I have a high mileage HP22 from a 1990 Range Rover and several core transmissions from Disco II's (yup all front driveshaft failure trucks...). I also have the A clutch assembly from a 4.6 (HP24).

What I want to do, is rebuild my HP22 using as many of the stronger, later model parts as possible. I have been researching for the last few hours and I know that it is possible, but there is no definitive information on what, exactly, needs to be done in order to achieve this goal.

I have also been trying to dig up information on HP22s and 24s as used in other applications to try to mix-and-match the best components out of all of them.

If anyone has any further information about anything above please post up, I hope that when this is done all the information will finally be in one place.

thanks!

Wouldn't John be able to answer these questions? Seems to me he'd be as knowledgable as any of us, if not moreso.

John is indeed an incredibly knowledgable guy and I am lucky to be working with him, however he does not have the specific application knowledge of the auto transmissions such as somebody the likes of Dave Ashcroft. It is also incredibly difficult to get John's attention away from either business or answering all of you guys' questions on the internet in order to ask him a question myself!

OK, fair enough. If he's as scatter-brained (er, easily distracted) as Augusten says he is, you have your hands full!

AFAIK, the HP24 was the P38 tranny and has significant electronic controls, but the clutches can be fitted to an HP22. Again, AFAIK, the clutches are supposedly stronger to deal with the greater horsepower. Supposedly, there were better clutches installed in Jaguar and BMW vehicles. I believe the heavier clutches were found in mid '90s 740i BMWs.

PT is spot on with the electronics, All HP24's are electronic and where fit in Jaguars' BMW's and 95 and up RR's, Only some of the stuff fits.. According to ZF's website the 24 is rated to 450Nm of Torque the 22 is rated to 350..
http://www.zf-group.com/pdf/AppChartpasscartrans.pdf Or go to ZF.com when the site works it is a good resource.
There are some guys that fit a manual valve body to the 24... In the end I'd like a 5HP24 but the tailshaft housings do not interchange..

This project is a big pain in the ass. I have worked through a couple of these and gathering cores is the problem.

Just do it with pictures and people will chime in to steer you on it.

JP

I have a disassembled HP22 in a five-gallon pail if someone were to need it...

Hmmm....I might be interested. Is it a regulation pail?

Hmmm....I might be interested. Is it a regulation pail?

I'd want the pail back:flipoff2:

LOL, well, thanks anyways.

The 22 is actually a pretty stout trans with the main failure due to ring wear in the stator(wasted A clutch, no forward). If your powerplant isn't anything crazy you'll be fine and you can just give the A clutch a little more holding power by setting clearance to around .060, drilling a 1/16 relief hole through the piston, removing the orifice in the valve body, and using a teflon sealing ring in the rear groove on the input shaft. Also, be very critical when inspecting the inside of the stator where the rings ride... If you have to question ANYTHING just scrap it and get a fresh one from a ZF distributor.

BTW, you will feel fwd engage once the updates have been made, even with the waved plates on both sides. It's not harsh by any means, but is noticeable. Similar to the reverse engagement...

Sounds like you have the info i'm looking for!! A lot of what you are saying doesn't yet make complete sense because i have yet to take the tranny apart. Can you elaborate further?

Thanks!

I have a high mileage HP22 from a 1990 Range Rover and several core transmissions from Disco II's (yup all front driveshaft failure trucks...). I also have the A clutch assembly from a 4.6 (HP24).

What I want to do, is rebuild my HP22 using as many of the stronger, later model parts as possible. I have been researching for the last few hours and I know that it is possible, but there is no definitive information on what, exactly, needs to be done in order to achieve this goal.

I have also been trying to dig up information on HP22s and 24s as used in other applications to try to mix-and-match the best components out of all of them.

If anyone has any further information about anything above please post up, I hope that when this is done all the information will finally be in one place.

thanks!

Hi,

anyone familier with the ZF can do this HD build up as long as you start with the correct donor boxes,

you need to look at the box code, the second number down on the side plate. The 3.9 classic will be 1043 010 699, for the 4HP24 donor box you have a few options but first you need to decide if you want to use the stock 3.9 torque converter or the larger early 4.6 P38 converter.

if you have a tuned 4.6 or 5.0 V8 the bigger torque converter (TC) is advisable but you will also need to change the starter ring and the flexplate assy on the end of the crank to fit it,

if you want this bigger TC the donor 4HP24 you need to look for is the 1043 030 061 or the 1043 030 064 from the early 4.6 P38.

if you want to stick with the 3.9 TC the boxes you need are the 1043 030 065 from the later 4.6 P38 or the 1043 030 005 from the 4.6 Disco II, either will do.

once you have these 2 boxes, give them to someone familier with building ZF's and just build the 699 with the 24 internals and front end but using the 699 casing and valve body (all the 4HP24's are electronic so the casings and valve body are no good)

Please note the box will end up 15mm longer due th the thicker pump assy and the oil cooler nipples will now be M18 x 1.5 mm as opposed to M16 x 1.5mm.

hope this helps.

That's some really good info.

Hi,

anyone familier with the ZF can do this HD build up as long as you start with the correct donor boxes,

you need to look at the box code, the second number down on the side plate. The 3.9 classic will be 1043 010 699, for the 4HP24 donor box you have a few options but first you need to decide if you want to use the stock 3.9 torque converter or the larger early 4.6 P38 converter.

if you have a tuned 4.6 or 5.0 V8 the bigger torque converter (TC) is advisable but you will also need to change the starter ring and the flexplate assy on the end of the crank to fit it,

if you want this bigger TC the donor 4HP24 you need to look for is the 1043 030 061 or the 1043 030 064 from the early 4.6 P38.

if you want to stick with the 3.9 TC the boxes you need are the 1043 030 065 from the later 4.6 P38 or the 1043 030 005 from the 4.6 Disco II, either will do.

once you have these 2 boxes, give them to someone familier with building ZF's and just build the 699 with the 24 internals and front end but using the 699 casing and valve body (all the 4HP24's are electronic so the casings and valve body are no good)

Please note the box will end up 15mm longer due th the thicker pump assy and the oil cooler nipples will now be M18 x 1.5 mm as opposed to M16 x 1.5mm.

hope this helps.

Ok I know this thread hasn't been posted on in years but as it has the best chunk of info on the subject I thought I'd see if anyone was still around knowledgable on the subject

I have gone done this jigsaw puzzle of an experiment as I have a TD 716 Pinzgauer with a ZF 4HP22

The gear ratios for an original Pinz is :

1st 2.73, 2nd 1.56, 3rd 1.00, 4th 0.73 and R 2.

Land Rover ZF 4HP22 and ZF 4HP24

1st 2.48, 2nd 1.48, 3rd 1.00, 4th 0.73 and R 2.09

One of the biggest failings in the Pinz auto is the torque convertor which has the following stats (The drive torque of the torque convertor is 245 Nm/2000rpm-1)


Now I picked up a ZF 4HP24 Donor 1043 030 061 4.6 Range Rover box.......

Questions:

1. What are the stats on the larger torque convertor in relation to the Pinz above?
2. As the torque convertor is bigger, what is different on the box ie the bellhousing biggere to fit or input shaft?
3. The flwheel is different but I presume interchangeable with a disco, ie the 4.6 flywheel will bolt onto a 200 tdi? Seems to be the flywheels are same for a lot of these vehicles

Figuring on starting the jigsaw in a few weeks when the box arrives


regards

Mike

the 061 converter won't fit in the pinz bellhousing,

you can fit 4hp24 internals (but not the 061, the 065) but you will have to use the pinz converter,

don't bother buying the 061, you can't use it,(unless you fit a 4.6)

the 061 converter won't fit in the pinz bellhousing,

you can fit 4hp24 internals (but not the 061, the 065) but you will have to use the pinz converter,

don't bother buying the 061, you can't use it,(unless you fit a 4.6)

G'Day Dave

What is the difference between a 061 and a 065?

It appears on paper in the ZF manuals the majority of the bits are swappable. I was mainly concerned about:

- the input shaft (need to put them side by side). Pinz is 1043 202 048 (0.556kg) and Range Rover 1043 202 088 (0.706kg)
- after reading the info above was worried if the connection for the torque convertor is different
- the final cylinder (screwed to the end is different) but the clutch disks are the same size (part number)

I already have a 061 box so if I have to get bits from a 065 box I'll have to do that also (and track down a parts manual as I only have for Pinz and a 061). The Pinz box is a bit weird hence I am doing it myself, plus living in Malaysia I dont trust the auto trans shops here as anything out of the ordinary and they bodge it.

Pity cannot use the bigger torque convertor as the Pinz one is specific for Pinz, whether it is any good is another question.

Anyway thanks for your response. Thought about going for a later box and using your electronic switch idea, but was unsure if the later boxes would fit on the pinz bellhousing and convertor

just saw you got the filter kits, what price you think postage to Malaysia?


Regards

Mike

G'Day Dave

What is the difference between a 061 and a 065?

It appears on paper in the ZF manuals the majority of the bits are swappable. I was mainly concerned about:

- the input shaft (need to put them side by side). Pinz is 1043 202 048 (0.556kg) and Range Rover 1043 202 088 (0.706kg)
- after reading the info above was worried if the connection for the torque convertor is different
- the final cylinder (screwed to the end is different) but the clutch disks are the same size (part number)

I already have a 061 box so if I have to get bits from a 065 box I'll have to do that also (and track down a parts manual as I only have for Pinz and a 061). The Pinz box is a bit weird hence I am doing it myself, plus living in Malaysia I dont trust the auto trans shops here as anything out of the ordinary and they bodge it.

Pity cannot use the bigger torque convertor as the Pinz one is specific for Pinz, whether it is any good is another question.

Anyway thanks for your response. Thought about going for a later box and using your electronic switch idea, but was unsure if the later boxes would fit on the pinz bellhousing and convertor

just saw you got the filter kits, what price you think postage to Malaysia?


Regards

Mike

there are 3 different diameters of conveters used on the 4HP22 and 4HP24, the 22 uses the small and medium and the 24 uses the medium and the large,

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/ashtrans/3tc-1.jpg

the pinz uses the small, the 061 the big, the 065 is a 24 and uses the medium,

as the 22 and the 065 both use the medium, you can rebuild the pinz 22 with the stronger 065 guts and front end and will still take the pinz converter which you have to use due to the bellhousing constraints.

the 061 only has the big converter and the input shafts and other front end parts are different, this is why the 061 is no good for this job.

we have rebuilt many stock pinz 22's for the UK military and done one electronic 22 for an enthusiast who ran it with a compushift,

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/ashtrans/compkit.jpg

G'Day Dave

Ok, major issues on my rebuild. How many bits from a 65 do I need?

- input shaft (yes)
- pump (I hope not)

I presume or hoping the only difference is the first stack?

You wouldn't have the missing bits left over, I could buy?

I wish I was doing this in the UK as can get the bits easy enough and also got people who can do the work. To fink a ZF 24 carcass here is impossible

I heard the Pinz boxes were upgraded in the UK, but didn't know who had done it until now.

Regards

Mike

My ever helpful ZF guy was back in the office today and the bits different are:

1043 222 089 INTERM.PLATE (a bit weird as the breakdown numbers say it’s the same)

1043 210 001 PUMP

0734 313 061 H O-RING

1043 202 203 INPUT SHAFT

So off the find a wrecked box...... hard part is most people dont open them. Ask ZF guys here also


regards

Mike

ok I have a daft question :)

with the lines coming out of the box that go to the radiator, which one is in and which is out?

I am going to install an inline cooler so I am guessing it should be after the radiator on the inlet line

Any other boxes other than 1043 030 065 and 1043 030 005?

So far seem to be rarer than hens teeth

I know that Dave can convert the weaker components of the 4HP22 with the beefier 4HP24 components...

But, can you just swap the valve body from a 4HP22 to an early 4HP24EH?

What's needs to be done to complete this? If it can be done.

Thanks!!!
P

I had heard that was feasible above somewhere but never seen details

My little experiment is on hold until I get the remaining few parts which will be next time I go to the UK. Has been a PITA to find a box to break for parts