Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week

The subject for the week is Shade Tree Custom Fabrication.

We're going to discuss everything from welding techinques to design strategy to building mockups of tube items using conduit, and everything between.

Yeah, it's a broad topic, but this info can be generalized to allow you to build everything from a bumper based tire rack to a custom frame.

cool topic:D . here is a question..what is a good metal to use for a custom flat dash? aluminum? i want it to be nice, but not mirror-shiny. thanks!



- jake

I would not use aluminum, unless you want a lot of hassle. It will cause the steel underneath it to rust where it contacts the aluminum. I'd run a stainless steel.

Ben.

Originally posted by JeeperJake
cool topic:D . here is a question..what is a good metal to use for a custom flat dash? aluminum? i want it to be nice, but not mirror-shiny. thanks!



- jake

Real Jeeps already have a flat dash:flipoff2:

If you use AL, you can polish it to the desired *bling, bling quotient* this way.

Start with 600 grit sand paper..sand surface, jump to 800, sand, jump to 1000, then to 1200, then steel wool, then buffing compound applied with a buffing wheel, then wax. If you do all that you will have a mirror finish. Stop when ever you think it is good enough.

There may be other ways of polishing, but thats how we did the CR frames, and the ZX's.

I want to see ghetto engine stands stand pics. I built a little cart for $12 to hold the 4.3, but I think my design sucks.

I know engine stands are cheap, but I have more torn down engines than stands right now:flipoff2:

well, then i guess stainless is the way to go. so what do you think? 1/8" stainless?


- jake

Well if this isn't shade tree....I don't know what is:flipoff2:

Sorry but I"m too cheep to post pics here:rasta: Actually I"m just too poor. But here's the link to some fabbin I have done.

http://community.webshots.com/user/jeeprat2001

Be careful with using a shiny dash. Think about at night in the summer with the top off or during the day in the sun. BLINDING! I justed used regular sheat metal. Mine isn't flat, but the stuff if really easy to use.

Erin

If you use s.s. it will blind you in the sun. You can use aluminum and sand it then when you install it put rubber or something similar between the two metals and it wont corrode.

I want to fab up some gas tanks for my trail rig. What thickness Aluminum should I use:question: I want them to be damage resistant, but also need to save as much weight and $ as possible. I heard that if its a marine application the reguirement is 1/4" but that seems heavy to me. I was thinking about 3/16" for the whole tank and having an additional 3/16" skidplate on the bottom and ends. I have a bunch of old 3/16 diamond plate laying around the shop, that was used for deck plate on an old warf. Its no good for the tank (small cracks) but it would be fine for a skid plate I think.

I think that 1/8 is too heavy for a dash. Maybe .062?

Aluminum is fine for a dash...Just put some clear silicon behind it so that you don't have the two metal touching.;)

However, whether you use SS, Al, or even Sheet metal..Paint that Sum bitch...Shiny dashes will blind you and they are :rainbow:

For a gas tank, I would either use 1/8" with internal braces or 3/16" and jut ad baffles in. I think that 1/8" might bow once the weight is added in. The baffles can double as braces though.

As far as shadetree fabrication...that pretty much describes my entire Scout...er...uh, thing. What do you want to know?:D

I have built my entire Jeep in dirt fields, hotel parking lots, and freinds driveways for 5 years. I am totaly lost when someone is nice enough to loan me a vehicle hoist. Im used to my parts laying on the ground next to me. my tools laying on my chest, and hot sparks from a hand grinder showering down on me.
I used a 40' crane in a freinds back yard as my cherry picker, and a Bobcat to roll the donor vehicle into position of pulling parts. Ive been kicked out of supermarket parking lots for swapping axles, and shut down the main breaker of the Rocklin Comfort Suites trying to weld with one of their maintenance outlets........ So......what do you wanna know.

Hint: The trick is to get started, and start solving problems as you go,...and its good, to finish before it starts to rain(or snow).

you need to think way ahead, so you dont have to cut off the stuff you just welded on next week. if you have other mods planned try to plan the mods your doing now to incorperate the future mods.

WELDING, work with someone who knows how to and will point out when you fawked up and tell you why.

CHOP SAW, buy one and never look back. this thing saves so much time. from 2x4 box to 1" strap. also does 45 deg. cuts easy.

TUBE BENDING, i dont have a bender and have never used one, but i built my own cage. i had a freind take my pattern(i used soft copper tube for the shape) and then he bent me some hoops, used my chop saw to fish mouth the end(2-45 deg. cuts) and then welded(tack it first) it all together.

TIPS, measure measure measure! i didnt and it shows. when you tack weld it in place measure it again.:beer:

Take your whole Jeep into account when designing and measuring. There is often something non-related that will get in the way of what ever you are doing. For this reason, I usually start out with a through plan, and go at it. Work around the little problems as they arise, and modify my design as needed.

I usually tack weld everyting in place, double check for fit, then finish welding. Most important thing is to remember that nothing is permanent...thats what torches are for :smokin:

Well, just a quickie...

don't buy cheap tools...you will *almost* always regret it.

oh, and welding is like painting.....it's all in the prepwork.

one last one....don't fill your tiny garage with so many parts and tools you are forced to do everything out in your gravel driveway.....makes it REALLY hard when you keep dropping nuts and washers!

(but at least it's my driveway H8 :p )

Hmmm.... I always enjoy working with rebar to mock up brackets and such... here is a pic of my rear disc swap where I'm mocking up some caliper brackets using some rebar... working out great.

http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~junger/jeep/reardisc/reardisc4.jpg


-Josh

Originally posted by BillaVista


(but at least it's my driveway H8 :p )


Great now I now where I can come and work if I get a construction project up in your neck of the woods:eek:


A few more things for you would be shade Tree Mechanics.

Make sure you have a good power source,(preferably one that isnt running the refrigerator, TV,microwave, and every light in the house). Poor power sources are very hard on tools, and almost impossible to weld with a 110V welder, and get any kind of penetration.

Have a very good heavy duty power cord,(only as long as you absolutely need) More length in a power cord, makes it less effective to run power tools.

Run your welder as close to the power source as possible, and try to use a dedicated circuit.

Have a couple of lights handy(run them on their own extension cord from an other source than the power tools if possible).

Keep tarps handy, they are better than lying on gravel, and they are very important when the weather roll in.

Keep a broom handy and sweep up the area your working in occasionaly, (itll keep metal shavings out of your back).

Magnetic trays are very handy.

Youll go through more shop towels than if you were in a nice clean shop,...start collecting old shirts, socks, etc.

Build a reciever hitch vice mount. This can be one of the most handy tools you can have without a shop bench to go to.
(I also have a receiver hitch drill press mount)(I also have receiver tubes at the front rear and both sides of my rig,...very handy, on and off the trail).

Disconnect your ground cable from your battery before you start, it is very rare that you will hurt a computer, but its easy to short something out when your grinding drilling and torching on a rig while your lying on your back in a dust storm.

A welding jacket can be a real flesh saver, nothing worse than going to dinner afterwards when you cant even scrub off the smell of burnt flesh.

A welding jacket can be a real flesh saver, nothing worse than going to dinner afterwards when you cant even scrub off the smell of burnt flesh.

That's funny...I was trying to figure out how I could bottle that smell and wear it all the time:D

Keep tarps handy, they are better than lying on gravel, and they are very important when the weather roll in.

changed from 6 lug to 8 lug in the snow with a tarp draped over the hood of my heep. tarps is good!;)

I think about Jeff (H8) when I work in my heated garage. :D
I've seen his work though and that removes any excuses for me doing a sloppy job.
I usually eat,drink and sleep the mod I'm going to make, do up drawings and notes and think about how the mod will tie into the overall design.
Might sound strange, but then I "picture" it being finished and then just go about doing it.
I always need to make small changes as I go, but I always go back to step one and think about how it will tie in.
If you cover all the bases first, you won't run into trouble later.
With a good imagination and the right tools, you'll be surprised what you can do.

i agree with the earlier post. get good tools. you will thank yourself in the long run.

now for the shade tree fabrication, here are some tools that i use.

*4 1/2" angel grinder. man these things are life savers. you can do so much with them. shape, form, cut, etc. plus you cna add a wire wheel to the end and use it to clean too!!

*chop saw. these are almost a must. you can get by without one but once you have one you will thank yourself.

*welder. all i have is a cracker box 225amp arc welder. once you learn how to stick it'll work for naything except thin sheet metal. i got mine at sam's for $200 new and it works great.

*drill. get a good one so it'll last.

*torch. all i have is one of the mini bottle sets like you can get from tractor supply. it works but bigger bottles would be nice for big jobs (they run out kinda fast).

* a properly mounted vice. this makes holding barckets you are cutting, grinding, drilling, etc. easier.

i think this is a good start. i have an air compressor, tube bender and some more tools but the ones i have listed is a good start. i believe h8monday said it earlier just start a project and see where it takes you. i really enjoy building my own parts. it is alot cheaper and fun to do. the more you do it the better you'll get.

Invest in a Good Tap and Die set, it will come in handy, normally at 2am the night before a big run when you jsut striped something out and only have a 1/2 bolt to fit into a 7/16th hole.

Oh yeah a good drill set too.

1/4" mild steel can and will be used for anything on my jeep. 3/16th will not sufice and that extra 1/16th helps :D, no that 1/16th does not weight enough to make a difference (competition excluded)

1/8th inch is not thick enought for rocker panel protection, nor should it be made out of AL

Under standing the galvanic properties will save you from causing corrosion.

DO NOT weld Stainless, unles you know what you are doing, it will F' it up and essentially makes it not be all stainless...


ANY mod is possible, with a little time, alot of beer and a welder...

The most used tool in my shop besides the welder and 4 1/2" grinder has got to be the portaband saw. Got a chop saw sitting there and never touch the thing, Keep in mind that this is the shop at work, so I also have a horizontal bandsaw to use, but its the portaband 9 times outa 10 that I reach for. It cuts fast, is quiet, and with practice, accurate as hell. Another good tip, if your thinking about fabbing somethign out of aluminum, get the right grinding/cutoff wheel for it, schmuck at work used a steel wheel on aluminum, and when it loaded up, it self distructed, got him a couple stitches.

why does everyone hate shiny dashes? I have an aluminum diamond plate dash, and its very shiny, I like the looks, and the only time the refelectivness is noticed is when a car is passing you on the sides at night with no doors, it just shines back, but not into your eyes or anything.

ok, basic question time:

what kind of measuring tapes is everyone using? Every one I've owned seems to have a really loose hanger/tooth at the front, and the paint comes off the markings fast making accurate measurements about as close as eyeballing it. Is there a really good quality measuring tape out there somewhere? Sears sure doesn't have it.

the loose clip on the end of a tape measure is so that you get the same measurement whether you are using it to hook over the end of something or just pushing up against something. The slop should be approximately the same as the thickness of the hook.

what kind of measuring tapes is everyone using?

PM me and i'll hook you up with a cool magnetic tip tape i sell at work. the tip will stick to whatever metal your working with and you can hang the whole 25' of tape out and it won't slip off.:D

dash material: 14ga Stainless steel (S/S). to get rid of the polish, and still have a good finish: put a new piece of 120 grit sandpaper in a Dual-Action sander and go over the whole dash until it has a unifom finish. this will give you dash a dull-swirly scratched up finish that will hide future scratches and not be as shiny. it really does look nice!

i hate chopsaws! they are noisey, and don't cut square. i prefer to cut everything critical with my 4.5" milwaukee grinder with a 5" x 0.040 thick cut-wheel. cut wheels for S/S last longer and are tougher, but cost more than wheels for Carbon Steel (C/S).

i do most of my layout with a good tape measure (i have a 16' Starret, but the 25' Empire is almost as good), metal framed combination square, steel framing square, metal frame level (good for straight-edges), and Industrial Sharpies (permanent markers). don't write on hot metal with a sharpie, it will kill it!

take all your measurments and write them down. then do all your layout. remeasure everything and double check your layout before cutting. if it is complicated, or has some complicated angles, make a piece out of cardboard.

buy high quality hand tools the first time around and forget about it! short story: i was recently in Daytona Beach finishing up a job and needed to hammer drill 6 little holes in concrete and drill 8 1/2 dia holes through 3/16" steel. so, i bought the cheapest 1/2" hammer drill i could find ($50 Skil at Home Depot). it went throught the 6 little holes like butter. but when i started drill the 1/2" hole, the drill began to smoke a little on the 3rd hole. 3/4 of the way through the 4th hole, flames and chunks were coming out of the drill...i ended up returning it to home depot. i offered to do a demo for the customer service people...but they must have believed me!

Black and Decker makes a line of drill bits called "Bullet Bits". they work surprisingly well! i drill alot of holes in S/S, and they usually outlast regular bits.

find a local industrial supply house and buy your cutting tools there. they will be of far superior quality than what you'll get at the hardware store, and probably the same price if not cheaper (sometimes A LOT cheaper).

talk to people, ask intelligent questions, and be willing to learn and try something new.

matt

Quality tools are a must, especially if they are going to see alot of outdoor use. I like dewalt, not too expensive, but definetly well built. I see them on construction sites, and they take alot of abuse without too many problems.

4 1/2" angle grinder is by far the most useful power tool I own also, avoid the cheap wheels, the good ones last 4 times as long, and only cost a little more, my second favorite is my 1/2" drill, forget 3/8" and don't even think about battery powered ones.

If you think you need a chop saw, first try buying a metal cutting blade for that circular saw that you probably got laying around, I did, and it worked pretty damn good, and I can save that $120 for a portable or stationary band saw later. For cutting with the circular saw, make your measurements, and then clamp a guide bar to the steel and keep the saw against this, this will give good results, much better than just eye-balling a chaulk line.

You can't have too many clamps and vices. A good bench vise is nice, but several different size C-clamps are also very handy.

For working in gravel or dirt, tarps and cardboard are great, but the best thing I have found is used carpet, I still a piece about 10' X 12' from a remodled hotel, cut it into two or three different pieces, and use it under the vehicle. Also, a piece of plywood will make it alot easier to move a floor jack around under a vehicle parked in gravel.

Good lights are also very handly, I got one of those dual halogen lamp trees that works great, but also keep a couple of simple drop lights handly. For power (both for lights and tools), I would recomend the heaviest shortest cords you can afford, and can reach your work area.

Another very handy comfort tool I got was a little propane powered salamander heater, it was pretty price at $100, but worth it's weight in gold, when you have to change a clutch in January outside. It also workes good for heating big parts (axle housings) to allow easier bearing race assembly.

hang on to scrap steel and lumber when possible, it always seems to come in handy.

If you ain't got an aircompressor, on-board-air should be your first mod, air tools, and cut the time in half.

With lots of practice, proper preperation, and enough patients (espcially for duty cycle), even those cheap wire feed welders, can be made to work in almost any situation.

Save plastic grocery bags, and use them to protect things like bearings, carriers, gears, and other parts you spent time cleaning, from the metal filings from grinding, or the dust and dirt from working outside.

A good pair of lether gloves, for working, and a couple of cheap pairs for handling oily parts.

Autozone can rent you most specialty tools (for free), try there before you order that 60 dollar slide hammer you only use once.

Probably more will come to me later

Chad

Originally posted by chadl

A good pair of lether gloves, for working, and a couple of cheap pairs for handling oily parts.
Chad

Note on leather gloves. Those Mechanix gloves... are pretty nice leather gloves. But, when it comes to welding for any long periods of time, they just don't offer the heat protection, discovered that after I had the welder running for nearly 1 hour straight, the little oil residue from previous jobs was still smoking after the welding stopped....... then I realized my hand was real hot. :rolleyes:

A few cases of beer will equal slave labor from buddies for a weekend...might have to toss in some pizza, though.

I bought one for around $60 at Harbour Freight along with a $40 drill press and a $50 chop saw. I have built my entire cage, hell the entire JEEP!, by myself (except the bending) on a 10 x 20 concrete slab under the shade tree.

I even talked my dad into going halves on a Miller 135 w/ the tank and all! He fronted his half and I am going to make my first payment this week ( almost done w/ the cage too!).

:D :D

Howdy...
i like to build my own stuff whenever I can, but living in an apartment and having extremely limited funds, I've got no BIG tools.

Anybody on PBB live near Raleigh and wouldn't mind taking me under their wing? I could use some welding help/advice from the pro's to help w/ some of the stuff I'm wanting to try to build.

Nothin' major... just some control arms maybe & skid plates and rocker guards. Who knows what else...

I could really use a friendly Jeep neighbor with a garage.:D

Kilby:

You better buy stock in a local :beer: brewery!:p

Here are a list of the top ten tools I have in my shop in order from most used to least used:


Big SnapOn screwdriver "Nothing even comes close"
Big hammer
Craftsman Hand tools
Wilton Vise
Milwaulkee Super Sawzall (twice as good as ANY other brand)
Craftsman Professional Air Compressor (and air tools)
Hobart 135 MIG welder
Craftsman Acetylene Torch (blue tip wrench)
Linde 320amp TIG welder (also does stick)
AutoCAD (computer aided design system)

There are others, but these are the best and most used.
I am looking to get a Bridgeport Vertical Mill with DRO soon, that will be my 3rd favorite when I have it.

Originally posted by CWToyota
Here are a list of the top ten tools I have in my shop in order from most used to least used:


Big SnapOn screwdriver "Nothing even comes close"
Big hammer
Craftsman Hand tools
Wilton Vise
Milwaulkee Super Sawzall (twice as good as ANY other brand)
Craftsman Professional Air Compressor (and air tools)
Hobart 135 MIG welder
Craftsman Acetylene Torch (blue tip wrench)
Linde 320amp TIG welder (also does stick)
AutoCAD (computer aided design system)

There are others, but these are the best and most used.
I am looking to get a Bridgeport Vertical Mill with DRO soon, that will be my 3rd favorite when I have it.


Damn, you have a way better shade tree than I do. Hell I have to use my OBA for my compressor.
Im surprised you dont have a plasma cutter,...that is one thing that I am very fortunate to have access to. One of my sponsors is a Rental yard, and Ive had their shop plasma cutter for the past 4 months, I just cant seem to give it back:D
If you like the Milwaukee Super sawzall, you would love the Porter Cable Sawzall. It has a longer stroke, more amps and outlasts our Milwaulkees on the jobsite by at least 2 x. Plus the blade changes in half a second and can be ran in both directions, better foot adjustment also.
In any case as soon as you get a bender, and that vertical mill, Im gonna wanna come by and spend a lot of time under your shade tree.

Originally posted by bgreen
Kilby:

You better buy stock in a local :beer: brewery!:p



Good point. But I thought lots of good :beer: was on the list of "required quality tools". Maybe now's the time to start my own microbrew!

After reading some threads on tube bending with a harbor freight. I went ahead and bought one. I got the 12 ton on sale for $69. You need to use shims to make sure your tubing matches the die, but it bends up to 90 degree pretty good. And if it doesn't pay for itself making a bumper or something, then make an attatchment out of channel iron to use it as a press, (like for those lousy leaf spring bushings).