** '03 PreRunner --> 4x4 SAS! **

[Revivalist]

** Edited to show "before" and "after" pics . . .

Well, I decided to overhaul my 2003 Tacoma PreRunner and turn it into a rig that can perform a little better off-road. Here’s the plan in a nutshell:

IFS --> Solid axle (with front e-locker)
2WD --> 4WD
No T-case --> Dual T-cases
4.11 gears in back --> 5.29 gears front and back
Stock height --> 5” spring lift
Stock wheels --> 37” MT/Rs
No armor --> Sliders, bumpers, and a winch!

Here’s some pics of the stock rig I picked up in June 06. . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/01-Truck%20pics/01-Stock%20truck/02-ToyotaTacoma3.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/01-Truck%20pics/01-Stock%20truck/05-ToyotaTacoma6.jpg


And here's some pics of the rig in July 08 . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/01-Truck%20pics/07-Current%20setup/Driveway15.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/Tube%20doors/tubedoors2.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/02-Off-Road%20Trips/12-Dusy%20Ershim%208-07/Dusy-Ershim8-0773.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/02-Off-Road%20Trips/12-Dusy%20Ershim%208-07/Dusy-Ershim8-0774.jpg


As for the rest of the story on how this happened, . . . here it goes . . .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I’ve done lots and lots of research to figure out what the best options are. So far, here are the parts I already have . . .

1. Custom IFS Eliminator Kit from Trail Gear

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS%20and%204WD%20conversion/SASParts2.jpg

It’s “custom” because some of the components were removed that won’t work with my 03 Tacoma sine the whole kit is made for a 79-85 Pickup or 4Runner. The parts I got are the following:

• 5" Springs – Front
• Front Spring Hanger
• Shackles Front Offset 5"
• Steering Stabilizer Kit
• Shock Hoops, 14"
• Bilstein 5125 14" Shocks
• Bumpstop Extensions
• Bumpstops
• Motor Mount Plates

2. Rear Lift Kit from Trail Gear

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS%20and%204WD%20conversion/SASParts1.jpg

• 5" Springs – Rear
• Welded Spring Hangers
• Rear Shackle Mounts
• Shackles Rear Wide 5"
• Bilstein 5125 12" Shocks
• Lower Shock Mounts
• U-bolt Flip Kit Rear
• Brake Line, Individual Rear F-M
• Three Hole Spring Perches
• Greasable Spring Bolts & Bushings

------------------------------------------------

Ok, so here are the parts that I know I still need to obtain:

-- For 4WD Conversion --
• 4x4 Transmission
• Stock T-case
• Second T-case
• T-case mount
• Dual transfer case crossmember
• Floor shift plate
• 4WD shifter boots (exterior and interior)
• Interior plastics
• Speed sensor (if 4WD transmission doesn’t come with one)

-- For SAS --
• Front Axle (FJ80)
• Hub assembly (if it doesn’t come with axle) (new or junkyard)
• New brakes and caliper (if the ones on axle can’t be used)
• Studs for wheel mount
• 5.29 gears (front and back)
• E-Locker
• Rear drive shaft
• Front drive shaft (brand new, lengthened 10” spline, balanced): $260 (Bentup.com)
• 37” mud terrain tires (that fit 16x8 rims)


I’ll be doing getting the work done this weekend with AJ from bentup.com. We already found an FJ80 full assembly, however the seller wanted $1100 for it. Is that a reasonable price? . . . . Also, we still need to figure out what we need to do for steering drag links on it.

Thanks for any tips or suggestions from anyone! :)

[rockota]

Lots of pics, please. I'm very curious to see how that 29" on center spring width works out on the shackle end...

[ovrrdrive]

Wow that takes balls... Gonna be a great project though. Keep the pics coming. ;)

[GA86yota]

damn...thats all i got to say..but keep the pics coming

[Bones]

Going with a manual or auto tranny? Did you consider keeping what you have and divorcing an Atlas off the back?

Damn I would like to do something like this to mine, but never will have the balls or the $$ to.

BTW, the truck as it is looks great IMO and I would consider purchasing the lift you have now if the price is right.

Good luck :beer:

[Revivalist]

Thanks guys! . . . Yes, I will definitely take as many pics as I can. AJ at bentup.com is super-cool. He said it would be fine to take pics through the process and even get my hands dirty a bit.

@ Bones - I was thinking I would keep the tranny auto since that's what it is right now. (Plus, I heard that changing it could cause some issues with smog testing for some reason.) . . .

Yes, it was suggested to me by a local guy to possibly run the divorced Atlas on the back but when we called in it turned out that they don't have the appropriate adaptor. So I pretty much have to swap the tranny. . . .

I'm definitely going to be selling the current lift on it. Look me up again once my IFS is chopped off. :D

[Pietro]

I wonder if you can still keep your tranny the way it is and just change the output shaft around

Your trans is very similar to the one used in a Jeep XJ, the AW4. The back half looks identical when you remove the tailhousing adapter on either trans.

Maybe someone knows a way to put a different output shaft in yours and then just use the jeep trans to tcase adapter, that way you can bolt the atlas right up to it. Novak-adapters maybe:confused:

Good luck on the build

[Bones]

Keep me posted is all. I may or may not want to mess with it. Mine has 3.90's I think and 33's would kill it on the highway is all.

[pr0ject42]

Yo dood, is that a V6 or an I4?

If it is a V6, get yourself a bellhousing from an 88-95 V6 R150 and get an R151 tranny, then slap the typical 23 spline dual t-cases in there and you're done! That will put your T-case output on the right side (passenger side) to do the FJ-80 axle you want.

If it is an I4, just get an R151 and the bellhousing on it will mate up to your engine. Or I guess if you're on the cheap, get any W56 out of an 84-95 I4 and you can do a 21 spline dual case setup..

Speaking of, what are your plans for high-steer on that axle?

You're going to have a dope truck! You plan on putting the same bling rims on it as the bent up truck?

[Revivalist]

Hey, thanks for the great info! . . .

I’ve got the V6. . . Are you suggesting picking up the bell housing and tranny separate? I thought they would basically come together. . . . Also, as far as running dual cases, are you talking about running dual stock cases? . . . I figured that if I run dual cases then I might as get a Marlin Crawler so I can get some really low gears. . . .

For steering, I heard that I can just use the tie rods and steering arms that are already on the FJ80. I also have the IFS Steering Box 86-88, drilled and tapped for hydro assisted steering. . . . The only thing I need to figure out is the drag links. Any ideas? . . .

Thanks again for the help!

[rockota]

If you want to go 5-speed, I agree with finding the 151 if you can. You'll need the early 150 bellhousing to make it work, not the 151, since you have the V6. Likely the better bet is the 150 from a Tacoma, then a Marlin 150-4cyl tcase adapter followed by either a second 4-cyl tcase if you choose the FJ80 axle or a taco-tcase if you go another route.

Personally, and this is just me, I'd skip the Fj80 axle and go Diamond housing or Dana 44. Prices are very similar and you'll have an easier time with the steering on the Diamond or Dana 44.

[Bones]

Personally, and this is just me, I'd skip the Fj80 axle and go Diamond housing or Dana 44. Prices are very similar and you'll have an easier time with the steering on the Diamond or Dana 44.
I do agree. Diamond if you have the 3rd, longs and all that jazz. Wash if you are starting from scratch (Toy vs. D44). Steering on an FJ axle is a lot different and aftermarket support is little and $$.

[Revivalist]

Well, the reason I wanted to go with the FJ80 is because it's a 30 spline so it already has the strength to run 37" wheels without having to put down another $1000 in birfields, outer shafts, etc. . .

The FJ80 can also run the e-locker which saves me another $300-$400 setting up an ARB. And unlike the ARB, if the activating mechanism ever fails, you can just pull off the little shield on the diff and lock it with a screwdriver. With the ARB, if something happens to the hose, compressor, etc. . .. then no more locking. :shaking:

Lastly, I like the idea of getting the high pinion diff (1991+) for a better drive line angle. . . .

[Bones]

You can run an elocker in a regular toyota housing. I'd still rather have an ARB

[rockota]

You can run an elocker in a regular toyota housing. I'd still rather have an ARB

Or a diamond housing. I see the point about the HP, but the rest of the comments, IMHO, don't fit. Keep in mind that those 80 axles are full time, so you'll likely want to replace those birfs anyway, which are much more spendy than regular mini truck birfs. And I'm still not sure how you're going tomake the steering work effectively; the steering arms are under the knuckles w/ the tie rod in the back relatively low. You can get around this with (as mentioned) OTT arms, but I'm not sure they are still made or if OTT will machine your knuckles to work. The overall point being, don't rule out an easier/cheaper/stronger solution. Call Brian @ Diamond; I'm sure he'll have some great info. Or talk to the folks at Bent-up as well about their recommended solutions. Since you want to keep the budget low, there might be other options.

Either way, I'm really looking forward to this build!!!

[pr0ject42]

Yeah dood, I'm going to third the opinions here. I've got an FJ-80 axle in my garage and I'm really hung on what to do with it (except sell it to one of you monkeys here :flipoff2: )

Get a diamond housing at the width you want set up to take a HP E-locker and use mini knuckles. I'm betting cost-wise it will all come out as a wash as FJ-80 e-locker axles aren't cheap to begin with. Currently there isn't a company that offers a high steer option for the FJ-80 axle. I think Slee offroad might be working on something but OTT quit doing their solution. If you left it as is, you would have to booty-fab up a Z draglink. No thanks.

Also, what I was saying about the bellhousing and trannys is that you might have to buy the tranny, take the bellhousing off and use it, or a bone yard might just sell the bellhousing. Search on car-part.com and call around. IF you are going to go the R-151 route (turbo 5 speed from 86-87 pickup) you will HAVE to get the bellhousing from an 88-95 V6 truck or 4runner (that was mated to a 3.0L V6) because if you get one from a 3.4L V6, the bellhousing is going to be too deep for the input shaft on the R151.

Then get your Marlin stuff and be stoaked! Good luck homes, I hope you've got good credit :D

[Revivalist]

You guys have some very good points, especially about the steering and the overall cost. . . . I'll ask Marlin and Aj if they recommend that I change the plan around. The only thing that's committing me to the FJ-80 at this point is that Marlin was gonna setup the Dual Ultimate Crawler with passenger side drive line and get it to me by the end of the day. We'll have to change that to driver side if we revert back to a Dana (or I assume for a Diamond also). . . .

Thanks for the input guys! . . . This is exactly what I needed!

Oh yeah, and as for the tranny . . . . Marlin already helped me to hunt down a 3.4L V6 Auto from a 2000 4Runner. As I heard before, he mentioned that going to a manual will cause problems with smog.

[rockota]

Keep in mind that you can still go dual cases/marlin ultimate w/ the driver's side drop as well. Diamond can make whatever housing you need, so if you want to go pass-side drop, Brian can do that.

[Bones]

You can get a dana passenger side drop, and a Diamond is custom, get it where ever you want the 3rd.

I honestly think you need to do a lot more reserch before spending $$ and having people chop into your rig and building you cases.

[Revivalist]

Well, running a driver's side drop would actually be easier because I can be sure not to have issues with the exhaust. With the FJ-80 I may have to reroute the exhaust a bit because it's on the passenger side . . . So if I went with a custom axle then I'd rather just go driver side and ask Marlin to do a left side Ultimate Crawler . . .

Yes, I agree plenty of research has to happen before doing a project like this. I have actually done as much as I can from searching all the forums. Now I'm just working out the details by asking questions on all the forums. Plus, I know that Marlin and Aj are the best out there. . . . So I trust that they'll help steer me right. I think it's really a matter of personal choices at this point. We know what will work and what won't. The question is only what will be the most cost effective.

[Bones]

The question is only what will be the most cost effective.
Stop this project now then :laughing: :flipoff2:

[rockota]

Stop this project now then :laughing: :flipoff2:

That's just mean.... true, but mean... :D

[MT4Runner]

I have actually done as much as I can from searching all the forums. ....The question is only what will be the most cost effective.

You're not done researching until you can build the entire thing in your head. If you can build the entire thing in your head, then you have no more questions.

You bet, Marlin won't steer you wrong, but you're wasting your money and his time if you change your mind later.

I'm with Bones. If you're still trying to decide what is most cost-effective, stop spending money IMMEDIATELY!!

[Revivalist]

Thank you for the suggestion guys. . . . I respect that some of you may have a difference in opinion. I hope it's not offensive to you, but after addressing the issues you brought up with Marlin and Aj, I concluded that we can still go forward with this project . . . Basically, here are the pros and cons of a Dana44 versus an FJ80 . . .

Pros of Dana44
-- Easily found, usually cheaper, and can be upgraded with chromoly shafts/birfields . . .
-- Left hand drive line to avoid exhaust
-- Steering can be more easily setup

Pros of FJ-80
-- High pinion diff (without custom work)
-- E-locker can be used (cheapest manually engaged solution)
-- 5.29 gears can be used front and back (instead of 5.13 in front for Dana)
-- Stronger stock axle (30 spline) so no upgrade needed
-- I already have one ready to go coming right off the cruiser, hub to hub
-- "Coolness factor":: most SASs on Tacos have Danas. It's nice to have something different. :D

Basically, it's still very possible to set it up, and at the end of the day, it's not really going to be more costly. So we're still going to go that way. . . .

[Revivalist]

So yesteday I had a great time at Marlin Crawler getting the tranny and Crawler. . . It's amazing how incredibly helpful and friendly Marlin is! . . . . He found a tranny that we expect should do the job. It's a 4x4 V6 Auto off a 2000 4Runner with 50,000 miles. . . . After lots of inspection at TAP, it seemed that it should work. (Of course, we'll only know for sure once it's in. . . .)

Here's Marlin getting the tail housing preped up for the Crawler . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/VisitingMarlinCrawler4.jpg

He serviced the tranny right in the back of my truck. . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/VisitingMarlinCrawler6.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/VisitingMarlinCrawler9.jpg

Meanwhile, Rocky getting the Dual Ultimate Crawler ready . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/VisitingMarlinCrawler1.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/VisitingMarlinCrawler2.jpg

And here's me stouting my new toy!

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/VisitingMarlinCrawler5.jpg

In addition, I picked up the following:
• T-case mounts (2)
• Dual transfer case crossmember
• Twin stick shifter
• Speed sensor kit

I also ran by the Toyota dealer and picked up a T100 2WD oil pan, strainer, and gasket which give better clearance for the front driveline. . . .I'll add more pics of this stuff later. . . .

[CrawlTech]

You need to buy my geared FJ80 axle and spares:smokin:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=502165

[og_karnage]

damn bro you arent playing around are you? Build up is looking good! Keep up the pics

[]4RunnerKid[]

nice man. looks like you're doing it right the first time. glad to see that. :smokin:

[Bones]

You go with a geared case as well? Should be super overkill with you keeping the auto. Good luck brakeing...not breaking ;)

[Revivalist]

You go with a geared case as well? Should be super overkill with you keeping the auto. Good luck brakeing...not breaking ;)I just took Marlin's advice. :confused:

[Revivalist]

Well, we made a lot progress yesterday on the SAS and 4WD conversion. I hauled the parts up to Sacramento and met up with Aj to start on the work. Here’s some pics from the day’s work. . . .

Aj sorting through the parts . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS1.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS2.jpg


First we dropped the skid plates, bumper, and crush zone . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS3.jpg


Next came all the wheels, all the shocks, the upper and lower arms, the rack n’ pinion, the rear leaf packs, U-bolts, and bump stops . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS5.jpg


After that, Aj measured and cut a front crossmember support to strengthen the front of the frame. It was welded on just in front of the bottom of the radiator . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS6.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS10.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS20.jpg

[Revivalist]

Next it was time to cut off the IFS mounts on the frame. The plasma cutter made that a quick job . . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS23.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS25.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS27.jpg


First one down . . .on to the second one behind it. . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS29.jpg


Hammering off the second . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS31.jpg


Next was torching off the remains of the IFS mounting area . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS35.jpg


The oxygen tank ran out so we couldn’t finish torching and go on to the grinding. It’ll have to be done later . . .. So we went on to remove the tranny. . . First we dropped the drive shaft and then Aj loosened up the tranny bolts. It was a lot easier getting to the bolts on top because of the 3” body lift. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS42.jpg

[Revivalist]

We strapped the tranny to the tranny-lift and I stepped back to take another pic . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS45.jpg


After lifting the tranny off the jack, we set it down next to the 4x4 tranny and swapped some of the wiring. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS48.jpg


One of the plugs was actually mounted from inside the trannys so we had to pull off the oil pans to swap them . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS50.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS51.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS52.jpg

[Revivalist]

I never saw the innards of a tranny before . . . pretty cool! . . . After putting the new tranny on the lift and jacking it up, we were happy to see that it mounted right in without any problems . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS58.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS59.jpg


Next we hoisted the Dual Ultimate Crawler on the jack and mounted it in . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS75.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS80.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS74.jpg


The only problem (which we already anticipated) is that the exhaust would have to be slightly rerouted. The second cat was right up against the output for the front drive shaft. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS76.jpg


Aj said he could heat it and bend himself, or his buddy from Midas can take care of it later. . . .

[Revivalist]

Next we needed to swap the oil pan with one from a 2WD T100 which has the bulge on the back side instead of the front. That should give the clearance needed for the front axle to flex. Dropping the oil pan . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS67.jpg


Swapping the oil strainer . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS69.jpg


Prepping the new pan with a sealant and mounting it . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS71.jpg


Installing the new pan . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS73.jpg


The last thing we done that day was to prep the shackles and springs on the rear axle. The bolt holes on my current ToyTec shackles needed to be bored out for the bigger bolts and bushing of the new springs . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS85.jpg


We mounted the new springs and U-bolts to the axle and put the shackles back . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS87.jpg


That was really more than enough work for one day so we cleaned up shop and called it quits. We really can’t do a whole lot more until we wait for several parts to come in . . . .

[Revivalist]

Parts Still Needed

Now we basically need to wait for the following parts before we can continue . . .

• FJ-80 axle (Aj should be picking it up on Tuesday)
• High steer kit (Marlin said he can customize drag links when we send him measurements. The tie rod ends and pitman arm are also available. The only thing we’re waiting on is the steering arms. OTT says they will not make them anymore. However, 4x4 labs is going to get back to us about possibly building some.)
• Custom drive shafts (The front will have a lengthened 10” spline so it doesn’t fall out during full flex. Aj still needs to measure the drive line to order them.)
• Custom brake lines. (They need to be longer than the ones for the Toyota pickup.)
• Steering shaft (from Aj)
• 3 sets of drive shaft bolts (from Marlin)
• 3 T-case bolts
• Lots of oils & fluids (engine, tranny, t-cases, brakes, power steering, and gears) (I’m still waiting for a shipment of most of that from Amsoil!)


Labor that still needs to be done

The following are the tasks still ahead . . .

• Relocate rear spring mounts 3” forward, weld on shock mounts, bolt up rear springs with axle, and install rear shocks
• Install high steer kit
• Weld up front spring hanger, measure shackle angle for axle to be as far forward as possible, weld on shack mounts, bolt on shackles, and and bolt up front axle
• Weld up shock hoops and install front shocks
• Mount steering box (Aj will fabricate a mount for it since the one from Marlin is too big.)
• Modify and weld up dual t-case crossmember
• Modify center console to accommodate Marlin t-case shifter and twin stick
• Modify and reinstall catalytic converter
• Install drive shafts


A few questions . . .

The following are a few questions that we need to clear up to be sure the 4WD conversion is going to work. . .

• Why does the 2WD tranny seem to have 4 solenoids while the 4WD tranny has 3 solenoids? (The difference can be seen in this picture with Aj holding the wire inside the 2WD tranny.)


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS53.jpg


• What is the cable shifter on the 4x4 tranny that isn’t on the 2WD tranny? (I circled it in the following pictures.)


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS49edited.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS73edited.jpg


• What is the best route to take for steering? (Is there any other place that makes arms for the FJ-80? . . . If we can't find them, should we resort to low steering?)

[kiyul4130]

looking good. sas' are fun. im sure aj can figure that stuff out, hes done a ton of taco sas'.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

I did a ton of research for FJ80 steering solutions and none seem to exist, although Christo Slee at www.sleeoffroad.com is working on a solution. I ended up just going full hydro to clear the leaves on my pickup. I don't have any pics yet, or I would post them for you.

Ary

[SeaBass44]

you bought from TAP............:(

otherwise:smokin:

[Revivalist]

@ kiyul4130 - Yes, Aj is awesome. . . . This is actually the first time he's done a 4WD conversion so he never had to deal with the fine details that exist between transmissions. We just thought it would be good to know for sure why those differences are there so we don't have problems later . . .

@ Arya Ebrahimi - Are you saying that by going with hydro-assisted steering you were able to bypass the whole problem? If that's the case, I would much rather do that. . . . I know Trail-Gear is supposed to come out with a whole kit very soon. . . . The steering box I picked up is already drilled and tapped for hydro-assist. . . .

@ SeaBass44 - Marlin actually hooked up the deal. I know I got a far better price with his help than on my own, even if it is through TAP.

[Bones]

Truck is going to be REAL nice. :smokin: I have no idea on the tranny issues. Marlin should be able to steer you in the right direction. I really wanted to swap in a 4x4 manual and tcase for future SAS, but know I would never do it once cutting day come around. I think you will really like the auto off road. I am curious how it works for you and if it stays cool. Might want to get a tranny temp gauge.

Full hydro and street driving is not recomended and might be illegal in your state.

Email me at 30bones@gmail.com I have some questions about your old setup.

Thanks

[myota]

i'm really curious what you will do with the 80 axle. I've been wanting to put one under a rig, but it's really $$$ and the support isn't really there....Thanks for doing the research for me!

[Arya Ebrahimi]

No, I'm saying that by going full-hydro I was able to avoid the whole problem, but my rig is trail only, so street driving wasn't a concern.

Basically, I was saying I don't know how you're gonna handle this problem.

[rockota]

I agree - do NOT go full hydro on this thing. Do it correct, even if that means having to abandoned your high dollar Fj80 axle in favor of a Diamond housing w/ mini-truck knuckles. I suspect that will actually be cheaper anyway if you have to have steering arms custom made...

[Bones]

I agree - do NOT go full hydro on this thing. Do it correct, even if that means having to abandoned your high dollar Fj80 axle in favor of a Diamond housing w/ mini-truck knuckles. I suspect that will actually be cheaper anyway if you have to have steering arms custom made...
I agree and he can be sure to keep the springs at 29" centers, make it wide to mach the rear and not have to run 2" backspaced wheels and/or spacers to further jack up your steering when locked up front.

Friend had an FJ80 front he never got installed, but getting perches at 29" centers was tough and the diff side perch was way up on the housing making the one on the other end of the housing real tall and goofy looking. Plus it's not a round tube housing and makes things like this more work IMO.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Spreading the perches wasn't really hard at all. I just cut my marlin hanger in half and welded a 2.5" reciever tube in the middle and it actually widened the perches too much, so I may have to unwiden the hanger a bit, by removing some material on each side of the reciever tube.

The biggest problem with the 80 housing is steering, other than that it's a fantastic axle that has a few minor issues that are easily worked around.

[thepinktaco]

Im going the same route in a few months in my Tacoma except using coils and 3 link. Im starting to see a few more FJ80 SAS Tacos out there, just when I thought I was going to be one of the few.

[MT4Runner]

How about the FJ80 housing/3rd/shafts with minitruck balls/knuckles/birfs/hubs?

Wasn't there an overseas market Toy LC that was built like this--Prada? Wasn't Kiwi_Steve doing an SAS with such an axle?

[fastrexxx]

I'm interested in seeing how you setup the draglink. Just make it safe. It can be done, contrary to what the nay-sayers tell you. :)

Bones- If you don't mind, next time you see Tim (I think that was his name), tell him that I'm still waiting on the other parts he was supposed to ship. Maybe I'll get them someday. Thanks.

[Revivalist]

@ Bones - Thank you. . . . I take it you changed your mind about your comment “Stop this project now then” . . . Anyhow, thanks for the advise concerning the full hydro. . . . I’d be happy to e-mail you about my old setup. . .

@ myota - Yes, the support is very limited. It’s probably one of the major problems of going with the FJ80, besides the cost as you mentioned. . . . . I was willing to deal with it for the sake of it being a 30-40% heaftier axle with stronger 27-spline shafts, high pinion dif, matching dif gears with the rear, and the e-locker. . . .

@Arya & rockota - Ok, I won’t do full hydro. . . . As it stands now, there doesn’t seem to really be a solution for the steering. Aj went to a buddy’s place yesterday to pick up the axle but changed his mind. There just didn’t seem to be any clear way to work the steering. And low steering is just not an option . . . Another problem was that there didn’t seem to be a clear way to run leaf springs on it since it was designed for coils . . . It looks like we’ll have to resort back to a Dana44 after all. It’s kind of disappointing. But I’m more concerned with just getting a good working axle that’s strong, locked, and geared . . . Aj’s brother recalls seeing an axle for sale that he owned at one time. It’s complete hub to hub, with cromoly shafts, 5.13 gears, an ARB locker, the pumpkin on the right side, and even the complete high steer. It was going for $1800. I think that would be a good choice at this point . . . We’ll see. . . .

@ thepinktaco - That should be an interesting project. I definitely want to see that. By the way, I don’t personally know of other Tacos out there that are running FJ-80s. Could you possibly point to threads on the forum if you know of any. That would be nice for collecting more ideas. . . .

@ MT4Runner - That was suggested to me by a guy from Sky Manufacturing. But unfortunately it turns out that the mini knuckles can’t possibly work with the FJ-80.

Fastrexxx - I understand that Marlin can get the draglinks ready (since the bung is metric), but the main problem is the steering arm. . . .

[Arya Ebrahimi]

There is no match for your rear axle for 5.13 gears in a D44. The closest match in that range would be 5.38 to 5.29, but that's still a bit off.

[Bones]

If you go with the D44 that's built, you will want to go to 5.38's and 5.29's out back since it's a closer match than 5.13.

For 1800 I'd consider stepping up to one tons, but that is a whole nuther thread :D Good Luck

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Is there an echo? :D

Bones, did you see this guys vids in Gen 4x4? He doesn't need one tons yet, he needs seat time. ;)

[Bones]

Is there an echo? :D

Bones, did you see this guys vids in Gen 4x4? He doesn't need one tons yet, he needs seat time. ;)
I was having technical difficulties :D

I am not doubting that either just by the sum of $$ that is being spent on this build. Either way I like it.

My next mod for my prerunner double cab......a tonnue cover! :smokin:

[bigjeepguy]

I would love to see a parts cost run down of the project, if you don't mind disclosing that information :smokin:

[thepinktaco]

@ thepinktaco - That should be an interesting project. I definitely want to see that. By the way, I don’t personally know of other Tacos out there that are running FJ-80s. Could you possibly point to threads on the forum if you know of any. That would be nice for collecting more ideas. . . ..

I know Homegrown on this forum has a couple on their website.

This one is a big write up.
http://www.toyotatrailriders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444

[Revivalist]

Hmmm . . . I read through that whole thread very carefully. I can see that he had to wrestle with the steering problem also but I can't see what is final solution was. :confused:

[Bones]

Got propane also runs this axle with a homebrew setup and he gets it. searching for another link that might help

not much help http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=348093&highlight=fj80+steering

[fastrexxx]

Hmmm . . . I read through that whole thread very carefully. I can see that he had to wrestle with the steering problem also but I can't see what is final solution was. :confused:
That's mine. I haven't come up with a viable solution yet.... It was really intended to be on the truck for only one run. The nice thing is that it's a trail only truck for now. Don't do it the way I did!

Fortunately, the drag link (front) has held up on the last 5-6 runs. The tierod (rear) on the other hand has taken a beating. I've had to straighten it back a few times. It's getting replaced with 1.5"/.25"wall DOM and .75" rod ends tonight.

I might try to make a PS highsteer arm and cross over with a straight draglink, or just say to hell with it and do full hydro. I'm really riding the fence on that one....

[ErikB]

Too late for you since Marlin's got you covered, but FYI for Bones or anyone else- Jim @ Inchworm has an adapter now that converts the stock 2wd auto's to be able to accept a T-case. No need to swap the whole tranny any more. Choice of driver's or pass. drop too I think. :grinpimp:

Nice build! Are you going to lose the body lift hopefully? (I didn't read too thoroughly).

[pr0ject42]

I know this is a little after the fact as well, but if you decided to link the FJ-80 axle, you could run stock steering. Offroad solutions has a kit you can use to link your junk up.

The biggest downfall to that, at least to me, besides the price is how tall most of those rigs have ended up. 35s are the smallest you would want to go with ORS's coilover solution. Dope shit though!

[thepinktaco]

Im going to have my frame about 25 inches off the ground which is about 10 inches of lift over stock. Im going to run 35s for now then going to 37s in the future. Still dont know about the link placements yet.

[Revivalist]

Thanks for the input guys . . .

Ok, at this point I just need to settle two issues to finish this project:

1. Is it possible to run a high steer setup on the FJ80 with front leaf springs, and if so then where can I get the steering arms? . . . We were in touch with OTT and they said they’re not making then because there isn’t enough demand. Plus, when Aj went to look at the axle, there didn’t seem to be any clear way to set it up. . . . Can anyone offer a conclusive way on how to do it? . . . Otherwise I’m going to have to resort back to a Dana44 . . .

2. I talked to Marlin yesterday about the differences between the transmissions (that shifter cable I mentioned and the 3 versus 4 solenoids). He doesn’t think it’s going to work. Right now it’s already installed. Should we measure out the drive line, order the drive shafts and given it a try? Or should we just take it out now before we possibly mess something up by trying to run it? . . . I’m already starting to look around for a better match tranny (2003, V6, 3.4L, auto from a 4x4) . . .

@ Bones - Wow, I didn’t know you actually started a project similar to mine. . . . All those examples by Homebrew seem to be coils. I was hoping to see how someone did it with leaf springs . . .

@ fastrexx - I hope you get that whole thing sorted . . . I won’t be able to run full hydro myself because I still roll this thing on the street. . . .

@ ErikB - Hmmm, that adaptor plate might be a viable option now. Do you have a link to that? (This (http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/index.php?cPath=21_38) was the closest thing that I could find.) . . . As for the body lift, the thing is that I want to be able to run 37” tires and I know that it takes at least a 9” lift to clear the inner fenders. I’m thinking that I’ll get 6” from the leaf springs at most. So I need the extra 3” from the body lift to clear the tires . . . unless there’s a better option altogether. . . . As for stock steering, I would rather not go that route since it leaves the steering lower and vulnerable to damage. I'm really hoping to get a high steer setup to work somehow . . .

@ thepinktaco - Wow, how are you getting 10” of lift? That’s great!

[Bones]

I never started a project similar to yours...lol I won't cut up my double cab ever.

That link was my old rig I was going to buy back and run F/R FJ80 axles and leafs and some sort of cobbled up highsteer similar to Propanes.

You are runnig into a lot of hurdles and your truck is all torn apart and torched off suspension. It's costing you a fortune and I honestly do not think you know what you want out of this. Sounds like you are building/wanting a hard core rig and you ahve real limited wheeling experience. Most bought an older toyota and kept the nice Tacoma for DDing. You are going to be way to tall, long and heavy to do any tight trails. You are going to get a lot of skid marks in your shorts wheeling it, since it WILL feel real tippy off camber. My 4runner was the same way when I fist did the SAS. It was sky high and I didn't feel comfortable pushing it since it was so tall.

Sell it and buy a buggy :flipoff2:

[rockota]

Scrap the FJ80 axle idea and go with a Diamond. Trying to save a couple of $$ by cutting corners isn't helping you right now - it's actually costing you more, I suspect. Don't take this as a slam, but I don't think you had all of this figured out before you started torching - that's why so many of us were trying to push you in certain directions.

My recommendation is this:
Talk to Marlin about returning the Ultimate crawler in favor of something specific for the taco - a driver's drop using a Taco tcase. Buy a Diamond fron Housing from Brian to your specs and use Mini truck outers. Then go back to the drawing board and figure out what else you have missed.

Unfortunately, you are now w/o vehicle because of poor planning. It's still a great project, but is going to cost you a lot more than you thought because of this little snafu. Good luck!

[pr0ject42]

You guys are all nay-sayers. I know it certainly seems like homey here rushed into things, but hell, he is getting things done!

Before you scrap the fj-80 idea, call Slee offroad and ask if they have any prototype high steer or something similar you could use to at least get your drag link to the top of the knuckle. I know they were working on something that could be adapted to get together a high steer.

The next best bet would be to get a diamond made to your specs with mini knuckles and either get it set up for the HP e-locker or drop a HP with an ARB in it. You can get the pumpkin on either side at the width you want. Put 30 spliners in there from bobby and be done with it.

The CHEAPEST route is a D44. Maybe you could use an FJ-40 or 60 axle to get some width, but your locker and gear selection would be limited (although can't you put an elocker out of the rear of an fj-80 in one of those?).

Sucks about the tranny. I don't know squat about autos. If you ask me, I'd drop a R-151 in there, bolt it straight to your dual ultimate and call it maceroni. Of course I wouldn't have the balls to cut up an 02 Dcab either..

[Revivalist]

Guys, guys relax. . . . It's not the end of the world. The project will still turn out fine. There's always bound to be a few kinks to work out with stuff like this, right? . . . I'm not worried about my IFS being torched off because we were going to do that no matter what. I'm not sure why you say that truck is "costing me a fortune"? I haven't done anything different than any other SAS at this point. :confused:

As for the truck not being drivable right now, it's not a problem either. I have a little 90 Celica that I use for driving to work anyways. (It gets much better MPG) . . .

As for getting an old truck for dedicated off-roading, that's something that I honestly can afford. I need a nice truck for hauling stuff and crusing the family. I figured I would make it off-road capable as well. Then I have the Celica for daily driving. I don't have a place to put a third vehicle . . . I've hard of other guys running 37" tires on Tacomas. I don't see why mine would be any more top heavy then there's. :confused:

Anyhow, back to the issues, if worst comes to worst, I can run a Dana44 like most of the other Taco SASs out there. It's not biggie. I just thought it would be nice to do the FJ-80 for the high pinion, e-locker, and strength of the stock birfields. But if it won't work,

I did as much planning as I could. After getting the "go ahead" from Aj and Marlin, I started. I personally trust their advise and so far nothing has gone wrong. It's just a matter of making a final decision on the axle and mounting it.

[Fo-runna]

You are runnig into a lot of hurdles and your truck is all torn apart and torched off suspension. It's costing you a fortune and I honestly do not think you know what you want out of this. Sounds like you are building/wanting a hard core rig and you ahve real limited wheeling experience. Most bought an older toyota and kept the nice Tacoma for DDing. You are going to be way to tall, long and heavy to do any tight trails. You are going to get a lot of skid marks in your shorts wheeling it, since it WILL feel real tippy off camber. My 4runner was the same way when I fist did the SAS. It was sky high and I didn't feel comfortable pushing it since it was so tall.

Sell it and buy a buggy :flipoff2:

You can't fault the guy for wanting to build a "clean", badass rig. Limited experience or not. I don't see what "experience" has to do with it. If he has the money to build this, let him build it. Who came up wth this "everyone should start out with something older?" Most of the time I hear this theory spoken by guys who are broke. I'm not saying you're broke Bones, don't take offense. I'm saying, alot of times when a guy steps out of the box on his build, the haters come out of the woodwork and start giving him a hard time for spending alot of money, or doing something different. 9 out of 10 times the guy talking shiat wheeling a budget build from Pick n pull.

I don't even read the budget build threads anymore because why? There's no tech in them. That's why. BUT, you can bet they'll be tech in this thread if he's not discouraged into mini axles or one tons, etc.

Rant off. Sorry for the hijack Revivalist. Keep up the good work.

[Bones]

I want to be able to run 37” tires and I know that it takes at least a 9” lift to clear the inner fenders. I’m thinking that I’ll get 6” from the leaf springs at most. So I need the extra 3” from the body lift to clear the tires . . . unless there’s a better option altogether.
That's why I say it will be top heavy. You re trying to lift the truck to clear the tires instead of doing moderate life and lots of fender trimming and firewall to keep the truck as low as possible allowing it to perform better. By the time I parted out my junk I had 40's and as little lift as possible and hacked fenders/firewall and it was pretty low. I think it was 25-26" to the bottom of the frame and not much over 6' tall to the roof.

Curious to see where you end up is all. I am sure it will all work out. I just feel bad since you have that $$ tied up in the tranny/doubler and it may not work is all. My vote goes for a diamond housing once you decide which side you want the diffy. Still can use an high pinion Elocker that you want.

EDIT; oh and Fo-Runna...I AM Broke :laughing: I can't fathom building up a rig of any buget right now

[SeaBass44]

you do not need 10"s of lift to run 37's

before big lift
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e37/33JJ/My%20SAC/struck0246vi.jpg

after
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e37/33JJ/fyilgfiuy001.jpg


the axle.................Hmmmmmmmmmmm, do what you want:)

Keep taking pics:grinpimp:

[Bones]

Seabass you are a man of few words and always has a huge sig line(s) :laughing:

[SeaBass44]

Seabass you are a man of few words and always has a huge sig line(s) :laughing:


18,673 posts, nope I got nothin to say:p :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[ErikB]

@ ErikB - Hmmm, that adaptor plate might be a viable option now. Do you have a link to that? (This (http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/index.php?cPath=21_38) was the closest thing that I could find.) . . . As for the body lift, the thing is that I want to be able to run 37” tires and I know that it takes at least a 9” lift to clear the inner fenders. I’m thinking that I’ll get 6” from the leaf springs at most. So I need the extra 3” from the body lift to clear the tires . . . unless there’s a better option altogether. . . . As for stock steering, I would rather not go that route since it leaves the steering lower and vulnerable to damage. I'm really hoping to get a high steer setup to work somehow . .

The one in the link is the 4wd tranny adapter. The new one isn't on his web site yet. He sells a LOT of stuff that's not on his web site. He's probably got more adapter options than Marlin does these days. Give Jim a call, he is super helpful like Marlin and others.

I agree with the others who say its going to be too tall. If you move the axle forward and do some fender trimming/tubbing, you should have more than enough room to clear 37's with 4-6" of lift.
It will also drive and handle a lot better on the street and on the trail (less tippy) and I think you will be happier with the rig over all with it lower. It just takes a little bit more work (trimming/tubbing) and planning (locating the axle and steering).

As for the axle, I'm partial to the D44 since its got tighter steering (and that's what I run :D), but the Diamond housing is also an excellent option. The D44 will likely require the master cylinder be changed out too though (see my brake page).

Also, "low-steer" really isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've been running it for ~6 years with a beefy tie rod and have NEVER had any problems. Its actually stronger than hi-steer would have been since all the steering loads don't go through that passenger side steering arm.
The real problem with that FJ80 axle is connecting the drag link...

[priddymofo]

x2 on the ride height. I think the problem is you're still thinking like the guy who calls 4wdParts and asks for a lift kit that will clear a certain tire size. In the pic that seabass posted, that guys trimmed a lot of his fenders off and tubbed his firewall. Quit thinking about how much lift you need, and start looking for ways to clearance the wheel wells. Unless of course, you're going to use the rig to cruise mall parking lots. In that case, just stack another frame on top of yours, bolt the body on, and hit the pavement.

[Revivalist]

Thanks Fo-runna. No apology needed. It’s nice to know there’s someone around here who’s not opposed to this build. :D

About being top heavy, I didn’t realize that it would be such an issue. I guess I’ll try running the 37s first and if I’m leaning over too much on the trail, then I’ll consider removing the body lift and doing some trimming. The thing is that since it’s a “clean” ride, I would rather not cut up the body or fenders. . . . Anyway, I’ll deal with that issue when I get there . . .

As for the axle, I think I’ll start looking around for a Dana44. . . .

I was told today that the tranny might still work because the internals of the 4WD are different from the 2WD. I’ll guess I’ll give it a try and see if it works. If it doesn’t, I was already told I could get a full refund on it. . . . By the way, should be considered about the drive shaft length? Do we have to settle on which tranny for sure before we do it, or will the drive shafts be the same no matter what? . . .

Thanks ErikB for the suggestion. I’ll give Jim at inchworm a call today about that adaptor. . . .

I appreciate all the info guys . . . .I have to admit . . . pirate4x4 seems to have the meanest guys but also the most helpful input . . .

[Bones]

Wait of driveshafts until you get it all bolted up and measure a few times.

You sticking with a passenger side drop? If so, get a full width chevy and narrow the long side to accept a stock length shaft to avoid more custom stuff. Read ErikB's SAS also. Different rig, but same concept you are shooting for. He even has a rear Tacoma axle so you might be able to copy him as far as width goes. ;)

BTW, not opposed to the build at all, just voicing my opinion and giving as much constructive critisism as I can. :beer:

[halfxspaid]

Looks :smokin: :smokin: !! Dont you love clean, fresh parts lying around??

[Revivalist]

Looks :smokin: :smokin: !! Dont you love clean, fresh parts lying around??Love it! . . . And I'd like'm even better if they were bolted/welded on my truck! :D

Thanks for the ideas, Bones. Yeah, I would rather stick with the passenger side drop since I already bought that Dual Ultimate from Marlin. . . . As for the chevy, would that have all the features I need in an axle (correct lug pattern, high pinion, able to run an e-locker and 5.29 gears or close)? . . .

I'm glad your not opposed to the build. I guess I just have to get used to your unique way of encouraging me . . . with comments like "Stop this project now" . . . "Sell it and buy a buggy" . . . oh, and of course using this :flipoff2: smiley every few posts. . . . :p . . . But hey, I think you've given me more ideas and technical advise than anyone. Thanks! :)

---------------------------

News update: There's been an interesting turn of events. I talked to Jim from inchworm today. (Super-nice guy, by the way!) . . . He had excellent input concerning the steering and the tranny. . . .

1. The steering: Jim says that he will get in touch with OTT to see if they will provide the steering arms for the FJ-80. When I called OTT before they said they won't make them anymore. But Jim said it's because of the hassle of shipping to them the knuckles to be machined, having the steering arms mounted, and then having them shipped back. . . . Jim says he can do the maching here in his shop. So he's going to see if they'll just ship him the arms and he will take care of the rest. . . . The only problem is that if they're willing to do it, it could take them as much as 6 weeks to send them! :shaking:

2. The tranny: Jim has the adaptor to connect my 2WD tranny to the Dual Ultimate t-case! . . . So I wouldn't even have to use that 4WD tranny! I think that sounds like the best option . . .

By the way, for anyone who's interested, Jim was able to answer those questions I posted earlier about the tranny (in post #36 (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5875544&postcount=36)). It turns out that the cable on the 2000 4WD tranny that we couldn't identify is supposed to connect to the throttle cable to tell the tranny how much throttle the truck is getting. (I guess it has something to do with the way it shifts.) The 2003 2WD tranny that I had on my truck didn't have this cable because the newer trannies have a computer that tells the tranny this info. This also has something to do with why the newer 2WD tranny has 4 solenoids while the older 4WD tranny only has 3. . . So he said that we could try just moving the extra solenoid from the 2WD to the 4WD tranny. . . Either that or just run the 2WD tranny with the adaptor. . . . I definitely chose the adaptor! :cool2:

On a side note, today I was also offered a diamond axle that is ready hub to hub with chromoly shafts and 30-spline longfields, 5.29 gears, an e-locker, and a full high-steer kit. It's only been on a single run through the Rubicon. It's going for $6000. . .What do you guys think?

[Fo-runna]

On a side note, today I was also offered a diamond axle that is ready hub to hub with chromoly shafts and 30-spline longfields, 5.29 gears, and an e-locker. It's only been on a single run through the Rubicon. It's going for $6000. . .What do you guys think?

Wow, only 6000.00. I'd buy two or three at that price...:shaking:

[Arya Ebrahimi]

That axle MIGHT be worth 3000, on a good day, when you're broke on the trail, and REALLY need it.

[jslamerman]

You are in Custom D60 territory there (Rockcrusher/Dynatrac/Terrra/Currie), and if that is your budget, that is where I would go (I think youd actually save a few bucks provided you didnt want kingpin or ARB!!)

[Flexy Flatty]

Damn, I wish I'd have known about the 2wd adapter before I swapped my tranny out this summer :(

I really like the build and your overall goals for the rig, but I have to agree with the others concerning the overall height. It would be my suggestion to skip the body lift, and if you dont want to cut the fenders, get some nice fiberglass fenders with bigger wheel openings. When painted to match this would give you the clean look and will fit the tire better. I personally hate the look of a rig with little wheelwells that dont match the curvature of the tire, especially since this is usually combined with a sky high lift.

[Revivalist]

Alright, I've been doing more research and considering the following options . . .

• The axle: I think I'm giving up on the FJ80 and Dana44 and I'll take the advise that lots of you guys already gave . . . a custom Diamond axle. (I'm sorry I didn't listen sooner. :shaking:)

Here's all the advantages that I came up with for the Diamond:

-- General Advantages of the Diamond --
1. It's extremely strong and compact
2. I can decide the exact length I want to match my rear axle.
3. It's essentially a Toyota mini so I can get replacement parts from anywhere (Marlin Crawler, Trail Gear, Inchworm, etc.)
4. I can decide which side to put the differential
5. I don't have to go hunting through wrecking yards for a used axle

-- Advantages over FJ-80 --
6. The steering problem is solved (since I can get the high steer kit anywhere)
7. No paying to modify a FJ-80 housing for an e-locker

-- Advantages over Dana44 --
7. I can run the same gears front and back
8. I can run an e-locker
9. It can be high pinion

So here's what I think would be the price breakdown for the full front end:

-- Housing $900 (http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=121&osCsid=1a60dc7802066738fbce6be380026d16)
-- Locked differential (with 4.88 or 5.29 gears): $1300 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/diff/pickup_diff.htm)
-- 30-spline chromoly Birfields: $635 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
-- Chromoly inner shafts: $200 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
-- Highsteer kit $400 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
-- Did I miss anything?????

Total in parts: $3500

Are any of the following extra parts needed or helpful for the front end?
Knuckle ball kit??: $29 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
Upper axle reinforcement gusset??: $25 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
Differential armor??: $69 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
Manual hubs??: $291 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
E-locker motor guard??: $49 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/diff/pickup_diff.htm)


• The t-case: If I go with the Diamond, then should I see if Marlin will swap out the passenger side Dual Ultimate for a driver's side? If he's willing, then I don't have to hassle with rerouting the exhaust. . . .

• The ring and pinion gears: At first I was told to go with 5.29s. But after searching around on-line, all of the gear tables seem to indicate that 37" tires should use 4.88s for better gas ecomony. I know that this would sacrifice power on the trail, but I was thinking that the Dual Ultimate would easily make up for that, right? In fact, I was thinking that I could even run Dual 4.71 t-cases to bring the crawl ratio back up to where it was. Any thoughts? . . .

• The lift: I agree with you guys about not wanting to be top heavy, and also the point that Flexy Flatty made about not wanting to have small wheel wells that the tires can't even fit inside of. What do you guys think if I do just a little bit of trimming of the front bumper? I'm thinking about this rig that Aj at bentup did before. . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/ExampleofSASbyBentup1.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/ExampleofSASbyBentup2.jpg

Take note of the front bumper that was slightly timmed. I'm pretty sure he can stuff the whole tire in that wheelwell. I'm planning to run 37"s, not 40"s like that guy, so I probably wouldn't have to do that rear trimming.

[rockota]

Sounds like you have a good plan together. That $6K used Diamond axle is laughable. You can build one for under $4K, as you've already seen. If it meets your specs, offer the guy $2500. Your list looks good, but remember that you'll need knuckles, rotors, hubs from a mini truck axle still.

MAke sure you tell Brian exactly what front diff you want to run so he builds the axle accordingly.

As for the height, I'd do this. Get the thing tacked together and see how it looks. I suspect the 5" springs will be a tad tall, but maybe not. AJ can help in that area. Once you have it tacked together, you'll probably want to pull that body lift. Another option is to swap the 5" springs for 3"...

Nothing wrong with triming the bumper at all. Just make sure you mount the front axle far enough forward to prevent the tires from stuffing into the rear of the fenders...

[SeaBass44]

longs come with the axles, so knock $200 off your list.

you need a doner solid axle for knuckles, spindles, hubs, knuckle wiper set, rotor backing plates ( I WOULD GET BACKING PLATE ELIMINATERS)
you can byt calipers, rotors and all bearing new. Might as well get the 6 hole arms Marlin has, there might be a 6 stud knuckle someday;)

[SeaBass44]

as the saying goes
"THAT IS A HUGE BITCH!"

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/ExampleofSASbyBentup1.jpg

[Revivalist]

Thanks for the input guys . . . Let me make sure I have this straight. So here’s what I need to get . . .

-- Housing and chromoly inner shafts: $900 (http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=121&osCsid=1a60dc7802066738fbce6be380026d16) (from www.diamondaxle.com)
-- Locked differential (with 4.88 or 5.29 gears): $1300 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/diff/pickup_diff.htm) (from Marlin)
-- 30-spline chromoly Birfields: $645 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/ahtm/axles.htm) (from Marlin)
-- Highsteer kit (with 6 bolts) (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm) (from Marlin)

-- Knuckles (from wrecking yard or from Marlin when the six bolt version comes out)
-- Rotors (from wrecking yard)
-- Spindles (from wrecking yard)
-- Hubs (from wrecking yard)
-- Calipers (by new from somewhere)
-- Rotors (by new from somewhere)
-- Bearings (by new from somewhere)
-- Brake pads ((by new from somewhere)

-- Rotor backing plate eliminator (from where?)
-- Knuckle wiper set (from where?)

A few other questions . . .

-- Should I get the hydro assist steering kit? My steering box is already drilled and tapped. Should I spring the $200 to get the kit from Trail Gear (http://www.trail-gear.com/hydro-steering.html)?

-- Is there any reason to use multiple shocks? (I saw this on my neighbor’s truck the other day and I was wondering if there is any benefit to it?)

-- Any comments concerning what I wrote in the last post about ring and pinion gears? Would running 4.88s and then using the Dual Ultimate still give enough torque on the trail? I was thinking about going this route because I think that 4.88s will give better gas mileage on the street. . . .

[dangerous toy]

i just finished the sas on my taco and im running 4.88's , im running a D44 front so it kinda forced me to go with the 4.88's if i wanted a matched set f/r. with the 3.4l and the 5speed trans the 4.88's seem to be just right around town and on the highway (oh yeah, im running the 37-1450 toyo mt's) i dont have a front d-line built yet so i havent had a chance to run it on the trail but with a duel case set up i wouldnt worry about 4.88's being too fast on the trail. I'm running trail gear 5" springs f/r and NO body lift, the truck is actually about an inch higher that i would like, im gonna try and get the ride height down a little and trim the fenders. i think 5" springs and a 3" body lift would be pretty crazy high for your truck. I clear the front uncut fenders by 12" and i have 28" from ground to frame. i wish i would have gone with the 4" springs but i think i will take the bottom leaf out of f/r packs and see if it will settle down some. hope this info helps, i could email some pics if you like.

[SeaBass44]

You guys are all nay-sayers. I know it certainly seems like homey here rushed into things, but hell, he is getting things done!

Before you scrap the fj-80 idea, call Slee offroad and ask if they have any prototype high steer or something similar you could use to at least get your drag link to the top of the knuckle. I know they were working on something that could be adapted to get together a high steer.

The next best bet would be to get a diamond made to your specs with mini knuckles and either get it set up for the HP e-locker or drop a HP with an ARB in it. You can get the pumpkin on either side at the width you want. Put 30 spliners in there from bobby and be done with it.

The CHEAPEST route is a D44. Maybe you could use an FJ-40 or 60 axle to get some width, but your locker and gear selection would be limited (although can't you put an elocker out of the rear of an fj-80 in one of those?).

Sucks about the tranny. I don't know squat about autos. If you ask me, I'd drop a R-151 in there, bolt it straight to your dual ultimate and call it maceroni. Of course I wouldn't have the balls to cut up an 02 Dcab either..

FJ40 is 55", yes same as mini, no width gain there:confused:

[CronusTRD]

Expect a long time to get your Diamond Axle. I ordered mine in May and still haven't received it. I don't think AJ wants your truck sitting there for 5 months while it waits for an axle. I would go with the Wagoneer axle or an f250 hi-pinion since they are available right now.

I would still pick up a Toy mini axle for the parts needed to complete the Diamond axle, such as hubs, hardware, knuckles, etc.

Nice to see you were prepared for such a project

[Revivalist]

@ dangerous toy - Thank you, sir. That is very helpful information! . . . Then I think I’ll run 4.88s for the street and then make up for any lost torque on the trail with the Dual Ultimate Marlin Crawler. . . .

According to my calculations, the crawl ratio with 4.88s is hardly different from the crawl ratio with 5.29s. Here’s my specs . . .

Transmission 1st gear: 3.93
First t-case: 2.28
2nd t-case: 4.70
Ring and pinion: 4.88 or 5.29

Crawl Ratio with 4.88 ring and pinion: 3.93 x 2.28 x 4.7 x 4.88 = 205:1
Crawl Ratio with 5.29 ring and pinion: 3.93 x 2.28 x 4.7 x 5.29 = 223:1

I don’t think I would notice the difference between 223:1 and 205:1. So I think 4.88s are definitely the way to go . . .

That’s also very interesting news about your lift. I still haven’t put on the 5” springs from Trail Gear so I could possibly exchange them for the 4” if I want to. (Trail Gear is right down the street from me so there would be no hassle.) . . . . I would really like to see how you trimmed your fenders. Can you post some pics in this thread? That would be super-helpful. . . .

By the way, were you really FORCED to run 4.88s to get a matched set? I was told that gears can be off as much as 5% without any problems, especially if you only used 4WD under 35MPH. So supposedly it would be possible to run 5.29s in the back with 5.13s or 5.38s in the front. . . .

------------------------------------------

@ CronusTRD - Thanks for the info. . . . Wow, you ordered it in May?! .. . . They must be incredibly backed up! . . . You’re right, Aj doesn’t want my truck sitting around in his garage and neither do I. It looks like we’ll have to go with the Dana44 after all. . . . If we do that then I guess there would be no point getting the parts for the Diamond axle cuz I don’t really plan on taking everything apart again later . . .

As for being prepared for the project, yes I know it seems I didn't prepare properly. But I’ve actually been collecting information and parts for a few months and keeping Aj updated. I left it up to him as far as when to start the work. He said labor day would be a good time to start and we thought we were ready to go since we had the tranny, dual t-cases, the front and rear suspension, all the hardware for the SAS, the steering box, and his buddy had the FJ-80 axle ready to go. . . The problems with the steering and the tranny were simply unforeseen. . . . But it’s not really a big deal. The tranny problem is already solved with that adaptor from Inchworm and I’m sorting out the choice on the axle with all of your help on the forum. . . . Aj is up wheelin the Rubicon at the Marlin round up so I know he’s not worried about it. Hopefully by the time he’s back I will have a set game plan and we can even finish this thing up by next weekend. (That was the time he was hoping to have this done anyways.)

[Flexy Flatty]

Did I miss where the a340E/F auto has a 3.93 (or 3.39, you have both listed in the above post) to 1 first gear? I was under the impression that it was somewhere in the high 2's, I wanna say like 2.82:1 or something like that. You might want to recheck your figures there.

[Revivalist]

Oops. Thank you for pointing out that mistake of using 3.39 and 3.93. I fixed it . . .

As for the tranny having 3.93 in first gear, I just assumed that to be the case based on this page on the Marlin Crawler website (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/transfercase/getratio.htm). But I could certainly be wrong. . . . If 1st gear is really only 2.82, then the crawl ratio with the Marlin Dual Ultimate and 5.29 ring and pinion would be

2.82 x 2.28 x 4.7 x 5.29 = 160:1

I would be very surprised if the crawl ratio is that low. But regardless, I think the point still stands that using 4.88 ring and pinion shouldn't show that much difference on the trail because it would still give a crawl ratio of

2.82 x 2.28 x 4.7 x 4.88 = 138:1

which isn't that far off from 160:1. . . .

[rockota]

Oops. Thank you for pointing out that mistake of using 3.39 and 3.93. I fixed it . . .

As for the tranny having 3.93 in first gear, I just assumed that to be the case based on [COLOR="Cyan"]this page on the Marlin Crawler website (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/transfercase/getratio.htm).

That page lists first gear ratios for 5-speed manual trannies only. Even with a 2.82 (or whatever it is), keep in mind that your torque converter will effectively multiply that ratio as well.

[dangerous toy]

Revivalist- no i wasnt "forced" to run 4.88's, but this rig is my daily driver and i live in a snowy area where its nice to run 4wd at more than 10 or 15 mph. 5.29 and 5.38 is a big enough diiference that i wouldnt wanna run it at speed. sorry i cant post any pics for you cause i dont have a star, but i'll email ya some.

[paulevans76]

5.29 and 5.38 are fine. it's within 2% and would only be a problem if you drove on a really high friction surface, in 4wd, really fast, and never turned- but I see you are planning to utilize a steering system :flipoff2: lots of people run those ratios with no issues.

[Laughter]

Doesn't Sky's make custom axle housings as well? Maybe another possible option if the Diamond axles are behind schedule?

[ErikB]

I've run 5.38/5.29 for many years at low and high speeds in 4wd and haver NEVER had any issues. Its not something to worry about. Its a 1.7% difference. Your tires are probably that much different diameter when new...

That said, 4.88 is probably a better ratio for 37's and highway driving with the 3.4L. 5.29's would be OK too though since the auto has a fairly high overdrive gear compared to the 5spd.

As for the crawl ratio, don't forget that the torque converter acts as a torque doubler as, so it essentially doubles your crawl ratio. My bro in law did fine at the Hammers with a stock auto single case. Dual-auto would be similar to a dual-ultimate manual. Dual-auto-ultimate seems like a waste to me. You probably wouldn't be able to stop it with the brakes w/o putting it in neutral.

D44's- hi-pinion only came in Fords and they are driver's side drop. They can be retubed though.
Low-pinion isn't all that bad though if you turn the knuckles to point the pinion at the t-case, which is something you should probably do no matter what axle you use.

[GJC]

Cool build! keep the pics coming!:cool2:

[soopatoy]

[QUOTE=SeaBass44]as the saying goes
"THAT IS A HUGE BITCH!"QUOTE]

:laughing:



oh wait:shaking: :shaking: :shaking:

[Revivalist]

Ok, at this point I just need to make a final choice on the axle. I don't have all the details as far as prices go, but I have a lot. . . .. Please give me your vote anyways. . .


1. FJ-80.
This was the original plan. It's high-pinion, has stronger birfields than a Toyota mini, it can run 5.29s to match the rear, and it's a got a driver's side drop which matches the dual t-cases I have. . . .

(OTT said they would make the steering and arms and send them to Jim at Inchworm to do the machining on the knuckles. The only problem is that it will take 6-8 weeks for that to happen. :shaking: ) . . . The total cost is as follows . . .

Cost breakdown
• Used FJ-80 axle: $1100
• Longfield Chromoly FJ-80 Super Set: $750
• Knuckle Rebuild Kit: $75???
• Wheel Bearing Kits: $40 x 2 = $80???
• 3rd member (with 5.29s and e-locker): $1300
• E-locker Motor Guard: $75
• High-steer kit (tie rod $60, tie-rod ends $40, drag link $60, pitman arm $70, arms $250): $480
• Extended Brake Lines: $50
• Elocker Control Kit: $75
• Differential armor: $70
• Labor to modify housing for e-locker, install gears & locker: ~$400???
• Labor for machined knuckles: $100
• Labor to reroute the exhaust: $60

Total Estimated Cost for FJ-80: $4615

----------------------------------------------------------

2. Dana44 with chromoly shafts.
Aj found someone who is willing to sell a Dana44 with chromoly shafts for $650. I don’t know if it’s high pinion. Also, the diff is on the driver’s side which means I would need to exchange the dual t-case setup for a passenger side. I also have to run 5.38s in the front which don’t match exactly. (But I guess that’s not a big deal.) I would also have to go with a ARB locker . . .

Cost breakdown
• Used Dana44 with chromoly shafts: $650
• Knuckle Rebuild Kit: $75???
• Wheel Bearing Kits: $40 x 2 = $80???
• 5.29 gears: $200
• ARB locker (locker $750, install kit $40, compressor $220): $810
• High-steer kit: ~ $400???
• Extended Brake Lines: $50
• Differential armor: $70
• Labor to service axle: $200
• Labor to install gears and locker: ~ $500
• Hubs:
• Spindles, calipers, brake pads: $300???

Total Estimated Cost for Dana44: $3335

----------------------------------------------------------

3. Custom Diamond axle ready to go.
It’s high pinion, has a passenger side differential (so I don’t need to exchange the t-cases), and is 64” wide which is a bit wider than the rear 61”. . . . This is the axle that I mentioned earlier in the thread that was for $6000. I really didn’t do justice to the amount of parts that went into it. The steering is WAY more beefed up than I realized. (There’s almost $1000 in parts going into it.) Here’s the breakdown.

Cost breakdown
-Diamond Housing $900
-Core Toyota Front Axle $300 (for knuckles, spindles, wheel hubs, locking hubs, etc...)
-Ball Gussets $50
-Longfield Super Set w/Custom Length Inners: $645 + $200 = $845
-3rd member (high pinion, E-locker, 5.29s): $1300
-Elocker Motor Guard: $75
-Tie Rod: $60
-Drag Link (we'll make one to fit your rig): $60
-1 Ton Rod Ends: $135
-D44 Knuckle Studs/Cones: $80
-Knuckles Machined for D44 Studs: $100
-Custom OTT High Steer Arms - Machined for 1Ton Rod Ends and D44 Knuckle Studs+Cone Washers: $280
-Ott Dropped Pitman Arm - Machined for 1Ton End: $150
-ARP Hub Studs: $70
-Longfield Chromo Hub Gears: $70 x 2 = $140
-Knuckle Rebuild Kit: $75
-Wheel Bearing Kits: $40 x 2 = $80
-Brass Spindle Bushings: $36 x 2 = $72
-Loaded IFS Calipers: $119 x 2 = $238
-Vented Rotors: $39 x 2 = $78
-Extended Brake Lines: $50
-Rock Rings: $20
-Elocker Control Kit: $75
-Labor for assembling axle: $200
-Labor for regearing and installing locker: $400

Total: $5833 . . . The seller is willing to let it go for $5400.

----------------------------------------------------------

4. Custom Diamond (made to order)
I can order a Diamond axle that’s basically identical to the one above except the steering won’t be all beefed up. The only problem is that Brian from Diamond Axle said it could take 6-8 weeks to prepare. :shaking:

The cost is $4600 + $400 (shipping) = $5000.

----------------------------------------------------------

5. Look into a custom Dana60
Someone advised me to consider checking out Dana Tack or Courier Enterprises (spelling?) for prices on a custom Dana60 because the cost will probably come out pretty close but the axle will be much stronger. . . .

Well, those are my choices. Let me know what you guys think . . . .I need to make the choice as soon as possible because this weekend I'm going up to Sacramento to get the 2WD to 4WD adaptor from Jim at Inchworm. I'm also going to take in the rear differential to have it regeared to 5.29. So I'd like to make a final decision before I go so we can start to wrap up the project . . .Thanks!

[Flexy Flatty]

So you can either do the 44 or the built diamond right now, or wait several weeks for one of the other (better) options. Its a bitch not planning ahead isn't it? I like the idea of the fj80 as that is the cleanest (ie most factory-like) option. As I doubt this thing is gonna get flogged on too hard I would use the fj80 that you already have and skip the longs for now. If you break axles in the future you can always upgrade.

[Revivalist]

The major drawback to the FJ-80 is waiting on the steering arms. . . . Yes, it is a bummer that we didn't know we would have this hang up earlier. . . .

Only the Dana44 and the pre-built Diamon Axle are options that could be done immediately. The other options require waiting on either Diamond Axle or OTT. . .

[]4RunnerKid[]

if you can afford that prebuilt diamond i would go that route... 6-8 weeks is a long time.

[SeaBass44]

The major drawback to the FJ-80 is waiting on the steering arms. . . . Yes, it is a bummer that we didn't know we would have this hang up earlier. . . .

Only the Dana44 and the pre-built Diamon Axle are options that could be done immediately. The other options require waiting on either Diamond Axle or OTT. . .


sky also has an axle, 3 week wait, or so there site says, call them.
at $5400 on that diamond, look into a Pro-Rock D60

[locktup]

Look into the Dana 60 or a 9" if AJ can wait that long.

[Revivalist]

Hmmm, I'll have to check out what sky has to offer . . .

Tha main thing that's steering me away from the Dana60 (other than the price) is that it's so big and heavy. It wouldn't really matter with a dedicated off-road truck, but since this is also a street truck I wouldn't want to have to lug around the extra weight. . .

[jslamerman]

Hmmm, I'll have to check out what sky has to offer . . .

Tha main thing that's steering me away from the Dana60 (other than the price) is that it's so big and heavy. It wouldn't really matter with a dedicated off-road truck, but since this is also a street truck I wouldn't want to have to lug around the extra weight. . .


Dude, at any price @ or over 4500, you are into D60 territory. Call Larry at Mad4wd.com, and get a price quote on a Hi pinion D60, or hybrid Ford 9 housing, its well into that territory, and I think youd be better off (I dont know many people that will argue when the costs are equal. Im a big Toyota fan myself, and put incredible stock into Bobby longs axles, but the beauty of Toy stuff is SUPPPOSED to be lower cost, and the fact that most of us already have money tied up in Toy stuff. You wont find anyone willing to put that much money into a Toy 8" from the start. Remeber, the gears and carrier will ALWAYS be the weak point after throwing MASSIVE amounts of money into it. Ive seen, and had buddys break 4.10s in the Toy housings, that pinion shaft is just damn small)

[rockota]

You can get a built 8-lug Ford Dana 60 from WFO Concepts for $3200.

www.wfoconcepts.com

[priddymofo]

This thread rocks. The guy has never even engaged a t-case, and he's on his way to competition axles. Gotta love it. I bet it gets sold in the first year, though. :shaking:

[jslamerman]

This thread rocks. The guy has never even engaged a t-case, and he's on his way to competition axles. Gotta love it. I bet it gets sold in the first year, though. :shaking:

I see your point, however, how many of us wish we had started off right, and not wasted the money on other weak shit that eventually breaks??!! (ALL OF US!!) I dont think its a waste if he isnt out any more cash, definitely wont break as much (if at ALL in his application), and if he does sell it, it will be worth SIGNIFICANTLY more with a 60 than Toy stuff, or D44 JUNK (and I mean junk, I wouldnt spend a damn penny on D44 crap)

[SeaBass44]

I see your point, however, how many of us wish we had started off right, and not wasted the money on other weak shit that eventually breaks??!! (ALL OF US!!) I dont think its a waste if he isnt out any more cash, definitely wont break as much (if at ALL in his application), and if he does sell it, it will be worth SIGNIFICANTLY more with a 60 than Toy stuff, or D44 JUNK (and I mean junk, I wouldnt spend a damn penny on D44 crap)


I agree, if he has the bank to go all out:smokin:

We all work within a budget, some have the $$$ & won't spend it, some do, most of us don't:flipoff2:

Good luck on the build, hope it turns out how you want;)

[Revivalist]

This thread rocks. The guy has never even engaged a t-case, and he's on his way to competition axles. Gotta love it. I bet it gets sold in the first year, though. :shaking:Sold in the first year?!! . . . You gotta be kidding!. . . First of all, this thing is gonna be the exact rig I've wanted. I plan on keeping it until it's used to it's full life. . . . Second of all, I know I could never get back in cash what I put into it. The value is purely in the enjoyment of it. :D

I see your point, however, how many of us wish we had started off right, and not wasted the money on other weak shit that eventually breaks??!! (ALL OF US!!) I dont think its a waste if he isnt out any more cash, definitely wont break as much (if at ALL in his application) . . .That's exactly what I'm thinking. Do it right the first time and avoid switching out stuff later or breaking it on the trail. . . .


Anyhow, I'm still really wrestling with the choice of axle. I haven't had a chance to call around for prices on the custom D60. But I have to be honest that right now I'm still partial to the Toyota Diamond because it's stong and yet it's small and light -- perfect for a daily driver that only hits trails every few months. . . . But the price tag makes me cringe every time I think about it. . . . Man, decisions, decisions. :laughing:

[jslamerman]

Man, a little weight down low will give you more stablility, at a small cost on the street. I dont think width or wieght down low are penalties on the trail, absolutely the opposite (build the width to what you think you can get away with legally where you live, and push it just a "bit"!!) FYI, They dont weigh all that much when using 1/2 ton brakes, and I keep sayin, Toy stuff is great, but ring and pinions COST to change, and it will downright SUCK if its on the trail, especially when driven there. I am an all out advocate of overbuilding a street driven rig, as we dont have the luxury of pullin it up on a trailer and towing it possibly hundreds of miles home, and fixed at the liesure of time/budget. Just my opinion! If you use Toy stuff, try and keep a budget in mind, and use the diamond housing, ease off on the other crap (high pinion e locker, and gears, use a low pinion used v6 housing, gear it and put a detroit in!! Try and be reasonable). There is another thread here on Spider 9 housings, and one can be had for 400, heck buy Ball joint D60 parts (NOT expensive at all) from Rockdrusher or Dynatrac, have them installed, and go all out on the hi 9 housing, and buy Yukon D60 shafts, and aftermarket 6 lug hubs, dont think youd be more than 4500 that way.(wouldnt wiegh much either)

[TroyToy]

we just installed allpro's dana 60 front axle on a tacoma coilover conversion
and that thing was bad arse.......pricey but bling with a toyota 3rd member
and ready to ship something you might want to look into

[Thews Runner]

after building my diamond and if I hade it to do over again I would go 60 and be money ahead and be stronger .........

ya ya I know the diamond is strong and I am not saying that but the hole hub deal and stering studs are the 2 worst things on a toy front. just my .02$ but I would go with a 60 if you are going to spend that much money and hell if you want a diamond that bad I have one that is 61.5" wide you can buy. hope this helps

[priddymofo]

I see your point, however, how many of us wish we had started off right, and not wasted the money on other weak shit that eventually breaks??!! (ALL OF US!!) I dont think its a waste if he isnt out any more cash, definitely wont break as much (if at ALL in his application), and if he does sell it, it will be worth SIGNIFICANTLY more with a 60 than Toy stuff, or D44 JUNK (and I mean junk, I wouldnt spend a damn penny on D44 crap)


I'm not dogging him (sp?). I'd love to see him wheel the crap out of the rig and be happy with it. I guess I'm just relating previous stories I've seen unfold on the past. Only time will tell. Also, I agree about the 60 stuff. No sense in putting in junk you know you're going to swap out later.

[MT4Runner]

Wow, it's kind of fun watching someone else throwing heaps of cash at their rig...just like 4Mogger!

I'm not faulting either of them....the builds are cool....just glad the money isn't mine!!

Shit, I have $5,400 into my entire rig! (Not that it's as beefy as one of these axles, but it's also operable! :flipoff2:)

[ErikB]

...D44 JUNK (and I mean junk, I wouldnt spend a damn penny on D44 crap)

That's strange... My D44 "crap" seems to work extremely well and has been very reliable. I broke a few junkyard shafts, but that problem has been solved by Alloy USA.

The rest of the axle has worked FLAWLESSLY for the last 6 years or so, including 6 trips to the Hammers and being jumped numerous times. No bent housings, broken steering studs, hub bolts, trunion bearings, ring and pinions... :confused:

Its not a 60, but I don't think I need a 60 or its higher price and weight or reduced ground clearance.

Calling a D44 junk is obviously not based on any factual information. So I'd say your opinion is far more worthless than any D44 "junk." :rolleyes:

:flipoff2:

[SeaBass44]

That's strange... My D44 "crap" seems to work extremely well and has been very reliable. I broke a few junkyard shafts, but that problem has been solved by Alloy USA.

The rest of the axle has worked FLAWLESSLY for the last 6 years or so, including 6 trips to the Hammers and being jumped numerous times. No bent housings, broken steering studs, hub bolts, trunion bearings, ring and pinions... :confused:

Its not a 60, but I don't think I need a 60 or its higher price and weight or reduced ground clearance.

Calling a D44 junk is obviously not based on any factual information. So I'd say your opinion is far more worthless than any D44 "junk." :rolleyes:

:flipoff2:

I think CRASH had a decent 44 too, till he went 60, don't think he broke the 44, just had to upgrade "because":p

[Revivalist]

Well, I've been calling around for prices on a custom Dana60 and they seem to be around $6000. Plus, I was told that if I run 5.29s in the rear and 5.38s or 5.13s in the front then I can't use 4WD on pavement or I risk messing up my t-case. :shaking: . . . But I don't want to run matching 4.88s in front and back b/c I know they'll be bogged down with 37-38" tires. . . .

On the other hand I was warned again about the weaker ring and pinion and the knuckle joints on the Toyotas. . . .

I guess I'm learning toward the Diamond again. At least they have the knuckle ball gussets. . . .

[Bones]

Are you planing on going bigger than 37's on this rig. seriously? If not, build a diamond/toyota and upgrade it as parts fail. You get your gearing you want without messing with the rear axle other than gears.

Why not build F/R axles so you can get matched gearing?

FYI (my $0.02) You can buy a stock/junkyard D60 for $1200 maybe less, gear it, lock it, replace some seals, bearings and you'd be bullet proof. Maybe get some 35 spline stubs down the road, but friends ran stock shafts, V8, doublers and 44" TSL's and only broke it when doing doughnuts in a field at 40mph, then he rolled it with me in it. ouch :laughing: He has a few 60's that he got for under 450 each as well. bastard. Take the remaining 2K you saved and build a semi float 35 spline 60 rear and you'd be hard pressed to ever break a thing. Oh and you can even go to 6.17 or 7.17 gears :cool: You can make it 6 lug if you already have your desired wheels, but it's $$ up front for the hubs.

I ran mine on pavement in 4WD with 5.38 fornt and 5.29 rear and 37's and then 40's and it never did any damage other than the 4 cyl not being able to move the 40's. I had a double with 4.0 gears in the rear case. :shrug:

[MT4Runner]

Well, I've been calling around for prices on a custom Dana60 and they seem to be around $6000. Plus, I was told that if I run 5.29s in the rear and 5.38s or 5.13s in the front then I can't use 4WD on pavement or I risk messing up my t-case. :shaking: . . . But I don't want to run matching 4.88s in front and back b/c I know they'll be bogged down with 37-38" tires. . . . .

Fo sho?

Most of us are running 5.29's with tires over 35" because they'd bog down our 22RE motors....the little 2.4l that could. (and we had 4.10's to start with)

Your 3.4 would have a lot less trouble with 37-38's and 4.88's. Your stock axle is probably 3.90's. 4.88/3.90 = 125% increase

5.29/4.10 = 129% increase.

When we move our little 4-bangers up from the stock 29" tire to a 35", it's a 20% increase in diameter.

When you take your prerunner from its stock 31" wheel up to a 38", it's a 123% increase in tire diameter.

You can't use "22RE Conventional Wisdom" with your 3.4L. You have more torque and more hp.

And lots of people run 5.29/5.38 combo. :flipoff2:

5.38/5.29 = 1.7% difference
5.13/5.29 = 3.0% difference

I wouldn't run 5.13's, but feel perfectly comfortable running the 5.38's. The only concern would be straight stretches of dry pavement. Do you plan to run in 4wd for hundreds of miles on the interstate?

If you're driving around locked, you'll have a lot bigger problems on the street/snow/ice/rain than with a slight gear difference in 4wd.

But it's your rig and your money! :flipoff2:

[GA86yota]

if you want it...i have a 4.27 tundra/ t100 third with a TRD air locker its an 8.4'' ring gear...you could run a tundra/t100 rear with a fj80 front but its your rig

[ErikB]

Like I said before (as well as MANY others), 5.29/5.38 is NOT going to hurt anything. I've been doing it for YEARS. My t-case has over 265,000 miles on it, many of those miles in the last 8 years have been hard offroad miles. If there was a problem running 5.29/5.38, it would have shown itself by now.

That said, 4.88's with 37's works out to about "stock" gearing with the 3.4L. In my 3.4L T100 I've got 4.88's and 35/s and the gearing is too low (rpms are high on the freeway). I put the 37's from my 4runner on it once for fun and gearing was just about right. If you want good street gearing, then 4.88's are probably what you want. You could run 5.29's if you wanted and be ok since the auto has a little higher overdrive than my 5spd, but 4.88's are closer to "stock."

Also, in case you haven't thought about it yet- you really should put an aux tranny cooler on your rig as well.

[SeaBass44]

if you want it...i have a 4.27 tundra/ t100 third with a TRD air locker its an 8.4'' ring gear...you could run a tundra/t100 rear with a fj80 front but its your rig

when did they start making TRD AIR LOCKERS?:confused:

[Bones]

Also, in case you haven't thought about it yet- you really should put an aux tranny cooler on your rig as well.
Cooler should be with a switched fan IMO also. Don't forget a tranny temp gauge.

[ErikB]

Cooler should be with a switched fan IMO also. Don't forget a tranny temp gauge.

Agreed. On my bro in law's runner we reused the factory A/C fan. and mounted the tranny cooler under it. I don't think the Taco has one though, so it would need to be added. Some fancy coolers come with their own fans even.

Quote from Phil Johnson, who had the first Toyota auto-crawler:
I've been running the dual cases behind the A340F automatic for 3 years now (about 50K miles) and I LOVE it!

The one thing I have found is that I don't use the second case very much. I almost always run the 4.7 gears alone. The second set (2.28) comes into use when I am descending a steep hill or just showing off :D

For a tranny cooler, I have a PermaCool(?) unit with it's own fan and thermostat mounted under the rear body.

Oh yeah, don't forget, PROTECT THE TRANS PAN. I put a skidplate on mine and am glad I did.

Phil

And that was from a 3 year old post, so he's been running it for 6 years now.

[Revivalist]

I asked around about the tranny fan but it was pointed out to me that since the Dual Ultimate already provides such low gearing, the tranny really shouldn't be struggling on the trail. . . . It was suggested instead that I pick up a power steering cooler since I'll be using a hydro ram assist. . . .

[Revivalist]

Well, we made a bit more progress on the project this weekend. We took a trip over to Inchworm to meet Jim and pick up the 2WD to 4WD adaptor along with a few other parts . . . . I also decided to pick up that custom Diamond axle after all. Basically, my choices came down to this . . .

After calling about 7 custom axle shops it turns out that a complete custom Dana60 front end would run about $7000 with everything needed from hub to hub. That was obviously way over the budget.. . . . The next choice was a custom 9”. However, it turns out that a high pinion 9” only comes in 4.88 gears. I could get a low pinion 9” with 5.29s but I was told that a low pinion 9” is really, really low. So I wasn’t very happy with that choice either. Plus all the custom stuff seems to have a 4-6 week turn around time which is longer than we want to wait to finish this project. . . Lastly, I could have gone with a rebuilt Dana44, but the high pinions are pretty rare and would also require a bolt pattern conversion. . . .

So I finally broke down and decided to go with the custom Diamond axle that was ready to go with a high pinion diff, 5.29s, e-locker, and just about every upgrade possible including knuckle ball gussets, Longfield Super Set with custom inners, Longfield chromo hub gears, ARP hub studs, and a super beefed up high steer with custom OTT arms. . . . Plus, it was the width I needed (64”), it has the diff on the passenger side to match my Crawler, and it was only 15 minutes away from AJ’s shop which means no wait-time and no shipping. . . .So I went for it. . . . Here’s some pics of the steering arm and pitman arm. . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay1.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay2.jpg

Talk about some beef on those things! . . .

One other nice feature was the way Jim eliminated the need for one of the passenger side U-bolts by welding nuts straight to the axle and using regular bolts. You can see it in this pic . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay4.jpg

It turns out that the U-bolt that would normally go there won’t really sit right, so this bypassed that problem. It also made it possible to use the usual spring hanger that comes with the Toyota mini SAS kit. No need for AJ to fab up a wider one for my Tacoma. . . .

Here’s AJ and Jim pulling it off Jim’s rig and putting it on the lift. . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay10.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay15.jpg

While we were there, I also picked up a chromo output shaft for the t-cases to help avoid any breakage on the trail which could leave me with only FWD or no power at all. It seemed like a worthwhile upgrade. . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay16.jpg

[Revivalist]

The 2WD to 4WD adaptor is actually only the second to be sold thus far. It basically consisted of two pieces . . . a replacement tail housing for the tranny and an adaptor that can be a clocked to 10 degrees. Here’s AJ installing it . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay23.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay30.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay31.jpg


So that was about it for today. There’s quite a bit more work that needs to be done but Aj plans on working on it through the week so unfortunately I won’t be there to keep taking progress pics. But it’ll hopefully be done by next weekend and I’ll take pics of the end result. . . .

In the meantime, I’m trying to choose some tires to order up so we can put them on and check for any rubbing before I take it. I’d like to run 38” mud terrains. My current rims are 16x8 but I’m willing to sell them and pick up new ones if needed. . . .

Can anyone offer some suggestions concerning tires? . . . Thanks!

[Arya Ebrahimi]

I would get away from 16" rims while you can. Options are limited and they're expensive. I would switch to either 17's or 15's. 17's aren't necessarily cheaper than 16's, but there are a lot more choices when you decided to upgrade/switch tires in the future.

Also, what are your uses? 95% DD, 5% offroad? What kind of offroad? Sand, mud, rocks, dirt? All of these will factor in.

[GA86yota]

when did they start making TRD AIR LOCKERS?:confused:


hell if i know the guy i bought it from said it was a TRD air locker and when i got home i put a valve stem on the air line and put some air in it and it works really good...i gave $175 for it so i couldnt pass it up

it looks nothing like an ARB...it has a locking ring around the side where the ring gear is and when air is put to it it locks

[ErikB]

Sounds like you're well on your way now. Jim should be stoked I told you to call him, LOL (and so should you it sounds like).

Seems like you wanted it to be good on the street, so stick with radials. I love my 37" MTR's (available for 15 or 17" wheels, but the 17's are more expensive). I think Toyo makes some 38's, but I have no experience with them. America's tire sells a great road hazard waranty too. :D

[Revivalist]

I would get away from 16" rims while you can. Options are limited and they're expensive. I would switch to either 17's or 15's. 17's aren't necessarily cheaper than 16's, but there are a lot more choices when you decided to upgrade/switch tires in the future.

Also, what are your uses? 95% DD, 5% offroad? What kind of offroad? Sand, mud, rocks, dirt? All of these will factor in.Yeah, I was thinking that I'm going to have to get new rims. It's kind of a shame b/c I got these rims only a few months ago. I choses 16"s because that's what the stock rims were and I didn't see any reason to change sizes. . . . I guess I'll have to try to sell these. . . .

As for my tires use, it will probably be 80% road use, 15% rock crawling, and 5% others (such as sand, mud, and snow) . . .

I think I would like something that has a sh