OK, here's what i have to work with: 94 Vortech 4.3, 700-R4, NP231, (driver-side drop) D300, TF-727-d300 output shaft.

Here's the plan: Leave the 4.3/700-R4/241 setup together, take slipyoke off of 241. cut yoke part off. cut splined section of TF-727 output shaft off. On a lathe, turn bushing that slips over the ourput shaft, and inside the slipyoke shaft. Weld the bushing to both the slipyoke section and the output shaft section. Now you have an adapter shaft from the 241 to the 300. Fab from tubing and flat stock support structure to hold the 241 and the 300 together, with integrated mounts. Fab a custom crossmember set up for the same mounts.
Now, you have passenger’s side output, low ranges of 2.62:1, 2.72:1, 7.1264. With the 700-R4 and the 5.38 gears in the truck that this is going into, that gives you a total crawl ratio of 234.64:1, figuring in the 2x reduction of the torque converter. That’s pretty nasty gearing, for very little money. I do have the wheelbase for this, no problem. A carrier-bearing style front driveshaft could be connected to the 241 front output, and used to run a PTO winch. Just select low on the 241, and neutral on the 300. I know that this shaft would always be engaged any time that the 241 was in low, but this is no big deal, just put the winch in neutral. A separate engagement could be added if you wanted. :smokin:

*Problems
1) The 241 could NOT be put in 4-high (no winching in high range)
2) Strength of custom shaft might be questionable, heat treating might be necessary :nuke:
3) I need to find a CV-style output yoke for the D300

Oh, yeah, if for some crazy reason, you wanted to run 4:1 in a 231 and the D300, that would give you a 516.48:1 crawl ratio with the same gears, or 393.6:1 with 4.10’s
Fawkin insane, huh? :eek: Comments/questions appreciated. Thanks. :flipoff2:

thats the only concern i'd have is the coupling shaft. i was going to build my own adapter. fawk it, give it a try.:beer:

yeah, whatever. you really dont need or want gearing that low with an auto. i can tell you right now that at 230:1 with an auto you will NOT i repeat NOT be able to stop in low low. it sounds like you are one of the people that reads too much about how important a crawl ratio is, but has no actual real world experience :rolleyes:

70:1 with an auto is MORE than enough, and its tough to stop then. and thats with 4 wheel discs and a low power engine!

had a cherokee once, bone stock with 33's on it, in low range the damm thing took a massive amount of pedal effort to stop, pop it out of gear and the tires would lock. besides the converter will easily cover it if your gear ratio is less than perfect.

OK, i understand the point that is being made regarding stopping problems, but the solution to that is rather simple: set idle just barely below engagement RPM of torque converter, and use a hand throttle. To stop, just drop off the hand throttle, and brake. This might require a custom converter, but that is still no big deal. The 4.3 idles extremely low (around 800 RPM), so a converter in 1500 stall speed area would be perfect. I do understand that 1500 stall DOES NOT mean 1500 engagement, so don't jump on me on that one. I also realize that this solution would reguire carefull use of the skinny pedal in low, as if you wound it up before engagement, and it grabbed at 1500, there would be pieces of 241 everywhere.:nuke:
Good call on that one, 9-volt and mytzlflick, but i think i can work around it. Is 234:1 with an auto lower than i need, sure it is, I am overreacting to my past experiences with autos and too tall gears. Another thing on this one, just because you have it doesn't mean you need to use it. I can also have 89.6 or 86.0 crawl ratos, using just one low range. :D
The PTO output for the front winch is one of my favorite parts of the whole thing, cause PTO winches are cheap, and electric or hydro cost big bucks.
*9-volt, good call on the tech side, but underestimating my real-world experience is a good way to look foolish out on the trails. Not saying that i can out-wheel or out-fab you. Just saying that i am NOT a fawkin :rainbow: web wheeler.
Thanks for the comments, keep'em coming.

Good luck getting your junk flipped back over with a PTO winch when it's on it's side or upside down. I've recovered myself from my side well past 90 degrees on the roller fairlead with my Warn and then had to pull my plugs to keep from hydrolocking my engine. Just something to consider if you intend to real world wheel it and actually use the winch. In other words, the PTO option for a winch is cool, but not overall practical in real world conditions.

ok in my experience I always thought an electric winch was for occasional part time use. a pto was for serious wheeling, lemme think never overheats, 300hp winch motor, works all day long and dosn't need lots of batteries, oh yeah 8000lb winch set me back $300. only upside to an electric is it works when the engine dosn't run. thats why i wheel with buddies.

-pmurf1:
Yeah, i though of that. I have a huge electric ramsey winch off of a ramp truck that i might throw in the bed too, for the situations you just described. That fawker is way too heavy to mount in front, though. The PTO winch will be used mainly for recovery of other people's junks. besides, i have much more trust in the PTO, as my experience wiht elecrtic winches has involved overheating, toasting solenoids. I also am way to broke to afford a battery system that would support winching with the motor off for any amount of time anyways.

he's talking 230:1 with the converters 2:1. its only 115:1 or so. all depends on the vehicle. to each their own. 70:1 is fine, but why not have the option? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by FCwheeler
I also am way to broke to afford a battery system that would support winching with the motor off for any amount of time anyways.

sounds to me like you need a manual and a REALLY BIG BATTERY and a REALLY BIG STARTER :D

i just drug home an sm 465 and 205 to do the same project. i'm planning on making an adapter to put the 465/205 behind my th 400. i'm running 53's in the mud so i need lots of wheels spin. i'm looking for someone to make a coupler that has two female splines on it.

i run th400 (2.48to1), atlasII (3.8to1), and 4.56's in the pigs and i run 38.5 sx's. my crawl ratio is 42to1 and it is great. the auto enables you to crawl with a higher range than with a manual. i like it because i can crawl in first and if the time comes to light it up i can get some good whell speed all with the same gear.

On the stoppin thing, It might be a good idea to put some sort of a brake on the 231 output, that would help stop the beast in low/low.
hth

Originally posted by FCwheeler

1) The 241 could NOT be put in 4-high (no winching in high range)


Why not?

2) Strength of custom shaft might be questionable, heat treating might be necessary :nuke:


Agreed

3) I need to find a CV-style output yoke for the D300


You sure you're gonna need a CV with such a long driveshaft?

Pete

I say do it then report bad

Originally posted by kaiserm715
i just drug home an sm 465 and 205 to do the same project. i'm planning on making an adapter to put the 465/205 behind my th 400. i'm running 53's in the mud so i need lots of wheels spin. i'm looking for someone to make a coupler that has two female splines on it.
I've been kicking around this idea for months. Too much else going on right now to tackle it though. If you get this together, let me know. I want pics and lots of details!! :D

i've talked to a machine shop today that could make the coupling shaft that i need to make the project possible. they said that it would cost me approx. $240 to set the machine and make. that is for two internal splines (that are different) and a piece that is approx 6-8" long. i also plan on drilling the female 10 spline for sm 465 pilot hole (it won't need a bearing, it won't move but it will help keep everything aligned better i believe).
they said that the cost is all set-up time and that making extras wouldn't be much more. basicly he said that two would cost me the same price as one.
the cost would go down a little if i make it with a male spline going into the th 400 and still ahve the 10 spline female for the sm 465. everything else i can make myself, the two metal plates and piece of pipe conecting it not to mention supports to beef it up a little. i think that key to the design will be to make sure that each piece is supported on a mount and cross member...so that there is no tension on the adapters and shaft.
i'll get done, somehow...i'm determined

by the way i was given the idea by onetonwillys, he has friends that have done the same thing with two 4 speeds, i just prefer to have an auto in the mud, but like the gearing that i could select from with a 4 speed and 205 backing the automatic, i wouldn't even have to twin stick the 205 and still have a real low 2 wheel low.

Hey if 800 is extremely low, what is it when my Scout buddies are ideling around at 200-400 rpm with their tractor motors :D

REGARDING:
The 4.3 idles extremely low (around 800 RPM),

It just made me laugh, but then i know not alot of people respect Scouts or even know much about them for that matter.

The stopping problem is easily solved with a slightly loose torgue converter - say 1,800 to 2,000 rpm range. Helps go with extremely low gears too.

Originally posted by The Fleckster
Hey if 800 is extremely low, what is it when my Scout buddies are ideling around at 200-400 rpm with their tractor motors :D



Yeah, no shit Fleck. The 152 in the now sold Lilgreenscout would idle just fine below 250, thats all the lower my testing tach. goes. you could set the timing by eye if you blinked just right ;)