Leaf spring gurus unite!!

[DJForrestA]

Okay I need replace my rear leaf springs. I have 56 in chevies now but I need some 58 inch springs so my shackles will flex. I'm a little saggy in the rear so something similar to the a standard 3/4 ton chevy. Also the center pin needs to be at 28 inches on the short side and I guess 30 to 32 on the long side. Any ideas? Basically I'm lazy and would rather bolt in some new springs grind off my mounts and reweld everything.

[R290]

Ford 150 rear springs are like 57" with a 4" offset. Thats one I don't have in the bone pile to check for sure.. But they are a 3" spring :(

[BLK Scout 800]

No such thing as 58'' leafs as far as I know(unless you go custom). The new powerstroke's have 59's I think but they are proly 3'' wide...... I would go 63's but that's just me :D

[highly undr8ed]

Fix it right... Or go custom, prolly high dollar stuff... $.02

[Mechanos]

I've actually been looking into the leaf spring thing again lately. I'm itchin' to get the 1-tons under the Scout so I can quit pussy-footin around the trails trying to be extra careful not to break shit (and I broke shit anyway). If I wait until have the $$ to buy up all the parts/materials necessary to link the Scout front and rear, I'll be on retirement before the axles find their way under the rig. So, I'm seriously considering swapping the 1-tons in on leaf springs for now and worry about linking it with coilovers at some point in the future.

With all that said, I've been researching springs trying to decided which ones to use. So far, I'm liking the '74 to '89 Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer front springs for their length (47") and offset center pin (22.5/24.5). For the rear, I'm liking the '99 to '04 Ford F-250/350 rear springs (59.15") with an offset center pin (25.5/33.65). The Ford springs do have a pretty high spring rate for trail use, so I'd imagine there would have to be be some playing around with removing some leaves to dial them in. They are a 3" wide spring though.

[ihochad]

Mech, Just curious but why do you like the 47" lenght? I am going to run the 53" chevys, I know that is certianly nothing new. I not totally commited at this point so am wondering what made head towards those?

[Mechanos]

Mainly because of the offset center pin. All the ~53" springs I could find specs on (never found a true 53" spring... but a lot of 52" or 52.5") had a centered center pin. The 47" Waggy springs have a 22.5"/24.5" split that would allow me to move the axle closer to the front of the vehicle without having to extend the frame to catch the forward spring hanger.

Also, the longer the springs, the better they flex (generally). But, with RS on the SII, the longer the spring, means the longer the "fang" in order to keep the spring eyes level.

I'd have to do some measureing, but with my wide axles, I might actually be able to outboard the front springs without sacrificing any turning radius. That's probably wishful thinking, but it would lend some benefits to keeping the springs eyes level. Might also eliminate the problem of the cast spring perch and rotated pinion angle.

[Brandon]

borrow a portaband and those mounts will come off like butta, then just buy new ones and run whatever you want. I run rear waggy's backwards so there isn't much spring at the tail end but not much overhang either. They are fairly long but I don't recall the length of them

[Brandon]

http://www.4x4spot.com/misc__spring_information.htm

some good stuff there, I run the 57" waggy's in the rear.

[R290]

One more tid bit. Berlin eyes are said to be weaker then the up turned eye, of course reinforced or the military wrap are best. I toss ideas around and around and went with RS and 44044 up front, you can forgot the JY springs, too weak, will need to pony up $300 for new ones.
As for rears I did the 56 chevy rear truck springs, re working the packs too. Since mine are under the frame is flex's real nice. I looked a putting the 3" fords up front since I have the IH (It'sHeavy) engine.

[Mechanos]

How about a pic of your inboarded spring setup.

[R290]

How about a pic of your inboarded spring setup.
Old shot, no bumper

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=258754&d=1155679104

Hard to see, but the hanger keeps the bottom frame rail smooth
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256646&d=1154310787

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256546&d=1154235551

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256545&d=1154235551

I mounted them in the stock location, but with the 4" offset it move the axle back enough the tires don't hit the front wheel well, I did trim the rear

[472Scout]

Mainly because of the offset center pin. All the ~53" springs I could find specs on (never found a true 53" spring... but a lot of 52" or 52.5") had a centered center pin. The 47" Waggy springs have a 22.5"/24.5" split that would allow me to move the axle closer to the front of the vehicle without having to extend the frame to catch the forward spring hanger.

Also, the longer the springs, the better they flex (generally). But, with RS on the SII, the longer the spring, means the longer the "fang" in order to keep the spring eyes level.

I'd have to do some measureing, but with my wide axles, I might actually be able to outboard the front springs without sacrificing any turning radius. That's probably wishful thinking, but it would lend some benefits to keeping the springs eyes level. Might also eliminate the problem of the cast spring perch and rotated pinion angle.

Why not just redrill the main leaf? Are you worried about strength or the other leafs not being centered?

[R290]

Why not just redrill the main leaf? Are you worried about strength or the other leafs not being centered?

Do able but then replacement spares are not readily available without some work. I found you have to use a special carbide bit to drill through too. I talked with somebody ( can't remember who for sure) but they said their spring broke at the new drilled out hole.
I made these to help with spring wrap
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=250658&d=1150733033

[Mechanos]

Went to the JY today.... all sorts of springs to choose from. I found 50", 53", 56" springs both 2.5" and 3" wide.... some centered, some offset. I finally settled on a pair 63" x 2.5" springs from an '89 Chevy. Damn, those fawkers are heavy. Got the rear springs, so I just need to find the best deal on a set of 44044's.

[R290]

With 63, you can just re work the stock mount in the front and fab something up for the rear. I belive that will net you about 3.5" to the rear. 63 are centered right? no problem with the frame lenght. What about shock mount locations?

[Mechanos]

With 63, you can just re work the stock mount in the front and fab something up for the rear. I belive that will net you about 3.5" to the rear. 63 are centered right? no problem with the frame lenght. What about shock mount locations?
Not going to be quite that easy.... I'm going to move the rear axle back about 6" from where it is now, so that means cutting the front mount off and relocating it about 3" rearward. Then cutting the rear mount off and putting it whereever it needs to be. I was thinking about using the stock Chevy "Y" looking shackles, but I couldn't get them off the damn truck. I got lucky and all four of the spring eye bolts were loose in the sleeve and came right out without putting up any fight at all. The two shackle to frame mount bolts were seized solid in there sleeves, so I couldn't get the shackles. Moving the axle that far back also means dropping the fuel tank and removing/moving/modifying the frame crossmember to clear the diff. That also means, modifying or making a custom fuel cell to clear the diff.

I haven't decided whether or not to inboard the rear spring under the frame. I figure it would probably be best to get the front axle and springs in place first and then see which route makes more sense.

[R290]

Not going to be quite that easy.....

Damm:eek: But we (Mechanos "tech hungry bitches") would not expect anything less from you. Hey you can buy my traveler and just bob it.:flipoff2:
Jeff is expanding his line of parts, currently RPT (Race Proven Technology) he now starting a line CPT (Crawler Proven Technology) He will have some 2.5" RS parts available shortly.

Here is coil bucket used as a leaf spring mount and body mount.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=273146&stc=1&d=1163908248

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=273147&stc=1&d=1163908248

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=273148&stc=1&d=1163908248

[Creepy196]

http://www.4x4spot.com/misc__spring_information.htm

some good stuff there, I run the 57" waggy's in the rear.


There's some good info there. However, it's not all correct. It lists Waggy fronts as being centered (24"+24").

[Scout Dork]

This is a shot of my Rear 14b with 63" chevy springs
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f13/ScoutDork/Rear14Bolt.jpg
This moved the Rear axle back about 4", using the stock bump stop as a reference.
This is my Rear Front spring hanger, the spring is 1/4" from the bottom of the frame.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f13/ScoutDork/RearFronthanger.jpg

The rear shackle is through the frame, with 4" eye to eye shackles. I think it sits to high. I will see how it is with tires on it. Still working on it. The front are 6 leaf Ranch 44044 springs. With a 107" wheel base.

Scout Dork

[Brandon]

There's some good info there. However, it's not all correct. It lists Waggy fronts as being centered (24"+24").


Really? I think the YJ's are but the waggys add a couple inches out one end

I can't believe there isn't something better out there listing that stuff (even that is over 3 years old)

[Creepy196]

Really? I think the YJ's are but the waggys add a couple inches out one end

Exactly. As stated by Mechanos Waggy springs (both stockers and Rancho 44044's) are 22.5/24.5". The Toyota page you linked lists them as being 24"/24". That's interesting since they do list the correct offset for Waggy rears, as well as several obscure springs. :confused:


76 Jeep Wagoneer 4wd rear (6 leaf) 57" 26" 31" 2.50" SOA
76 Jeep Wagoneer 4wd front (6 leaf) 48" 24" 24" 2.50" SUA



I can't believe there isn't something better out there listing that stuff (even that is over 3 years old)


I've seen links to other spring lists on Pirate. When I'm up late tonite drinkin' :beer: and wasting time on the computer I'll do a search and edit this post with a link if I find it...

[Mechanos]

I pulled my technical specs from the Rancho catalog. The only thing that doesn't match up out of the catalog is the free arch dimension since the Rancho springs are lift springs.

So, who has the best deal on 44044's?

[Mechanos]

This is a shot of my Rear 14b with 63" chevy springs
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f13/ScoutDork/Rear14Bolt.jpg
This moved the Rear axle back about 4", using the stock bump stop as a reference.
This is my Rear Front spring hanger, the spring is 1/4" from the bottom of the frame.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f13/ScoutDork/RearFronthanger.jpg

The rear shackle is through the frame, with 4" eye to eye shackles. I think it sits to high. I will see how it is with tires on it. Still working on it. The front are 6 leaf Ranch 44044 springs. With a 107" wheel base.

Scout Dork
Hmmmmm...... too high, huh? I'm trying to avoid "too high" with this swap, so just exactly how high is it? Just curious what you consider too high.

[Scout Dork]

Maybe it's the shock from going from spring under to spring over. My predictions are that it will lift the scout 10". I had a measurement of 21" to my bottom door rocker, with the lift, it will go to 31". And what's too tall for me, is different than for you. I'm looking for stability, that's why the full width. It should be all good.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f13/ScoutDork/63SPRING.jpg
Scout Dork

[Mechanos]

Well, I'm looking for stability as well.... the way my rig sits now, it's too floppy. :laughing: :flipoff2: It's SOA with some other lift here and there... I believe it's about 7"-8" over stock.... on stock width axles.

However, the new axles will have a track width 10" wider than what I have now.

[R290]

I pulled my technical specs from the Rancho catalog. The only thing that doesn't match up out of the catalog is the free arch dimension since the Rancho springs are lift springs.

So, who has the best deal on 44044's?

4wheelparts is having a 20% off one day only Nov 24th. between 5-6 pm. I can e-mail the add if you like.

Scoutdork your killing me with those jack stands. I think Harbor Freight has those on sale too. I pick up two pair of 6 tons stands at half price. They were like $13-14 for a pair. They are also doing a lot building near work and scored some 2 and 3 foot peices of 6x14 LVLS (laminated wood beams)

Here another shot from the rear.

[Mechanos]

4wheelparts is having a 20% off one day only Nov 24th. between 5-6 pm. I can e-mail the add if you like.

Scoutdork your killing me with those jack stands. I think Harbor Freight has those on sale too. I pick up two pair of 6 tons stands at half price. They were like $13-14 for a pair. They are also doing a lot building near work and scored some 2 and 3 foot peices of 6x14 LVLS (laminated wood beams)

Here another shot from the rear.
OK, thanks.... yeah, email me the ad please.

I measured the same dimension as Dorky this morning when I left the house. My rig is currently sitting with 10.75" distance from the top of spring to bottom of frame. Dork's measurement was 13.25", so if I were to mount my springs exactly like he did, I should expect to be around 2.5" taller. I was not planning on using 'through the frame' shackles on the rear, so actually I'd be even taller yet. With that in mind, I may not do the inboard thing... if I leave the springs on the outside of the framerails, I can mount the hangers above the bottom of the frame.

Craig, for comparison purposes, how about pulling the same measurement on your rig? I'm pretty amazed at how much arch there is in the stock 63" springs.

[Snoopy]

I can't believe people are still doing so much fab work to keep leaves. I should be picking up a 'turn-around' project today to test my ideas on coils with. With any luck, seeing coil-conversions will be as popular in a few years as these 'trick' leaf setups and SOA's are today.

[Mechanos]

There's nothing "trick" about it. :shaking:

It's a simple matter of $$$ and/or time for some of us. With coils, coilovers or airshocks, you have to have some way to locate the axle which means links of some sort. That just means more $$$. For me, it boils down to getting the rig back on the trail faster. Sure, I could link it (which was what I was actually planning on doing) but it would probably take me another year+ to come up with the $$$ for the joints, link material, link brackets, axle trusses, coilovers, etc., etc.......

I may still link it up in the future, but in the meantime, I'd like to wheel the rig while I'm saving up & collecting parts for that.

[BLK Scout 800]

It's always about the money :shaking:




If we all had the cash the parts would be in a big pile in the back of our scouts.........:evil:

[Snoopy]

I hear ya ~ the old $$ arguement, I'm not going to argue about it, I just see all the time and fab put into extending the frame, RS kits, shackles, springs (some go 44044s some use JY parts) and I have to think, with some amount of creativity, one can put together a clean yet cheap link suspension for about what they have (time and materials) in a leaf sprung system.

Thats all.

[Snoopy]

Sure, I could link it (which was what I was actually planning on doing) but it would probably take me another year+ to come up with the $$$ for the joints, link material, link brackets, axle trusses, coilovers, etc., etc.......
I'm thinking ~ if you were closer and could spare about $500 and a weekends time ~ I"m sure we could put together a decent 4-link front or rear.

Alright ~ alright, I won't beat a dead horse. I'll go back into my hole.

[BLK Scout 800]

My Graderball rear is as follows........


175.00 Grader ball
200.00 2x4x3/8 wall x 8', 2 heims for P-Bar
500.00 2 Fox 18'' air shocks

I know it could be done for less with some junkyard coils, but my rancho shocks in the rear are junk. The 9000's shocks alone are $200.00 in the wrong direction...

[R290]

Edit.. Craig, for comparison purposes, how about pulling the same measurement on your rig? I'm pretty amazed at how much arch there is in the stock 63" springs.

Top of spring to bottom of frame at bump stop 10.5" springs are 2" thick 5 leafs plus cut down overload in there. This is with nothing in the rear, no spare tire, tools, rear seat out. But like you said setup the front and then do the rear. Shocks were a limiting factor, I have 13" shocks and about 2.5" of rod showing, so it's all droop. The bed has a couple bumps in it now as I had to push them all the way up. Better then cutting a hole and rewelding something back in there. ( yes that was a last minute bumpstop addition before the CON in Sept)

[Scout Dork]

When people ask what are you doing to your scout, I say some 1970's technology.
Then I found my blocks that where being used to hold up another project.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f13/ScoutDork/SafeRear.jpg


Then after re-installing my front shackles, And moving the scout up & down. a New measurement was taken. 11" from top of spring to bottom of frame.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f13/ScoutDork/Eleven.jpg
Sorry for the miss measuremnts, could be the 15 year old spring settled over night:rolleyes:

Scout Dork

[Mechanos]

Hmmmmm..... that's just about where my SII springs have me sitting with the springs mounted in the stock locations. I can't see me using through the frame shackles in the rear, so I could end up a little bit higher than you.