go fast straight axle

[toocoolforschoolTJ]

What are some of the keys to a good go fast straight front axle that you more experienced desert guys can enlighten me about. also some good pointers on SWB rigs would be nice too

[TRD]

Check out Goat1's Jeep...

[Lance]

Just the opposite of rock crawling - trussed and light weight. Our Jeepspeeds have Dana 30's in em. :laughing:

[Beat95YJ]

Search for Goat1, and Dusty Booger. Components can be lighter but will need trussing as Lance suggested.

[toocoolforschoolTJ]

I remember when I first saw that thing I was blown away(Goat 1's Jeep). So yeah I'll do some searching. Okay so truss the hell out of it and keep it light. I'm thinking of a set of 9"s front and rear. I already have the rear in and the stuff to make the front. Also I was thinking of going with a radius arm type three link front, does that system get a little squirly when you go from full droop to full stuff? thanks guys

[TRD]

If you want a lot of travel I wouldnt go radius arm.

I would also shoot for more anti-dive in the front than rockcrawling.

[skullver]

here is our trussed Dana30 for our jeepspeed rig:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a230/skullver/DSCN0978.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a230/skullver/DSCN0980.jpg

[strokeddodge]

Im workin on a go fast long travel strait axle, Im sure everyone has seen the threads, The nick name is "Tippy"

[tsm1mt]

Just the opposite of rock crawling - trussed and light weight. Our Jeepspeeds have Dana 30's in em. :laughing:

And in case it's not obvious to everyone - an UNDER-axle truss is stronger for the weight than an over-axle truss. On the trail, you want an over-truss to avoid bashing it on the rocks, but you pay for it in extra weight.

I have a simple under-axle truss on my front D44. Just some 1" cold-rolled but it's kept the front end from smiling for a number of years now (first, untrussed front end DID make a smile for the crowd after 3 years).

If you thought you tore out balljoints fast on your big-tired rock-crawler, you'll rethink that after you pound 'em out while racing.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

If I was building the ULTIMATE go-fast front axle, it would be a fabricated 9" housing (maybe something like Huseman's new Pro-4 housing) with a Hi-9 (http://www.truehi9.com/), Longfield CV's (http://longfieldsuperaxles.com/) and maybe a set of those lightweight Spidertrax knuckles (http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl;jsessionid=ac112b6b1f4354ad53848a414076b66af4 691f42ab97.e3eTa3aSaxmTe34Sbx8Pb34PaO1ynknvrkLOlQz Np65In0?sc=7&category=192).

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/huseman_pro4_axle.jpg

[raceanything]

No desert experience here but quite a bit of air time under my staight axles.It's amazing how light a truss can be and hold an axle together.
As tsm1mt said tension is much better for strength but kills ground clearance.
If you want the best of both worlds try a cable truss. That's right...Take a 3/8" cable loop around each knuckle "C" and under the diff. Tie it together with a good turnbuckle and tighten it after jumping a few times. You'll be amazed at how well it works, just watch that you don't dig in and slip it out of position.
It only weighs a few pounds and you can take it off for rockcrawling.

[Bubba Ray Boudreaux]

Dredged up from RDC (http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7741&page=4&highlight=straight+axle)

More RDC straight axle talk (http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4365&highlight=straight+axle)

[GoodTimes]

If I was building the ULTIMATE go-fast front axle, it would be a fabricated 9" housing (maybe something like Huseman's new Pro-4 housing) with a Hi-9 (http://www.truehi9.com/), Longfield CV's (http://longfieldsuperaxles.com/) and maybe a set of those lightweight Spidertrax knuckles (http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl;jsessionid=ac112b6b1f4354ad53848a414076b66af4 691f42ab97.e3eTa3aSaxmTe34Sbx8Pb34PaO1ynknvrkLOlQz Np65In0?sc=7&category=192).

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/huseman_pro4_axle.jpg


I don't think those knuckles would hold up.

[toocoolforschoolTJ]

a dana 30 just isn't going to cut it for the HP i'm planing on running, I'm not really thinking jeepspeed at all. I will be using a Jeep, but it is a TJ, and I'm planning on doing a lot of things for it that wouldn't be race legal. Mainly it will be a trail rig that I can do mild rock crawling with, and be able to go at least 50mph pretty much anywhere, and jump whenever I want. I'm not planing on running anything larger than 35" tires, and will probably end up stretching the WB, as to how yet I am not sure. But I do need to figure out something as far as the front suspension. I am planning on running a late 70's caddy big block with as much alum. shit as I can get on it, which I am told makes it in the ball park of the weight of a chebby SB. but there is going to be at least a 2.5 co all round and probably a set of bypasses in the rear. I don't really care how much of a bitch anything is or how to fit it cause I can fab just fine, and don't really plan on making any comprimises. Performance is number one. In fact I'd consider IFS if i knew more about fabricating a decent 4wd system, but I just don't have that kind of evperience. cheers all.

[Dusty Booger]

You could build a Dana 44 with HD shafts and joints or maybe a Ford 9/Dana 60 hybrid that could be built lighter a stock 60 front.

[toocoolforschoolTJ]

i'm either going 9" front or 44 front no 60's no 30's I am just curious about suspension tech. Apprently no radius arms and keep it light is the key. And I'm talking linked susp here as well.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

The additional kingpin/balljoint separation on a D60 is going to add a LOT of strength compared to a D30/44. If you're building a big-block and plan on driving it hard, I wouldn't recommend using anything less than D60 knuckles with whatever center-section you want to run.

[tsm1mt]

The additional kingpin/balljoint separation on a D60 is going to add a LOT of strength compared to a D30/44. If you're building a big-block and plan on driving it hard, I wouldn't recommend using anything less than D60 knuckles with whatever center-section you want to run.

Big tires + big-air results in premature balljoint failure even more frequently than big tires, lockers, and rocks.

For a big heavy truck and lots of abuse, the king-pin 60, as heavy as it is, sure sounds good.

Isn't the late model style 4x4 Chevy (TT if I'm not mistaken) running a solid 60 front?

[toocoolforschoolTJ]

good info, but a jeep TJ is hardly big, nor heavy. I think I'm going to go the 44 route and carry some spares. if shit blows apart then I'll make something work. I don't think power had much to do with ball joint failure so much as tire size and weight. also backspacing probably has a part to play I'd imagine. Like I say, the info I'm really looking for is on suspension. But since no one seems to be saying anything I'll probably just try and fit a triangulated four link in there somewhere. and put some big stiff shocks on it.

[Bubba Ray Boudreaux]

and put some big stiff shocks on it.

Try spending some $$$$ on shocks. You can't go fast unless the suspension is working and putting some crap $50 shocks is just gonna break stuff cause they'll fade within a couple of minutes....................

[tsm1mt]

good info, but a jeep TJ is hardly big, nor heavy. I think I'm going to go the 44 route and carry some spares. if shit blows apart then I'll make something work. I don't think power had much to do with ball joint failure so much as tire size and weight. also backspacing probably has a part to play I'd imagine. Like I say, the info I'm really looking for is on suspension. But since no one seems to be saying anything I'll probably just try and fit a triangulated four link in there somewhere. and put some big stiff shocks on it.

4-link or radius arm would be fine, though a trailing setup (4-link mounted to the frame end) would be best for the suspension, but suck for the driveshaft. I think Big Oly ran something like this. Typical RA setup makes the axle move forward and up on bump, and you rally want it to go up and back, but to pull that off, your radius arm / 4-link mounts would be very low, putting the RA parallel with the ground at ride height (more or less).

Run good shocks, tuneable. If you have the coin, run bypasses - you can firm up the valving as it gets closer to full bump while maintaining a decent ride quality mid-stroke. Use air-bumps to aggressively add spring rate at the end of the travel.

Power won't kill the ball joints, but if you're on the gas and land, it'll kill axle shafts pretty easily.

The landings are what waste my balljoints. :D

[raceanything]

I ran 44s front and rear for 6 years of Pro Arena (glorified tough truck) racing. ~40 events per year, 15 -20 jumps per event, some 12-14 feet under the truck at times. Jeep was 3025 lbs. leaf sprung, 14" travel, 2 white shocks per corner. We often landed on the gas with the wheels turned to start the next turn. Even landed on the crush cars a few times.
In that amount of timeo I recall: 1 ball joint, 3-4 front axles, 1 rear axle, two cracked rims and one housing breaking. Not bad. I ran 30" tires.

[AlumCJ]

back up...what about shocks? whats the go fast setup that can be put in a regular old 3200 lb 2 seat crawler? packaging bypasses could be tough with the tall tires and rear steer...think coil overs and airbumps is best? seems to me it would have to be better than the airshocks.

with the airshocks, i can't "plane" out on rough terrain...hurts too bad gettin there:D ...maybe some tuning would be best...or will my improvements only be marginal...

walker 2" x 14's by the way.

[mustange70]

Quick question as this has me confused, how is the under axle tuss stronger than the over axle truss? As steel is way strogner in compression then tension (i know as i've done tension tests and compression test in class), if someone wouln't mind explaining that would be great.

[tsm1mt]

Quick question as this has me confused, how is the under axle tuss stronger than the over axle truss? As steel is way strogner in compression then tension (i know as i've done tension tests and compression test in class), if someone wouln't mind explaining that would be great.

In compression, you have the tendency to want to buckle and fail.

In tension, no buckling possible.

It's not like we're talking about a rigid column in a skyscraper.


It's hard for the truss to fail under-axle, but easy over-axle, so you have to add more strength to compensate for the buckling tendency, thereby adding weight.

Pound for pound, the under axle is stronger.

[TeenyCAR]

I'm trying my hand at what you are talking about.
Here's what I did on the rear.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/TeenyCAR/YJ%20Wrangler/Picture046.jpg
My front end.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/TeenyCAR/YJ%20Wrangler/Picture-1.jpg
Trying to keep it low with lots of uptravel.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/TeenyCAR/YJ%20Wrangler/Picture003-1.jpg
I'm running 2.5X14 Remote reservoir King Coilovers. I'm running 104" wheelbase which sucks but I still have to have it street legal. I hope it will be at least some fun for dunes, desert, and mild wheelin'.

[raceanything]

I think the key words are "in class"
Time to get out in the real world sony boy

[foley]

Quick question as this has me confused, how is the under axle tuss stronger than the over axle truss? As steel is way strogner in compression then tension (i know as i've done tension tests and compression test in class), if someone wouln't mind explaining that would be great.

Wait till next year, you'll have another class called "statics" and then it'll all make sense

[raceanything]

Looks good teeny car. All the way out to the flanges, and supporting the tops of the "C"s. I also like the panhard mount way out by the wheel. In back make sure that crossmember on the frame is way strong and triangulated back to the frame where the lower bars mount. They take alot of force.

[TeenyCAR]

Here's the cross member.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/TeenyCAR/YJ%20Wrangler/Picture043.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/TeenyCAR/YJ%20Wrangler/Picture050.jpg
I plated the inside frame rails with 3/16 and then welded the crossmember to it. I would think it would be enough.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Wait till next year, you'll have another class called "statics" and then it'll all make sense

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

SMACK! :D

[mustange70]

yeah thats what i was thinking, the buckling of the truss, thanks

[raceanything]

Oh ya, that looks strong enough. Might catch a little mud, sand and grease but it'll hold. looks nice too.

[wes8517]

bringin this back to the top......

building an XJ for trail/crawlin/as well as high speed use. putting a 9" from an early bronco in the rear and most likely a 44 from an early bronco or waggy in front. since its getting used on the trail and in the rocks, would trussing similar to TeenyCar's be stout enough in you guys opinions???? for now it wont see too much high speed time, so im wondering if i can sacrifice the under axle truss for ground clearance and go with the over axle truss and still be strong enough. any opinions are welcome.

wes

[strokeddodge]

that jeep looks kick ass... is there any more pics?

[Bigburlynakedguy]

Here is our front end.


http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o301/ScottP66CJ/Jeepspeed%20Build/100_1357.jpg

It's a HP 44, ARB, chromo and CTM's. We have to run it so might as well run it hard.

[raceanything]

bringin this back to the top......

building an XJ for trail/crawlin/as well as high speed use. putting a 9" from an early bronco in the rear and most likely a 44 from an early bronco or waggy in front. since its getting used on the trail and in the rocks, would trussing similar to TeenyCar's be stout enough in you guys opinions???? for now it wont see too much high speed time, so im wondering if i can sacrifice the under axle truss for ground clearance and go with the over axle truss and still be strong enough. any opinions are welcome.

wes

You can go over and have enough strength it just needs to be a little more stout to get the same strength. So it'll be a little heavier.

[rocknbronco]

that looks slick:D

[NRT_Chris]

I think shaving the bottom of the rear housing may be a bad idea. Its going to cut down the amount of gear oil in the housing. This could cause your rearend to over heat

[TeenyCAR]

You can't shave enough out of the bottom rear center section to make a big enough difference in heat.

[Brutpwr]

Solid axles can work... There are two CORR Pro 4 trucks that I have seen with solid axles so if your at the races check them out. We race Pro 2 but can attest to blowing thru ball joints...sometimes in a single race! There are differences in the different brands. Sometimes even the super HD name brands lately have not been as good as our standard standby ball joints we prefer from Napa! Also once you start really pounding you will have a good chance of snapping off spindles if you jump hard enough and bottom out.

Jason :)

[NRT_Chris]

You can't shave enough out of the bottom rear center section to make a big enough difference in heat.

Wrong! Good luck with that though.

[TeenyCAR]

The most you gain shaving a 9 inch is 1/2 inch with the diff fairly level and that's being generous. Unless you are shaving the back end you're not loosing enough volume to matter. I think I should know having built a fair number of 9 inches for people using them on daily driver's/commuters.

[Flexy Flatty]

The most you gain shaving a 9 inch is 1/2 inch with the diff fairly level and that's being generous. Unless you are shaving the back end you're not loosing enough volume to matter. I think I should know having built a fair number of 9 inches for people using them on daily driver's/commuters.
And with that we can double our smack count for this thread.

[Flexy Flatty]

Oh yeah, and since when is steel appreciably weaker in tension than compression?

[NRT_Chris]

The most you gain shaving a 9 inch is 1/2 inch with the diff fairly level and that's being generous. Unless you are shaving the back end you're not loosing enough volume to matter. I think I should know having built a fair number of 9 inches for people using them on daily driver's/commuters.


Well there is a reason that nobody in the " go fast " axle industry shaves the bottom like that Heat will be a issue in a racing situation. maybe ( big maybe) not in a DD jeep. I have it on pretty good athority form the people that I work for that its not a good idea. They have been building 9 inch rears for about 50 years...:shaking:

[TeenyCAR]

People you work for? So you've never actually shaved a housing and driven it around for years as a daily driver without having heating issues? Have you looked at fabricated housings for the 9"? They have better clearance than a "stock" 9 inch housing. You would effectively have to shave a stock 9 inch housing to equal the clearance of a fabricated housing. Even the Chrisman housings are fabricated for clearance. Tell you what, when you move up in the industry from sweeping floors, taking out the trash, answering phones, or whatever you do and get some real experience with building axles then share, otherwise don't shake your head at me thinking your have some sort of knowledge on the topic when you obviously don't build axles or have any personal experience with running a shaved housing.

Well there is a reason that nobody in the " go fast " axle industry shaves the bottom like that Heat will be a issue in a racing situation. maybe ( big maybe) not in a DD jeep. I have it on pretty good athority form the people that I work for that its not a good idea. They have been building 9 inch rears for about 50 years...:shaking:

[NRT_Chris]

just trying to help you avoid a problem later on, no need to get hurt over it. the fabricated housings you are talking about all have a higher ground clearance built into them, but they are also taking into account the oil level and have designed with those certain parameters in mind with a wider center section. when you cut the housing center like that and try and run the correct amount of oil in the housing (at least 3 qts.) you run into the problem of oil sitting inside the tubes. when oil sits inside the tubes, it runs against the seal. oil against the seal constantly=bad idea. you are going to have leaking problems and or heat problems either now or down the road.

this might be fine for daily driving, but 'going fast' puts much more strain on your bearings and gears and you need all the help you can get. when the gears and bearings go out, just gimme a call ;)

[CA_YJ]

My go fast spidertrax rear...
http://moss-pultz.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7714&g2_serialNumber=1

building a spidertrax front with their plate knuckles...

[wes8517]

one more question......

im looking at doing a rear axle truss like teenycars from above, except just over the top, not across the back, heres a pic for reference.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/TeenyCAR/YJ%20Wrangler/Picture046.jpg

but im running leaves in the rear for now, so has anyone done a truss like this, all the way to the ends of the tubes, but then cut and added a piece of channel or some plate to make a leaf perch built in? i know its gonna be a lil more lift this way, but im just tryin to get the truss to make the axle stout enough for a cherokee and some possible high speed fun without going under the axle, so i think going to the end of the tubes is much more desirable. heres a crude MS paint drawing......
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/479592/fullsize/picture046.jpg


thoughts????????

[foley]

I'd put them on top of the truss completely, so you can cut them off later when you go to a link suspension.

Also, make sure that they're plenty long and gussetted in the fore-aft dimension, especially on a cherokee with its offset center pin leaf springs. You want to make sure the perch does not flex when the axle tries to wrap up.

[blk87K5]

Wes, why not truss the 9 on the back side? You wouldnt be adding any lift that way, and you could french the holes in for your U bolts on the back side. Dimple all the sides, TIG it up, and you would have an awesome looking rear end for your Cherokee that would stand all of the abuse you could throw at it.

[wes8517]

I'd put them on top of the truss completely, so you can cut them off later when you go to a link suspension.

Also, make sure that they're plenty long and gussetted in the fore-aft dimension, especially on a cherokee with its offset center pin leaf springs. You want to make sure the perch does not flex when the axle tries to wrap up.
good idea, i got a buddy with a CNC plasma table, so i can have him cut some stout brakets for it.....didnt really think about putting them completely on top

bryan, i just think that the forces are going to be more the other direction and that an over the axle truss would be more beneficial, and if i bend it then ill get another housing and do both the back and the top.......just dont think for what is around here that ill need that much trussing on it.

wes

[TeenyCAR]

A lot of desert race trucks don't run the truss all the way out to the ends.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o44/erikcameron/Fabrication/mattsride_012.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o44/erikcameron/Fabrication/s23.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o44/erikcameron/Fabrication/19.jpg

[NRT_Chris]

A lot of desert race trucks don't run the truss all the way out to the ends.



Desert race trucks dont use the stock gas tank either

The fabricated housing is using a much bigger tube (probably a 4" with at least .250 wall) and the back truss is helping take the stress. That top truss in the bottom pictures isnt really doing much besides adding weight. The one on the top is just changing the breaking point from where the tube inserts into the housing out to where the truss ends.

[blk87K5]

bryan, i just think that the forces are going to be more the other direction and that an over the axle truss would be more beneficial, and if i bend it then ill get another housing and do both the back and the top.......just dont think for what is around here that ill need that much trussing on it.

wes


I agree 100%. Either truss would be fine for your app., it wont be going fast enough to bend the housing either way. I was looking at it from the stand point of which would be easier to integrate into your particular use...not which is stronger.

[wes8517]

I agree 100%. Either truss would be fine for your app., it wont be going fast enough to bend the housing either way. I was looking at it from the stand point of which would be easier to integrate into your particular use...not which is stronger.
oh ok, gotcha, i think i can make somethin plenty stout with the over axle truss, and if it breaks then ill just link it with coils til i can afford the coilovers

wes

[TeenyCAR]

Everyone on the internet is an expert! hahaha I guess Geiser Bros. don't know what it takes to build a strong rear end. Get off this board you idiot!
:shaking:

[Lil' Rich]

Everyone on the internet is an expert! hahaha I guess Geiser Bros. don't know shit about what it takes to build a strong rear end. Get off this board you idiot!
:shaking:

Yeah I have seen housing bend while vehicles were only going a few miles an hour. Internet experts are funny...

[TotalImmortal]

A lot of desert race trucks don't run the truss all the way out to the ends.


http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o44/erikcameron/Fabrication/19.jpg


fyi- geiser did not build that housing. it is a chrisman (they all cme trussed like that)

[TeenyCAR]

My thinking was that geiser bros., who build a lot of trophy trucks and prerunners, wouldn't use a housing that couldn't take the punishment. But hey, I've been wrong before, maybe NRT is right, they just thought it looked cool and maybe that rear end wasn't heavy enough so they put a couple of trusses on it to add more weight! hahahaha Common' homie, think about what you're saying.
:D

[NRT_Chris]

My thinking was that geiser bros., who build a lot of trophy trucks and prerunners, wouldn't use a housing that couldn't take the punishment. But hey, I've been wrong before, maybe NRT is right, they just thought it looked cool and maybe that rear end wasn't heavy enough so they put a couple of trusses on it to add more weight! hahahaha Common' homie, think about what you're saying.
:D



I was refering to the top pic. I am very aware of who Geiser bros is. You said "Race Trucks" in your post. The top pic has a stock gas tank! Its Not a Race Truck. The Top truss on that pic looks like a after thought to me. If the Geise Bro did infact built that housing it looks like it was built for a linked truck originaly.

Here is a challange for you... Bring that " go fast " wrangler out to any Jeespeed race. If you can beat me I will never post on any of your threads again. If I win you calm down and try and have a conversation with someone who dosnt agree with with out taking personal attacks!

[Lil' Rich]

I was refering to the top pic. I am very aware of who Geiser bros is. You said "Race Trucks" in your post. The top pic has a stock gas tank! Its Not a Race Truck. The Top truss on that pic looks like a after thought to me. If the Geise Bro did infact built that housing it looks like it was built for a linked truck originaly.

Here is a challange for you... Bring that " go fast " wrangler out to any Jeespeed race. If you can beat me I will never post on any of your threads again. If I win you calm down and try and have a conversation with someone who dosnt agree with with out taking personal attacks!


OOOHHHHH SNAP! (End Smart Ass) I see a Pirate Challenge about to happen....:D Can I watch? It would be pretty fun see.

BTW, just to clear it up, I don't know either parties, just think this would be a fun thing to do...

[scraprock]

OOOHHHHH SNAP! (End Smart Ass) I see a Pirate Challenge about to happen....:D Can I watch? It would be pretty fun see.

BTW, just to clear it up, I don't know either parties, just think this would be a fun thing to do...


Socal pirate desert race!!! Weekend wheeling in JV with a morning race event?!?!:grinpimp: I need more excuses to go there (yet I still dont ever go)

[TeenyCAR]

Does a race truck mean T.T.? Don't they race stock vehicles? Aren't there classes for stock mini and fullsize vehicles? Does the world of desert racing consist only of class 1 and trophy trucks? I'm not taking it as a personal attack but your comments are rediculous. The only reason for the truss is weight? Are you serious? What you obviously fail to see is the difference between building and racing. Do you think that by racing, your comments about building are valid? Are the two one in the same? Once the jeep is finished I'd be more than happy to take it to JV since that's what I'm building it for (having fun in the desert and rockcrawling), but racing doesn't have anything to do with the building advice that you are giving or throwing out! The picture taken of the first one was in the build process so I'm sure it isn't finished as far as the gas tank goes. A lot of people who race vehicles don't know shit about building them, that's why they have other people build them. I'm just asking you to think through what you are saying before you post it up here as if you had true experience with building vehicles. They don't put trusses on, that don't go all the way out to the end, for the sole reason of looks or weight. Like it or not it does strengthen the housing. I understand the top of the class uses rear ends with bigger tubes and yes that adds strength, but so does the truss. That's all I'm getting at. I'm not posting examples of my own crap, other than for my own questions, but of well known builders in the "go fast" industry. I'd like to think that at least they know what they are doing. You see what I build, what do you build? I've personally built over a dozen 9 inch axles. If you knew how little tube is going into that center section and how little weld surface area that is at the center section and how much leverage is on it and still think that the upper and lower truss of the bottom pic isn't doing anything but adding weight then you don't know what the hell you are talking about when it comes to rear ends. Plain and simple. I don't care if you are the fastest jeep speed racer out there, you still don't understand what is going on with that rear end.

[NRT_Chris]

Does a race truck mean T.T.? Don't they race stock vehicles? Aren't there classes for stock mini and fullsize vehicles? Does the world of desert racing consist only of class 1 and trophy trucks? I'm not taking it as a personal attack but your comments are rediculous. The only reason for the truss is weight? Are you serious? What you obviously fail to see is the difference between building and racing. Do you think that by racing, your comments about building are valid? Are the two one in the same? Once the jeep is finished I'd be more than happy to take it to JV since that's what I'm building it for, but racing doesn't have anything to do with the building advice that you are giving or throwing out! The picture taken of the first one was in the build process so I'm sure it isn't finished as far as the gas tank goes. A lot of people who race vehicles don't know shit about building them, that's why they have other people build them. I'm just asking you to think through what you are saying before you post it up here as if you had true experience with building vehicles. They don't put trusses on, that don't go all the way out to the end, for the sole reason of looks or weight. Like it or not it does strengthen the housing. I understand the top of the class uses rear ends with bigger tubes and yes that adds strength, but so does the truss. That's all I'm getting at. I'm not posting examples of my own crap, other than for my own questions, but of well known builders in the "go fast" industry. I'd like to think that at least they know what they are doing. You see what I build, what do you build? I've personally built over a dozen 9 inch axles. If you knew how little tube is going into that center section and how little weld surface area that is at the center section and how much leverage is on it and still think that the upper and lower truss of the bottom pic isn't doing anything but adding weight then you don't know what the hell you are talking about when it comes to rear ends. Plain and simple.

You are showing what you know about desert racing. Im not saying that i know all there is to know about racing but before you comment at least know the basics! There is not one class or race promoter that will allow a stock gas tank!! All trucks fallow strick basic safty guide lines like a fule cell is a must!! Even class11 stock VW bug must have a cell! I never said that the only reason is weight. you should go back and reread all the posts. "

Bottom line put up or shut up!! My challange stands!!

[TeenyCAR]

Which is why I said it probably wasn't finished yet. If you bothered to look at my build you'd see that I don't qualify for any jeep speed class, but if you're wanting to go out to JV and do some kind of a race for what it is set up for then I'd be happy to. Since you have not posted pics of rear ends you have built, I'll assume that my assumption that your just a web fabricator to be true. I'm done, since you have no clue about building and axle. Maybe you should go talk with the guys who built your dana 30 axle and get a little better idea of the theory behind it.

You are showig what you know about desert racing. Im not saying that i know all there is to know about racing but before you comment at least know the basics! There is not one class or race promoter that will allow a stock gas tank!! All trucks fallow strick basic safty guide lines like a fule cell is a must!! Even class11 stock VW bug must have a cell! I never said that the only reason is weight. you should go back and reread all the posts. "

Bottom line put up or shut up!! My challange stands!!

[TotalImmortal]

A lot of desert race trucks don't run the truss all the way out to the ends.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o44/erikcameron/Fabrication/mattsride_012.jpg

this rear end was built by matt walwrath. it is an explorer. its a prerunner, not a race truck.


AND

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o44/erikcameron/Fabrication/19.jpg

by the looks of the trailing arms i would say that stewarts built this truck, so i dunno how geiser came into the discussion

[NRT_Chris]

Geiser was brought up by Teeny to try and add validity to his rants..

[TotalImmortal]

should i be worried about our rear end then? the trussing doesnt go all the way to the hubs oh no!!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b68/brice619/TT/DSC_3579WTMK.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b68/brice619/TT/ldc58a_std.jpg

[TeenyCAR]

I posted the first one because it had leaf springs like the guy who asked the original question as I thought it might give a better idea than a linked rear. Here a geiser bros. pic I pulled from their web site rather than from what a friend sent me.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/TeenyCAR/Voudouri20TT2008060620013.jpg
Back to original point, the top truss doesn't HAVE to go all the way to the ends of the axle. My opinion is that is is stronger to have it extend all the way out (all else being equal). I should have perhaps clarified for the example pics and made sure where they came from. Sorry.

[TotalImmortal]

I posted the first one because it had leaf springs like the guy who asked the original question as I thought it might give a better idea than a linked rear. Here a geiser bros. pic I pulled from their web site rather than from what a friend sent me.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/TeenyCAR/Voudouri20TT2008060620013.jpg
Back to original point, the top truss doesn't HAVE to go all the way to the ends of the axle. My opinion is that is is stronger to have it extend all the way out (all else being equal). I should have perhaps clarified for the example pics and made sure where they came from. Sorry.


geiser bros knows their shit but that is still a rear end built/trussed by chrisman lol

[TeenyCAR]

Once again I know, but why would a top company use an axle that needless weighs more with the trusses the way they are placed? If a truss that doesn't go all the way out to the ends does little more just add weight (NRT's words) then why would they want it on there if the point is to have a strong but lightweight axle? Why would I see a problem with your axle? I never said you had to have it go out to the ends, or was that directed at NRT?

[TotalImmortal]

it wasnt directed at anybody. there was some confusion on who/why they built rearends this way and i responded. there are plenty of chrisman housings out there that have seen more race miles on them than minutes i have been born. maybe my responses were unnecessary....o well:flipoff2:

[NRT_Chris]

I never said on a fab housing it was needed, but on a stock 9" It would be a good idea. These pics show what i said in the first place! Its not a good idea to shave the complete bottom off a Stock housing! Thats how this whole thing started. IMORTAL : how much gear oil are you using in your housing?? ill bett its over three qts.

[TotalImmortal]

I never said on a fab housing it was needed, but on a stock 9" It would be a good idea. These pics show what i said in the first place! Its not a good idea to shave the complete bottom off a Stock housing! Thats how this whole thing started. IMORTAL : how much gear oil are you using in your housing?? ill bett its over three qts.

im not sure. i'll say A LOT haha

[TeenyCAR]

So the cup of fluid lost in shaving the bottom is enough to overheat the diff? Why not just run oil seals in the center section and put the lost fluid back in? All I know is, if I can make a 3 quart flipped upside down 9 inch third member live in the short "go fast" sections we have in JV then I'm not seeing how it would burn up running the normal way with a slight fluid loss due to shaving which could be made up for by putting a little more fluid in. I think there is a also a difference between going out for a few hours running around in the desert and doing the Baja 1000 or DaKar Rally no? They live in street trucks doing 200 mile round trips 4 days a week at freeway speeds so in my mind that's good enough. I guess we'll just disagree on the whole shaving thing and leave it at that.

[NRT_Chris]

So the cup of fluid lost in shaving the bottom is enough to overheat the diff? Why not just run oil seals in the center section and put the lost fluid back in? All I know is, if I can make a 3 quart flipped upside down 9 inch third member live in the short "go fast" sections we have in JV then I'm not seeing how it would burn up running the normal way with a slight fluid loss due to shaving which could be made up for by putting a little more fluid in. I think there is a also a difference between going out for a few hours running around in the desert and doing the Baja 1000 or DaKar Rally no? They live in street trucks doing 200 mile round trips 4 days a week at freeway speeds so in my mind that's good enough. I guess we'll just disagree on the whole shaving thing and leave it at that.

The key to your satement is " short go fast ".... We can agree to disagree thats fine. I never thought i would change your mind any how, But my offer still stands. lucerne is my favorite track. Get that thing going and lets race!:p


P.S. my offer is for you only! I would never go against The Thing!!!

[TeenyCAR]

I'll let you know when it is done. I would like to know where all the good places to run are. What size tires are you running? I may need to get a set of 35's to optimize the power.

[TotalImmortal]

The key to your satement is " short go fast ".... We can agree to disagree thats fine. I never thought i would change your mind any how, But my offer still stands. lucerne is my favorite track. Get that thing going and lets race!:p


P.S. my offer is for you only! I would never go against The Thing!!!

psh....you should have said lets do it this weekend! you would have won for sure!! (we're missing a couple key components that make the car start and move right now:flipoff2: )

[NRT_Chris]

I'll let you know when it is done. I would like to know where all the good places to run are. What size tires are you running? I may need to get a set of 35's to optimize the power.


class rules say we need to run a 33x10.5 15" or 16" inch or a 33x12.5....

Im leaving for Parker after work. I have to try and stay out of Robbys way!!

[JR]

I'll let you know when it is done. I would like to know where all the good places to run are. What size tires are you running? I may need to get a set of 35's to optimize the power.

Your rhetoric is pathetic. :flipoff2: