The raging swamper vs. MT/R debate here:

Any bad impressions of the 37" MTR? (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50319)

makes A FEW good points in the favor of radials. Some of them are interesting to me since I run a lightweight ZUK...like more flex and lighter weight.

I have MT/R's on my DD Trooper which I also wheel, and I've been happy with them. Mud is unavoidable around here, and like many of you, I really have a hard time believeing the MT/R tread could do as well in mud as a swamper tread which leads me to my point.

Might the Radial Swamper be the best of both worlds?

I realize the sidewalls are not as strong as an SX, but heavy tires w/ super stiff sidewalls have their own drawbacks on light weight vehicles, and any sidewall will be stronger, relatively speaking, on a lighter vehicle with less power. I also find it interesting how few first hand reports there are of thrashed sidewalls on the MT/R considering the high % of people running them in one of the most extreme conditions, competition...maybe the rules are changing somewhat. It seems quite possible the Radial TSL could have weaker sidewalls than the MT/R's though.

If you care to make a recommendation for my personal situation, here is the pertinent info:

- Sammi ( i.e. LIGHT) locked F/R
- 33" tire
- 90% Trail, 10% Town, Flat-towed
- Rock & Dirt mix mostly, also mud, dirt, loose rock....occationally all rock.

These are the tires I am considering and I have spent many hours on here searching and reading various tire debate threads to get to this point:

1. Swamper TSL 33/12.5 (33.7 actual, 60lbs)
2. Swamper LTB 33/13.5 (32.8 actual, 62lbs)
and the longshots...
3. Radial TSL 33x12.5 (32.7 actual, 55 lbs)
4. MT/R 35x12.5 (bec. it is 34.4 actual or within about a 1/2" of the 33 TSL, ??lbs)

Ruled out:
- SX exluded bec. I dont really care for the 15.5" width on the 33 SX on a Sammi (70 lbs)
- SSR excluded bec. why? on a 90% trail rig
- Bogger excluded bec. does seem to be as good of an all-around tire as a swamper based on my interpretation of 100's of posts here and some advise from people who live around here.

That's all I can think of...tire debates beat Xterra debates...where is my damn nomex?

how many times are you guys going to ask this stupid question. I dont care how many stupid little high tech things they do to a tread pattern, it all comes down to tread gap size and tire compound. If it has bigger gaps and stickier compound then go for it. Obviously this means the swamper radial and go get the center lugs siped so you can have all those little extra biting edges that those suposedly hightech tires are supposed to offer you. The only reason all those competition guys run them is because they are already strapped for cash and they get them for free. so just buck up and quit buying tires that in my opinion look like all terrains!:flipoff2:

:beer: to you if you get the swampers.
MTRs are :rainbow:

FWIW, and it isn't much, I called Interco to ask about the LTB since first hand experience is almost non-existent here or elsewhere on the net. After numerous busy signals, holds, and "call back after lunch" tries, I got a hold of one of their "technical experts." I was not impressed with his expertise.

Q: Why a LTB? What is the difference b/t it and a regular TSL? How do I decide which to buy b/t 33 LTB and 33 TSL?
A: He said the are made in Mexico now not India. There main feature is that they are cheaper. He said they are getting reports from customers that they are finding them *more* durable than the std TSL. He did not know if the current Mexico compound was any different that the std TSL. He did not THINK it was. He said the India version was more natural rubber which was harder than a TSL (opposite of what I have read). He did not know if the side lugs were different. He pointed out that the center tread is different (easy enough to see in the pics) and that the widths are different (easy enough for anyone who can read to see)...basically it was of little help.

Q: Is there anyone else there who has the full scoop on the LTB's?
A: "ahhh....not really...no."

Originally posted by Shrock
- SSR excluded bec. why? on a 90% trail rig

People are gonna flame me for this, but the SSR does really well off-road. I think there's a general misconception that because it does so well on the street it can't possibly do well in the dirt. I would disagree. Plus, I think it's arguable that the SSR sidewalls are necessarily any weaker than a Radial TSL (which is a tire you are readily considering).

I don't put much stock in the mags but did you see the mud "test" in 4WOR? Supposedly the only tire to go further in their mud pit was the Bogger.

I'd go so far as to say that if it was NOT for the SSR's weak radial sidewalls it would be the ultimate all-around tire for mud, street, and 'crawling. Flame suit on.

RE SSR

I did not explain it, but part of the reason I said "why?" on a ORV was price.

SSR 31-12.50R-15 $171
Radial TSL 33-12.50R-15 $138
TSL 33x12.50x15 $135
LTB 33x13.50x15 $120

It $204 a set more for the SSR's than the LTB's. I cant see any reason it would be worth it on a vehicle that spends most of its time offroad. On a mixed use rig...maybe, but I'd personally still probably get the Radial TSL.

i have helped build up about 6 zuks and the best tire for a stock wheel base we have used has been the 32x10.5 super swamper radial. this is on a 80" wheel base, i have 33s on mine and a 82" wheel base and i am pulling wheelies all the time. 35s are terrible on 80" wheel base, i ran them for a week, saw lots of sky. if you are planning to do any big ledges beware of the tire size with such a short wheelbase. the 32 flex great on a zuk with about 6 to 8 lbs. of air. and clear with out any major sawsalls work. mike

o yea they are cheap too.

I've run TSL Radials AND MT/Rs. The TSL/R has an incredibly weak sidewall. I trashed three tires in less than two months. This is a rockcrawling rig. I ran MT/Rs for a year on the same trails and barely scratched them.

FWIW, I run SX now and there's no going back.
Dion

Had an interesting talk with gunracer1 on the phone. He wheels with a group of 6 Sammi's. He said one of them runs the 32 TSL Radials he mentioned above and could drive circlres around the rest of them on Boggers, two on 33 SX, Procomp MT, BFG MT. He said 33x15 SX barely flexes onder the sammi until 2 psi.

Looks like the radial TSL is coming up fast from behind. I'm thinking 33 since I have an 83" wheelbase and the 33 is only actually .7" taller than the 32 but 2" wider.

i would run bias ply sx that i had to pay full price for before i would run a free radial tire of any brand.

Well, because of my 140 mile round trip commute to work, I went with the MTR's. I've not got about 400 miles on them. (Went to work and back twice :D) Anyway. I do have to say, they make GREAT street tires. Very smooth. Now, whether or not they do well offroad is another story. I have yet to take them off road, so I won't know till I get offroad. If they do the same, or God Forbid, WORSE than my BFG's did, then I'll invest in a set of OMF beadlocks, and some swampers for the trail. And keep the MTR's for STREET tires.
Scott

32x10.5 Radial/TSLs....
I got em on a lwb toyota pickup. they are great, very sticky, dig well in mud, with these tires i run circles around my buddy's V8 toy w/BFG's (i know, BFG's, but still). this is mostly in NW mud, BTW. i like them.

all that said, I'm going to be getting some bias ply swampers as soon as summer's over and I have extra money. still trying to decide between 34x10.5 LTBs and 34x9.5 TSLs....need something to tide me over until I can get some real rubber.:usa:

i say get a 33x12.50 tsl. these are great off-road tires and they are relatively cheap. mike (gunracer1) is right about tire size though. i do think it is wise to lenthen a zuk for extream wheeling. i have a couple of buddy's who wheel lengthend sami's (97" wheelbases) and 36x12.50 sx's. one of them is here in springtown tx and you should talk to him about lengthening one. he will tell you how much it helped stability and wheeling abitlity. he also runs waggy d44's and wrangler springs.

My Opinion: for a flat towed trail rig, get the bias ply swampers. For what I've seen on Zuk's, you might want to look at the 34x9.5 TSL's. They are the same size as the 33x12.5 TSL's but will do much better in the mud, esp on a light rig. (33.8" vs 33.7")

Just some thoughts....

The only reason all those competition guys run them is because they are already strapped for cash and they get them for free

Go read Lance's post in this thread

MTR Thread (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50319)

You are wrong in making that statement. just thought you might want to get hte facts straight:D