I want to thank Jeremy at Area BFE for one of the best events I have ever went to. It was a blast. It was nice to compete w/ everyone w/ no purse and added stress. I will be talking about my race w/ Rob for awhile. I hate to type so I'll let Jeremy explain.....he'll be on here soon I'm sure.

I just got back, and I have about a gig of pictures to go through. This was one crazy event, thanks Jeremy and congratulations to Nate. When I get back from work today I will host up the pics, anyone who wasn't there will think that they are doctored photos. What a fun event. Thanks again Jeremy and everyone who came and trashed their rigs for a good cause.

Let's see the pic's of JT jumping over Brice's rig:D

Thanks Jeremy for the great event. We had a blast bumping/nurfing Craig Zellar and Jeremy on the crawl course. Hope we get invited back next year.

Congrats to Nate.

Keep in mind when you hear the stories, this was not an event for money or anything like this. It was a fun event put on by some great people.

If this was done as a regular event, the rigs/specs/insurance would be a whole new game.

I'll let the pics and people running it fill you in as all I keep hearing is "WHAT A BLAST!", but I want to be sure people understnad, this was an invitational for fun, for bragging, and for letting Bonney show BZ his moonbuggy ain't nothin compared to a 4 seater!

Jeremy, nothin but great reports comin my way...sure wish I had been there but I had a steel lady pinning me in the garage :dustin:...CONGRATS!

Any pics or scores?

Keep in mind when you hear the stories, this was not an event for money or anything like this. It was a fun event put on by some great people.

If this was done as a regular event, the rigs/specs/insurance would be a whole new game.

I'll let the pics and people running it fill you in as all I keep hearing is "WHAT A BLAST!", but I want to be sure people understnad, this was an invitational for fun, for bragging, and for letting Bonney show BZ his moonbuggy ain't nothin compared to a 4 seater!

Jeremy, nothin but great reports comin my way...sure wish I had been there but I had a steel lady pinning me in the garage :dustin:...CONGRATS!


We trashed our rig but left w/ the biggest smile. I think I actually out jumped the taco.....in the rockcrawler. Where else can you ram a 3 day old rig and the guy smile at ya... Sorry Rob but you where in the way.

Hey Rob...yes, I have the keys to RJ's shop...you did get that truckload of diahrea laden goats on it's way to Farmington didn't you???

what a blast, I'm glad nobody made fun of my driving well except for Cottin. racing through those trees brought back avalanche rock racing days that was the best. thanks for a great time jeremy and area bfe.

oh yeah, were talking about hosting same event here in cortez, chief of the battle rock anybody interested ? crawl course on the rock side that we use for xrra and the race course right behind the spectators through the wash and empty pond and trees.................

Went out to BFE today to bring Jeremys bus home, and ended up spending a hour walking through changes for the next go around. I had a blast judging, and watching rigs getting hammered for the pure joy of doing so!:grinpimp:

oh yeah, were talking about hosting same event here in cortez, chief of the battle rock anybody interested ? crawl course on the rock side that we use for xrra and the race course right behind the spectators through the wash and empty pond and trees.................

Would love too....we just need to be invited :flipoff2:

Thank you to everyone who raced, attended and helped out. Our staff handled things so well and our judges, well, for being a hodge-podge of great guys and beer drinkers, YOU RULED!

Before I post finishing standings I have to say a special thanks to our judges,
Andy Muir
Cris Crane
George Sieler
"M" Pepper
Clifton Slay
Chub
Mac Hansen
The hot ass girls
Erik Shellenberger
Mike Weaver
Buzz from Trucks TV ( on Speed TV)
and a few others I cannot remember their names.

You guys showed up and flat out kept the show going. Absolutely the best judging crew ever. Complete with heckling drivers and throwing cones at them.

Now for the finishing standings... Wait for it...

1. Nate Williams
2. Parker Gerret
3. Rick Dermo
4. Rob Bonney
5. Brandon Johnson
6. JT Taylor
7. Bryce Rogers
8. Randy Rodd

Other DNF's

Jason Fuielly (Killed the entire rear of his car by jumping off the wall. On purpose! Jason is a total bad ass!)
Randy Ellis (Ripped a motor mount coming up short on the double. Commenced to drinking beer shortly after and helped judge the event.)
Curtis McNeil ( broke a high steer arm flying further than anyone on the "Hick High jump". The one we had the jump off on during Easter. P.S. He flew further than Lucero did!)
Josh Ayers (Pulled off the most insane run and then broke in the middle of a bitchin save.)
Bruce Zeller (He only ran one course and let George run the second)
And that Damn Craig Zeller. He got last for being a dumb ass and almost killing me! (Never, NEVER, Ride with this man!) LOL.

There were a couple hiccups during the day but over all it was the best event ever for many people.

These guys did come out for nothing other than respect and the chance to bring home the title "King of Area BFE". Dustin you are right that many things were different except one point. Insurance. I will put ours up against any promoter out there. Yes it covers side by side and heads up racing! And yes, it could be used for a series! It is however, very expensive. But it covers drivers from the liability of screwing the pooch and hurting someone. We didn't take chances. But knowing such policies are available is a wonderful thing and proves to me that some people are willing to put others on the line to save a buck. (Insinuate what you want here.)

All in all we will have photos to post as they come in. Video clips are coming via RP Films.

Very special thanks to Pat and John for catching the action on video.
Huge thanks to CRAWL Mag for coming out and also featuring the winner.

Extremely big thanks to everyone here at Pirate for helping get the word out.
Laters, Jeremy

Dustin you are right that many things were different except one point. Insurance. I will put ours up against any promoter out there. Yes it covers side by side and heads up racing!
My only insurance point is right now, the buggies are not set up for heads up. Craig Zellar's machine with a tire coming through the door opening could easilly mean death...his rig is just one example of so many rockcrawlers that were designed for another purpose. A major injury from something like this would damage just about every form of rock-related motorsports from an insurable standpoint. If the cages were designed for this type of thing (two rigs on the same course), it would be entirely different.

Other than that, I'm stoked everyone had such a great time and am truly bummed we weren't able to make it.

I was out spectating and had a great time and look forward to check it out next year! Thanks to everyone that made it happen.

Need Raven Stout ale on-hand next time from Moab Brewery though. :flipoff2:

Let's see the pic's of JT jumping over Brice's rig

I have some video of that, I don't know that you can make out anything from the cloud of dust though. :smokin:

Just a couple of clips I drug off the camcorder...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/corn_smuggler/video/th_clip2.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/corn_smuggler/video/?action=view&current=clip2.flv)

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/corn_smuggler/video/th_clip1.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/corn_smuggler/video/?action=view&current=clip1.flv)

Some pipes of course! :flipoff2:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/corn_smuggler/video/th_clip3_pipes.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/corn_smuggler/video/?action=view&current=clip3_pipes.flv)

Let's see the pic's of JT jumping over Brice's rig:D

Ask and ye shall receive.:D

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k255/zukiester1/DSC_0140.jpg

Here is another pic. From the first jump, opposite side.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k255/zukiester1/DSC_0139-1.jpg


I hope to be home soon enough to get the rest up.

Kiddos for making this a charity event, raising funds for the Children's Lukemia Fund. Jacque and I were more than happy to come and support BFE plus write a nice cheque for the kids.

The biggest flaw of the event from our spectator's standpoint was the long and boring periods of time between races.
I'm sure the crews and organizers had a blast, wrecking eight of the entries the day before then drinking in the bars all night but you'll have to muster quite a few more rigs next time to make the event memorable to the folks who came to be entertained.
Allowing the coarses to be pre-run the day before robbed the crowd of much of the action and carnage they came and paid for. Those eight broken rigs plus fill ins for the no show invitees would have made a big difference in giving the event a better pace.

Man Jeremy what an event. Had some of the best action in all of rockcrawling.
It was the most relaxed event I have ever been to and to see the guys and gals having has much fun as they were....It was like the old trail days. Johnny and I had a great time and cant say thank you enough Jeremy for the invite. We cant wait for next year.

All the action will be in Halin or Crawlin 4

Here's that second pic with a little lightening.

[QUOTE=RedBullJeep] the buggies are not set up for heads up. Craig Zellar's machine with a tire coming through the door opening could easily mean death...his rig is just one example of so many rockcrawlers that were designed for another purpose. A major injury from something like this would damage just about every form of rock-related motorsports from an insurable standpoint. If the cages were designed for this type of thing (two rigs on the same course)

I can really see your point, I'm against putting a rope on a rig and having my friend hold on to it as I climb a large wall that i have a big chance of rolling over on him. whats the chance of rolling over and having a boulder or a large rock come through the window or roof and hurt someone ? I was one of the only two seater's that got paired up against a single seater, Brandon Johnson. Brandon lost his throttle cable from the beginning so this put me right on behind him to were we would make contact sooner or later through out the course , which we did along with Jason Feuilly VS Curtis McNiel and they hit hard it was great racing, RJ and Rob Bonney and even BZ's moon buggy against Parker Gerret's moon buggy. we have footage of everybody hitting and shoving there way through the tight section and it was nothing but great action and as safe as anything else we do at any other event, but twice as fun !!!! we are trying to get it posted up but i don't think pirate will let us. we will try and update our account to post it, it is good action. to see Parker and BZ's brother getting it heads up in a moon buggy is something else.

[QUOTE=RedBullJeep] the buggies are not set up for heads up. Craig Zellar's machine with a tire coming through the door opening could easily mean death...his rig is just one example of so many rockcrawlers that were designed for another purpose. A major injury from something like this would damage just about every form of rock-related motorsports from an insurable standpoint. If the cages were designed for this type of thing (two rigs on the same course)

I can really see your point, I'm against putting a rope on a rig and having my friend hold on to it as I climb a large wall that i have a big chance of rolling over on him. whats the chance of rolling over and having a boulder or a large rock come through the window or roof and hurt someone ? I was one of the only two seater's that got paired up against a single seater, Brandon Johnson. Brandon lost his throttle cable from the beginning so this put me right on behind him to were we would make contact sooner or later through out the course , which we did along with Jason Feuilly VS Curtis McNiel and they hit hard it was great racing, RJ and Rob Bonney and even BZ's moon buggy against Parker Gerret's moon buggy. we have footage of everybody hitting and shoving there way through the tight section and it was nothing but great action and as safe as anything else we do at any other event, but twice as fun !!!! we are trying to get it posted up but i don't think pirate will let us. we will try and update our account to post it, it is good action. to see Parker and BZ's brother getting it heads up in a moon buggy is something else.

whats the chance of rolling over and having a boulder or a large rock come through the window or roof and hurt someone ?
Far less than a tire that is spinning, and tearing, and hooking left to right as the rigs are stuck together....
CORR trucks are designed to bump and rub and have window openings and cockpits designed specifically this...most rockcrawlers are not.

As for ropes, we've been against them from the beginning.

Quote from a driver competing last weekend..."We bumped so hard I slammed into him and he carried my tire on top of his for at least 30 feet but we didn't let up as I wasn't gonna let him get the best of me!" That same person went on to tell me other sories that were similar of other people's runs with impacts and tires in the air and on top of other's...wow, it was exciting, it surely was. Definitly fun and definitly something that MOST of these rigs are not designed for safetywise. There needs to be a balance if anyone has any intentions of making this a regular thing.

Here's some pics before the jump, then 2 vids of JT jumping the gap-



http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/7478/1001931mediumzv3.jpg

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/9522/1001932mediumnz6.jpg


1st run-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmXSFUD7bGw

2nd run-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkW0EJjDGZE

Good stuff, i am bummed i never made it out there, i was on pritchet all day sun :smokin:

That was a great event jeremy and the coverage in CRAWL is gonna be sick. Thanks again for the invite and hookup on lodging.

To the guy who kept asking my girlfriend to go to the hotel with him, (I know who you are) she said the only reason she said no is the gap in your teeth skird her and she knew your cawk is smaller than mine so why bother :flipoff2:

Well for safety..... As always we will need to work on some things but Jeremy did try his best. He personally set up rigs that where equal(moon buggy to moon buggy) and so on. I don't think any of the drivers felt in danger. One bonus on racing rockcrawlers we just can't go that fast. YET.. You would b more likely to get hurt goin to the mall. Just think about a excursion hitting a VW bug. With my race w/ Rob there was no way for a tire to go into our rigs. So like i said Jeremy did the right thing in pairing us all up. No lottery draws.

Damn, I wish I could make time for some of this racing! That looks like such a blast.
Dustin I don't believe anyone questions your commitment or passion for our sport and I respect your opinion on the saftey of this type of event but it appears to me they have thier bases covered on liability and are making their own choices as most grown ups do. I was freaked out to no end about the two girls that where run over at a major event years ago and events are still going strong.
( I may be wrong) It appears from what I am reading that you are against this type of event? I think this is just the shot in the arm the sport needs and have not been this excited about rockcrawling (racing) since 1999.
Window nets and some chassis minimum requirements might be in order. What is your concern? Personally I would take a long hard look at promoting an event ever again due to liability(of course my parties are not much better so go figure), but I damn sure would like to have a chance to drive in an event like that! That sh!t kicks a$$!

This is not an attack on Dustin I am really interested in what his concern is because I have read many posts by him over the years concerning branding an image for the sport and things he see's he does not agree with.( Some I don't agree with others I do) Dustin told me back when we had CRCA that our style was a few years too early but would see growth in the coming years. Seems he was right. Is it the Ins. thats the problem? The verticle gunite crawling looks like as big a liability if not more to me??


Rock racing rules, you guys keep up the good work and bring that show to So Cal some day!

To the guy who kept asking my girlfriend to go to the hotel with him, (I know who you are) she said the only reason she said no is the gap in your teeth skird her and she knew your cawk is smaller than mine so why bother :flipoff2:

Its that old man Danny Grimes you gotta watch your woman around that old fart is smooth!:D

Jeff, in all of my posts, I have said that this time and in this situation, things went well. I would even have participated myself if I had the chance.
In the same breath, I offer a warning that anyone thinking they can do this as a regular event without setting some serious safety and chassis standards puts the sport and its participants at a hgiher risk than the payoff offers.

I've said it before, it's not the first time this concept has been approached, but to make it a regular event is a whole new game...especially when it comes to insurance, and more importantly, lives.

There are ways to make this work, but let's not get hasty and move too quickly and get someone killed. A rock coming through a cage could smash someone, but most likely would only break a bone or two. A spinning tire thrashing around is a whole different animal. Cottin's rig, RJ's rig, Bonney's rig, and a number of other machines would be decently safe as they are built for a balance of safety and competition. You cannot say that for the majority of machines and that is something to really think about.

Dustin I hope that you and everybody else don't think I was attacking your opinion, cuz I agree this sport is going to happen [or change and progress] quicker than the rigs and everybody is ready for.I was just talking about this weekend also. I am going to try and put up a video from this weekend on my web site that shows most of the action. all I really want to say is that Cottin and I never felt in danger on any of the courses. I know our rig is alot differnt than most. not only do I think Jeremy did a great job this weekend but I think he went the extra mile to make sure it wasn't to out of hand. all I was trying to say earlier is that there isn't anything in crawl'n, racing, any of the rock motorsports that is safe. a moon buggy isn't safe period.. Dermo breaking his arm in moab is a great example. I don't care who wants the fame for saying they started rock racing, XRRA has pushed it to new heights and side by side racing is next, new rig or not i am in and hooked, but as a builder saftey is first for us too.
dustin if you guys decide to build a racer i will have a tranny ready for you and what ever else we can help with.........much love....Randy and Cottin

Dustin, you have very valid points. I agree to them for the most part. I think that your approach here was the real issue. Sometimes simple things said can be taken offensive, especially when they come from someone who is very often seen as the self proclaimed advocate for Rock Crawling. I mean to say that in a good way so don't get too upset. The problem is you posted things pointing out issues without even considering one notion. Most people are not stupid. If you think those things were not addressed and the risk weighed against the people attending, you are mistaken. I come from a family of racers. Combined we have literally a couple hundred years of promoting stock cars, sprint cars, motorcycles, motocross, freestyle, concerts, skateboard competitions etc. As with anything, there is risk. We can point fingers all day long at how this should be done and how that should be done. Bottom line is this wasn't my first rodeo. Just my first on my own doing a crawling based comp. Fine suggestions are easily taken as all knowingness. Just think about that.
Once you explained your point in your post, I left it alone. I just told myself, well he hasn't ever spoken to me about the topic so he knows nothing of my own concerns. Yes, to all, Dustin has valid points. To compare this to any other sport here in this forum is stupid. As with anything new you must address the concerns and create whatever fail safes you can. Learn from others, but don't quote it as law. Starting from scratch is a great approach. Just covering all the bases can be difficult and really we need posts like this if for no other reason than to re assure that our concerns are valid.
Safety is a concern. But don't think that the atmosphere we had last weekend was all get drunk and get stupid. The illusion of expressing "good times" on the screen is the only misleading thing here.

We are not idiots. We are friends that share a common need to do what we love. Wheeling just happens to be the excuse for it.

As for the timing of the show and keeping the crowd involved, it is difficult. Just know that the major reason was because of safety concerns. We had some long courses, if someone happened to be standing in the wrong place when the flag dropped, they might have been killed. Seeing this being posted here is good. It will only force improvements for the next time. As far as recovery time lost, I thought BZ did a great job of entertaining everyone while they waited. The small running field was great. It allowed people to show up at 2 and leave by 6. A four-hour show was a point that many said they loved. I hope that we can pack more into that time at future venues. If you wish to see more I invite you come and check out practice next time! It was free admission. In practice we actually weeded out a couple things like dysfunctional cars, which could have been a safety issue! So add that to the aforementioned paragraph. It will back up the fact that we planned ahead.

Rock on,
Jeremy

To the guy who kept asking my girlfriend to go to the hotel with him, (I know who you are) she said the only reason she said no is the gap in your teeth skird her and she knew your cawk is smaller than mine so why bother :flipoff2:


Sorry bro,
I didn't realize she was taken

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2005/12/21/1135185219_5392.jpg






:flipoff2:

Jeremy,
All along, I've said I heard you did your best to make it safe and at the same time, have told people this event was for fun and would be a special event, not a new series. I don't have a problem at all with what you have done.

At the same time, the safety issues are many if this is to be a regular thing. Last year, Lil Rich asked some teams if we would like to run this kind of format. The answer from us was, "though it would be a blast, the rigs as they are are not ready". UROC made an announcement that they would do the same thing in just a couple of months and begin a series of same course events. Many teams said the same thing...though it would be fun, the rigs, on average, are not ready. UROC still has not answered with their plans but that event is coming soon. It is an issue and is bigger than your event.

For the last time, I don't have a problem with what you did...I've said that time and time again. I would have been there with you and joined in. However, until a set of vehicle standards and safety rules are developed for this type of racing, it should remain a once-in-awhile, standalone, event for fun...put money, sponsors, and season points on the line, and drivers will completely disregard their competitors and lives will be at risk...again, review the first sentance of this paragraph..."I don't have a problem with what you did Jeremy."

As for being an advocate for rockcrawling...I am an advocate for rockracing as well and playing that role, it would be foolish for me not to address this very important issue. If UROC sees that this weekend was a success, they just might disregard the many pleas from team, including those competing at your event, to NOT do two rigs on the same course for their "money/sponsors/points events". It would be moving too fast into a dangerous game.

How about less talk, more pictures?

BTW Dustin, that pic was supposed to be dark, but thanks for feeling like it needed some of your quality time.:D


http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k255/zukiester1/DSC_0048.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k255/zukiester1/DSC_0049.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k255/zukiester1/DSC_0050.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k255/zukiester1/DSC_0051.jpg

I listened to everybody's good and bad points...the bottom line is the event was held, it is over...the competitors AND spectators had a BLAST without a doubt!!! We all need to remember we grew up with lead based paint, slept on our tummies as babies, rode to town without car seats or seat belts, use cell phones while pumping gas and guess what?!?!?! We're still alive!!!!!! There are many risks we all take each and every day we get up to do something as simple as going to work BUT we still do it!!! (Let me light my lighter and hold it above my head before I go on)...My name is Cottin and I am an addict, the adrenaline of the sport because there IS a form of danger, the fellow competitors for their TRUE passion for the sport, and the spectators for there loud and dedicated noise for the sport!!!!!
Thank you, Thank you very much.......I think Jeremy and everyone involved to help did a kick ass job!!!!!
Love, Cottie Rodd

Bring it to the West Coast! :smokin:

One of the teams Dustin is talking about is ours. We will not run the UROC event because of the safety issues that I have addressed and had no answers too. I'm ran Jeremy's event because he he went out of his way on safety(for what he had to work with) and the teams he chose to run. This event was a learning event for all of us. One too build on. The UROC event will have huge spectators and have a huge liability if something goes wrong. UROC not putting things out on the table scares me. Jeremy from the begining told us his ideas and what he was trying to do. And asked us all for imput before and after seeing the courses for anything we saw wrong. In his case it looked safe and in the end was. For this event. He knows and the teams that ran know that if this was to go on that safety rules would have to be enhanced.

I listened to everybody's good and bad points...the bottom line is the event was held, it is over...the competitors AND spectators had a BLAST without a doubt!!! We all need to remember we grew up with lead based paint, slept on our tummies as babies, rode to town without car seats or seat belts, use cell phones while pumping gas and guess what?!?!?! We're still alive!!!!!! There are many risks we all take each and every day we get up to do something as simple as going to work BUT we still do it!!! (Let me light my lighter and hold it above my head before I go on)...My name is Cottin and I am an addict, the adrenaline of the sport because there IS a form of danger, the fellow competitors for their TRUE passion for the sport, and the spectators for there loud and dedicated noise for the sport!!!!!
Thank you, Thank you very much.......I think Jeremy and everyone involved to help did a kick ass job!!!!!
Love, Cottie Rodd

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im gonna start going to the church of COTTIN!!!
JT

Fuck I wish I coulda been there to see this shit!! I KNEW anything Jeremy's twisted m ind could come up with would be absolutely insane!! HAIL, brutha man!! http://jeepin.net/forum/images/smilies/rock.gif

Insurance, saftey, shitty rigs, bla bla bla .........
There's only a single point needed, nobody has a gun to their head to run. We're all adults and can make our own choices. This whole event was about two things, pushing the limits and fun. Jeremy did as much if not more than any promoter has ever done in this sport to protect the fans. Racers in my opinion are on their own. Freedom to recklessly endanger yourself is a basic personal right. Jumping off a cliff with nothing but a speedo on ,seems way more dangerous than racing around a track next to ( fill in any name you'd like). Freedom of choice is the back bone of the American way of life, there are more than enough people telling me how to live already. It was a great event/ weekend and thats all that matters !!:grinpimp:

I agreee with it being someone's choice to put their life in danger or not. I just don't want to be the guy that kills them because there rig was not built with safety in mind. Jumping in a speedo, will only jepordize one persons life...the person jumping.
I will swap metal with RJ and ram the crap out of JT all day long and not think twice about it, but if I was racing next to Rick D. or Weston...I would be nervous I could stuff a tire into their cage and seriously injure them.
I have talked to quite few people who were there and it sounds like Jeremy did a kick ass job and really kept safety as a main priority. I can't wait to race at the next one!!!

A tire might get stuck in my window but you would have to catch me first for that to happen, and I would have to let you take a shot at me with out advasive action. Look at the crawl events going on right now more guys have injured their arms by rolling on them then anyone getting burnt, but next year fire suits are the thing. Window nets should be on every crawler and the window size should be smaller to not allow rocks, trees or any other objects to enter the drivers compartment. Take for instant Marty Harts car those windows are BIG. F1 racing the drivers head sticks out of the car with a roll bar behind his head but still a cars tire, wing or what ever else flys off of another car could take the drivers head off. Risks are in every sport. You know what our crawlers would look like if OSHA had a say in their design.

Rubbing and bumping will only work in events where their is no money up for grabs. Once money is involved then you will see teams taking out other teams to win the all mighty dollar.

Enough said, this horse has been beat to death many times over.



Lets Race.

Rick, you are my new hero. when moon buggy's started coming out it was to push the racing/crawling that much harder.seems like moon buggy's is were the concern is. I looked through all my crawl mags last night and I don't think most of the windows are as small as everybody thinks, what I see on most single seater's is that the driver sits to one side, put another bar on that side and climb through the other side. I don't see in building a whole new rig unless you want to. there are a few w/ large windows and I don't think that they are really interested in racing from what we can tell. side by side racing is that next push in the industry. we want in, were ready. the media in Pomona could also help this industry also, look at the good and step forward..............look at what Nascar drivers make this is way more exciting. man made crawl courses has not took off like everybody thought. RACING,RACING,RACING that is what the spectators want to see, JT flying, Rick blasting hard and fast w/ a catch me scream, Jason berger full throttle to get turned back around, Jason Feuilly blasting and jumping off of rock ledges and I hate to say it but watching us flip upside down at full throttle.............give it a Chance and i know spectators would pile in to see it...............RANDY

You are right Jason, I would feel nervous racing against you, JT, the Rodds, anyone with a larger rig. If head to head racing is the next thing then there HAS to be classes. If I was in a big two seater, I certainly wouldn't want to get tangled with a low moonbuggy on fear of hurting the driver.

Nets are a good rule, in fact the little orange midget will be sporting a set next weekend in Cedar. But in my opinion and experience with nets they are not designed to keep a tire from entering the cab. They are designed to keep things in the cab, me, my arms, from going outside the cab. Trees and rocks may also be kept away from the driver. But a 40" tire being propelled by a 3000 lbs, 450 HP rock buggy is going through, net or no net.

The only thing that I can think of right now, with head to head racing, is classes.

Hey Rick, wanna race?

Just got back from my shop where I tried to stuff a 40 bfg throught my drivers side window(right side of car) I could only get it to protrude 4 inches in with 4lbs of air, the 37 would go in a total 7". On the left side of the car where my window is larger I could only get a 37" swamper in 13", and with me in the car it was still 10" from my shoulder. Both were done straight on not a a side glance which would happen when racing.

MyTH BUSTED :D

Just got back from my shop where I tried to stuff a 40 bfg throught my drivers side window(right side of car) I could only get it to protrude 4 inches in with 4lbs of air, the 37 would go in a total 7". On the left side of the car where my window is larger I could only get a 37" swamper in 13", and with me in the car it was still 10" from my shoulder. Both were done straight on not a a side glance which would happen when racing.

MyTH BUSTED :D

but would it get you if you were wearing a speedo?? :laughing:







good to see some constructive discussion about this... sitting back with my popcorn and watching :D

Would love too....we just need to be invited :flipoff2:

YOUR FIRST ON THE LIST...........

side by side racing is that next push in the industry.

Not too many people like to go slow, and get technical, like us crawls... people like to go FAST, and watch others going fast. NASCAR has about run it's term, and it's time to move on, so where do we go? Well many people like watching monster trucks run over shit, so why not combine both worlds, and have big tired vehicles that have the capability of running over eachother in a sense, race side by side?!? It's a pretty big given that THIS is what people are gonna want to see, as Randy said!

And if you guys are worried about tires fittin in yur cages, add another goddamn bar in there or man up and get some bigger tires on the rigs! Buggies with 46s, 47s and 49s will go over eachother and put on a better show than buggies with 40s!! :flipoff2:

One of the teams Dustin is talking about is ours. We will not run the UROC event because of the safety issues that I have addressed and had no answers too. I'm ran Jeremy's event because he he went out of his way on safety(for what he had to work with) and the teams he chose to run. This event was a learning event for all of us. One too build on. The UROC event will have huge spectators and have a huge liability if something goes wrong.

UROC not putting things out on the table scares me.

Jeremy from the begining told us his ideas and what he was trying to do. And asked us all for imput before and after seeing the courses for anything we saw wrong. In his case it looked safe and in the end was. For this event. He knows and the teams that ran know that if this was to go on that safety rules would have to be enhanced.

Does uroc require window nets? how about submarine straps? do they still let you use ropes? i really don't know the answers to those questions anymore, but i know they didn't in the past--and all should really be a basic requirement. my feeling is uroc just often doesn't seem to ever really make sense---it is a moot point arguing about uroc.

Anyhow, jeremy's event was safe and fun and exciting- so we will see a progression of these types of events--because everyone loves racing-even if it is against a clock. And everyone worrying about a tire in the window??? all you do is add a bar and nonproblem is solved. sprint car guys, short course guys--open wheel buggies in score--indy cars---i mean jeez people lightn up-racing is dangerous-it up to you to keep it safe.

p.s.--i don't even understand what the big deal is--where i come from that's just how we wheel--full throttle, racing each other and using them for brakes when they go too slow. hell, i nerfed parkers truck and trailer on the highway home cuz they were going too slow:)
rob bonney

I think the reason for the disussion is just to make sure everyone is on the same page. If you feel your rig is safe then I believe you. A post like this makes me think a little harder about making sure I am safe in my rig and hopefully everyone else thinks of different scenario's and makes adjustments to thier rigs. For example....Rick has now taken a 40" tire and tried to stuff it in his cage. Awesome!
I have been wanting side by side forever. I can't wait!
We race like this everytime we wheel. To me, the funnest time at the Hammers is from the dry lake bed to the trail.

Jumping in a speedo, will only jepordize one persons life...the person jumping.
Just to make sure there is no confusion -- I, for one, am VERY grateful that Dustin elected to wear his speedo safety suit. Without it, I am certain many would have immediately been forced to gouge out their own eyes. :eek:

Randii

Just got back from my shop where I tried to stuff a 40 bfg throught my drivers side window(right side of car) I could only get it to protrude 4 inches in with 4lbs of air, the 37 would go in a total 7". On the left side of the car where my window is larger I could only get a 37" swamper in 13", and with me in the car it was still 10" from my shoulder. Both were done straight on not a a side glance which would happen when racing.

MyTH BUSTED :D

Ok tires are a big deal. But just think if my race truck hit you hard or even landed on you. I win You lose. My truck is just to big and heavy for a 1"1/2 pipe buggy. So classes would help a lot on saftey. O-ya I know....... Thats if I actually catch you!:D

My truck is just a big cruise ship. D



their fixed it for ya

All Im going to say is you all suck and Im just pissed cause I wasnt there to see it firsthand!

I have read many of the posts on this. The statement and statements about leadbase paints and all of that is just simply ridiculous!! We no longer use them because we KNOW BETTER. This is a SUE happy world sooner or later something will happen and someone will SUE. It may not be a competitor or a spectator, It will be a family member that only knows someone died and they want retribution. The lawyers don't give two shits about signed waivers.
Then its to late. At that point things will change. Its hard enough for We-rock, Uroc, and so on to get insurance now. How available do you think it will be after a big lawsuit. It won't !

Next myth busted my butt. Were any of those tires attached to a 3500lb rig traveling at 40mph. I doubt it. So your tests were far from accurate!!

I was not there but 2 open wheeled rigs running through rough terrain at high speeds hitting one another sounds like a BAD idea. How far away are the spectators kept. If a rig gets bumped at 40+mph and goes flipping off course how much room is there. Sprint car and Nascar tracks have very high fences not banner tape. If someone gets hurt who is liable? Driver of the rig that flipped or the driver of the rig that hit him and caused the rollover. It seems to me that a whole bunch of NEW variables have been added to a sport that allready has more variables than it can handle now. I don't care to give a spectator my rig, hauler, house, car and my wages for the next ten years.

Put this type of event in a stadium, take the spectators out of the picture and things look a whole lot safer, at least to me. Driver and spotter signed up for what ever happens. The spectators signed up to see a show. Not get runover or hit by flying parts.

I personaly feel the way most of you do. Lets go tear some shit up. However the reality of things usally makes that statement a bad thing.

[QUOTE=unimo Next myth busted my butt. Were any of those tires attached to a 3500lb rig traveling at 40mph. I doubt it. So your tests were far from accurate!!
QUOTE]

The tires were atached to a 4000lb rig.

1) The test was to see if I could STUFF the tire in the Opening on my crawler and not anyone else's......

4 lbs of air was used to simulate the tire compressing in the window, since 9 to 15 pounds of air is used when racing depending on car weight and courses.

2) The race courses in question DID NOT ALLOW FOR STAIGHT ON RAMMING, the bumping was from the sides and if you did get side ways your speed would be dropped by an average of around 36%. We have done these test using a radiar gun and 35mph as our speed to see how much speed was shaved off doing power slides with several of our buggys. Power sliding isnt alwasys the fastest way around a courner. We test to win.

any sport has its risks. Risks are a part of life and thats what makes life worth living.

I have read many of the posts on this. The statement and statements about leadbase paints and all of that is just simply ridiculous!! We no longer use them because we KNOW BETTER. This is a SUE happy world sooner or later something will happen and someone will SUE. It may not be a competitor or a spectator, It will be a family member that only knows someone died and they want retribution. The lawyers don't give two shits about signed waivers.
Then its to late. At that point things will change. Its hard enough for We-rock, Uroc, and so on to get insurance now. How available do you think it will be after a big lawsuit. It won't !

Next myth busted my butt. Were any of those tires attached to a 3500lb rig traveling at 40mph. I doubt it. So your tests were far from accurate!!



I was not there


but 2 open wheeled rigs running through rough terrain at high speeds hitting one another sounds like a BAD idea. How far away are the spectators kept. If a rig gets bumped at 40+mph and goes flipping off course how much room is there. Sprint car and Nascar tracks have very high fences not banner tape. If someone gets hurt who is liable? Driver of the rig that flipped or the driver of the rig that hit him and caused the rollover. It seems to me that a whole bunch of NEW variables have been added to a sport that allready has more variables than it can handle now. I don't care to give a spectator my rig, hauler, house, car and my wages for the next ten years.

Put this type of event in a stadium, take the spectators out of the picture and things look a whole lot safer, at least to me. Driver and spotter signed up for what ever happens. The spectators signed up to see a show. Not get runover or hit by flying parts.

I personaly feel the way most of you do. Lets go tear some shit up. However the reality of things usally makes that statement a bad thing.


spectators were far from any courses, much much safer than your typical crawling event. and spectators are aware of the risks at any motorsport-- don't monster trucks, sprintcars, nascar all occasionally take some fans out? what about rally cars-or trophy trucks on zoo road??

i just wish people would take some accountability for their actions. i really don't believe living our lives in fear of lawyers is the right thing to do...maybe what we have to do-- It just doesn't seem right to decide it was a bad idea based off of comments on the internet. This is a rockcrawling site- not Nader.com.

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=34zimvb

"I just wish people would take some accountability for their actions"

That right there is the problem at hand. Nobody is willing to take responsability. Most lawsuits should never go to court! They are completely asinine. The most famous being the Mcdonalds lawsuit. No we should not have to live in fear of the lawyers and lawsuits but it is a fact/reality of today.

I am in the process of setting up a new automotive repair shop. In my lease it states how much insurance coverage I must have.
1 millon in liability, Ok makes sense.
2 millon in aggregate coverage. Seams excessive but ok.
3 million in an umbrella policy.
Thats 6 million in insurance coverage on a 4 bay repair shop. The building could collaps on 10- $50,000 cars and it would only cost 1.5 million or so to pay for the land, building, cars, all of the equipment, loss of wages and rent. So I asked them why I needed 6 million in coverage. I was told because it is a sue happy world!!, and thats the figures there lawyers have come up with to make sure they are covered.

I am all for open and constructive critism of any event when safety is involved. However, having said the previous, lets not forget that it requires that you be there first hand if you are to make educated critism of said event.

Carry on... :flipoff2:

hell people can sue me.....i have lots of bills they are welcome to them. Just let me tell you a story from a friend that has owned a successful bar. Always rent.... its a write off..... and never have a lot of insurance. If you protect yourself to good you give a lawyer a reason to sue. They are in it for the money and if there isn't much there to take they will send it down the road. He's a millionaire....

hell people can sue me.....i have lots of bills they are welcome to them. Just let me tell you a story from a friend that has owned a successful bar. Always rent.... its a write off..... and never have a lot of insurance. If you protect yourself to good you give a lawyer a reason to sue. They are in it for the money and if there isn't much there to take they will send it down the road. He's a millionaire....

Must not be doing biz in Kalifornia.:D