To keep it short....

I have some experience with MR2's and Corolla GTS's. The Sami currently has the stock 1.3 and I want to go to Toy axles and do a motor swap.

Is there any benefit to running a Toyota 4AGE over a Suzuki 1.6 in terms of ease of swap and future driveline issues (i.e. anyone know if you can bolt a minitruck tranny and tcase to the 4age?).

Basically - i am doing a slow build which eventually was going to be 1.6V -> kicker -> marlin case -> toy axles. I am wondering if 4AGE -> marlin case -> toy axles would be easier/cheaper/better.

Any ideas?

Me.

i dont know about easier but i think the 4aG only puts out 74 hp stock.... had a stock one in my buddies ae86 not bad lil motor the max hp an 4ag ever put out was 320hp fully built w/turbo..... so i say just go with the zuki 1.6 not the toy 1.6 its easier.......
P.S. its 3:02am so if this sounds like rambling ingnore it......

I've built several mini late models using a 4age and have been around them for 6 years now. They are 115 HP stock (this is the 4age not the 4ag) and will rev to 8200 rpm all day long without any issues. They respond really well to new cams and the fuel injection is easy to wire. There are a few different versions with different block castings and such one has bigger mains also. There's what they call the red top which I believe is 135 HP and there's a supercharged or turbo that is like 185 hp. theres also a 20 valve that's 185 hp normaly aspirated. We have ran the guts out of our current engine for 4 years now with no issues what so ever, so it's been a little while since I have done any research on them. A few of my numbers may be off a little. As for a transmission I know that one from behind a 22r will not bolt up we kept breaking 2nd gear in ours and wanted to upgrade but ended up having some straight cut gears made for our stock trans.

this site has tons of info you can use

http://www.billzilla.org/4agstock.htm

Oh yea, the 4age is also a HEMI so you could get a "yea It's got a HEMI" Bumper Sticker.:D

Thanks for the billzilla link... didn't have that one... like I said, I raced these motors so I'm really familiar with how to get power out of them. Unfortunately, it sounds like you can't mate the toyota truck tranny to one of these without some serious work, so probably not worth it over the suzuki motor.

Too bad I don't have many resources, because the 4age and 4agze just spank the suzuki motor.

Me.

You could always run a divorced tcase behind the car trans. The Suzuki case may last depending on tire size and driving style or you could use a 205 but that may be way overkill. For it's size and weight I've probably been more impressed with the 4age than any other small motor

acutally the 4age varitants never made more than 160hp i belive, 20v and super charged ones included.
The problem with running the stock trans is the length, unless you strech the wheel base your drive shaft is gonna be like 15inches lol.

I think the Miata motor is an excellent swap as well, but the damn stock trans is so freakin long.

Oh if you think the 4age is impressive for a small motor you need to get out more :D The 4age varients are so under pwoered for the technology that was tossed at them (20Vs vvti and only 160hp). Honda did that with 16v 1.6L B series motors in 1988-89. And they acutally dyno 5-10 whp more than 20Vs. Anyway thats enough :)

Yeah but B16s have only like 40 ft lbs, lol

Here is a good read on FWD motors. I believe there is also a link to a Miata motor swap, and a Saturn motor swap into a yota.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140983&highlight=miata

acutally the 4age varitants never made more than 160hp i belive, 20v and super charged ones included.
The problem with running the stock trans is the length, unless you strech the wheel base your drive shaft is gonna be like 15inches lol.

I think the Miata motor is an excellent swap as well, but the damn stock trans is so freakin long.

Oh if you think the 4age is impressive for a small motor you need to get out more :D The 4age varients are so under pwoered for the technology that was tossed at them (20Vs vvti and only 160hp). Honda did that with 16v 1.6L B series motors in 1988-89. And they acutally dyno 5-10 whp more than 20Vs. Anyway thats enough :)

160- 165 may be right on the horsepower that was from memory on research several years ago

Length wise your right the Toy trans is pretty long and a Zuk is pretty short.

The honda stuff is impressive also, but was any of it avalible in a rear wheel drive configuration? Our track rules state the drivetrain must remain in stock configuration and front wheel drive is not allowed. Our last car weighed in a little less than 1200 pounds, with a highly modified 4age it's very impressive. But what do I know my trail rig has a Big block:)

The honda motors are junk for swaps like this - most of them turn the wrong way and they are all intereference motors - not to mention the whole lack of torque.

The miata motors and the 4age were both available in RWD configuration so swapping is easier - but I'm looking for stupid easy - don't want to have to tinker to get different trans to fit, which means trying for toyota (remember I'm gonna use a toy tcase).

Power wise, nothing of the same displacement has beat a NA 4age yet - remember these are formula atlantic motors. That all means nothing though, because I don't think we're wanting to run 9k+ RPMs in the rocks with a race tuned honda or toyota motor. For it's time, the TVIS system was a nice way of getting a little more low end out of these little motors. FYI - the only motors north America got had either 116HP (NA) or 145 (SC) all the other motors are JDM.

Thanks for the divorced tcase idea - for some reason I hand't even thought of that. you don't happen to have a total tranny length for an AE86 tranny (assuming that will be easier to use than an MR2 one).

Me.

The honda motors are junk for swaps like this - most of them turn the wrong way and they are all intereference motors - not to mention the whole lack of torque.

The miata motors and the 4age were both available in RWD configuration so swapping is easier - but I'm looking for stupid easy - don't want to have to tinker to get different trans to fit, which means trying for toyota (remember I'm gonna use a toy tcase).

Power wise, nothing of the same displacement has beat a NA 4age yet - remember these are formula atlantic motors. That all means nothing though, because I don't think we're wanting to run 9k+ RPMs in the rocks with a race tuned honda or toyota motor. For it's time, the TVIS system was a nice way of getting a little more low end out of these little motors. FYI - the only motors north America got had either 116HP (NA) or 145 (SC) all the other motors are JDM.

Thanks for the divorced tcase idea - for some reason I hand't even thought of that. you don't happen to have a total tranny length for an AE86 tranny (assuming that will be easier to use than an MR2 one).

Me.

I can get a tranny length tonight or over the weekend. I can get the corolla length and the mr2 length both, but I don't think the mr2 would do you much good they are rear engine rear wheel drive.

I was toying with the idea of a tube buggy with a mid mounted 4age, mr2 trans to land cruiser rearends using the mr2 transaxle as the tcase, but the gearing was going to be super low and top speed at 8200 was only gonna be around 40 mph. not enough wheel speed for the type of wheeling I have around here. Still might build it when I get my fj40 buggy finished, just because I have that drivetrain already

160- 165 may be right on the horsepower that was from memory on research several years ago

Length wise your right the Toy trans is pretty long and a Zuk is pretty short.

The honda stuff is impressive also, but was any of it avalible in a rear wheel drive configuration? Our track rules state the drivetrain must remain in stock configuration and front wheel drive is not allowed. Our last car weighed in a little less than 1200 pounds, with a highly modified 4age it's very impressive. But what do I know my trail rig has a Big block:)


oh i agree, for a chepa RWD swap the older honda motors are no good. they can be turend around to run in a RWD configurationbut the trans ain;t cheap lol
I did plunk a s2000 motor and tranny under my samurai body and it fit very very very nice, 240hp :D

The honda motors are junk for swaps like this - most of them turn the wrong way and they are all intereference motors - not to mention the whole lack of torque.

The miata motors and the 4age were both available in RWD configuration so swapping is easier - but I'm looking for stupid easy - don't want to have to tinker to get different trans to fit, which means trying for toyota (remember I'm gonna use a toy tcase).

Power wise, nothing of the same displacement has beat a NA 4age yet - remember these are formula atlantic motors. That all means nothing though, because I don't think we're wanting to run 9k+ RPMs in the rocks with a race tuned honda or toyota motor. For it's time, the TVIS system was a nice way of getting a little more low end out of these little motors. FYI - the only motors north America got had either 116HP (NA) or 145 (SC) all the other motors are JDM.

Thanks for the divorced tcase idea - for some reason I hand't even thought of that. you don't happen to have a total tranny length for an AE86 tranny (assuming that will be easier to use than an MR2 one).

Me.

i agree, i was just saying that the 4age is not a very impressive motor comrpared to what else is avaible now and even then (in terms of small dispalcemnt high out put 4s). but i doubt anyone else cares and it ain't the topic at hand so i'll shut up :grinpimp: