: How dose the Assassin Do it?
John Deere Ranger 05-04-2002, 08:45 PM I was looking at the Avalanche Engineering Website and looking at the Assassin. It claims that he weight is 2000 lbs. But HOW? It just don't add up right for me. This is my simple math Correct me where I am wrong please.
Winch 100
Tran 150
Atlas 110
FAxle 400
RAxle 400
Motor 425
---------------------
Total 1585
That's 415 lbs left to build a roll cage, gas tank suspension, seats, gauges, wires linkages, driveshafts. It just don't add up? I think their web site is wrong... or those High Mark Axles are SUPER light weight
The site i was reading this off of was
http://www.avalancheengr.com/buggies/spec_assassin.htm
Hayraker 05-04-2002, 08:48 PM The real question is, how can a rig with every imaginable high dollar part known to man, still get spanked by all the homebuilt rigs.
John Deere Ranger 05-04-2002, 08:53 PM That is true but if some of the ol homebuilt boys had a lil lighter rig it might help out but thats all up for debate .........
FULLSIZE 05-04-2002, 08:54 PM :laughing: thats fawkin funny! doesn't add up to me either. maybe helieum filled tires?:rolleyes:
H8monday 05-04-2002, 08:57 PM THere is no way that the Asassin weighs only 2000lbs.
Mike Shaffers rig, is I believe around 2600lbs and its gotta be lighter than the Avalanche rig.
H8monday 05-04-2002, 08:59 PM Originally posted by dangerranger33
I was looking at the Avalanche Engineering Website and looking at the Assassin. It claims that he weight is 2000 lbs. But HOW? It just don't add up right for me. This is my simple math Correct me where I am wrong please.
Winch 100
Tran 150
Atlas 110
FAxle 400
RAxle 400
Motor 425
---------------------
Total 1585
That's 415 lbs left to build a roll cage, gas tank suspension, seats, gauges, wires linkages, driveshafts. It just don't add up? I think their web site is wrong... or those High Mark Axles are SUPER light weight
The site i was reading this off of was
http://www.avalancheengr.com/buggies/spec_assassin.htm
You didnt even add in wheels and tires yet
John Deere Ranger 05-04-2002, 09:00 PM go to the site it says that on the site
Ohh i forgot one thing.... .TIRES..... 350 lbs that leaves.... 65 lbs for the rest of it.... are they just like to lie or something?
Travis Waldher 05-04-2002, 09:07 PM Originally posted by Hayraker
The real question is, how can a rig with every imaginable high dollar part known to man, still get spanked by all the homebuilt rigs.
It's easy...
The guys that can afford all that stuff... don't have a clue about how to drive! All they seem to know is on/off (referrring to the throttle switch) :flipoff2:
Sloan 05-04-2002, 09:09 PM Have you seen it up close? There isn't much to it. I am 6'2" and there is no way I would fit in that thing.
John Deere Ranger 05-04-2002, 09:12 PM NO i've never seen it up close i was mad about that 2 at the fall 01 farmington ARCA i didn't make it to day one and the assassin broke on day 1 so it didn't compete on day 2..... but it's supossedly only 6" tall on top of that....
Jettech 05-04-2002, 09:31 PM Originally posted by dangerranger33
NO i've never seen it up close i was mad about that 2 at the fall 01 farmington ARCA i didn't make it to day one and the assassin broke on day 1 so it didn't compete on day 2..... but it's supossedly only 6" tall on top of that....
I saw it at Farminghton 02' day 2,they were dragging it on to the trailer cause it was missing a wheel,guess it's too lite and the 37's keep breaking shit:D:D
Wilson 05-04-2002, 10:21 PM Originally posted by twaldher
It's easy...
The guys that can afford all that stuff... don't have a clue about how to drive! All they seem to know is on/off (referrring to the throttle switch) :flipoff2:
This made me laugh, it reminded me of a conversation thatt I overheard between Camo and the driver of a sniper at theVictorville Cal Rocs.......
Camo: What ujoints do those run?
driver: Whatever dynatrac puts in there.
Camo: No, I meant the driveshaft.
driver: Oh....whatever Avalanche puts in there.
:eek: Now how does a person expect to fix a rig, if it does break if they don't know what it's made of??? Kind of scarey, if you ask me. I suppose he'd call Avalanche or Dynatrac, and have them air lift the rig out or the part in.:flipoff2: I'm pretty sure that Jess makes the drivelines for Avalanche, I see a lot of High Angle tubes being shipped to Avalanche.
sprueitt 05-04-2002, 10:22 PM Its not 2000 pounds just ask them... DUH! That was its goal weight when they were designing the rig and no the motor does not weigh 425 pounds either!
H8monday 05-04-2002, 10:34 PM Originally posted by sprueitt
Its not 2000 pounds just ask them... DUH! That was its goal weight when they were designing the rig and no the motor does not weigh 425 pounds either!
Well just exactly how much do you think a Vorteck(Im assuming a 4.3), weighs with all the bolt on accessories, bell housing, clutch/pressure plate, fluids and radiator. Your right its probably not 425lbs, its probably about 50lbs more.
And the 2000lbs is.... DUH! what they are advertising to potential buyers....DUH! :rasta:
TODDK 05-05-2002, 06:20 AM HOMEBUILT GUYS ALL THE WAY!!!!
:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:
TO THE HIGH DOLLAR ROLLERS WHO PAY FOR SOME COMPANY TO MAKE EVERYTHING FOR THEM THEN WHEN THEY FN BREAK THEY LOOK AROUND FOR HELP!!! SCREW THAT BUILD IT YOURSELF THEN MAYBE YOU CAN FIX IT YOURSELF BITCHES.....:flipoff2:
2000 LBS :smokin: PUFF PUFF PASS AVALANCHE
bigdude 05-05-2002, 06:42 AM Well just exactly how much do you think a Vorteck(Im assuming a 4.3), weighs with all the bolt on accessories, bell housing, clutch/pressure plate, fluids and radiator. Your right its probably not 425lbs, its probably about 50lbs more.
And the 2000lbs is.... DUH! what they are advertising to potential buyers....DUH!
SMACK
good one:beer:
John Deere Ranger 05-05-2002, 08:32 AM Originally posted by sprueitt
Its not 2000 pounds just ask them... DUH! That was its goal weight when they were designing the rig and no the motor does not weigh 425 pounds either!
Before i posted this on the Assassin I searched the web looking for weights of motors axles/ tranny etc... so I could "Semi accuratly post the pics"
I saw it at Farminghton 02' day 2,they were dragging it on to the trailer cause it was missing a wheel,guess it's too lite and the 37's keep breaking shit
I wasn't at the Farmington 02' I was at Farmington 01' Haven't been able to make it to ARCA this year.
spencurai 05-05-2002, 11:59 AM 2000 lbs for a 4x4 isn't that outrageous........if it is a bone stock dry weight of a soft-top samurai!! it weighs in at just a hair over 2000:flipoff2: :flipoff2: of course the entire drivetrain is aluminum and if you are a tough guy you can probably put your finger through the sheet-metal but other than that:D :D
FatCity 05-05-2002, 12:47 PM 2000lbs. was the goal weight, but the axles ended up be much heavier than they expected. Drew Barber built the chassis and said it weighed in at 190ish. The actuall weight of the assassin turned out to be 31-3200lbs. with the 37's.
ericfilar@fatcity
John Deere Ranger 05-05-2002, 03:27 PM 200 lbs for the Chassis? THat is still Really light i know its small but I was kinda guessing around 400....
Sillyneck 05-05-2002, 03:32 PM Originally posted by FatCity
2000lbs. was the goal weight, but the axles ended up be much heavier than they expected. Drew Barber built the chassis and said it weighed in at 190ish. The actuall weight of the assassin turned out to be 31-3200lbs. with the 37's.
ericfilar@fatcity
ohhhhhh. makes sense now. wonder who werx on the website?
that's still damn light for all those good components!
Wilson 05-05-2002, 03:33 PM Tube chasis are lite. The one toyfamily built for his buggy is easily picked up and carried around by two people.
John Deere Ranger 05-06-2002, 07:45 AM I just got off the phone with Avalanche and they said those axles weight 750 lbs Each and the total weight of the vehicle is 3300 lbs.
Originally posted by dangerranger33
I just got off the phone with Avalanche and they said those axles weight 750 lbs Each and the total weight of the vehicle is 3300 lbs.
:D Well the axle weight sounds lot like Unimog cast iron type (very tough!) and I bet that you can buy them much cheaper than those special built ones. But still rest of the car sounds pretty light when I compare it to our new car Alfaster. We have Unimog axles (the others than cast iron) and 39.5" or 44" TSL tires and Alfa Romeo aluminum 3.0L V6 +ZF tranny and home made tube frame with home made aluminum body. And the Alfasters weight is propably going to be something like 4000lbs when race ready. Am I counting it right (~1800kg/0.454=~4000lbs???) Please correct me if I'm wrong ;)
Alfaster
http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL83/530357/759623/9196065.jpg
Jare from Finland
Dingo 05-06-2002, 09:32 AM Jare, do you have any more pics of that thing? Looks really neat.......:D
StinkBug 05-06-2002, 09:58 AM Originally posted by H8monday
Well just exactly how much do you think a Vorteck(Im assuming a 4.3), weighs with all the bolt on accessories, bell housing, clutch/pressure plate, fluids and radiator. Your right its probably not 425lbs, its probably about 50lbs more.
And the 2000lbs is.... DUH! what they are advertising to potential buyers....DUH! :rasta:
the shipping weight of my 4.3 vortec with all accessories, and wiring was right at 600lbs. tho about 50 of that was the pallet
Dallas
RockRover 05-06-2002, 10:08 AM Originally posted by Jare
Alfaster
http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL83/530357/759623/9196065.jpg
Jare from Finland
Once again the Finland boyz are showing us how it's done! Can you say "World Rock-Crawling Championships WRCC"?
More pics Jare!
--D
Jakesteramalamajama 05-06-2002, 10:33 AM Originally posted by RockRover
More pics Jare!
Ditto. That thing looks mean.
Jake :D
TNToy 05-06-2002, 12:03 PM Those look like about a 6" dia. coil spring. :eek:
Lance 05-06-2002, 01:44 PM Sweet rig Jare. Them Finnish boys know what's up. ;)
BRUISER-42 05-06-2002, 09:16 PM 2000lbs. was the goal weight, but the axles ended up be much heavier than they expected. Drew Barber built the chassis and said it weighed in at 190ish. The actuall weight of the assassin turned out to be 31-3200lbs. with the 37's.
Thanks Eric, that is correct. The weight doese vary on tire combo (35's, 37's or 53's).
I do the website. When I set up that page the rig was not complete, so I used the target weight. I forgot about it, however anyone inquiring about having one built would have been told the current weight specs. I will change the site, thanks for noticing. Clifton:)
Lance 05-06-2002, 09:21 PM Originally posted by BRUISER-42
I do the website .... I forgot about it
Slacker. ;)
Dingo 05-06-2002, 09:40 PM DAMN!!!!!! Check it out......I found it I think...:eek: :eek: :eek:
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/alfaster.htm
aaronlosey 05-07-2002, 10:48 AM http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/alfasterrunko2.jpg
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/alfasterrunko4.jpg
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/alfasterrunko5.jpg
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/alfasterrunko6.jpg
fcfred 05-07-2002, 11:04 AM that assassin is no better than my old farm truck
they both have empty bottles and other junk rolling around on the cab floor!!:D
BillaVista 05-07-2002, 01:09 PM Are you Jare Solingen???? THEE JARE SOLINGEN???
No shit ????
WOW - I got all goosebumpy...that is so very cool. I know who he is!
This is pretty cool with Frog and Jare, we're gettin' pretty global here :smokin:
Hopefully it's ok with the Xterra drivers :rasta:
Cliffy [JD] 05-07-2002, 01:30 PM Originally posted by BillaVista
No shit ????
WOW - I got all goosebumpy...that is so very cool. I know who he is!
This is pretty cool with Frog and Jare, we're gettin' pretty global here :smokin:
Hopefully it's ok with the Xterra drivers :rasta:
I feel like I'm missing something here? Obviously these guys are "The Shiznit" in thier sport (Wheeling of some sort or another) but what's the details guys.
I'd like to know more.:beer:
This stuff is cool:D
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/chemog_RTI.jpg
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/chem1.jpg
FULLSIZE 05-07-2002, 02:41 PM hell yes! :beer: thats bad ass lookin. serious family wagon.............:flipoff2:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Daniel
[B]Are you Jare Solingen???? THEE JARE SOLINGEN???
You guys have no Idea who our newbie is... Tell us your events won records would ya Jare???
WELCOME NEWBIE...:D
[QUOTE]
Jare Salonen and I think I'm the one who you think I am ;)
The best that we have won so far is Europian Championship in Spain at 1998. Then our Moggster was brand new and worked really nice at those narrow Spanish trails.
Jare
Dingo 05-08-2002, 01:22 AM Jare Salonen and I think I'm the one who you think I am ;)
The best that we have won so far is Europian Championship in Spain at 1998. Then our Moggster was brand new and worked really nice at those narrow Spanish trails.
Jare [/B]
Impressive from the pics of Euro-wheeling I have seen......welcome.:smokin:
Originally posted by Daniel
[B]Are you Jare Solingen???? THEE JARE SOLINGEN???
You guys have no Idea who our newbie is... Tell us your events won records would ya Jare???
WELCOME NEWBIE...:D
Here is short history of me and my father:
PART I:
We started Of Road Trial competitions at 1991 (I was co-driver cause I was only 15 then and driver needs to have license and in Finland we get that at age of 18) with litlle built Range Rover (see the pic) it had body and suspension lift and slightly trimmed fenders to clear 280/85-16" (about 34-35" tall) Good Year tires, roll cage, tube bumbers and welded rear diff (Lincoln it is rigth?)
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/rankku4.jpg
We drove with that to '91 and '92. After '92 season we decided that we need to do something because we were not getting any good results. So we decided to to change for Prototype cars cause I always liked them better because of their big tyres and that they went trough worse places than Modified cars did. We liked some of Range Rover so we built new car on Rover frame, suspension (wheelbase 100"), engine and gearboxes. We narrowed the frame a bit to get more room for 39.5/15-15" TSLs when turned. Body is old Russian car: GAZ-69. I always had like the old car look of it :D Axles are from Jeep Cherokee Dana 44 with ARBs and 5.89:1 gears (It was suppose to be built on Volvo C-303 axles but we waited too long to buy the car so we had to go for Dana44s). In spring '93 this car was ready and we did pretty well with that one too. If I remember we were on fourth place in our CUP series at '93.
RR Special
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/RR-special-serena.jpg
In '94 I got my driving license and so I started driving and father Kari has been my co-driver since that. In '94 we were on third place at the CUP.
Me driving my first competition with RR Special
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/RR-special-hamina3.jpg
Continues.......
PART II:
Then after '94 we started to think to build car with stronger axles cause Dana44s were not strong enough. We broked many front shafts and few ones from the back. So we decided to build car that is based on Unimog. Then we knew that engine should have bit more torque and it needs to me reliable so we put chevy 350 in it with manual operated TH-350. Behind those was rubber joint from Mercedes that connected tranny to Unimog Gearbox. Tyres were first 44" boggers. Body was hand made copy of Range Rover. Body was over 10" narrowed, bit lowered and shortened. at the first competiton in 1995 we took first place without any minus points (what are they called really??) and that sure was great :p. The '95 season was very good because we also won the whole Finnish Trial series and also Nordic Championship in Norway. For season '96 we changed bigger tyres and made 4 wheel steering.
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/chem.jpg
Season '96 was like '95 so we won Finnish Championship and Nordic Trial that was held in Finland (Nordic was also with zero points even that tracks were like murder according to swedish 4 Wheel Drive magazine). In the end of '96 we built hydraulic suspension and for '97 we changed colours:
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/isonur3.jpg
We came second in Finland and at Nordic Trial in Denmark we also got the Second place. So now it was time to make car that has longer wheelbase than 100" and it should be lighter too. Chemog weighted about 6300lbs without drivers :eek:
So it was time for Moggster. Tube frame, light home made aluminum body and technical parts out of Chemog. Wheelbase is about 113" and we managed to drop the weight down to 4700lbs and put in steering brakes and modified the unimog gearbox to be only a T-case. We used parts from NP-208 and the rest was from Unimog. Also rear wheel steering could steer more now than it could in Chemog.
http://www.arendaloffroadklubb.com/moggsterforsale.jpg
In '98 we ruled the Europe with this car :rolleyes: We won Finnish series, Nordic Championship (race was in Sweden at that year) and then the Europian Champion title in Spain. In '99 we couldn't do it because now it was turn for Petri "Peppi" Mattsson and his Tamgotchi:
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/raisio-peppi2.jpg
He won Finnish CUP series (we were on second place) and Euro Trial that was held in Finland. Us and Peppi we had to take re-run in Euro Trial and in that he was beter so we had to take the second place :( Our rear wheel steering jammed and so we hit side markers and got some points :( Well in Nordic Trial he didn't do so well. Swedish guy Lars Dahl won (exelent driver, he has won Swedish champion title many many times) we were second and Seppo "Popo" Luukkanen from Finland was third. Peppi rolled his Tamagothci twice in that race and he retired.
Go to the next Part :)
PART III:
Year 2000 was time for us to get better and so we did in Finland CUP series as well as in Nordic Trial. Champions in both. In Euro Trial in Switzerland it was more mud and slippery hills than rocks. We were on sixth place or something maybe even worse :mad3:
Moggster in Switzerland
http://www.gwc-schweiz.ch/euro0317.jpg
2001 it was time for Popo and his new car to take the Finnish Championship (we were once again in second place).
Popos Honda Jep
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/timo.virtanen/kisat/turku/kuva06.jpg
Nordic Trial was in Sweden and we came fourth but still Finnish fellow Tuukka Laasonen won the Prototype group and Popo was third
Tuukkas Mud Eater Jeep
http://www.phnet.fi/public/mika.jussilainen/kuvat/offroad/pinkki.jpg
Euro Trial was in sout Germany and we were on sixth place again :(
But now 2002 season starts at next saturday and we hope that Alfaster will be good enough to win Finnish Series and Nordic Trial Denmark and Euro Trial in Norway.
Alfaster
http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL83/530357/759623/9196075.jpg
So that's who I am :D
Jare Salonen, Finland
Dingo 05-08-2002, 03:45 AM Jare, very very cool rigs. From the pics, it doesn't look like you guys use winches??????
Jakesteramalamajama 05-08-2002, 05:36 AM Yeah... Whaddya do when you get stuck?
Jake
P.S.
That Alfaster looks like one kick ass rig man...
Snoopy 05-08-2002, 08:01 AM I could see 2000 lbs if you aren't counting the axles, tires, or suspension parts. I think those are all add-ons ~since they vary from rig to rig...one of those "how do you want us to build it" kinda things.
Schly 05-08-2002, 10:30 AM Wow! Great Thread! Thanks a lot for the Write Up Jare!! And Welcome to the PBB. I actually think there are quite a few locals on this site that could take spelling lessons from you.:D
John
Sillyneck 05-08-2002, 11:43 AM welcome...and wholey shlitz :D
Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama
Yeah... Whaddya do when you get stuck?
Jake
P.S.
That Alfaster looks like one kick ass rig man...
Well we don't get stuck :D :D :D :D
OK OK seriously we don't use winches because event organizers must bring winch cars or tractors or excavators that will help us when we get stuck or break down or roll over. Our trial section is not very long and we have 3, 4 or 5 minutes time to get trough (time depends of lengt of the track) it with minimal penalty points and when penalties goes over 20 it's MAX and you should move to next section....or go grab a beer if your car is totalled ;)
We get penalties from:
1 penalty if your car is not going foreward in 3 seconds
3 penalties when you reverse or use forces that helps you getting backwards
5 penalties of touching going over side markers under 1 meter is allowed in this.
20 when you go out of the track more than 1 meter, or need help from outside (winch, Hi-Lift or what ever) and if your car is not moving in 1 minute (so we can smoke our tyres in one place 1 minute and then its out to next track)
25 if you don't go on to the track at all
Co-driver and driver needs to be inside the car at the track and wear 4-point seat belts in bucket seats and use helmets for car racing. And in Sweden, Norway and in Euro Trials we need to use nets on the side (above door) or sometimes arm straps are also allowed to use (these are for that driver or co-driver don't put their hands out when it comes to roll over or when driving between rocks or trees).
We usually have six to ten sections that are driven twice. In Finland we usually drive on rocks and cliffs. In Europe it looks to be more mud and hills of dirt and sand than rocks. In Sweden they drive mostly on rocks and some places in Norway also has rocks. I think that in Finland we are going to move a bit from the rocks to dirt and sand so that we could get some speed to the events. We have noticed that public likes more action than going slowly over big pile of rocks. But we'll see that after this summer :rolleyes:
im impressed. :eek: thanks for the thread. we are not worthy......:p
Jakesteramalamajama 05-09-2002, 01:12 PM Originally posted by Jare
We get penalties from:
1 penalty if your car is not going foreward in 3 seconds
3 penalties when you reverse or use forces that helps you getting backwards
5 penalties of touching going over side markers under 1 meter is allowed in this.
20 when you go out of the track more than 1 meter, or need help from outside (winch, Hi-Lift or what ever) and if your car is not moving in 1 minute (so we can smoke our tyres in one place 1 minute and then its out to next track)
25 if you don't go on to the track at all
I like those rules a lot better than the ones at most American competitions. No rock stacking or having a spotter named Moose to throw your Jeep around instead of you having to drive it...
:flipoff2:
Jake
Chris Geiger 05-09-2002, 01:39 PM Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama
I like those rules a lot better than the ones at most American competitions. No rock stacking or having a spotter named Moose to throw your Jeep around instead of you having to drive it...
:flipoff2:
Jake
Hell I was thinking of entering RRCA with a soap box car and have Moose pick it up and carry it to the finish!
BillaVista 05-09-2002, 03:38 PM Holy shiznit!
I had heard of you Jare, and seen a couple of your rigs, but had no idea your resume was that impressive........WOW!
That is some truly impressive stuff.......take note American friends!
Wouldn;t it be really cool if there were ever a true "world championship" with many kinds of events so no one style or country was favoured.....think Safari Triathlon + Nordic championship + TTC + RCAA + Calrocs + ???
Welcom Jare:D :smokin:
without any minus points (what are they called really??)
I would say either "deductions" or "penalty points" ??
But minus points works, and is sure better than any of our Finnish ;)
BJ On Roids 05-09-2002, 03:39 PM Originally posted by Jare
Well we don't get stuck :D :D :D :D
WELL, you're obviously not trying hard enough!! :flipoff2:
:p insane rigs, i guess the mogs are pretty common over there and easy to get axle parts for?
CaptainFleXJ151 05-09-2002, 04:52 PM Jare - that stuff is ver impressive. Ever since I got into 4 wheeling I've wondered where all the technology is. I feel so limited as to what I can do here in the U.S. Ya'll need to come over here and we get this party started. I'm talking dry sump SOHC V8, potals, hydro suspension...the whole nine yards. I want the Chemog, only with an XJ body.
Jare,
Holy schnikes, you guys are awesome!
I'm diggin' the chick on the wall of the shop. I guess some things never change regardless of location, country, language, etc.
http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/alfasterrunko6.jpg
cm "good luck this season!" k
xBabyJesus 05-09-2002, 06:27 PM MAD props to those crazy foreigners, sweet rig. :smokin:
Wilson 05-09-2002, 06:42 PM Very impressive Jare
Supergper 05-09-2002, 08:39 PM Originally posted by Chris Geiger
Hell I was thinking of entering RRCA with a soap box car and have Moose pick it up and carry it to the finish!
Why not use a 4wd 4wheeler (ATV) put a few aftermarket parts on and mod the body a little and then yous gots yourself a very light vehicle:D:D:D
CWToyota 05-10-2002, 01:25 AM Both years at the NWRCA championship I watched high dollar tube frame rigs (many driven by people who probably didn't build them) struggle on the rocks... and I watched as a few of the Home built Jeeps, Toys, and hybrids kill the obstacles... so it seems to me that the avalanche is Either driven poorly, or not bult correctly. There is more strategy to rock crawling than most people realize.
The nordic guys have the right idea, not rock crawling... Off Road Trials... this is much more challenging and spread competitors across more types of terrain... What I would like to see is an off-road series that starts somewhere like Farmingon, NM and then goes to Elbe Hills, WA then to Sweet Home, OR, then maybe to some snow wheelin... cover a broad range of terrain.
ChadLloyd 05-10-2002, 05:57 AM Originally posted by CWToyota
What I would like to see is an off-road series that starts somewhere like Farmingon, NM and then goes to Elbe Hills, WA then to Sweet Home, OR, then maybe to some snow wheelin... cover a broad range of terrain.
I'd like to see that too, but you know why it won't happen?
1) Those kinds of venues are not 'spectator friendly', which means you cannot jam as many spectators into too small a space and relieve them of their money fast enough,
and
2) not as many roll overs for those aforementioned spectators to hoot ad holler over.
Not complaining, I love ARCA, I'm doing a lot of the hooting and hollering when I watch the tapes (the only way I can see it from where I am), just pointing out the (unfortunate) reality of the situation.
Remember when motorcross championships were won completely on outdoor tracks?
BillaVista 05-10-2002, 10:43 AM The nordic guys have the right idea, not rock crawling... Off Road Trials... this is much more challenging and spread competitors across more types of terrain...
MAJOR Amen on that !
Remember when motorcross championships were won completely on outdoor tracks?
I HATE it when you're right (esp. about marketing.....:flipoff2: )
Wonder why it works in Europe......different mentality I guess. Same reason Rally cars is huge there, and in North America NASCAR is huge (and very very lame IMHO)
bgreen 05-10-2002, 08:38 PM Wonder why it works in Europe......different mentality I guess. Same reason Rally cars is huge there, and in North America NASCAR is huge (and very very lame IMHO)
Most people are not willing to stand out in the weather to watch their favorite motor sport. I can see their point, but they are missing out on all the real action. ever go watch a snowmachine hill cross or hill climb? Thats dedication to your sport. Lots of carnage too. But, you have to stand on the side of a mountain in freezing temps, possibly in the snow or rain to really see the action. I can see why people dont really want to get into that. I think that the european guys are just used to it. I know that Alaskan guys would be willing to watch some multi terrain wheelin. I would love to see any kind of 4x4 comp for that matter. Its too bad that more people dont feel the same way I, and probably most of the people on this board , do.
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