OK we have all heard and read about flipping the hubs on a rockwell to make the axels 69" wide. Now who has actually done it? And none of this: my aunts Uncles cousins bother new a guy who's brother did it, BS.

Yes I searched and didn't come up with shit.

I would like to know how easy/hard it was. What it all involved and whether or not you were happy with the results.

Thank you

Its extremly easy. Email me

it takes about 5 minutes for gomer pyle to do it!:eek: :rasta: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by jeeper111
it takes about 5 minutes for gomer pyle to do it!:eek: :rasta: :flipoff2:

THAT IS WHAT I WANT TO HEAR

It is easy. All you do is replace the studs in the knuckles with bolts. I took all my lug nut studs to the machine shop and had them take off about 1/4" or so on the back side. There is a step/chamfer in the studs that you can see, this is where I had them machine the backside to. Replace the studs and reasemble.

CJ

Have a look at

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35000&highlight=rockwell

This almost does it its daniels brake removal tech thread.

And

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34524&highlight=rockwell+AND+hub+AND+flip

There is a good pic in this one showing the clearance issues with the backs of the studs and the spindle bolts.

Sam

you guys are awsome, thanks

When I did it I just pulled the hub, replaced the studs with bolts (grade 8) and ground down the lug backside. Heres a trick I found. Pull off the break drum, set it on the ground and drop the lugs in the holes so the backside is facing up. The break drum will hold the lugs in place nicely while you take a grinder to them. It took me about an hour to do 12. Like was said above I ground them down to where the bevel is and whacked em in place with my BFH.

JYS

That was my axle, this was the first time to work on a Rockwell
Thanks for scaring me straight!!!!
I replaced all 12 of the 3/8X1" Bolts ant ground more off the studs (Whitch i replaced w/ all right handed studs!!!)


Thanks alot!!!! Bout' 3 days from being on the tires!!!


:rasta:

Heres a suggestion :

Dont flip the hub!!! I would guess you are going to get custom rims made up so just leave the hub unflipped and run a big backspaced rim (like 8 to 9 inches back space).

The reason to not flip the hub is because sombody soon is going to do the wheel disk brake modification (I am going to soon, Ive got all the parts and all I need to do is fix my POS lathe and Im there). Now to run wheel brakes the hubs will have to be flipped out so that when sombody works out the modification then if your current setup has the hubs flipped out then you can easily do the brake mod without messing with your wheels.


I carnt see any advantage over running the hubs flipped in or out if you have to get custom rims made anyway. You will still end up with the same overall width and with large backspaced rims and the hubs flipped out then you will be ably to run wheel brakes in the future.

If you flip the hubs then you will never be able to run wheel brakes.

Just a suggestion.

:beer:

Sam

Originally posted by Strange Rover
Heres a suggestion :

Dont flip the hub!!! I would guess you are going to get custom rims made up so just leave the hub unflipped and run a big backspaced rim (like 8 to 9 inches back space).

The reason to not flip the hub is because sombody soon is going to do the wheel disk brake modification (I am going to soon, Ive got all the parts and all I need to do is fix my POS lathe and Im there). Now to run wheel brakes the hubs will have to be flipped out so that when sombody works out the modification then if your current setup has the hubs flipped out then you can easily do the brake mod without messing with your wheels.


I carnt see any advantage over running the hubs flipped in or out if you have to get custom rims made anyway. You will still end up with the same overall width and with large backspaced rims and the hubs flipped out then you will be ably to run wheel brakes in the future.

If you flip the hubs then you will never be able to run wheel brakes.

Just a suggestion.

:beer:

Sam


Why run wheel brakes when it is 10X easier, cheaper and effective a pinion brake?

just wondering what your reasoning is

btw do i need to get custom rims made? and how much for the cheapest beadlock/nonbeadlock rims

Thank you

7:1 reduction braking kinda sends you through the windshield:) :)

Originally posted by TRD



Why run wheel brakes when it is 10X easier, cheaper and effective a pinion brake?

just wondering what your reasoning is

btw do i need to get custom rims made? and how much for the cheapest beadlock/nonbeadlock rims

Thank you

Yep the pinion brake is definately easier. Wheel brakes would have to be safer and I would guess perform better in every respect. I mean just about every rig ever built has wheel brakes.

I guess that safety is the biggest concern. And anything that involves safety brings in insurance and anything with insurance (like wheeling competitions, wheeling in 4wd parks and probably wheeling anywhere maybe in the future) will mean that the rigs will have to comply to rules. And I would imagine that in the future one of the rules would be that your rig has to have proper wheel brakes for safety.

Now if you spend your money on your wheels to run with the hubs flipped in then it will be a PITA to run wheel brakes. If you got them flipped out then no problem.

You may never need wheel brakes but if you run with the hubs flipped then you can never get them. And I carnt see any advantage to run them with them flipped in anyway. It wont make you any narrower if you have to get custom rims made.

I can understand running them in if you can by a 15x10 rim with 4in backspace for a rockwell stud pattern but I dont think that you can (I definately carnt)

Sam

if you use soft springs the pinion brake can actually cause spring wrap...of course this is not hard to solve...Otherwise, the pinion brake is a cheap and viable option..just depends on what floats your boat.:D

CJ,

I would have thought that if you ran hubs fliped out with massive backspacing would put the wheel in the exact same position as what you are running with the hubs flipped in with the 4in backspacing.

Lets say that with the hubs flipped the wms is 10in wider (thats 5in each side) So if you ran your hubs flipped out with your rims with 9in backspaced (instead of four) then everything would be in the exact same position and the hub drive flange would also stick out the same distance.

Sam

Rover, yeah you might be right there, that would make more sense wouldn't it. Also, with the hubs flipped out the drive flange really doesn't stick out :P

Umm, retract my statement.



CJ:usa:

I have no worries about spring wrap (4 link front and rear). I just see pinion brake as a cheap, easy solution. how much will wheel disk brakes be and how much will they cost? I don't have a whole lot of time or a whole lot of money.

Does any one know how much rims are going to cost? and are 15" rims big enough to fit over the hub or do i need to get 16's?

As far as safty it should be almost as safe. Still have dual master cylinder.

as far as being thrown throught the windshield, it is called calculating pedal ratio and designing your brake system, not throwing it together.


Thanks for all the great help

For my use, MUD, pinion brakes are the only solution. We run bigger engines with less vacuum making braking kinda fun at times. My pinion brakes work great with what little vacuum I have and I assume would work great without a booster at all. Pinion brakes are also of course higher up and out of the mud. Remember with pinion brakes and open diffs during emergency stops that one tire will probably lock up and the other spin sending you side ways. Easy solution is to Lincoln Locker it of course! I love mine and would never go back to all the hassle of typical brakes on an offroad vehicle.
http://www.homestead.com/teamzebra/files/Zfrontaxle.jpg

Originally posted by TRD
I have no worries about spring wrap (4 link front and rear). I just see pinion brake as a cheap, easy solution. how much will wheel disk brakes be and how much will they cost? I don't have a whole lot of time or a whole lot of money.

Does any one know how much rims are going to cost? and are 15" rims big enough to fit over the hub or do i need to get 16's?


Thanks for all the great help

Your right with the 4 link you won't have the spring wrap problem.. As for the disc brake set-up..I can send you pictures of the rockwell pinion brake set-up I did on a set ..The grand total in parts was 120 dollars:eek: (that included two rotors,two calipers(without cores) and the caliper bolts)..Just made my own bracket out of 1/4 plate..If interested e-mail me about the brakes. and yes a 15 inch rim will fit.If you flip the hub in to the narrow WMS then about the most backspacing you can run is 3.5 inches. if you run more than that then you have to grind on the side of knuckle for rim clearence..I do believe MRT sells them for about $200 a piece..they had qouted me a price of $118 for a complete rim minus the center..I have a source for the centers($125 for 4)..But, any machine shop should be able to make the centers cheap..MRT centers for the rockwells are nothing more than a straight piece of plate with the lug holes and center cut out(at least the ones I have seen)..good luck..:D

I ended up using my old 15 inch homemade beadlocks that I used when I had a dana 44 front and 12 bolt rear. I ground the welds that hold the centers to the wheel and knocked the centers out. I then had some centers made for 120 bucks. I just finished welding them in. I choose 2 inches of backspacing cause I didn't want the hub sticking out past the wheel where it would catch on stuff. Eventually I plan on running locking hubs and I don't want them damaged. I am going to run pinion brakes as well, just need something to slow me down when crawling. So the rockwell is like 3 inches wider (hubs flipped in) than the my fullwidth 44 front and I have less back spacing so I am about 5 inches wider than when I was fullwidth, not too bad, definitely less than if I ran the hubs flipped out! I was thinking of running like prelude rotor and caliper cause they are small and I'd like better clearance than if I ran the standard chevy 1/2 ton stuff.

Originally posted by ECF
Eventually I plan on running locking hubs and I don't want them damaged. I am going to run pinion brakes as well, just need something to slow me down when crawling. So the rockwell is like 3 inches wider (hubs flipped in) than the my fullwidth 44 front and I have less back spacing so I am about 5 inches wider than when I was fullwidth, not too bad, definitely less than if I ran the hubs flipped out.

SO, rockwells don't have locking hubs in the front? and you realize that when you do get locking hubs your front pinion brake won't work uness the hubs are locked?

I drive min on the street and not having locking hubs isn't acceptable (welded front). How much are the locking hubs and disk brake conversion?

And if i run a lot of backspacing with hubs flipped out am i going to be hitting the hubs on everything?

Thanks for all the great help

Ok... I'm getting 15" wheels made to fit my Current Bogger tires
What is the backspace i should get on my wheels running with No Hub Flip... i've been told anywhere from 4-9" and i figured i would ask here to end all.
Pinion Brakes and No Hub Flip, 4 Wheel steer on a Full Size, Soon to be Dovetailed.
Also... anyone know Bead Thickness on a Bogger ?

Any help would be awesome. Thanks. A.J.

I know this thread is really old but I was wondering....
Does anyone have any before and after pics of their hub flip?

I am looking at the rocks I am going to buy and I can see the advantages of flipping the front hub except for the fact that the cernter section looks like it will still stick way out there.

I run my hubs flipped in with a set h1 rims. With a 3 or 3.5inch backspacing. My drive flanges stick out about a 1" to 1.5. Ive ground these flanges on rock's intell they were thorw'n sparks. Hit trees hauling ass down trails.And no breaks. I like my width of my axle set-up. I can run with the smaller axle guys yota and sami's and 60 guys. . Its like 86.5 to 87 inchs wide.Out side of tires.

Only problem ive seen running wide rims with lots of back spaceing over 6"s. It's that you are more likey to bend a rims. Less strenth. And ive seen acouple bend myself. Running with a group of 10 rigs run'n rockwells. From mild to wild rigs.

On flipping the hubs. You can also take a 1/8' off the hubs. And a little off of the lug bolt head to. And if your going to run a big tire run a rim over 16.5. or your going to have a ton of wheel hop and more side wall problems. As for brakes. Fuck wheelbrakes on rockwells that for mall cruiser and jeepers. Just run pinion brakes. I got like $150 in mine with four piston capi. :D

Yawwwwnnnn. Hey, who woke me up.

JYS

On flipping the hubs. You can also take a 1/8' off the hubs. And a little off of the lug bolt head to. And if your going to run a big tire run a rim over 16.5. or your going to have a ton of wheel hop and more side wall problems. As for brakes. Fuck wheelbrakes on rockwells that for mall cruiser and jeepers. Just run pinion brakes. I got like $150 in mine with four piston capi. :D

Shit man, simply for the sake of a dollar I am going to run pinions. Pick them up for $80 @USA 6x6. Probably even cheaper if I do it myself. I cant put breaks on my car hauler that cheap.

Thanks for the info....
Anyone else?
I would like to see some pics.
This just seems way to easy to me.
Let me make sure I am understanding this right. You simply turn the hub on the front axle, exactly they same way you would on the rear axle. Except on the front, the studs need to be replaced with bolts and the wheel studs need to be shaved down a bit as dose the hub.


Yawwwwnnnn. Hey, who woke me up.

JYS
what the fuck is this shit, you supposed to be cool or something. You some kind of internet tuff guy. Fuck off bitch

you'd be better off doing them yourself than ordering from that fuck Daniel Little.

But why beat a dead horse? Someone's got to pay him, right? :flipoff2:

It is as easy as you think.

what the fuck is this shit, you supposed to be cool or something. You some kind of internet tuff guy. Fuck off bitch

He was one of the original posters from over 4 yrs ago. Did you actually read the thread before you spouted off?

what the fuck is this shit, you supposed to be cool or something. You some kind of internet tuff guy. Fuck off bitch



sounds like yer the intarweb tough guy, i almost shit myself out of fear, when i read this...

He was one of the original posters from over 4 yrs ago. Did you actually read the thread before you spouted off?

Yea I read the whole thing...twice in fact.

If you read my question you see I was asking for 'before and after' pictures. I wasnt asking how to do it, why to do it, how its done, etc, etc. I was asking for pictures. Did you read my question?

What I dont understand is why you fuck sticks who gain just a little bit of knowledge all of sudden consinder your selves 4x4 guroos. Its no wonder people dont want to fucken post here, you cant even ask a legit question without being flamed. Its okay, I have done my share of flamen too but....
Copenhagen
I've got two and half inches of semi hard cock to shove in your ear fuck wad; shit your self over that.

Tacoma, thanks for the help man

Yea I read the whole thing...twice in fact.

If you read my question you see I was asking for 'before and after' pictures. I wasnt asking how to do it, why to do it, how its done, etc, etc. I was asking for pictures. Did you read my question?

What I dont understand is why you fuck sticks who gain just a little bit of knowledge all of sudden consinder your selves 4x4 guroos. Its no wonder people dont want to fucken post here, you cant even ask a legit question without being flamed. Its okay, I have done my share of flamen too but....
Copenhagen
I've got two and half inches of semi hard cock to shove in your ear fuck wad; shit your self over that.

Tacoma, thanks for the help man
Dude, you're not getting it - his joke about waking up an old thread has nothing to do with your question... It was just a joke. Did Santa pee in your cheerios??

Merry Fuckin Christmas!

Dude, you're not getting it - his joke about waking up an old thread has nothing to do with your question... It was just a joke. Did Santa pee in your cheerios??

Merry Fuckin Christmas!

LOL!

Copenhagen
I've got two and half inches of semi hard cock to shove in your ear fuck wad; shit your self over that.

Tacoma, thanks for the help man

HAAHAHAHAHAH that's the funnay right there.

No problem, I'd rather people chiseled brackets out of slag iron than deal with whatshisname.

I used to do some work in Massillon. Nice little town.

Yea I read the whole thing...twice in fact.

If you read my question you see I was asking for 'before and after' pictures. I wasnt asking how to do it, why to do it, how its done, etc, etc. I was asking for pictures. Did you read my question?

What I dont understand is why you fuck sticks who gain just a little bit of knowledge all of sudden consinder your selves 4x4 guroos. Its no wonder people dont want to fucken post here, you cant even ask a legit question without being flamed. Its okay, I have done my share of flamen too but....
Copenhagen
I've got two and half inches of semi hard cock to shove in your ear fuck wad; shit your self over that.

Tacoma, thanks for the help man


guru imo ftw



And I have one and a quarter inches of mostly limp dick for your left nostril...

So which hubs do you flip? Front or rear? I just want to achieve the same WMS measurements, or close to it. What are my options and the different WMS measurements. I do want to still fit on the trailer! Thanks!

Either hub can be flipped either way. The front hubs are flipped out in stock form so the front end is wider. The rear hubs are flipped in in stock form, so the rear end is narrower. I know people who flip both out and both in, just depending on how wide you want to be.

J. J.

Flipping the rear is straight forward, no machining required if running pinion brakes. The front axle will need modification, you can either machine down the studs or the replacement bolt heads, since they will bind. I chose to countersink my spindle and run countersink hex bolts. Here is a pic of the countersink.
http://forum.neow.net/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=11586

I flipped my rears and run around 6" of bs on H1 rims and my width is around 7 6. Just to give you an idea, either way it is going to be wide.

Narrowed housings, hubs out, 9" wheels with 6.5" BS = 83-84" wide.. That's not too bad.

Flipping the rear is straight forward, no machining required if running pinion brakes. The front axle will need modification, you can either machine down the studs or the replacement bolt heads, since they will bind. I chose to countersink my spindle and run countersink hex bolts. Here is a pic of the countersink.
http://forum.neow.net/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=11586

Your pictures don't work

Your computer sucks.

Your computer sucks.

no its yours that is no good

cant see it on my home or work pc either.
Problem has to be on your end

Your computer sucks.

i also cannot see it, your computer sucks :flipoff2:

When torching off the drums on the rear axle, is it safe to torch it right flush wit h the square housing? I am talking about the part that is riveted and goes from square tube to round. My plasma wouldn't cut that thick shit and then I was thinking that maybe the rivets held the spindle on the end of the axle. Anyone cut this section off? If so de we need to put a bead of weld to hold the spindle on or is it stong? Thanks for your help. I can't wait until I am done with this build-up!

Cut away. It is just a flange cast in with the axle tubes to hold the brake backing plates. It is about an inch thick if I recall though.

Just for reference, I am using OEM's Super 8 Hub conversion, which puts the flange a little further out than stock hubs flipped out. WMS is about 72" IIRC the way I have it. (Using 2 stock width front ends.) I use 9" wide wheels w/ 6.5" of BS and 14" wide tires and I am about 85" wide. My rims are 17".

J. J.

Cut away. It is just a flange cast in with the axle tubes to hold the brake backing plates. It is about an inch thick if I recall though.

So you dont have to re-weld the seam after cutting?

Don't cut away any seams. Just cut down to the square housing. It's cast into the housing. You're not compromising the housing by cutting that flange off.

Look at most other cut rear ends. You can tell where they cut that flange off.

J. J.

can you post a pic of what your looked like after cutting?

No because I have 2 front ends and no rear ends. But I've seen them on the trail just about everywhere I go. Maybe someone can find a pic?

J. J.

Thanks for your help, cool pics in you patooyee.com link.

How much will i have to machine off the back of my wheel studs to clear the spindle rivets? Or how much will have to grind down the rivets to clear my wheel studs... or half on each etc. I don't want to compromise the strength of my wheels studs...

Does anyone have pics of this done?

If your flopping the front hubs. Run grade 8 bolt instead of the studs. I think it like a 1/8" off the stud and 1/8" off the back off of the hub.

ah i see... i was confused i guess for a second... i better wait til i put this axle together before spouting off...

I guess i'm having difficulty figuring out what the wheels studs are going to rub on... not having started to put mine together yet. Does it hit the studs that bolts the spindle on? Knuckle has a bunch of studs on it, spindle goes on and nuts hold it on... is that what it hits? the top of those studs? If so, yes it seems you can just run bolts instead of the studs and nuts right?

again, anyone have pics?

ah i see... i was confused i guess for a second... i better wait til i put this axle together before spouting off...

I guess i'm having difficulty figuring out what the wheels studs are going to rub on... not having started to put mine together yet. Does it hit the studs that bolts the spindle on? Knuckle has a bunch of studs on it, spindle goes on and nuts hold it on... is that what it hits? the top of those studs? If so, yes it seems you can just run bolts instead of the studs and nuts right?

again, anyone have pics?


get rid of the studs and use 3/8" x 1" grade 8 bolts.. then on the back of the lug nut studs there is a bevel on them.. machine them down till the bevel is gone and your done

ah i see... i was confused i guess for a second... i better wait til i put this axle together before spouting off...

I guess i'm having difficulty figuring out what the wheels studs are going to rub on... not having started to put mine together yet. Does it hit the studs that bolts the spindle on? Knuckle has a bunch of studs on it, spindle goes on and nuts hold it on... is that what it hits? the top of those studs? If so, yes it seems you can just run bolts instead of the studs and nuts right?

again, anyone have pics?

yes you got it, when you flip the hubs the back of the lug studs hit the OEM 3/8 studs that hold the spindle on, you need to run bolts since the 3/8 studs have a nut and a 1/4'' or so of stud sticking out, thats what hits. i did'nt machine my wheel lug studs, i used a belt sander and took the 1/8 or so off with that, worked just as good. sorry no pict's, jason.

i got it now, thanks a lot...

yup very easy replace the studs in the spindle and about a half hour with a grinder on the studs grounded mine down so there was no more taper and works great!

hey. you guys can go ahead and machine the lugs if you want but I think I found a quicker easier way to do the flip. remove the spindle studs, get a GOOD countersink and countersink the mounting holes in the spindle. I got some 3/8 countersunk bolts with an allen head. Works great. If you happen to break, crossthread or mess up a stud its no big deal . re-install a stock one.

unpossible!!!

yer a pioneer, no one has ever thought of that.

thanks for the input.

unpossible!!!

yer a pioneer, no one has ever thought of that.

thanks for the input.

Dont you have a rig to be finishing:flipoff2:

Intell them allen bolt hole's get field with dirt,grease,oil and small rocks. And you cant get that allen wrench all the way in there and strip it out. Hell my stanrd bolt are rough on the edges from this.

Im up grading to flange bolts. To put more surface area on the spindle shoulder. Im going to start running water in the front tires.

:smokin: well how manu times are you actually going to have to remove that spindle ? Honestly. If you strip out an allen big fuckin deal, insert easy out in the hole and remove it. If you are so worried about getting mud packed in the holes wipe some rtv or silicone into the hole b4 you put the hub back on. Dig it out later, easier to dig silicone than dirt and grease.

wipe some rtv or silicone into the hole b4 you put the hub back on. Dig it out later, easier to dig silicone than dirt and grease.

good solution.