Anyone out there with Info on diesel engines and if there are any Defenders with Diesel and and automatic, or where to find it.
thanks
jebediah

Anyone out there with Info on diesel engines and if there are any Defenders with Diesel and and automatic, or where to find it.
thanks
jebediah

No factory auto. But there's a company in the UK which has done ZF conversions.

http://www.d-90.com/

A handful of guys in the US have converted theirs - not sure if anyone used an auto though.

Propably find more info with google then here.

"info on diesel engines" is an incrediably vague question. You want to know when they were invented?

Diesels have been factory installed engine in Rovers since the 1950s. Defenders have come with 2.5na, 2.5td, 200tdi, 300tdi and the td5. Looks like next year they will be using a Ford designed diesel and I read they are considering the new tdv6.
But just like the big three on this side of the pond, diesels in small non-comercial vehicles just don't seem to have enough public demand to convince Rover to offer them here.

People have put 4cyl Cummins, GM 6.2/6.5, Mercedes, Puegot,IH 2.8, and Nissan diesels into Defenders.
I know of a Defender with a 6.5td and 700r4 auto

i am just wondering which land rover diesel is the most reliable and easily attainable here in the US
j

I am currently in the same delima. However, I want to put a diesel in a 94 Disco maybe a 300 Tdi. Anybody know how hard it will be to house it? Cost?

Call Pendy ... I've seen them at his place.

KAA

200 or 300 tdi are both very good engines for offroad trucks. They are simple have virtually no electronics and are relatively easy to get from breakers in the UK. However they are not really legal for emmissions reasons, but I know of several in the states. You can put a ZF behind either but I don't know of anyone that has done it yet. Pendy has done several swaps and knows a great deal about both engines.

-ben

i am just wondering which land rover diesel is the most reliable and easily attainable here in the US
j

The LR diesel most easily obtainable in the US is the old 2.25L diesel. It was the ONLY LR diesel officially imported into the US. It is reliable, simple, but totally gutless.

Before you start importing diesels into the US be sure to check your state's regulations regarding swapping them into a late model vehicle. You would hate to spend a lot of money importing and installing one only to discover you need to move to a different state if you wish to drive it on the road.

With that out of the way:

LR imported 97 Defenders to the US with a slush box, and All the Defender diesels have been inline 4 bangers so it should not be too hard a combination to mate up. The South Africans keep complaining that the LR 4 bangers do not have the power for pushing a loaded 110 through the bush. The Brits seem to always complain about the TD5's lack of reliability. The 2.5 turbo diesel evidently is reasonably strong except it has a tendency to burn up turbos. But I hear that's fixable. The 2000TDi was only used a couple years & parts are supposed to be getting harder to find. There seem to be a few versions of the 300tdi and I keep hearing mixed reviews.

If you have money to spend you might look to Australia. Aussie spec Discos have had the TD6 for a couple years and LR has introduced a six speed auto transmission (and a twin turbo V8 diesel) for 2007. The TD6 is a V6 that has both good power and fuel efficiency. A TD6 and six speed transmission might be about the sweetest drive train that you could drop into a Defender.

The new TD8 is based upon the V6 diesel and is supposed to meet all the new US diesel regulations. I think Ford will watch Chrysler for a year or two to see how sales of their diesel engines in the US go then make the decision about bringing the TD8 into the US. I would not be surprised to see it show up in Ford trucks first. It might anchor their light weight truck diesel offerings. If it shows up in a LR product it will likely be the LR2 or a Defender. But once it is in the US it will be fair game for swaps.

I'd also keep an eye on the new Mercedes V6 diesel if they bring it to the US. It might also be a good engine for a swap.

Americans have been faced with with a dismal choice of diesels to power a 5-6000 pound 4X4. There's the big lumbering V8 diesels that get poor (for what I expect out of a diesel) fuel mileage. They are large and weigh nearly twice what the LR petrol engines weigh. There are the crop of 2.5L or smaller inline fours that produce almost enough power when the turbo is cranked up, and there is a host of heavy powerful truck diesels that puts more weight on the front springs than 1 ton springs are speced for cross country and are governed for under 3000 RPM. Your best bet seems to be the Cumins 6AT or for light weight D90s the Nissan LD28. Both engines are long inline sixes.


We seem to be on the verge of some really nice diesel engines that are high revving, lighter weight than their predecessors, produce the right power for our trucks and get decent fuel mileage. I think that in 2 or 3 years down the line we are likely to see some very good engines that would make good diesel engine choices available in the States.

If money were no object, I would run out and repower with a TD6 and the new LR 6 gear manual gearbox. I think I could be happy with that. :)

There is a Tdi/Auto 110 in the local club. Take into consideration the power needed to run the torque converter and the already relatively low power output of these engines. The guy seems happy with it and drives it a lot though.

I've never seen a factory diesel with auto box here in the UK, but there might be?

I've had 110's with 200, 300 Tdi and Td5 engines, fully loaded workhorses that were abused ( by me ) and my favourite engine is the old 200Tdi.

The 300 was faster, but only just and it needed revs all the time. The 200 pulled like a train from low revs. It was also more reliable. Don't get me started on the Td5 ! That was junk..................

The Range Rover was fitted for a time with the VM diesel 2500cc engine, and autos were fitted to many of those.
That's the engine in the Jeep Cherokee as well, or at least it has been over here, so maybe that that would be an option, although that isn't the best engine in the world either.

Diesel conversions over here are generally Isuzu 2.8 or 3.0 litre or Daihatsu 2.8 litre, all are turbo intercooled.
Conversion plates are available from Milner Conversions amongst others.

I have a Daihatsu Fourtrack ( Rocky ) with the 2.8 Turbo engine and it's a superb engine, pulls well and very strong and reliable. On a long hill close to where I live I regularly pass 300Tdi and Td5 Disco's with ease.
But these engines are probably hard to find in the US.

Dave

Diesels have been factory installed engine in Rovers since the 1950s. Defenders have come with 2.5na, 2.5td, 200tdi, 300tdi and the td5.

You forgot the best one - ISUZU 4BD1, 3.9L turbo and non turbo. Only a factory option in OZ though. These engines are more available than LR diesels in the US - they were fitted to all the ISUZU/CHEV/GMC box trucks. Can also be fitted with an auto.

www.isuzudieselswapper.com

I've installed the 300 Tdi and the 2.8 powerstroke both with the 300 tdi specific ZF as well as the converted V8 ZF. It works ok but saps a huge amount of power,especially in a heavy discovery. I try to steer people toward switching to a 5 speed.

You forgot the best one - ISUZU 4BD1, 3.9L turbo and non turbo. Only a factory option in OZ though. These engines are more available than LR diesels in the US - they were fitted to all the ISUZU/CHEV/GMC box trucks. Can also be fitted with an auto.

www.isuzudieselswapper.com

Contrary to the postings on several webpages, these engines rev to 3600rpm. I keep hearing mutterings about 3000rpm, but that ain't right.

My RRC with one revs out at about 145km/h and can spit gravel from four wheels in high ratio third.

Contrary to the postings on several webpages, these engines rev to 3600rpm. I keep hearing mutterings about 3000rpm, but that ain't right.

My RRC with one revs out at about 145km/h and can spit gravel from four wheels in high ratio third.

Dougal - AFAIK the different engines had different governors, with different max revs. The stationary versions were usually governed at 3000 - probably where the myth comes from. To try mine out I once took it to the governor in 3rd (LT85) and was doing about 100km/h. That is revving enough for me. I think it did 140km/h when it hit the in 4th.

I think the ones fitted to OZ Land Rovers were governed at 3400rpm.

I've installed (...) the 2.8 powerstroke both with the 300 tdi specific ZF as well as the converted V8 ZF. It works ok but (...)I try to steer people toward switching to a 5 speed

Hi Matt*,
do you find the manual 'box up to the engine in the end?
Rumours from Brit mates is that the 2.8 eats manuals when used heavily,
while autos are much better up to the job instead.

Just out of curiosity,
as,while most of the Defender owners are impatient to see/get hold of the new Ford-powered model,others (like me) would love to throw a PS under the bonnet when their 300s will be worn...but $$$$...



*any new with the website?

A lot of the UK folk here have diesel auto's. I've got a ZF HP22 sat in the garage waiting for me to fit it into my 300Tdi 90. although i'm also saving (very very slowly) for a 2.8

Michele is right, the 2.8 does eat unhealthy R380's, although a company called Rakeway (http://www.rakeway.com/gearbox's.htm) make a very beefy gearbox. spendy though!!

Best (cheapest) way to get the auto combination, is try and source a 300Tdi discovery auto. that way you get everything, the engine (drive by wire injectopn pump, so unless you want to keep it, you'll need a different pump or someone who can rebuild it with a control arm), gearbox, oil cooler, brackets etc etc.

I don't know much about them but I'm currently in Austria visiting my mother and my cousin gave me his '78 D90 which is a diesel and while they're a blast to drive, it does top out at 90-100kmh. Finding gears is kind of a crap shoot but one gets better at it after the third or fouth time you try to hit a gear and totally miss it, I actually have to use markers on the dash for reverse and to locate 1st and 3rd. Funny thing is we went wheelin yesterday and over here they could care less about cutting through meadow's, crossing creeks and blasing new trails, I just wish I had a camera with me, you guy's would be in absolute shock to see what we did to get to where we wanted to go. To bad they don't have greenies over here, they would all die of heart attacks seeing what we did in just a couple hours :eek: . We're going again later today :laughing: .

Prost...

-keith

I'm currently in Austria visiting my mother and my cousin gave me his '78 D90

Sorry to be pedantic, but no such thing as a '78 D90. "D" stands for Defender, and the first defenders were made in 1990/91. A '78 model (unless retrofitted with something newer) would be a 2.25 Diesel Series 3 88", which is a VERY different animal to the new generation of turbodiesels. So really no comparison.

A lot of the UK folk here have diesel auto's. I've got a ZF HP22 sat in the garage waiting for me to fit it into my 300Tdi 90. although i'm also saving (very very slowly) for a 2.8

Michele is right, the 2.8 does eat unhealthy R380's, although a company called Rakeway (http://www.rakeway.com/gearbox's.htm) make a very beefy gearbox. spendy though!!

Best (cheapest) way to get the auto combination, is try and source a 300Tdi discovery auto. that way you get everything, the engine (drive by wire injectopn pump, so unless you want to keep it, you'll need a different pump or someone who can rebuild it with a control arm), gearbox, oil cooler, brackets etc etc.

I've had the good fortune to drive a diesel Defender (thanx Tony!!!), a diesel series truck (thanx Simon!!!) and have ridden in a few others. I don't really see the attraction other than fuel economy-although I do think Simon's truck could be used to move planets.

I get phone calls from folks all the time wanting an idea of $ and time to do a conversion. In spite of having found many complete 300s in the UK for what I considered reasonable pricing, no one has ever come back to have the job done...

I've had the good fortune to drive a diesel Defender (thanx Tony!!!), a diesel series truck (thanx Simon!!!) and have ridden in a few others. I don't really see the attraction other than fuel economy-although I do think Simon's truck could be used to move planets.


Come over to OZ and you can drive a Rangie or 110 with a 4L turbo diesel. That might change your mind. Or a chipped TD5.

Sorry to be pedantic, but no such thing as a '78 D90. "D" stands for Defender, and the first defenders were made in 1990/91. A '78 model (unless retrofitted with something newer) would be a 2.25 Diesel Series 3 88", which is a VERY different animal to the new generation of turbodiesels. So really no comparison.

Thanks for the clarification. Like I said, I don't know squat about them, they look similar so I just assumed that's what it was. My cousin just calls it a Land Rover and it's really fun to drive, hard to stop and one feels like one should get out a give it a push to get it going...:D . Regardless, I've become a big fan and I would own one in a second given the chance.

Fueled and boosted a bit and the 300tdi is snappy indeed (in my big heavy truck). I will admit I am a little short geared atm (7+ ratio in the axles/1.4 high range box/42" tires). But when it was a bit better (4.75's/38's) it was still pretty darn snappy to drive around. I would easily hold 75 on the highway on 38" SX's.

Bill

I've got a ZF HP22 sat in the garage waiting for me to fit it into my 300Tdi 90

Some people just have everything,uh?
Hello mate :)
(yet to fit your switch...D'OH!!)

I spent an afternoon wheeling with a guy and his '95 Disco with a GMC 6.2 diesel conversion. I was pretty impressed with the rig. It was mated to the ZF autobox and had a torque converter built by Samuri Conversions in the UK. It fit in the engine bay well even though it is a large motor but is only about 70lbs heaver than than the 300tdi from what I was told. Everything worked like it should...A/C etc. No cooling issues either and we were running up and down mountains in WVA.

Thanks for the clarification. Like I said, I don't know squat about them, they look similar so I just assumed that's what it was. My cousin just calls it a Land Rover and it's really fun to drive, hard to stop and one feels like one should get out a give it a push to get it going...:D . Regardless, I've become a big fan and I would own one in a second given the chance.

Well if you want one, bring that one back with you, beacuse they are hard to find for a reasonable price in the US.

Well if you want one, bring that one back with you, beacuse they are hard to find for a reasonable price in the US.

I've got one for sale! '78 109, LHD.

Some people just have everything,uh?
Hello mate :)
(yet to fit your switch...D'OH!!)


It's been in my garage for 6 months! i got it from Simon Pearson on the LR4x4 forum.... i just need time to get it fitted! :shaking:

I've had the good fortune to drive a diesel Defender (thanx Tony!!!), a diesel series truck (thanx Simon!!!) and have ridden in a few others. I don't really see the attraction other than fuel economy-although I do think Simon's truck could be used to move planets.

Uhm...a torque band that starts just off idle?

I am incrediably happy with the diesel swap and wouldn't ever consider going back to a petrol engine.

Uhm...a torque band that starts just off idle?

I am incrediably happy with the diesel swap and wouldn't ever consider going back to a petrol engine.

Same here.
Low range is relegated to being a splitter box for those in-between gears.

I am incrediably happy with the diesel swap and wouldn't ever consider going back to a petrol engine.

Me Three. The other benefits include:

No Lucas Electrics (on the engine)
No problems with water, electrics, plugs, leads, AFM, ECU etc...
Great fuel consumption
Simplicity and ease of servicing, maintenance
Did I mention no electrics?

And best of all, that great tractor sound!!! :D

I don't know much about them but I'm currently in Austria visiting my mother and my cousin gave me his '78 D90 which is a diesel and while they're a blast to drive, it does top out at 90-100kmh. Finding gears is kind of a crap shoot but one gets better at it after the third or fouth time you try to hit a gear and totally miss it, I actually have to use markers on the dash for reverse and to locate 1st and 3rd. Funny thing is we went wheelin yesterday and over here they could care less about cutting through meadow's, crossing creeks and blasing new trails, I just wish I had a camera with me, you guy's would be in absolute shock to see what we did to get to where we wanted to go. To bad they don't have greenies over here, they would all die of heart attacks seeing what we did in just a couple hours :eek: . We're going again later today :laughing: .

Prost...

-keith


Hi Keith,

where in Austria are you?
You don't really think we don't have greenies here, poeple are quite conscious regarding environment, for example off roading is general forbidden.
Whatever you did must have been on private land with owners permission or you have been extremely lucky not getting caught.
Topspeed of 100 km/hr indicates a natural aspirated 2.5 diesel (around 67 hp).
I can offer a comparison in a 110 200 tdi (slightly tweaked) if you are coming near Salzburg (and a beer of course :) ).

Prost
Peter

Sorry to backtrack a page ...I've been out wheelin' for a few days and obviously missed some engaging banter.

Michele is right, the 2.8 does eat unhealthy R380's [QUOTE]

yup....the 2.8 will eat an "unhealthy" R-380 when used heavily, but so will a V8, so I must be missing the point.

If you want to run an autobox with the 2.8 you will need to build a "special" converted V8 HP 22 as the 300Tdi version is not up to the task either.

[QUOTE] Best (cheapest) way to get the auto combination, is try and source a 300Tdi discovery auto. that way you get everything, the engine (drive by wire injectopn pump, so unless you want to keep it, you'll need a different pump or someone who can rebuild it with a control arm), gearbox, oil cooler, brackets etc etc.

The discovery 300 Tdi Auto, compared to the same motor with a manual transmission is a dog......just my opinion after installing and driving both.

Also if you have to get a 300 Tdi auto, they are available without the "fly by wire" (earlier model year) 'cause the cost of changing the injection pump is not the "best (cheapest)" way to go.



Michele; no plans for the web site yet as I'm too busy flinging motors around to even think about having time to mess with that. I'd rather wheel (thats what it's all about ...right).
Was thinking about a slide show ....sort of a tease....:flipoff2:

Anyone out there with Info on diesel engines and if there are any Defenders with Diesel and and automatic, or where to find it.
thanks
jebediah

Search. So many discussions and resources out there. As has been said, check your local laws on converting your rig to diesel. Some states don't allow you to disable the OBDII system in '96 and newer vehicles, which you will do if you install a diesel. However, the gray area is that most states don't emission check a passenger (non commercial) diesel car. Therefore, they do not require hooking up to the OBDII system and only require a safety inspection. The dark world of rules and regulations abounds.

Auto and tdi, especially 2.8 and ZF auto have been done and refined. Thanks to the two fellows who frequent this board, I have a strong, fast running, and reliable 2.8 and ZF setup. I've been running it for 2.5 years and with some recent mods, it's only gotten better as far as ride, speed, cooling and feel. But has taken time, $$ and collective trial and error to get there.

The discussion point here is why do you want an auto and tdi? With the auto, you inevitably get less mpg out of the tdi. You will also never have a completely smooth shifting auto. Really, what are your expectations out of doing this type fo swap?

yup....the 2.8 will eat an "unhealthy" R-380 when used heavily, but so will a V8, so I must be missing the point

This is 'cos you're used to V8s over there
:D
while they're rather non-existent here.

Michele; no plans for the web site (...)thinking about a slide show ....sort of a tease....:flipoff2:
Yeah,just curious to see some fresh photos of the sl@t.
:smokin:

This is 'cos you're used to V8s over there
:D
while they're rather non-existent here.


Yeah,just curious to see some fresh photos of the sl@t.
:smokin:

you can get some fresh photos of the swamp butt from last weekend here: http://www.jamilabbasy.com/galleries/adventures/wema_2006/

Thanks for the link!

http://www.jamilabbasy.com/galleries/adventures/wema_2006/_w5w3939_std.jpg

Brilliant!
:D

Hi Keith,

where in Austria are you?
You don't really think we don't have greenies here, poeple are quite conscious regarding environment, for example off roading is general forbidden.
Whatever you did must have been on private land with owners permission or you have been extremely lucky not getting caught.
Topspeed of 100 km/hr indicates a natural aspirated 2.5 diesel (around 67 hp).
I can offer a comparison in a 110 200 tdi (slightly tweaked) if you are coming near Salzburg (and a beer of course :) ).

Prost
PeterHello Peter,

I'm actually in Graz where some immediate and most of my extended family resides, the others are in Vienna and a few in Salzburg too but they are slowing passing away with time. If I were here on vacation I would come and meet you because I love the Salzburg area (Munich too) unfortunately I'm here visiting my mother in the hospital who suffered a massive stroke so it's not been a very fun experience. I'm sure there are greenies here to and we did get into a little bit of trouble because we were on private land but we quickly made amends with the farmer by offering to come in a drink a few beers and schnapps with him so all ended well. I'm trying to teach my cousin trail etiquette but he just looks at me like I'm nuts, he'll learn in time.

Take care and now I know who to look up next time I'm passing through town.

-keith

[QUOTE=dmarch
Auto and tdi, especially 2.8 and ZF auto have been done and refined. Thanks to the two fellows who frequent this board, I have a strong, fast running, and reliable 2.8 and ZF setup. I've been running it for 2.5 years and with some recent mods, it's only gotten better as far as ride, speed, cooling and feel. But has taken time, $$ and collective trial and error to get there.
[/QUOTE]


Yo Pendy.....I gather that this means Dave is happy and we managed to fumble through it all while rolling in Rover $$....hehehe :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

(just kidding Dave....glad it's working better)

now ...if I can just remember what I did with my shop and what the f$$$k I'm suposed to be doing when I find it..............

For the love of god, just wash those coveralls. They stink.

Leave them on. I am not sure he has anything on underneath them.

JP