I've posted on Norcalbroncos and dysfunctional so I thought one more site couldn't hurt.

Here's a challenging question for you 5.0 experts.

Question? Are 5.0 HO MAS Air engines going to be the same if set up as described below.

I've located a 1990 Lincoln Mark VII with a 5.0 HO that is indeed mas air. If I pull the entire engine...put a mustang computer and a RJM after market harness (Made specifically for the EB swap) on it but run everything else from the Mark VII...wouldn't it essentially be the same as a mustang motor? Or are the heads/intake/engine internals going to be specific to the Mark VII? Can't see why ford would do that. I can see why the front accessories would vary and maybe even the throttle body but would think the rest would be the same. Do you know the answer or how I can find out the answer?

I can get the engine and everything forward the flywheel for $140.00 and it looks fresh/low miles.

????

I'm not an expert, but I have an 88 Mark LSC. As far as I know it's identical to the Mustang engine. Just make sure it's the HO, not the standard 5.0

Yes, you would essentially have a Mustang engine at that point. And I was just kidding around about you being at your question quota. :D

To funny....I know you were joking. I just wanted to move this to pirate for the larger audience. Since you're here...and the quota has been increased...I have a separate question.

The stock EB uses the old firing order and the HO engine use the new. Do you have to swap the cam in the old EB 302 engine to run the 5.0 HO stuff. I've read changing just causes idling issues...but am not sure if that is only after swaping cams or without swapping.

Back to the above question. Lets take it a step further. There is an even cleaner 5.0 engine I can get that appears to only have 35K on it, but it is Speed Density. Regardless, couldn't I change it to MAS air with the RJM harness and a mustang computer? Or do i have to swap cams? This engine is in a Lincoln Town car. My thinking is this...get the engine with low miles Put the 5.0 HO Heads/intake/throttle body/fuel rails/injectors/etc on it (while I'm still in the yard) and then put the RJM harness and mustang computer on it when I get it home. It all comes back to the cam question. Do I need to replace the cam to go from an SD engine or original EB engine to run HO.

Math:

Engine 139.00
Harness 550.00...this is the problem...too much!! modifying one is a pain!
computer 100.00
Fuel sys 150.00
sensors 175.00 (new and used)
Headers 469.00

Okay...that adds up quick. I can get the GT40 motor from an explorer at a wrecking yard for 950.00 (Only got one quote...probably high)...but how many miles are on it...does it need to be rebuilt? With the above, I'd be looking at an engine block with what I believe to be just 35K on it. No it wouldn't flow like the GT40 would, but it would be close.

Lets here it.

use the stock harness, it is really not that freakin hard to make it work. besides. $550 is a aweful lot for a harness.

if it is a windsor motor it will work. doesnt matter if it is 302 order or 351w order. i have ran a 1962 221 from my fairlane with a painless harness. right now i have a 96 ex lower end with 66 mustang heads and 91 mustang efi with the same harness. ive never had any problems with any of my setups. run it and it will work.

Changing the cam to a HO firing order cam is one of those questions that you get different answers to. I know some people that did not change the cam and their engine idled a little rough. Then again I know people that did not change the cam and their engine idled just fine. When I had my first 5.0 engine (that was not an HO engine) I did not change the cam and it ran just fine. Once I did get around to changing the cam, I think it ran slightly smoother. And of course, I put in a bigger cam in so I saw a big power increase too.

So I guess to answer your question, do you HAVE to change the cam? No. But I propbably would.

use the stock harness, it is really not that freakin hard to make it work. besides. $550 is a aweful lot for a harness.

That's what I was thinking. Save the cash...can't be that hard. Now I just need to know how. Can you direct me to any how to's?

Marlon

are you certain that the lincoln motor is MAF? IIRC, all of them were speed density. I seem to recall the lincoln harned being alot more complicated as well, with the cruise and such being part of the harness.

Internaly the motors are the same (HO to HO)

I know my 89 mark VII LSC was a SD motor, and my 89' stang was a MAF motor.

didn't I give you a copy of that wiring diagram for the 89-93 5.0's? print it out on a color printer, it's all you really need.

No...I didn't get that. I'd sure appreciate it. Are you talking about the one on Ford Fuel Injection?

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/Wiring_harnesses.htm
this is it in a complete skemmy

color coded is so much easier to understand. ;)



http://www.1ton4x4.com/EFI/tps/88-91Stang5[1].0EECPinout.gif

The cam duration and lift on the Mustang motor might be slightly bigger then that Lincoln. So the Mustang motor probably does put out more power, but you can find a TFS stage 1 cam or even an Alphabet cam for around $100 off Ebay and really waken the motor up. All the crap listed below ive bought for my 351W EFI swap in my 69 Bronco. Hopefully everything should go smoothly. Though i bought the Engine harness when Ford was still producing it, i dont believe they are anymore.

Use the factory engine harness if its in good shape, but replace the Main harness with this FMS one for $210http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FMS%2DM%2D12071%2DK302&N=700+115&autoview=sku

If you want to replace your sensors you can get most of them for $85http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FMS%2DM%2D12071%2DK302&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Is there a reason you need $500 headers?
Im running these Hookers but without the ceramic coating and they cost me $180. They should work with all trannys, and they work with the 351W. Thats why i went with them.http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HOK%2D6909%2D1HKR&N=700+115&autoview=sku

FYI the new 5.0 HO firing order is the old 351W firing order. You can change the cams back and forth (Older stuff no roller) and just need the corresponding firing order.
302-cam = 302 firing order
351 cam = 351 firing order

No matter weather the 302 cam is in a 351 or vice versa

that's all some good info guys, since this is a a thread on 5.0 questions, I have one also, I got a 5.0 from a 1990 towncar (non HO) to put the efi into my bronco, will I have to upgrade computer & injectors, etc to match my engine or will the computer be able to compensate for my upgrades?? I have a stock bottom end with edelbrock performer aluminum heads & the performer power package with intake, cam, carb, also have thorly headers, msd-offroad ignition, & roller rockers. thanx

that's all some good info guys, since this is a a thread on 5.0 questions, I have one also, I got a 5.0 from a 1990 towncar (non HO) to put the efi into my bronco, will I have to upgrade computer & injectors, etc to match my engine or will the computer be able to compensate for my upgrades?? I have a stock bottom end with edelbrock performer aluminum heads & the performer power package with intake, cam, carb, also have thorly headers, msd-offroad ignition, & roller rockers. thanx

If its a speed density set up its not going to like your upgrades, especially those heads and cam. Youll need to convert it over to MAF

Couple things, the lincoln ho and stang ho, they are the same motor, efi and all, the lincoln will have more wires in the harness do to the fact that itss loaded with electronic goodies.

As far as the firing order/cam, if you don't change it when you switch over to the mass air then you aren't really any better off then the SD as the fuel will be just sitting at the intake port droping out of suspension, plus it'd be a good excuse to upgrade to a bigger cam too, as that will give you the biggest power gain overall.

that's all some good info guys, since this is a a thread on 5.0 questions, I have one also, I got a 5.0 from a 1990 towncar (non HO) to put the efi into my bronco, will I have to upgrade computer & injectors, etc to match my engine or will the computer be able to compensate for my upgrades?? I have a stock bottom end with edelbrock performer aluminum heads & the performer power package with intake, cam, carb, also have thorly headers, msd-offroad ignition, & roller rockers. thanx

That Lincoln EFI setup will rob serious power, you get puny 14# injectors good for about 250 hp, 55mm throttle body and a very choked intake manifold. All its good for is the sensors and fuel lines, the mustang/Mark 7 HO setup is at least capable of handling near 350 hp on the stock injectors with a fuel pressure regulator upgrade.

NONE of the HO lincolns got mass air, if you find one, its been converted over with a mustang computer (A9P most likely) and a piggyback harness.

All EFI HO motors, be it Ford, Lincoln or Mercury (Don't forget the 86 Capri!) are the same, the only differences being-

1986 - 55mm throttle & EGR, smaller upper intake ports, forged flat top pistons, slightly (very slightly) more agressive cam than other year HO motors. E6 passenger car heads (torquey, but no balls up top)

1987 - 60mm TB/EGR/revised HO upper intake, forged pistons with valve releifs, E7 "truck" heads (much better breathing than e6 heads, head swapped 86 motors pick up 15-25 hp)

1988 - California cars got mass air

1989 - All cars get mass air

Nothing much happened between 1990-1992, Ford played with the cam profiles a tad from year to year, but nothing noticable or appreciable in power/TQ diffferences. Airbags enter the market and the ECM has a provision for it.

1993 - Pistons now cast hypers instead of forged (no big deal unless you have spray/forced induction and need the margin of detonation error)

1994+1995 - Revised intake design (flows a tad better) for new model hood, larger MAF, cone type air filter, valve covers now stamped steel low profile instead of the cast aluminum HO covers to clear new intake, revised computer with electric fan control (very finicky computer, needs a handheld tuner like the TwEECer to take advantage of it)

The lincoln HO from the Mark was unchanged in its run, it was identical to the 1987 HO, even shared most of the front accessory drive (better alternator though) Even had the factory shorty tube headers from the mustang (the mark shares the same chassis plus a few inches of wheelbase as the mustang)

thanx for the help & info guys..