Alright.. finally going to get this pitman arm/steering thing sorted out.

I was supposed to look through my buddy's pile last weekend and get one.. but a 2hrs there, 2 back, an hour there..5hr trip was 10, so I didn't dally more than necessary.

Anyhow..

I like JDJanda's GW pitman arm. Looks good.

'Cept I need to know a length - center to center, give or take, and how much drop, so my friend can look through the pile for a match.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~marka/PhotoAlbums/SOAv1/P0000006.sized.jpg

The middle one is a Jeep unit.. right is the Scout.. not sure what's on the left (Mark? you should put descriptions in that album..)

Same friend with all the parts has a pile of EB pitman arms. Would those work? They'll bolt up to the box, but I don't know if they have the correct ("big GM TRE") taper or if they're the right amount of drop and close to length.

Shorter than stock is fine since I'm already running a short steering arm on the knuckle.

I need less drop - to the point where Joe had to cut the end off the TRE to get it to clear the frame. THAT is what I want. :D

So.. who can get me some measurements to pass on?

Meanwhile I heard the GW arm is $35 from Jeep.. trying to get a non-Jeep part number to see if my favorite part store can get one.. and/or I'm going to call the Jeep dealer before I head out for lunch. :)

Waggy is 7.5" center to center

Originally posted by Scout Dude
Waggy is 7.5" center to center

Thanks.. just left a message at Mike's Offroad..

Called Jeep. $52.80 gets me a new one.. arriving the end of next week.

No info on EB pitman arms yet..

Originally posted by tsm1mt

Called Jeep. $52.80 gets me a new one.. arriving the end of next week.


:eek: $5.00 Pick-n-Pull

The other one is Dodge 2wd PU.... 70's.

6" center to center, small Scout style taper. What I have on my truck now.

Waggy was 7" IIRC, with about the same drop.

Waggy: 0.75" drop, Scout: 1.25" drop.

The Dodge arm *barly* misses the frame on my truck, with the small TRE... the Waggy drops just a hair more....

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
The other one is Dodge 2wd PU.... 70's.

6" center to center, small Scout style taper. What I have on my truck now.

Waggy was 7" IIRC, with about the same drop.

Waggy: 0.75" drop, Scout: 1.25" drop.

The Dodge arm *barly* misses the frame on my truck, with the small TRE... the Waggy drops just a hair more....

I wouldn't mind the slightly longer Waggy unit.. but the Dodge part is a lucky hit - my buddy's scrapping out a 70s Dodge 2wd pickup.. we had to drag it out of the "pile" and into the "dismantling line" to make room to put the '74 100 4x4 Tuesday night..

Probably get me back to stock Scout II steering ratio.. not as quick as it is now, but I guess I'll deal.

Only problem is that Scout taper.. I think the new draglink is setup to use the long TREs with the big GM taper on both ends.. and it might be in the mail already. ;)

I presume there's a 7/8" TRE with the Scout taper available.. but we were going with the long (hole for a draglink to "T" into style) TREs for extra clearance over the springs (the thought process is, if the 1.25" DOM will clear OK, then a 7/8" threaded end of a TRE will clear that much better).

But I KNOW I can get my hands on a Dodge pitman arm tonight if I want one.. could just fine a machinist to ream it out..

Originally posted by jdjanda


:eek: $5.00 Pick-n-Pull

No "Pick n' Pull" here, per-se.

I called the two yards "we pull it, you pay".. no Waggies.

THat means I have to hit one of the two "I think there's a Jeep somewhere over thattaway.." yards and spend some time trudging.

Do you remember what size sockets I'll need to pull the draglink nut and pitman nut? Standard 2 or 3-jaw gear puller to yank it, right? or should I go buy a "pitman arm puller"?

Trying to avoid wasting my time at the junkyard... but might have to.

Originally posted by tsm1mt


No "Pick n' Pull" here, per-se.

I called the two yards "we pull it, you pay".. no Waggies.

THat means I have to hit one of the two "I think there's a Jeep somewhere over thattaway.." yards and spend some time trudging.

Do you remember what size sockets I'll need to pull the draglink nut and pitman nut? Standard 2 or 3-jaw gear puller to yank it, right? or should I go buy a "pitman arm puller"?

Trying to avoid wasting my time at the junkyard... but might have to.

My pitman arm nut was/is 1 5/16" Don't buy a cheap pitman arm puller..they will only break...the good ones look like a big socket with a threaded bolt that pushes through it..the other end has a tight 3/4 moon shaped piece cut into it. the slot allows it to fit over the pitman arm and sector shaft.


And I stand corrected..I just measured my waggy arm and it is about 7" (it's hard to tell because it is a drop arm so I had to eyeball it)

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Do you remember what size sockets I'll need to pull the draglink nut and pitman nut? Standard 2 or 3-jaw gear puller to yank it, right? or should I go buy a "pitman arm puller"?


Pipe wrench, and heavy duty pitman puller.

Originally posted by jdjanda


Pipe wrench, and heavy duty pitman puller.

I second that :D


Get a $12 "HD Pitman Arm Puller" at the auto parts store.. it will come in usefull in the future :D

Pipe-wrench to get the nut off, crank the puller on nice and tight, then smack the Sh*t out of it with the BFH!!

3-lbs sledge, with 18" chunk of 1-1/8" solid stock as a "drift".... smack down from the top and it comes off really well (bitch to do though, hench the "drift")...


course clean, new, bought parts are nice......

Originally posted by tsm1mt


I wouldn't mind the slightly longer Waggy unit.. but the Dodge part is a lucky hit - my buddy's scrapping out a 70s Dodge 2wd pickup.. we had to drag it out of the "pile" and into the "dismantling line" to make room to put the '74 100 4x4 Tuesday night..

Probably get me back to stock Scout II steering ratio.. not as quick as it is now, but I guess I'll deal.

Only problem is that Scout taper.. I think the new draglink is setup to use the long TREs with the big GM taper on both ends.. and it might be in the mail already. ;)

I presume there's a 7/8" TRE with the Scout taper available.. but we were going with the long (hole for a draglink to "T" into style) TREs for extra clearance over the springs (the thought process is, if the 1.25" DOM will clear OK, then a 7/8" threaded end of a TRE will clear that much better).

But I KNOW I can get my hands on a Dodge pitman arm tonight if I want one.. could just fine a machinist to ream it out..

You know Tom the taper tool is less then $40.00 from Snap-On. Surely there has to be a Snap-On dealer in your area. Snap On p/n R121

Joe

Originally posted by jdjanda


You know Tom the taper tool is less then $40.00 from Snap-On. Surely there has to be a Snap-On dealer in your area. Snap On p/n R121

Joe

There is.. but I've been trying very hard to NOT meet him.

It'll spell DOOM to my bank account. :D

Might just be the way I'll end up going though..

Of course, $40 tool and get a junkyard (or buddy) pitman arm..

Or $52 and buy a brand new one from Jeep, no work required.

I think I'd rather have the tools though. :D

Fine. Done.

$48.20 later, and SNAP-ON is shipping a reamer to me.

Now to just get the Dodge pitman arm..

So how do I go about playin' with this reamer?

Do I really want to use a wrench and just turn it like a tap?

or can I put it in my drill press? :D

no, I'm not lazy.. just busy. :D

I would use a drill press, go slow and use lots of cutting fluid, or coolant.

ya, what Ben said... slow as the press goes.

Actually, since you are just enlarging a hole, if you have a slow 1/2" hand drill, you can use it... if your carefull. Go REALLY slow, strap the arm in a vice (horizonatly), keep it nice and strait, and use oil. Should be a piece of cake.

I made my tie-rod block this way.... took like a minute (already pre-drilled the hole)

Actually I lied. I wouldn't use the drill press I would use the Bridgeport. :D :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Ben W
Actually I lied. I wouldn't use the drill press I would use the Bridgeport. :D :flipoff2:

:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I guess I'll just have to use my not-even-good-enough-for-HF drill press..

Originally posted by tsm1mt
Fine. Done. $48.20 later, and SNAP-ON is shipping a reamer to me.


I called the homes of the local snap-off trucks and they had no stock on the R121, so I went on line to snap-off.com to buy this reamer on Tuesday and I was quoted 51.25

Originally posted by Joe V


I called the homes of the local snap-off trucks and they had no stock on the R121, so I went on line to snap-off.com to buy this reamer on Tuesday and I was quoted 51.25

Ask for a mechanics ream. I quoted the part # and my guy's response was huh. I said mechanics ream and he knew what I was looking for.

Joe

Originally posted by Joe V


I called the homes of the local snap-off trucks and they had no stock on the R121, so I went on line to snap-off.com to buy this reamer on Tuesday and I was quoted 51.25

$40 online and $8 shipping, give or take.

I'm trying to avoid meeting the local Snap-On man.. :D

Originally posted by tsm1mt
I'm trying to avoid meeting the local Snap-On man.. :D

I hear ya Tom :D:

I have one come to my door every Wednesday...but that's my own damn fault. :eek:

Not to jump in here, but ben do you remeber what the reamer part number was for the Pitman arm you fixed up for me?

I am having a shorter one reamed because it comes incontact with the tierod..

Besides that If I want to make another tierod as a spare it would be nice to have..

(especially now that I have access to a bridgeport)

Originally posted by WheelingPiazza
Not to jump in here, but ben do you remeber what the reamer part number was for the Pitman arm you fixed up for me?

I am having a shorter one reamed because it comes incontact with the tierod..

Besides that If I want to make another tierod as a spare it would be nice to have..

(especially now that I have access to a bridgeport)

WheelingP - we don't have a tapered reamer, We use a custom made tapered end mill.

Haha Well that doesnt do me much good now does it.

I may have another one for you to make then.. I will let you know

The snap on reamer everyone is talking about here should work for you - #R121

Thanks Ben..

Ok having friends that work for snapon is scary..

tool in hand either tomorrow or sunday which ever I prefer..

tsm1mt-Do you think I could get the e-mail for your friend with the EB pitman arms? I'm gonna be doing a PS conversion on my 800 next month, and I was thinking I might use an EB arm, if the arm I have now doesn't work. Having your friend's addy around then would really help.
:D

Gammons makes a reamer that everyone on this site keeps listing that is sold from AFCO RACING, part #80770. Its 1.5"/ft taper . This will set you back $119.50+ tax n shipping to my door was $128. The #40 snap on reamer is sold for cleening up a exhisting hole and not cutting a new one.
If you go to Gammons web site "http://www.gammons.com/Htmlstuff/SchedulV1.html" there is a 3/8" reamer that unless your tre is >3/4"it'll work.
Price is about $45 to your door and note the shank is 5/8"

Just finished building my own arm, tooo easy.

if i need to ream a jeep arm to fit a scout taper..... will the same reamer used to ream for chevy tie rods work??

I'm not sure. There are 2 standards 1.5"/ft and 2"/ft. I have never found an aplication requiring the 2"/ft but they sell a reamer for it so I guess someone must.
Most are 1.5". My jeep arms have always been 1.5"/ft. Ford too. I know a few guys using Chevy TREs and they have been 1.5" taper too. If you can, take the Chevy TRE and see how it fits in the jeep arm. It should go in partially (newer jeeps use puney TRE's) and not be able to rock. Depending on which TRE you get the diferance in TRE size is a lot, but the taper will be constant, you will just run the reamer deeper to enlarge the hole to the desired diameter.

I think I have it.

The Dodge I was going to rob the arm from was manual steering. Damn.

So I grabbed one from a p/s 4x4 truck.. not enough drop, I'd have to C the frame!

Figured this out around 1am this morning after prying off the stock Scout arm and draglink - heckuva time, since everything was bound up thanks to the draglink being bowed over the springs.. and being 1am and on the trailer in the street, I was *trying* to be quiet.

So I remembered I have a box from a '73 Buick Century Wagon.. found it in the pile and robbed it's arm.

Reamed it out with the SNAPON reamer..

It fits, and clears. I'm not sure how much I've gained with this whole operation, since the new 7/8" shanked TREs are bigger than the 3/4" ones I'm replacing, but on the knuckle end the TRE is much higher, clearing the spring, so that's a bonus.

On the pitman arm end, I had to grind down the top of the TRE - to the point where the cotter pin hole is now just a slot. :(

Not sure if a piece of tie-wire through the slot and around the underside will do the trick or not.

I started drilling a new cotter pin hole lower down this morning before work (after grinding!) but pushed too hard and broke the bit. D'oh. I'll get another.. packed the air-drill, too.

Only gotcha is I wonder if the nut will be too weak in that spot now.

Tempted to try and take the nut off, and put a new one on, upside down (castellated part down) and re-grind on the new nut.

First, I'll drill the new cotter pin hole though.

It's always something... sigh.

Dame Tom nothing like waiting till the last minute.

:p

Originally posted by The Fleckster
Dame Tom nothing like waiting till the last minute.

:p

Well, I was on vacation for 10 days.. got home Monday night at midnight, then was up 'till 2-3am every night getting ready to leave to go racing Friday afternoon.. not much time to get it done. :-)

It worked out alright though. The nut still touches on the frame a little, so I have a little more grinding to do.

Here's my '73 Buick Century Station Wagon pitman arm, reamed out for the Chevy TREs on both ends, 7/8"

The knuckle end uses a long shank TRE for more clearance. TriCounty arm, Chevy knuckles, XLCs SOA with 6-deg shims, Chevy front end, RS.

I had to grind a lot off the TRE on the pitman side. So much that I'm now missing the cotter-pin hole.. not real sure on what I want to do with that, if anything.

Drilling it is a real PITA - hardened steel.

I think I might put a new nut on, and use some RED Loctite, grind the nut back down, and call it a day..

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic01.jpg

Front suspension sucked down to the bump stops.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic02.jpg

TRE just clears now.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic03.jpg

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic04.jpg

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic05.jpg

This is the 7/8" diameter long-shank TRE just clearing the spring at full stuff (both sides stuffed)

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic06.jpg

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic07.jpg

And now that I had an inch or so taken out of the front driveshaft.. it's not quite bottomed out.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic09.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic10.jpg

I'm REALLY hoping this puts an end to my pogo-ing the t'case.

Clearance at-rest

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic20.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic21.jpg

Originally posted by tsm1mt
I'm REALLY hoping this puts an end to my pogo-ing the t'case.


So are we. :flipoff2: If you keep it up, the price of 727-->D20 adaptors and D20's is going to go through the roof....

OTOH, maybe I should just hang on to my stock of them and let you decrease the supply? :nuke:

Hope it works for ya Tom. Breaking the 20 off the back of the transmission is one thing, but not finishing a race because of it? That's unacceptable. :D

Originally posted by Bindernut


So are we. :flipoff2: If you keep it up, the price of 727-->D20 adaptors and D20's is going to go through the roof....

OTOH, maybe I should just hang on to my stock of them and let you decrease the supply? :nuke:

Hope it works for ya Tom. Breaking the 20 off the back of the transmission is one thing, but not finishing a race because of it? That's unacceptable. :D

Yeah, I was pretty disappointed when I managed to just barely finish ONE DAMN LAP. :flipoff:

Of course, Makkat was irritating me long before that.. here I am in my big-bad off-road "baja" racing Scout II, taking it fairly easy (not ready to thrash the rig this early in the race.. apparently there was nothing I could do about *that*) but not out for a Sunday drive..

And everytime I looked in my rearview mirror? Makkat. In his wife's "not built for this kinda abuse" low-rider locked-up truck-pull machine.

That's NOT the way it was supposed to work. :D

And at the end of the day, I got embarrassed at my own game by two (very good friends and teammates) people that aren't used to this type of racing, didn't build for this type of racing..

Because I went and broke the dang thing on the first lap.

Looking at how close the slip joint is at full-stuff *now* I can't explain WHY the t'case survived as long as it did when the DS was over an inch longer..

Dang.

When I first measured, I only stuffed the passenger side, I didn't stuff the driver's too - my "fudge factor" should've handled that much.

But I think the 6-deg shims were the big oops - brought the pinion closer to the t'case at all range of travel and made the once-just-right DS too long.

So.. now I'm armed with a shortened driveshaft (that shouldn't come out at full droop, either.. checked that, too), rear shocks re-located so they're not limiting straps, and a trussed front end.

Just over a week I'm trucking for Billings, MT. Obstacle race, then 1/2 hour Baja. I'm going to have better luck!!

I guess I really should get off my duff and find some flexible hoses to go from the m/c to the prop valve though.. that's the next weak link, I think (BTDT 2 times now). Just haven't taken the time to call someone and talk about all the adapters I need to run some Earl's braided lines there..

Tom,

How did the snap on reamer work? Would it hold up to reaming a new tapered hole? Of course, I would drill the hole first and then ream it. I used to have a reamer that worked great but it was more $$$$.

BTW: Did you use the drill press? I used a 1/2 drill and it seemed to work best if I kept the rpms up and didn't try to bite off too much as the reamer can really dig.

Originally posted by Hammerlock
Tom,

How did the snap on reamer work? Would it hold up to reaming a new tapered hole? Of course, I would drill the hole first and then ream it. I used to have a reamer that worked great but it was more $$$$.

BTW: Did you use the drill press? I used a 1/2 drill and it seemed to work best if I kept the rpms up and didn't try to bite off too much as the reamer can really dig.


The $40 SnapOn reamer worked just fine.

I used the drill press - first I "drilled" in until I hit my drill table.. so I then just ran the drill press and picked up the pitman arm and held it to the reamer until I got the desired depth.

I later used the reamer to make the shock mount. I only have a 3/4" drill bit, and I needed a 1" hole.. so I drilled 3/4, then reamed it out to 1".. seems fine.

used cutting oil and took my time on both uses. Would it hold up to making a brand new tapered hole? Probably, but I'm not sure how to gauge how well it's held up..

I'll probably use it again to ream another pitman arm and/or make some steering arms down the road.. or at least, try to..

:)

Originally posted by Bindernut


So are we. :flipoff2: If you keep it up, the price of 727-->D20 adaptors and D20's is going to go through the roof....



I agree. Tom, you are going to have to change your sig to "We Break (and Race) Farm Equipment". :flipoff2:

Originally posted by JoshC


Originally posted by Bindernut


So are we. If you keep it up, the price of 727-->D20 adaptors and D20's is going to go through the roof....


I agree. Tom, you are going to have to change your sig to "We Break (and Race) Farm Equipment". :flipoff2:

http://www.snort4x4.com/YaBBImages/tooth.gif

Well, when we finally run out of 727->D20 adapters, I guess I'll have to change over and start smashing Dodge NP205 or NP203 adapters instead. :D

Just don't want all that extra weight.. heck, it would probably mean more broken 727 cases.. :)

-Tom <-- considering the sig change.. :D

(Old breaks..)
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racing/10_7_2000/cap01.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racing/10_7_2000/cap03.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racing/10_7_2000/cap05.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/12_24_2000/snap-3-20001225-003611-1.jpeg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racing/10_7_2000/cap13.jpg