Looking to get some fresh power in my zook. Is there a big difference between the 1600 and 1300. I have dual carbs, cam and a header. I love the revs too. I've heard the 1600s have a problem throwing rod and the 16v crack head between the valves. Anybody got first hand experences? Oh yeah I keep hearing people say the 16v make the same power as a 22r toy. Maybe in stock trim, but you can get over 200ponys out of them and after that you can buss them like a 1300. Just some food for thought.:rasta:

It's about 60HP vs 96 HP in stock trim going to the 1.6 16V, a 60% increase.

Using more normal (outside sammi world) figures, bumping a 130HP enginge 60% would be 208HP. I'd say you'll notice the difference a bit. :D

1.3 = 60HP
1.6 8V = 80 hp
1.6 16V = 96 hp

Hi Darby -

I just wanted to mention here that what people are missing and not quite realizing is the HP specs given for the 1.3, 16 8V and 16 16V are PEAK HP ratings - at 5200 to 6000 RPM's. What we are missing here is that the 16 valve makes over DOUBLE the HP at say 2500 RPM, so where a 1.3 or 1.6 8 valve could be making 25 to 30HP at 2500 RPM, the 16 valve is already making somewhere around 56HP. This is why there is such an incredible difference in real world performance between the 8 valve and 16 valve motors.

Brent, dammit, your creating an uncontrollable urge deep within me to go out and get a 16v. I wouldn't be in so much anguish right now if I would have budgeted my project a little better so I could do the swap. One question though. Do you need to swap the wiring harness and ecu with the 16v? How hard is it to put the gti head on those suckers and what does that bump the power output up to?

Guess thats two questions!(and they said college would make me smarter)

I have a 1.6 8 valve in my sami. It was a world of diff between that and the tired 1.3 BUT I still want more. I shouldv'e waited and done a 16 valve, but this was in the pre-trail tough era.

Starting on a new one- I'd go with a 16 valve 1.6. No brainer...

Originally posted by nuttzack
How hard is it to put the gti head on those suckers and what does that bump the power output up to?

It is really easy to throw a Gti head on a 1.6. The whole swap (mechanical stuff) only took about 1 day, except a broken crank bolt that took several hours. I will be hooking up the electrical stuff next weekend. But that shouldn't take more than a couple of hours considering I have elimnated everything that is not needed and I am running dual sidedrafts. Ross Makensey at Rospen Motor Sports is a good resource on this stuff. He has done a few of these on swift Gti's for racing when I get everything going I will let you know how the power is.

BTW Rospen Motor Sports web site is:
http://members.iinet.net.au/~rospen/index.html

Later
Levi

:beer: :smokin: :beer:

8 Valve EFI to 16 Valve EFI would be more than an hour - I'm guessing. I have trouble with wiring trailer lights so I'm putting it in the "impossible mods" pile.

Originally posted by Darby
Looking to get some fresh power in my zook. Is there a big difference between the 1600 and 1300. I have dual carbs, cam and a header. I love the revs too. I've heard the 1600s have a problem throwing rod and the 16v crack head between the valves. Anybody got first hand experences? Oh yeah I keep hearing people say the 16v make the same power as a 22r toy. Maybe in stock trim, but you can get over 200ponys out of them and after that you can buss them like a 1300. Just some food for thought.:rasta:

Toy versus 16V - the Toy is heavy!

1300 vs 1600 - if you need RPMs stay with the 1300 - the 1300 is able to rev to 8000RPM before breaking a piston speed of 3500 ft/s. The 1600 does this at redline (6500 RPM). The 1300 is a better high RPM choice. But there are other reasons to go 1600.

r@m

Do you need to swap the wiring harness and ecu with the 16v?

Yes, but if you let Brent re-work the harness from the donor, I understand that you will be left with only 8-10 labled easy to just plug in connections. I think it runs about $400.

16v? How hard is it to put the gti head on those suckers and what does that bump the power output up to?

What would be the advantage to this since you already have the 16V head? DOHC? Since it was designed for a smaller 1.3L, might you has some flow issues? Don't know, just askin'?

Anyone head of any plans for a 16V SUMO II type head? When mine needs to be rebuilt, that is what I would want.

One other thing, what Brent says is very true. Peak power is only a piece of the puzzle. Anyone ever seen a dyno chart for any of these engines? I haver never run across one.

It would be interesting to see the differences for torque and HP at various RPM levels.

Originally posted by Shrock

What would be the advantage to this since you already have the 16V head? DOHC? Since it was designed for a smaller 1.3L, might you has some flow issues?

This is the hot setup for the auto-x/rallye guys - it is worth an easy 20hp without doing anything else.

Normally, DOHC is MUCH better flow over SOHC 16V plus you have the oppportunity to tune the intake and exhaust cams independently of each other.

Not sure, I think it bumps the CR up half a point too.

I don't think the DOHC is that great a gain over the SOHC on a truck though - unless you see lots of highway miles or are DD. I want to do this mod to my Esteem eventually.

r@m

Hi -

There is no good reason to put the twin cam head on a 1600 16 Valve bottom end. I have done it and here is what I have found . The SOHC 16 valve head breathes better, makes substantially more power, flows better, uses a larger throttle body and MAF sensor, and has less rotating mass and friction. A Twin cam head on a 16 valve bottom end presents a number of problems as well. The small oil galleys fill with oil at sustained high RPM causing oil to be drawn into the air cleaner. Also, the added inch in block height causes cam timing issues. In order to degree the cams it requires a custom 8 degree off-set crank key. And when it is all said and done, the SOHC motor in stock form will run excellent, have more than sufficient power, and is more reliable.

I guessed right. Score one for the newbies! I think it is funny that Brent is a "newbie". Just goes to show you that post count doesn't equal knowlede amount. But is my case it probably works pretty well. :rasta:

Originally posted by Shrock
I guessed right. Score one for the newbies! I think it is funny that Brent is a "newbie". Just goes to show you that post count doesn't equal knowlede amount. But is my case it probably works pretty well. :rasta:

I suggest you do a little more research before accepting what has been posted as absolute fact.

Do a google search on Swift/Cultus/Baleno/etc. and see what the car guys are doing.

The DOHC is bolt on from a mechanical perspective but if you don't deal with the ECU and fuel enrichment (lack of) issues it definately will not get you anything.

$0.02

r@m

(edit: I will agree with Brent that it has little benefit for a SAmurai/TracKick application that will be worked off-road)

Agreed, I'm sure it could be worked over to make great power at high RPM's.