag may be able to put it back in line. When I say selective, I mean dime size or smaller spots heated to red hot and then cooled fairly quickly... you just have to know where to do it.

[usmcdoc14]

How bad is it warped?

A little selective heating with a torch and quickly cooling with a damp rag may be able to put it back in line. When I say selective, I mean dime size or smaller spots heated to red hot and then cooled fairly quickly... you just have to know where to do it.

I used the 20T press and some steel plates to straiten mine out :laughing:

[Azzy2000]

I used the 20T press and some steel plates to straiten mine out :laughing:

Whatever works :D

Looking back at the picture of afromans gun... It looks like the section forward of the magwell is bowed down quite a bit compared to the rear section. I'm guessing he had a decent gap between the magwell and reciever at the front before welding for it to pull down that much. Good, tight fitup and taking your time welding can prevent that.

[Vermin]

Was mostly painting shit today but zing'd the top rails into shape --

http://www.abusivemotorsports.com/guns/SAK09.jpg

[afroman006]

Whatever works :D

Looking back at the picture of afromans gun... It looks like the section forward of the magwell is bowed down quite a bit compared to the rear section. I'm guessing he had a decent gap between the magwell and reciever at the front before welding for it to pull down that much. Good, tight fitup and taking your time welding can prevent that.

That is exactly what happened. The fit could have been better and I deffinately went too fast welding it in. I suppose I can try pressing it flat before I go cutting it up but I am a little concerned about crushin the magwell, it might still be usable. I recently fixed a warped removable floor assembly I made for my trail truck using my hydraulic press and torch. I squished it down in the press then used the torch to heat the whole bitch up until it stopped creaking and then left it there in the press for 3 days. Worked prety damn well.

[Vermin]

Take pics if you decide to try and un-fuck it Afro - want to see before and after :D