I have a feeling I know the pirate answer already. I've read enough to know that guys generally recommend buying a schoolbus to haul a lawnmower. Than again, maybe there is a good reason for that? Anyway, here are my specs.

2003 Toyota Tacoma V6 5 speed
12' home made trailer (it's a good trailer, it just doesn't have much behind the rig)
brakes on both axles
prodigy brake controller

I went to the scales:

Truck 4680 lbs
Buggy 3160 lbs
Trailer 1720 lbs (includes 60 lbs of chains/binders)
All 9560 lbs

The trailer is heavier than I expected. I knew it was stout but figured that at 12' long it would be lighter. That's a 4,880 load which is under but near the max a taco is rated for (5,000 lbs).

The truck weighed 4680 lbs but I probably load about 200 lbs of stuff when I go camping. With the camping gear and the tongue weight I'm pretty close to the 5,100 Max gross vehicle weight. Well, everything is near the limits but it's within the taco's specs and I have dual brakes.

What do you guys think? Be careful and I'll be ok or I'm about to die?http://www.just4fun.org/images/buggy/Buggy%20detail%209-9-2006/images/dcp_3700.jpg

My only concern is the hitch built onto your bumper. I don't know of any bumpers like that one that are rated for towing.

As for the weight, you're fine.

How much insurance have you purchased?:laughing:

It seems to me that a lot of tongue weight or force from a dip in the road would want to make your hitch fold up under the bumper? How did you brace it?

My only concern is the hitch built onto your bumper. I don't know of any bumpers like that one that are rated for towing.

As for the weight, you're fine.That's a good point. I made it myself and the entire time I was thinking that it had to be stronger and mounted better than the class 3 hitch it replaced. I feel good about it.

How did you brace it?The hitch is part of the bumper. I cut a hole in the bumper and welded it on both sides. Then I took a 1/4" plate and welded it to the receiver and to the bumper structure itself.

Here is a pic from the bottom. The license plate at the bottom of the pic should help you orient yourself. You can kind of see that it's welded on the side under the plate too.
http://www.just4fun.org/images/truck/rear%20bumper/DCP_3582.JPG

Since you are on the other coast I say you are fine. Really you know the answer already. You are at/over the limit of your truck. I'm not a safety nazi and really am ok as long as you have the skill/restraint to handle the combo. But it is marginal at best.:smokin:

You should be fine, just take it slow and increase your stopping distances. A heavier towrig is always better, but a good conciencious (sp?) driver can make up for that defecit to a certain extent. Now your clutch might not be too happy with you, but i guess that all depends on what kind of hills you have in your area.

are you in the tow/tongue ratings? If so, the truck should be ok. That hitch does look like it would put a lot of force on the frame in an accident, though. I would consider bracing it back to the frame at a nice angle. I had a regular receiver hitch on a truck, and hit a minivan while I was doing 40 mph pulling my race car. she pulled out of a parking lot, crossed two lanes, stopped half in the left lane, half in the turn. Long story short, I pushed her hatch completely inside her can, and it creased the boxed frame we did. It wasn't bad, just got reinforced a little and let it go for an old truck, but keep those forces in mind.

Edit: Inside her car, not her can...although I wish I could have shoved that hatch up her can.

Are the tires on the Tacoma rated for the true weight they will be carrying?

How have you determined what your tongue weight is?

To me whenever you are overweight and pushing the envelope, the two things that are a must are good trailer brakes (sounds like you have them) and good tires.

I towed for a couple of years with my 70 chevy 1/2 ton. Manual drum brakes on all 4 corners, coil spring rear, and I survived pulling 5K lbs. You will be fine :)

Are the tires on the Tacoma rated for the true weight they will be carrying? Yes, they are rated at 3,000 lbs each. I should be ok there.

Based on the replies I'm getting the general vibe is that I'm at the limit and need to be careful but I'm not an accident waiting to happen. That's in line with what I was thinking when I started the thread.

I've towed heavier with my Taco, you'll be fine. Just keep the speed down and make sure you've got proper tongue weight. It's not fun though, I bought a real truck for my towing duties after pulling that setup a couple times.

Nice jack stand under the trailer BTW, been doing a little lift the pickup while loading have you?:laughing:

Nice jack stand under the trailer BTW, been doing a little lift the pickup while loading have you?:laughing:It does lift when I drive on to it. I grabbed my smallest jackstand and started keeping it in the trailer's toolbox. I'm not sure it even hits when I drive up but I guess I'd be glad to have it if things went wrong.

It does lift when I drive on to it. I grabbed my smallest jackstand and started keeping it in the trailer's toolbox. I'm not sure it even hits when I drive up but I guess I'd be glad to have it if things went wrong.
BDTD, had my Taco sliding down the road with trailer and half loaded 4runner attached. Had to have someone stand on the brakes to hold it.

The only thing I'd be concerned about is the bumper...

You will be fine as long as the brakes don't fade on the trailer...which they will if they are only 10" drums and not the bigger 12" drums so be careful on long grades. Also be extra careful in the rain. Make sure all the tires are at max pressure they are rated for on the truck and trailer for sure and you have adaquate tongue weight.

Jason :)

<It does lift when I drive on to it. I grabbed my smallest jackstand and started keeping it in the trailer's toolbox. I'm not sure it even hits when I drive up but I guess I'd be glad to have it if things went wrong.>

It least you'll know the ball/coupler is tight when ya load up. :D

yeah should be fine. I tow the 92 toyota in my sig on a 2100lb trailer with my 2005 Tacoma and it does much better than my 95 GMC 1500 did when I used it with the same set up. Course after 05 the tacos got a major redesign. I still lift the taco pretty badly when I load up, but I fixed that by welding trailer jacks on the rear of my trailer. The scales say I'm at 11,800 fully loaded for the trails.

Evan

Just don't drive that around me, and you'll be fine. I wouldn't do it, but then again, Im one of those "diesel" nazi's.. Im one for having more truck than you need for the towing.
Scott

TTT to get a followup on your real world driving impressions. I didn't hear anything on the news about a dead bus full of nuns so it must not have been too bad.

when last i heard from nim it was towing prety well.

TTT to get a followup on your real world driving impressions. I didn't hear anything on the news about a dead bus full of nuns so it must not have been too bad.I've probably pulled it a total of 35-40 hours now. The biggest trip was to tellico and back which is about 8 hours each way for me. I tend to go slower with the trailer/buggy. I just pop in an audio book and enjoy the drive.

After I picked up the trailer/buggy inside the first 5 minutes it was ugly. I hit the brakes going downhill for a red light, the trailer brakes (one axle at the time) locked up and I didn't stop in time. I was lucky in that everybody saw me coming and I went through the light without an accident (or a ticket). That and my friend's towing accident made dual brakes a top priority.

Now that I have brakes on both axles and more experience tuning my brake controller (prodigy) I can stop as well with the trailer as I can without it. I spent about $300 on brakes but I think I could have done it for $200 if I knew exactly what I needed (I do now) and shopped around a bit more. Still, it was money well spent.

After I got home a friend that spent a few years delivering heavy equipment showed me a good way to chain the buggy down. Now I feel like I could drive off a cliff and it wouldn't go anywhere. Literally, I could drive off a cliff and it would stay on the trailer.

As far as swaying goes, it doesn't do it at all. Not even a little, never even a hint of it. (Kudo's to 35xj, he built the trailer and showed me how to load it.) On the way home from tellico there was an amber alert. I saw a truck that met the description so I floored it in my attempt to catch up. I got as high as 90 mph before I caught up and everything seemed stable and controlled. I've also driven all over the tight twisty mountain roads around tellico and I felt really comfortable. The trailer suspension does a nice job too. There isn't really any trailer bouncing transferred back to the truck, even on trail 1.

If there is one area where it lacks, it's power. The 3.4 seems to "make it's stand" around 2700 rpm which is about 72 mph in 5th on my rig. If I'm not going that fast I'm going to down shift on anything but the tamest grades. If I have to give up a few mph because of traffic on 7% grade I can end up in 3rd gear. But I can do 10% grades at 45 mph in 3rd so that's pretty much the worst case scenario.

In short, I feel like it's safe but a long way from "any speed on any grade".

A few have mentioned concern over the bumper.

Regardless of how you feel about the receiver hitch being welded to the bumper...

Exactly how is that bumper installed on the truck?

Just remember, its not what you can tow, its what you can stop

Just remember, its not what you can tow, its what you can stop

Not always true, look at my last post in big dumb loads thread.

I had a bitch of a time getting started withut resorting to 4-lo. But stopping was a non-issue.

Exactly how is that bumper installed on the truck?3 bolts per side attach the bracket to the frame. Again, this is better than the way that the class three hitch was installed. I don't have a good pic of the bracket but here you can see one of the bolts that goes vertically. The other two are horizontal through the frame. The bracket extends past the leaf spring shackle but you can't see it from this pic. All you can see is how I notched it out so it could drop down behind the shackle.

If you guys see a better way let me know. I have another decent trip in 10 days so I'll still be able to make it better this weekend. To be honest though, I feel pretty good about it. The bumper and its mount seem stronger than the frame, which is about as much as I could ask.

http://www.just4fun.org/images/truck/rear%20bumper/DCP_3584.JPG

Not always true, look at my last post in big dumb loads thread.

I had a bitch of a time getting started withut resorting to 4-lo. But stopping was a non-issue.
I agree to a certain extent. With a 2wd you have 2 tires to get you going, and at least 6, maybe 8 to stop you. I rented a bobcat on a heavy equipment trailer that was a s.o.b. to pull home. I told them something wasn't right just moving it in the parking lot from where it was hooked up. (They had to hook it all up, for some legal reason, so I never even looked at it.) They told me it was all fine, blah, blah, while I was paying for it, so I hopped in and went. Stopping was fine, but I was literally peeling out to get going at lights. Well.....after about 5 blocks, I blew both tires on the brake axle and welded the bearings to the hub. Idiots hooked the runaway chain on so tight, it actuated the hydraulic brakes turning in their parking lot. :shaking: I drove another crappy trailer that just plain pulled horrible. I think a well maintained trailer pulls/stops evenly.

I've probably pulled it a total of 35-40 hours now. The biggest trip was to tellico and back which is about 8 hours each way for me. I tend to go slower with the trailer/buggy. I just pop in an audio book and enjoy the drive.

After I picked up the trailer/buggy inside the first 5 minutes it was ugly. I hit the brakes going downhill for a red light, the trailer brakes (one axle at the time) locked up and I didn't stop in time. I was lucky in that everybody saw me coming and I went through the light without an accident (or a ticket). That and my friend's towing accident made dual brakes a top priority.

Now that I have brakes on both axles and more experience tuning my brake controller (prodigy) I can stop as well with the trailer as I can without it. I spent about $300 on brakes but I think I could have done it for $200 if I knew exactly what I needed (I do now) and shopped around a bit more. Still, it was money well spent.

After I got home a friend that spent a few years delivering heavy equipment showed me a good way to chain the buggy down. Now I feel like I could drive off a cliff and it wouldn't go anywhere. Literally, I could drive off a cliff and it would stay on the trailer.

As far as swaying goes, it doesn't do it at all. Not even a little, never even a hint of it. (Kudo's to 35xj, he built the trailer and showed me how to load it.) On the way home from tellico there was an amber alert. I saw a truck that met the description so I floored it in my attempt to catch up. I got as high as 90 mph before I caught up and everything seemed stable and controlled. I've also driven all over the tight twisty mountain roads around tellico and I felt really comfortable. The trailer suspension does a nice job too. There isn't really any trailer bouncing transferred back to the truck, even on trail 1.

If there is one area where it lacks, it's power. The 3.4 seems to "make it's stand" around 2700 rpm which is about 72 mph in 5th on my rig. If I'm not going that fast I'm going to down shift on anything but the tamest grades. If I have to give up a few mph because of traffic on 7% grade I can end up in 3rd gear. But I can do 10% grades at 45 mph in 3rd so that's pretty much the worst case scenario.

In short, I feel like it's safe but a long way from "any speed on any grade".
Thanks, I may be pulling a similar load with a similar truck in the near future and figured it would be ok, but I just wanted to get as much firsthand info as possible. I'm not too concerned with maintaining speed going uphills as much as maintaining control while headed downhill. I figure if my dad survived towing a 4500 lb boat behind his 84 inch wheelbase cj5 back in the early '80s that I should be fine with loads like the one you're hauling, lol.

The two things that bother me are the bummer hitch. And.....

"The 3.4 seems to "make it's stand" around 2700 rpm which is about 72 mph"

I dont see any reason to be towing a trailer at 70+ MPH with a 1/2 ton truck, that you are not sure is up to the job.

When I tow 5000 or more pounds with a mini truck or midsize I gennerally cruise at 60 MPH and will only go to 65 if needed to pass someone. It will tow faster no problem just want to be going slower to keep heat to a minimum so I don't blow a tire while towing. Never blew a truck tire tire towing a heavy load but have blown many a trailer tire but those don't cause a problem if you see the rubber flying around etc. I have had many tires blow on the truck within a week of towing a heavy load on long trips etc. Also I have had 3 Toyota 4 cylinder transmissions get 5th gear bearing noise after towing 400 miles in fifth. Did not really realize what was causing it but after I stopped towing in 5th it was no longer an issue. The 6 cylinder tranny's are more stout but I still refuse to tow in 5th with them.

Jason :)

I've been cruising around 65mph but I usually pick up speed heading into hills.

Your fine then... My trailer is bigger and heavier than yours but I have my truck a bit heavier than your so it all balances out and tows fine but I'm a bit over the limit for rated truck and trailer capacity so I feel safer and a bit slower speed. Have towed 10's of thousands of mile like this but usually I tow with a fullsize truck unless its down for maintenence or mods etc.

Jason :

So Vanguard,
It's been almost a year, how's it holding up? I may be in a similar situation whereas I may have to start towing with my stock '97 4Runner (3.4 liter, 5 speed) until I can pick up a "real" tow rig next year.

Edit: I'll be towing an '85 Toyota Pickup on 35's - around 3,450 lbs. Looking for a lightweight trailer right now.

A few have mentioned concern over the bumper.

Regardless of how you feel about the receiver hitch being welded to the bumper...

Exactly how is that bumper installed on the truck?

*sorry, didnt see the date!!!* Point still stands. :flipoff2:
Im more concerned with the trailer staying atatched to the truck in a bad situation. The hitch appears to be surface mounted. Id prefer the hitch to go through the tube and be welded on both sides. Also the bumper mounting to the frame needs to be very strong and spread out so the frame stress is spread out.


Besides that as long as you can stop it Id say run it.

Mike

not a good idea...

rpm4x4: The hitch is not surface mounted, it goes through and is welded on both sides. In addition to that the plate for the safety chain is welded to the bumper and the hitch which serves as sort of a gusset.

The truck does a good job. In the last year I've pulled with this setup from the Raleigh area to Harlan, KY, Tellico (several times), Crozet VA, Gray Rock AL, Wind rock TN, Mountain City, TN, and a bunch of local places too.

Going uphill I've become comfortable with higher RPMs. Unless there is a very long and gentle downhill I don't use 5th gear much at all. In 4th gear I can normally use cruise control, which is nice. I go 55 mph up black mountain in 3rd gear and I'm really happy with that. The setup never sways, not even a hint of it. The braking started to fade a few months ago but adjusting the trailer's brakes took care of that.

On the way home from tellico a few months ago I was with a 7.3 Powerstroke and a 6.5 Chevy. We were all towing our trail rigs although I'll admit my buggy and trailer was a little lighter than their trucks and trailer. Up the hills the 7.3 would walk away from me unless I caught him in the wrong gear. We both easily beat the 6.5. If the 6.5 caught me in the wrong gear I could downshift and accelerate fast enough not to be caught. (Before I get lectured for "racing" keep in mind that we're talking about 60mph and it's not hard to stop going up a steep hill.)

I've been really impressed with this toyota 3.4 V6. The toyota people I talk to say it's already considered one of toyota's legendary motors like that 22r(e). Having said that, I ride mine so hard that I must be shortening its life. It's not getting hot, drinking oil, or showing any problems at all but I just don't see anything working that hard for 250,000 miles. We'll see. If mine only goes 150k then I'll have an excuse to buy a CTD.

If anybody is going to tow near the rated limits of their rig they should keep in mind that tongue weight prevents swaying and that brakes are critical to safe hauling. I have them on both axles and a prodigy controller. Beyond that just be safe. I'm under the rating on my truck (rated for 5k) and it does well.

I know this is an old post, and things seem to be doing fine.......

But if you have to ask if it's safe, it probably isn't.