The pictures aren't the best for some reason, I'm still trying to figure out my camera.

Its a d60 with 4.10's which were in the axle when I got it. I am having a hell of a time getting a good pattern. I have tried shimming the pinion from zero shims to the original thickness, and then thicker. I have been going by .003 to .005, but I just cannot get a good pattern.

Is it because the gears are used and already have wear on them? Or is setting gears just this difficult? By the way this is my first time, but I have a dial indicator and calipers and stuff...

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Apr/20024256796362000424172.jpg

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Apr/20024258209412030006723.jpg

Dan

pinion depth looks decent from your first pic. 2nd pic??? make sure when youre getting a pattern you have some sort of preload. like hold the ring while you turn the pinion so the gears are pushing on eachother. also your backlash is probably too high from your pattern but if youve got a dial indicator you should be able to get that. its kind of a 2 person job though if you arent used to it. someone to hold the setup and the other to actually check. good luck.

It's hard to say with the inconsistent pattern. Might be shallow on the pinion.
Trick: cut that marking grease with a little bit of gear oil. Put more drag on the carrier. I bet you'll get an easier to read pattern that way.

Looks to me like the pinion is to shallow... :flipoff2:

pinion looks shallow to me. I hold the pinion, and turn the ring gear with a wrench on the bolt. Post your backlash spec, and check in more than one spot. On used gears, which i hate, i try and match the wear pattern, as opposed to an ideal new pattern

Thanks for the replies...it sounds like I need to check the pattern differently...one question though, when you say the pinion is too "shallow" does that mean it needs more shim thickness or less? Does shallow mean too close to the ring gear?

Dan

Originally posted by dcmsu
Thanks for the replies...it sounds like I need to check the pattern differently...one question though, when you say the pinion is too "shallow" does that mean it needs more shim thickness or less? Does shallow mean too close to the ring gear?

Dan

Shallow means its to far away from the ring gear..... :D

Maybe some better pics and to redo the markings as the others have said....

Pics are confusing... the first time i did it on my 44 it took me 6 evenings with many attampts then it finally all maked sense.

What exactly are your doing (or have done) Did you put in a different carrier? It might help with the advice...

Check your bearings are they all seated on the pinion. I had some grit mess up a few of my shim readings...

The only way i caught this was buy using a note book with colums for each variable(shim) and noting everthing the changed as I adjusted 1 thing at a time. Took more trys than maybe someone with experience but i could see my results as i went and caught the dirty shims that threw off 2 readings...

oh ya read the instructions if you got them, i found randy's r&p instructions helpful to understand the markings then an idea on what to do next...

good luck
-yag

-yag

Ok heres the story, I bought this axle, dana60, with 4.10 gears and a trac lock already in it. I am keeping the 4.10's and installing a detroit locker. Here are two more pics after adding .005 to the pinion, and checking the pattern by using the oil/marking compound trick, as well as putting a load on the pinion while the ring gear was rotated.
To me it doesn't look much different than before...???

this is also a different spot on the ring gear...

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Apr/20024284075958466661801.jpg

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Apr/20024286684687888607323.jpg

Dan

looks like the pinion is still too shallow.. try some more shims.. you get good and yankin this bitch in and out huh?? :p how close are u pinion shim wise to what it was originally?? 2nd thing.. u haven't told us what your backlash is.. u can't get an accurate pinion depth reading unless your backlash is very close to or within specs.. finally, when working w/ used gears pay most attention to the coast side of the gears and not the drive side.. g'luck..

Right now the backlash is at .006...which is the lower end of what it should be. Would increasing the backlash help or hurt the situation? The pinion shims are fairly close to where it was originally...I basically put that amount in to begin with then added shims in .005 increments and it still looked wrong, so I subtracted shims in .005 or less increments, and thats where I am right now.
Definatly am getting good at pulling that carrier in and out though. This has been a real pain so far...if I get a good pattern its worth it though

Dan

changing backlash only effects pinion depth MARGINALLY.. now, i don't know dana 60 specs off hand and my book is at home.. but setting it up at the bottom end of the backlash specs (.006") is no better than setting it up at the top end of backlash specs (.011" or whatever it may be).. .006" is NOT any better than .011" if .011" is the high end of specs.. i shoot for the middle because that gives the maximum room for any error or adjustment.. adjusting backlash a bit may help, but it may not.. hard to say since i haven't been the one playing w/ your gears.. remember u got a whole new carrier so the pinion may need shims a lot more or less than what it was.. remember you're working in thousandths of inches.. that ain't much... keep being patient.. g'luck..

Don't mean to confuse this post but...

If he's just changing the carrier, still using the same housing and gears he shouldn't have to mess with the pinion depth. I always check the pattern to be sure, but the pinion to center of ring gear distance doesn't change (because it's the same gear and housing). Backlash (and carrier preload) are the only variables that are being changed from the original setup.

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Apr/20024256796362000424172.jpg

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Apr/20024258209412030006723.jpg

Just trying to be helpful. :flipoff2:

Use the img tag instead of the url one and voila!

Originally posted by watts
Don't mean to confuse this post but...

If he's just changing the carrier, still using the same housing and gears he shouldn't have to mess with the pinion depth. I always check the pattern to be sure, but the pinion to center of ring gear distance doesn't change (because it's the same gear and housing). Backlash (and carrier preload) are the only variables that are being changed from the original setup.

i don't agree.. it's the same gear and housing, yes, but it is a new carrier.. i don't think every carrier matches every other carrier to the .001".. basically what you're saying is we shouldn't need to adjust backlash either cause it's the same housing, with the same shims, and same gears.. i think when a carrier change is done it's an absolute must to reset everything to be sure.. i assume he checked pinion depth w/ the original shims and got a shit pattern.. but i don't know i'm not there w/ his gears.. i think carrier change and gear change are the only things that warrant setting up the gears again.. pulling gears to check them, weld them, install a lockright, or install a mini spool doesn't warrant setting up again, but that's because you've changed NOTHING that can effect either backlash or pinion depth.. better safe than *SNAP* sorry.. =[ =]

No, you don't need to reset the pinion when you change carriers. Think about it- The ring gear is going to get the same "center" off of the different carrier- the carrier will not cause the ring to be closer or further from the pinion. But it will affect the backlash and carrier bearing preload, and that's what needs to be adjusted. Not the pinion depth.

I understand what you're saying but I think it's a good idea to check pinion depth and not be afraid to change it w/ a new carrier.. even if only to account for bearing settling.. I will always check and reset if need be, you may not.. but i agree that the pinion should not have to be moved much w/ a new carrier.. but i don't trust it to the point where it never needs to be moved at all...

Originally posted by skyjackedtoy


i don't agree.. it's the same gear and housing, yes, but it is a new carrier.. i don't think every carrier matches every other carrier to the .001".. basically what you're saying is we shouldn't need to adjust backlash either cause it's the same housing, with the same shims, and same gears.. i think when a carrier change is done it's an absolute must to reset everything to be sure.. i assume he checked pinion depth w/ the original shims and got a shit pattern.. but i don't know i'm not there w/ his gears.. i think carrier change and gear change are the only things that warrant setting up the gears again.. pulling gears to check them, weld them, install a lockright, or install a mini spool doesn't warrant setting up again, but that's because you've changed NOTHING that can effect either backlash or pinion depth.. better safe than *SNAP* sorry.. =[ =]


No I didn't say you shouldn't need to check backlash, mfg tolerances can move that around quite a bit. The depth of the pinion gear to ring gear center does not change though no matter what carrier you are using, providing the carrier is not screwed up. (which I have seen before and is why I said I always check the pattern to be sure)

Thanks for keeping this near the top with all the replies...

My original logic behind the carrier swap was that I SHOULDN't have to change the pinion depth at all. Assuming the new carrier and the old carrier were identical, which they are not, the pattern would not change.

However, after playing with the gears a little (a lot really) I realized that you can't just put the new carrier in without at least checking the pattern and not being afraid to change the pinion depth.

Still, it seems as though the original shim thickness would have got the pattern closer than it was...maybe I will try setting the pinion to the original depth and setting the backlash accordingly and then posting a pic of it.

Dan

If you're replacing the pinion bearings, then checking the pinion depth (pattern) should be done as new bearings which have not "settled" might require .005 or so adjustment. That being said, they still often require minimal to no adjustment. If re-using the old bearings, then no change in the pinion depth should be needed with a carrier change given that the ring gear rotates around the same center regardless of the carrier used. Otherwise, your ring gear would rotate off center and you'd likely know it within 50 miles.

When used gears are being re-installed, it is more useful to match the prior pattern of wear especially on the coast side. Adjusting pinion depth to a new wear pattern now places the area of contact outside of the prior area of wear causing two "grooves" so to speak. This "could" lead to some vibes or early gear failure.

All that being said, I think it is important to check a pattern before beginning as well as when finished because not all gear installers practice the same "rocket science". If they match, there is little to be gained by messing with it especially if the gears are in an axle from the late '70s to early 80's. After all, they worked fine for 20+ years.

--Disclaimer-- The opinions expressed above soley represent my .02. When taken at face value they are worth little more than the white speck on top of a pile of chicken shit..

Doc

I have always had to add or subtract from the pinion. I am an unlucky SOB and it usually takes me forever to get the perfect pattern. I did set some gears up last night and got them on the third try! Too bad I was a retard and it took me two days to figure out that the pinion bearing and race were different and they werent seating correctly.

What I do to make setting up gears assload easier is to take the old pinion bearing and grind the inside down so you dont have to press it on. I used one of those little cylindrical grinding stones you stick in a drill and just ground inside the bearing until it would slip onto the pinion very tightly but not so tight it needed to be pressed on. Sears sells the little grinder stone things and it take about ten minutes of grinding. One more tip is to not pay any attention to what the piece of paper you get with the gears says if you are having trouble getting a good pattern. I jacked around for half a day doing what the instructions said to do when your pattern looks like this. Start out fresh with the stock shim and add or sub until it is perfect. If you don't get it within five tries one way or the other then go the other way. Make damn sure you have the backlash set right with no bearing preload too or you are wasting your time. I am by no means an expert but this is what I have learned from screwing up in the past.

I use a break hone to enlarge bearing.


Did you check back lash before removeing
original carier.

I have found this to be important
as I have found quite a few sets that
were slightly warped.

and if your pinion depth is off buy
over .010 it was probubly off before
you took it apart, which means
that buy putting it in the corect spot
you may cause more problems than if you leave it whear it was.

Well, unfortunatly I didn't check the pattern before I removed the old carrier and gears...now I know to do that next time though for sure. Should I reinstall the old stuff and check the pattern? I did do what you guys said about honing out the bearings and such. That works good, I can't imagine pressing on and off the bearings each time you need to change shims, mine would be destroyed thats for sure.

Dan