I've had this big mofo laying around for a couple years now (ever since a buddy decided he didn't want it laying around his garage anymore and sent it home with me). I'm toying with the idea of using it for an on board welder.

It's a 145 amp alternator, but I have no idea if it's internally or externally regulated. IHC part number is 585948 C91.

Here's some pics:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=262102&stc=1&d=1157506713
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=262103&stc=1&d=1157506713
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=262104&stc=1&d=1157506713

Anybody here know???

That looks internally regulated to me.

That looks internally regulated to me.

x2

The ribbed section along with the white plastic connection block.

Hmmmm.... wonder how I'd go about bypassing the regulator....

I feel some exploratory surgery in it's future.:D

http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/on-board-welder.html

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/on-boardwelder/

These were great places to start....

This was best for me:

http://www.trailhed.com/welding.html

I cannot figure out where to put it without redoing my pulleys....to much trouble

It is internaly regulated, or can be external if needed.

I feel its a Leece Neville badged with an IH (from how the reg is mounted) which in my opinion when used as an ALT it isnt worth the metal/s its made of.

It might be ok for a OBW since the reg will be removed, as they are what give trouble. I wonder about the diodes.

Bust it open for a look see.

I have a Delco 22SI (same size as yours and 100 amp) that I have considered using for a welder also.

Wish ya luck!!!

Never seen a Leece-Neville before.... it does look a lot like, but not quite the same, as a Motorola unit pictured in one of my manuals. Here is what I found out tonight:

it is definately internally regulated.
it has a delta wound stator (good for high amp output).
the three posts shown in the lower center of the white plastic part (see rear pic above) are direct taps to the stator winding poles.

So after some studying of the circuit and internal wiring, I believe I've got it figured out on how to bypass the regulator. The regulator on this alt is also the brush cover... you can remove the regulator and the brushes without disassembling the alternator. The down side to this in that the two contacts that connect the brushes to the regulator circuit are also what holds the brushes against the slip rings in their holes (the two posts in the middle of the regulator are the brush contacts). To bypass the regulator and supply full voltage to the rotor field windings, I'll have to attach a wire to each of those posts... one for 12V and the other for a ground.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=262375&stc=1&d=1157604432

I have no idea if the rectifier diodes can handle the rigors of welding, but if they can't, it will be easy to hook up an external rectifier since the stator poles are already sticking out the back of the alternator. All I'll have to do is hook up a wire to each of the posts and run them over to the external rectifier bridge.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=262376&stc=1&d=1157604432

All this hinges on whether or not I can find replacement brushes.... the braided copper connecting wire is broken off of one of them.

Just get a Ford or Caddy external regulated unit and be done with it.

Just get a Ford or Caddy external regulated unit and be done with it.
What fun would that be? :flipoff2: This kind of shit gives me something to do when I'm bored.

What fun would that be? :flipoff2: This kind of shit gives me something to do when I'm bored.
:cool2: Cool. I thought you were just making it more complicated. But I see now your just exploring:smokin:

It's definately a Leece Neville alternator.... I found some pics on the web and was able to make a visual ID.

I did some looking around on the internet and determined that my alt is a 2800 series 145-amp model. I stopped by the local starter & alternator shop and told them I needed some brushes for a Leece-Neville 2800 series alt. and $4 later, I was out the door. While I was in there, I had the counter dude, look up the replacement recticfier diodes so I could get the specs off of them. These diodes are rated at 50A / 200V, so they should work for welding. If they do blow (or if I just decided to do it), I can always just hook up an external rectifier using 100A/800V diodes for about $20.

Since we are on the topic of Alts. do you think an 85 Amp unit would work for a welder? Another one of those friend freebies.

Pretty much any alternator change be used (or converted for use) as a welder. The output of the alt. will be the determining factor on the thickness of the material it will weld.

If they do blow (or if I just decided to do it), I can always just hook up an external rectifier using 100A/800V diodes for about $20.

Mechanos,

Do you have a part # or more info on this external rectifier using 100A/800V diodes?

Mechanos,

Do you have a part # or more info on this external rectifier using 100A/800V diodes?
Trick question :flipoff2:

You can spend an assload of money real quick when you start getting into these bigger diodes. 100A/800V diodes can start $30 to $40 each go on up from there. You need 6 of them for a 3-phase rectifier so that can add up fast..... so I'm going to cheat.

50A/800V single phase full wave rectifiers can be had for about $7 each. If you take one of these and tie the AC legs together, you essentially end up with a pair of recifier bridges in parrallel. Since each bridge can handle 50A, the parallel pair can handle 100A since they share the current. Use one of these full wave rectifiers on each of the 3-phases of the alternator. You'll have to go inside the alt and solder leads onto the stator winding ends to bring them out of the case.... use #8 wire for the leads. Digikey part # for 50A/800V full wave rectifier is: MP508WMS-ND.

I got all this information by ..... yep, you guessed it, searching here on PBB. These are not my original ideas and I'm not trying to pass them off as such.

Unpotting the potted regulator was fun...... NOT.

Well, I was looking at using a voltage regulator to regulate the open circuit voltage of the welder to about 50 volts or so, but would then open up all the way as soon as an arc is struck. I think I've decided to forego all that and just bypass the regulator and be done with it. I didn't get a pic of it before I reassembled the alt., but basically, I just soldered a jumper to short the (-) brush to ground to cut the regulator out of the loop. Since the regulator isn't doing anything now, I left the voltage sense wires off when I put the alt. back together. I also left the capacitor from (+) output to ground off as well.

Stared at the engine bay for about an hour tonight.... put the alt/welder in there and rolled it around. I don't know if I'm going to be able to make that big sucker fit on the air pump mount. It takes a 1/2" pivot bolt instead of the 3/8" in the air pump mount. If I can get it in there and still get the hood to close, I'll have to fab an adapter mount to bolt to the air pump mount and then mount the welder on that.

If I just can't make it fit on the air pump mount, I'll have to pull the alternator off it's mount under the York and mount it up to the air pump bracket. Then mount the welder under the York where the alternator was. There's a lot more room down there for that big sumbitch.... I think.

If I have to relocate the alt, it's going to kind of suck since I'll have to pull the wires out of the loom and reroute/extend/shorten them to reach the new location.

waking up the dead! Mech, did you ever figure out how to mount the welding alternator? I know you have OBA (york) Not sure how the belts would be run. I pick up a Ford alternator and looking for places to mount it and found this thread..

Thats one ugly looking alternator, glad its not laying around on my garage floor:flipoff2: I think I missed this thread first time around, but that mounted on the right side of the engine pretty dam high. It came off a school bus, 1984 or 1988 I think. Maybe the hot ticket would be to find the school bus mount and see if it would clear the scout hood. Its been a really long time, but I think it mounted pretty much where the air pump lies on the scout, or above it. My plans were to use it on the Caddy, but it wouldn't fit

I have mounted a second alternator where the smog pump would normally go. Use a double groove pulley as the outer groove will line up with the smog pump pulley on the waterpump.
________
Weed Bubblers (http://bubblers.net/)

Thanks Jeff, that looks to be a good spot too. Would the belt only going around the water pump be enough? The pulley on the crank in the same location is open but the belt would hit the water tubes. Could not figure out what uses the inside crank pulley, even with a bit of searching on the binder came up empty. Even Doug Shailor images are red x's. Arrg!!

waking up the dead! Mech, did you ever figure out how to mount the welding alternator? I know you have OBA (york) Not sure how the belts would be run. I pick up a Ford alternator and looking for places to mount it and found this thread..
I was looking into mounting that pig in the smog pump location, but there is just no way that monster is going to fit there. My next thought was I could mount the huge weldernator in the stock alternator spot under the York compressor, and mount the smaller alternator in the smog pump location. That's about as far as I got with it.... the weldernator is still sitting on my workbench where I left it about a year and half ago.
Thats one ugly looking alternator, glad its not laying around on my garage floor:flipoff2:...
You wouldn't even recongnize it..... all cleaned up and even a touch of paint on it.:flipoff2: But now I have this stupid big plywood box taking up space and in my way... :shaking::laughing:

I got a big frame ford mounted at the smog pump brackets no problem.

I got a big frame ford mounted at the smog pump brackets no problem.

Stock smog bracket? Pic?

But now I have this stupid big plywood box taking up space and in my way... :shaking::laughing:[/QUOTE]


That box isn't any better looking than the alternator, a pick, axe or sledge should make short work of it:laughing:

Stock smog bracket? Pic?

There is a picture on my original build up thread somewhere I think.

It's really easy though. Just make a spacer to take up the difference between the alternator and the thickness the smog pump was and to center the pulley up with the smog pump pulley. Then I think I used a stock 7.3 diesel tensioner that came off of the power steering pump. I had to do a little grinding and finessing, but it was an easy job. the hardest part was figuring out what length belt to use. I just measured what I thought it should be, then got every belt within a couple inches of it at the store and took them home to try since that belt is a pita to change.

Worked great and welded pretty nice.

here's one
OBW Link (http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/showthread.php?t=4747)

http://img258.echo.cx/img258/6523/OBW_1066.jpg

Here is my set up. It's a large case 100 amp ford alternator. I have a 2 inch body lift which gives me a little extra hood space.
http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/1053/p1010096dp0.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2356/p1010095kl1.jpg

Randy

Bill did you weld a bracket to the water neck too?

I hate being on call!!:mad3::mad3: prim time to work on the Scout and I get paged.
I did find a smog pump bracket and drilled out the holes to 7/16 to fit a Ford alternator. I made a custom spacer out of 1" tube and 3/8 washers to fill in the difference. Just need to mount it to figure out the adjustment arm now.
Ah chit, you need to pull a water tube to mount that one bolt!! on the smog pump bracket arrg:mad3:

Ah chit, you need to pull a water tube to mount that one bolt!! on the smog pump bracket arrg:mad3:

I definitely didn't on my 304, I remember thinking I'd have to but didn't.

No.
I took 2 old adjustment brackets and welded them together.
It goes to one of the PS pump bolts.

You might find one long enough in the JY.
I just used what I had in my 20yr junk box.

You can see the black bracket in the pic.

Late last night I ended up draining the radiator and pulling the tube. I got the bracket mounted and tube back in. ( A must do on a 345 or dent the tube:shaking:) I bolted the alternator in there just so it looked like I accomplished something.
I looked "closer" at Bill's setup and can see the tensioning arm, thanks. I will fab something up. I snapped several photo's like I aways do. I thought I would share one. Everytime I send one to CRJohnson he allways points out the 20 other things going on in the photos.
P.S. I paint the spacers blue as that color does not exsit in the forest:homer:

Edit: nice find at PickNPull on that Ford Alt.:beer:

Thought I would updated this thread with the bracket I made. It's all installed, but have not done any welding yet.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=366378&stc=1&d=1208793379

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=366379&stc=1&d=1208793379

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=366380&stc=1&d=1208793379