Did my 52" swap this weekend on my 89 k-5 and have a few wierd things.

One, I only got about 2-2.5" of lift:laughing: . Everything I have read about this swap said I would get 4-5".

Two, I had to ditch the sway bar and now a sh!t load of body roll. I thought new springs would be stiff enough to not run a sway bar. Do I need to put it back on and if so how do I do this with the 52" fronts?

Three, My stearing feels really soft:( , I have a steering stabilizer. I'm still running the stock stearing set up and do have the money the do the crossover.

Ive got a moab trip coming up nov.11 and am driving(about 450 miles). I need to make this thing a little more streetable. I'm also on a budget so I need do this as cost effective as possible.

Thanks, Jared.

do u have pics?

52's without crossover steering is asking for trouble, especially offroad. is the overload spring in the pack? that could be why you didnt get much lift, or they are just shot. if you want the sway bar your going to have to fab up mounts.

slow down in the turns, that will eliminate most of your body roll.

Mucho body roll is a byproduct of 52's.

I agree with SouthernK5, you really need crossover with the 52's.

You are going to need crossover to get better steering...they are just to flexy. I would also add atleast one more long leaf to the pack to stiffen them up....are you still using the overload leaf? I here they last longer with it.

to get you more streetable, i would probably throw an add-a-leaf in there. should get you more stiffness and an inch or two of height. an overload would be able good idea. those things are cheap, but crossover should be in the plans.

I just did the 52" swap yesterday, OMG! Can they flex. As for more body roll, I really didn't notice any more than what I had with my 4" BDS springs. I also only got around 3.5" of lift out of them but also have the extra weight of the diesel up front.

Are you talking about 52" long leaf spring swap or 52" tires:question:

Springs

did you use springs out of something else or did you buy brand new springs? i used old springs from a couple different trucks and had to add more leaves to make it even usable, they were way to flexy to even drive around the yard.

did you use springs out of something else or did you buy brand new springs? i used old springs from a couple different trucks and had to add more leaves to make it even usable, they were way to flexy to even drive around the yard.


I used them as is, 4 leaves and an overload. I don't know what you are talking about them being to flexy to drive around the yard.

i originally used a set right out of a truck. they were wore out and flexed too much, and i didn't get much lift from them. that's what i meant. i used some other springs that weren't worn out as much and built a nice pack.

I used my rear springs and got 56" in the rear I got 4" of lift and I have a 6.2D, heavy shit. I also experience body roll and bump steer. I mounted ORD Swaybar Correction/Disconnect Kit and made new brackets for the sway bar in the front, that helped but to get I better Ill crossover steering during the winter.

Its hard to see, but the bracket are there.
http://austink5.net/albums/album312/CIMG0365.jpg

Per

So what if i like how low I am? would a kick ass set of shocks and maybe the sway bar fix this? I'm just running a set of rancho 5000's and need to up grade, what shocks should I buy? Also is the crossover steering going to help the body roll or just make it better to steer when flexed? And crossover is in the plans, money just wont allow it right now.

SouthernK5. What pics do you want to see? A side shot, flexed, brackets? And how do I post pics(I'm new at this)?


Thanks, Jared.

what do these 52 inch springs come out of?

they sound like I may want 'em. anyone have a buildup thread w/ this spring swap? anyone doing 63 inch springs in the rear w/ a shackle flip and the 52 inchers in the front?

what do these 52 inch springs come out of?

they sound like I may want 'em. anyone have a buildup thread w/ this spring swap? anyone doing 63 inch springs in the rear w/ a shackle flip and the 52 inchers in the front?

are you serious?:shaking: 52's are out of 73-87(91) chevy 1/2ton trucks...

what do these 52 inch springs come out of?

they sound like I may want 'em. anyone have a buildup thread w/ this spring swap? anyone doing 63 inch springs in the rear w/ a shackle flip and the 52 inchers in the front?

yeah... what are these S...P..R....I..N....G....S you speak of?!?!?

tell me more about these ssssssprings

LMFAO

:laughing:

it will still have body roll with crossover, changing the steering setup will not greatly reduce it. crossover is needed with the massive flex you have. when you do go to crossover you will probably need more height to clear your engine cross member. look under the engine and see how little room you have to work with under there. you can use a bent draglink or you can use a straight one. i used a straight one and i have enough room for it with the different cross member.

If you installed longer shackles when you did the swap that may be the cause of the "soft steering." I noticed when I did mine the steering tends to push the axle back and forth a little with the longer shackles. I used old springs (with all new bushings, no overloads,) and have crossover, high steer, and a ram assist. It definitely took a little thought to make it all fit. Even then things rub a little sometimes but not enough to bind anything. I like the low rider stance. The truck is very stable on sidehills and climbs. I had already modified the cross member when I did the cross over steering a while back but had to remove the factory one and fab a new one that mounted further back on the frame. I do have the advantage of trailering my rig so streetability is not an issue but it still seems to be pretty stable on fire roads and such. I also don't have a body to deal with as far as clearance issues are concerned. I run 42" IROK's. I don't have any real great pics of the front end but here's a couple to give you an idea what it looks like. By the way, rears are inboarded 63's with no overloads or shackle flip.
http://fourdice4x4.com/photos/albums/pebbles/DSCF1844.sized.jpg
http://fourdice4x4.com/photos/albums/Moonrocks-Labor-Day-06/P1010047_sized.jpg

By the way, Bilsteins are the only way to go!

Here's a writeup on a bracket kit from DIY4X.com that I did on our club site. Not trying to advertise the review as much as wanting you to know several things you have yet to experience on 52's. It could make your 450 mile trip a short one if you have not fully tested to make sure you do not experience axle wrap, d-shaft slip issues and so on.

http://www.capitalcitycrawlers.com/B52.htm

And YES, you should spend the money for crossover before going on the trip. :flipoff2:

I talked to shaffers offroad and they said they can get custom valved 7100 bilsteins, he said they can make them as hard as I need.

Do you think these plus a sway bar would make a dramatic difference?

Tinman, are those 7100 remote res. that I see on your rig? What valving are they? Have you always had them or were you running another brand before and if so how do they compare?

Thanks, Jared.

Do you have a trac bar? Hydro assist could make a big difference too.

I've always run them with this set up. I actually don't remember the valving. I got them from a friend that had them on the rear of his Jeep but they work really well at controlling the truck while crawling and especially bombing down a washed out fire road. I'll check with him on the valving and post it. I had Rancho 9000's before and they don't compare to the Bilsteins.

I not too sure any shocks will make a huge difference with body roll on the road. Good quality shocks will make a difference but all that weight up high is what's doing it.

are you serious?:shaking: 52's are out of 73-87(91) chevy 1/2ton trucks...
wtf

then why is it a swap? im missin somethin big huh

You are swapping them from the REAR to the FRONT :shaking:

You are swapping them from the REAR to the FRONT :shaking:
wow now i feel like a complete fucking moron.

my bad

you don't need a track bar with leaf springs.

When I did my 52 conversion, I sat way too low. So I took them to a local spring shop and gave them the measurements of how it was sitting and how I wanted it to sit.

$100 later, I was good to go and been flexing ever since. I did not do the crossover right away. Instead I drilled my over load leaf 2 inches behind the center pin, and welded in an allen bolt to act as a center pin. This allowed me to keep my front driveshaft, sway bar, and steering. I later switched to crossover as time/money allowed. But it did get me by for a few months, still flexed good ok. I did have to get longer shocks right away.

When I put in the 52's I took out my urethane bushings and went back to stock rubbers. While they flex better and ride better, when I went to crossover, I started having problems. The springs have started to slide sideways now on the bushings and makes my steering sloppy, so next in the works is to either put urethane back in :shaking: or add a track bar and keep the flexy rubber bushings :grinpimp:

I think I will add the track bar.

So I checked and my Bilsteins are 255/70 dampening. They're probably a little on the light side but if you order Bilsteins you just tell them your set up and the vendor should be able to set the values for your rig.

you don't need a track bar with leaf springs.

i need a track bar with my 64's and shackle flip in the rear....

won't it affect your flex?

won't it affect your flex?

if its set up right, it shouldnt. i havent built it yet, but im getting some pretty bad axle wrap. ill see if i can find some pics of other peoples trac bar setups

my setup is going to look something like this:
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183120&highlight=traction+bar+setup

On my truck, the frame would move back and forth instead of the tires wanting to turn. Trac bar fixed it. But I have big lift and 46s.

If you can keep the trac bar close to parallel with the ground it really shouldn't hurt flex.

oops. i was thinking of a panhard bar southernk5. i think i'm gonna need a traction bar also with my 56" and shackle flip when i put in the 454.

tawl boy what are you thinking about?

I've always needed a traction bar on the rear even with the stock 52" springs. Here's what mine looks like. Again, not the greastest pics.
http://fourdice4x4.com/photos/albums/pebbles/Blazer11_052006_0129_002.sized.jpg
http://fourdice4x4.com/photos/albums/pebbles/Blazer11_052006_0129_005.sized.jpg
The front wraps a little but hasn't been a problem so far.

i need a track bar with my 64's and shackle flip in the rear....


A track bar is a panhard bar... you are thinking of a single shackle traction bar. Both shoulden't affect flex much if properly set up.

ROB

So what tubing material is everyone using for there traction bar? Ive seen people use rod end's at both end's, bushings and rod end, all bushing's, what is the best way to go. Also do you think i need one on the front? There really isn't a place for me to test my suspention for wrap. I really dont want to drive all the way to moab and not be able to climb anything. If anyone is running a front traction bar I would like to some pics so I can tell about how long it needs to be and where its mounted.

Thanks, Jared.

Well you want it as long as posible. You want the instant center as far forward as possible to keep the antisquat as low as possible.

Here is a good thread ware Gordon does a great job explaining it.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351224&page=3

Good pic that describes it. Its a common missconseption that the main bar determans the antisquat...when its realy your shackle and tire height.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=209968&stc=1&d=1129140526

Here is a link to my most recent build:

http://www.m4x4a.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1059&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=15b2d07b8b62a487d5f2a38719ea9b05

Here are some pics of the traction bar. I used 1.75" OD .120 wall DOM for the main structure. The inner triangular pieces are 1.5"OD DOM. The bottom is wraped half way with a piece of 2" sch 40 pipe. They say .120 wall DOM alone will work untill you start bashing it on rocks...

http://www.m4x4a.org/ImageGallery/Toy-Summer-06/DCP00762.sized.jpg

http://www.m4x4a.org/ImageGallery/Toy-Summer-06/DCP00767.sized.jpg

http://www.m4x4a.org/ImageGallery/Toy-Summer-06/DCP00770.jpg

Oh and I don't think you will realy need one on the front...most people don't.

You want to place the rear one on the passenger side so the antisquat fights the torque lean.

I use bushings with the heaviest wall outer sleave I can fine everyware but at the top of the shackle. There I use a 5/8boltx3/4shank rod end thats rated arround 40K lbs. Its the same as what I use on my steering. I have herd that if you use rod ends at the axle it causes the welds on the mount to crack...I think it has more to do with people not having enough weld surface...

............ I really dont want to drive all the way to moab and not be able to climb anything. If anyone is running a front traction bar I would like to some pics so I can tell about how long it needs to be and where its mounted.

Thanks, Jared.


Ummmmm, there ARE closer areas to wheel and test a little. FWIW, I'm not running a front traction bar (but plan to add it on my 'Jeep' that's 80% GM).

I used .281 wall 1.25" tube (I think that's the OD) on my rear bar and plan to use it on the front. I like the size and there's nothing wrong with being 'overbuilt' on something that will contact rocks at some point, IMHO.


There's enough 'Jeep' in this picture it could offend some of you Chev folk :D, but here's my traction bar.
http://home.comcast.net/~marc.bryson/tractionbar.jpg

Ummmmm, there ARE closer areas to wheel and test a little. FWIW, I'm not running a front traction bar (but plan to add it on my 'Jeep' that's 80% GM).

I used .281 wall 1.25" tube (I think that's the OD) on my rear bar and plan to use it on the front. I like the size and there's nothing wrong with being 'overbuilt' on something that will contact rocks at some point, IMHO.


There's enough 'Jeep' in this picture it could offend some of you Chev folk :D, but here's my traction bar.
http://home.comcast.net/~marc.bryson/tractionbar.jpg


Are you the same mbryson on RME? If so where did you get you tubing from? I'm having a hard time finding anyone close by that sells it. Also on a front traction bar, do you still run a shackle and if so does it go in the same position as the rear?

52s/56s are really soft springs in the front of a heavy rig... good shocks, x-over, hydro assist etc might help but in the end its not the kind of mod you do to a heavily-street-driven rig with good results. I have 52s up front now, and am going to 56s... I have x-over, and hydro assist and BBCS15 shocks.... and my rig is a truggy so I have ditched a TON of weight in sheetmetal / useless crap. Haven't been able to test it in turns because I'm still working on the cage... but it oughta be all good.

j

Are you the same mbryson on RME? If so where did you get you tubing from? I'm having a hard time finding anyone close by that sells it. Also on a front traction bar, do you still run a shackle and if so does it go in the same position as the rear?



I don't run a front bar yet. I don't have a lot of issues there, but under the right circumstances, it does hop a little. Can't hurt to put one up there. I'll basicly do the same thing on the front. I've got room on the drivers side and it'd be easy to put there.

I got my tube from Rocklogic, but that's a bit of a drive from Roy. Skys Extreme is up your way and should take good care of you, though. Same mbryson as on RME. I'm the same @ss on every board and don't hide from it........:D

So what tubing material is everyone using for there traction bar? Ive seen people use rod end's at both end's, bushings and rod end, all bushing's, what is the best way to go. Also do you think i need one on the front? There really isn't a place for me to test my suspention for wrap. I really dont want to drive all the way to moab and not be able to climb anything. If anyone is running a front traction bar I would like to some pics so I can tell about how long it needs to be and where its mounted.

Thanks, Jared.

Jared - take a look at the review I posted on page 1. The bar's people have posted so far are not exactly what you need, but a good start. I have one which is cheap and very simple. Take a look at the attached pics, I also put dimensions on the doodle pad. You will not need a shackle in a front traction bar setup. Mine did not limit the travel at all.

Also, a subject that has been brushed over - front driveshaft. Have any of you had problems with pulling a stock type slip out on downtravel? My suspension had around 8" of downtravel and it pulled out the slip 3 times on one wheeling trip. I built a simple long slip shaft with PTO parts and it worked okay.

Back to the link - top bar is unmodified tractor link built by Adamik Offroad here in MO. Bottom bar is same type tractor link, with one end cut off and it notched at an angle. He welded in the gusset and added dimples for "bling". It took some abuse from the rocks, but held up well.

Right Side View

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=270938&stc=1&d=1162658315

Top View

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=270940&stc=1&d=1162658315

Bottom View

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=270939&stc=1&d=1162658315

Jared - take a look at the review I posted on page 1. The bar's people have posted so far are not exactly what you need, but a good start. I have one which is cheap and very simple. Take a look at the attached pics, I also put dimensions on the doodle pad. You will not need a shackle in a front traction bar setup. Mine did not limit the travel at all.

Also, a subject that has been brushed over - front driveshaft. Have any of you had problems with pulling a stock type slip out on downtravel? My suspension had around 8" of downtravel and it pulled out the slip 3 times on one wheeling trip. I built a simple long slip shaft with PTO parts and it worked okay.

Back to the link - top bar is unmodified tractor link built by Adamik Offroad here in MO. Bottom bar is same type tractor link, with one end cut off and it notched at an angle. He welded in the gusset and added dimples for "bling". It took some abuse from the rocks, but held up well.

Right Side View

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=270938&stc=1&d=1162658315

Top View

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=270940&stc=1&d=1162658315

Bottom View

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=270939&stc=1&d=1162658315



I did see your post on the first page and it has alot of info. The only problem I have is that I'm not running high steer so the bottom link will get in the way of the tie rod. I guess I could just cut the bottom link and weld it back together on an angle around the tie rod. do you think this would work and be strong enough?