I have seen the aluminum MPFI intakes and why hasn't anyone made a sheetmetal intake for the IH motors. I think it would be easy to make one and be cheaper than the aluminum. My buddy makes them for Chevys and I got to thinking about getting him to make one.
Would it cause you to lose power or just not be as strong I seen motors with turbos and sheetmetal intakes so it should be strong enough. Anyone? Need some answers before I waste my time.

I have seen the aluminum MPFI intakes and why hasn't anyone made a sheetmetal intake for the IH motors. I think it would be easy to make one and be cheaper than the aluminum. My buddy makes them for Chevys and I got to thinking about getting him to make one.
Would it cause you to lose power or just not be as strong I seen motors with turbos and sheetmetal intakes so it should be strong enough. Anyone? Need some answers before I waste my time.

I've been wanting to build one for a few years, but just never get around to it. :)

Wanna build me a tunnel-ram for my 304? :D

One big concern for me was the coolant in the intake. Can't just plug the side to side (head to head) coolant - you have to actually route that coolant somewhere and then build a new thermostat setup. That seems to be the biggest hurdle.

Fabricating one up would not be that hard. Getting your ideas translated into a design, that takes a little more effort. If you build one, the first one always takes the longest, looks the worst, and causes the most headaches. Keep your eye on the coolant flow, to much and to little can both cause problems. If I was going to be around I'd help you do it myself just for shits and giggles.:D

I think the termostat housing would pose a problem but should be able to over come it.

I think the termostat housing would pose a problem but should be able to over come it.

You dont have to make it exactly like an original. As long as you have a thermostat and the same restriction/flow rate. Get creative.....

Over the years I have seen a couple of them done and posted on the web.
Last one I saw was the kid whos dad owned their own machine shop and was building some wild 304. Even posted pics. Never heard anything after the first couple of post.

This was the web site but even it went down.

http://www.slplayerz.com/Rian/scout_engine.html

I've been wanting to build one for a few years, but just never get around to it. :)

Wanna build me a tunnel-ram for my 304? :D

One big concern for me was the coolant in the intake. Can't just plug the side to side (head to head) coolant - you have to actually route that coolant somewhere and then build a new thermostat setup. That seems to be the biggest hurdle.

I'm sure I could do it. As far as the thermostat, you could simply use a SBC thermostat housing, they are readily available, many with swivel necks, so it can be used anywhere. If nothing else you could simply make a flange for the IH neck and weld it on to a tube basically, that would run from head to head.

If your going to take the time and effort make one, make a MPI lower so you can bolt on a off the shelf Ford upper. Carbs are dead and MPI EFI is the way to go!

http://holley.com/data/products/pictures/large300-75S.jpg

http://www.detomaso.nu/~thomast/efi/trick-flow.jpeg

Ford come on now! I would use the TPI off a Chevy!:flipoff2:

Fabricating one up would not be that hard. Getting your ideas translated into a design, that takes a little more effort. If you build one, the first one always takes the longest, looks the worst, and causes the most headaches. Keep your eye on the coolant flow, to much and to little can both cause problems. If I was going to be around I'd help you do it myself just for shits and giggles.:D

Man I got to many ideas and not enough time! I miss being single!

But my problem is the welding. If I welded it would work but look shitty!

....it would work but look shitty!

Yet another indisputable fact of a true 4x4....

Thats ok. You'll get better at it. Besides, if your not happy with the way it works, you wont feel so bad when you shit can it :D

Ford come on now! I would use the TPI off a Chevy!:flipoff2:
The only worth taking off a chebby is on a K30 and it was made by DANA!:flipoff2:

The only worth taking off a chebby is on a K30 and it was made by DANA!:flipoff2:

Yikes! Thats some built up anger you got going on there Old Scout.

I guess its a good thing your a moderator for the Scout forum and not the Chevy forum :flipoff2:

Chris

The IH intake is quite different internally than most other makes. The guys who make intakes for a living when they were making the aluminum intakes said they never seen shit like this before. Has mostly do do with the way the coolant flows thru the intake from front to back and across if that makes sense.
________
SexyJ cam (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/SexyJ)

The IH intake is quite different internally than most other makes. The guys who make intakes for a living when they were making the aluminum intakes said they never seen shit like this before. Has mostly do do with the way the coolant flows thru the intake from front to back and across if that makes sense.

A OK :confused:




j/k :D

Over the years I have seen a couple of them done and posted on the web.
Last one I saw was the kid whos dad owned their own machine shop and was building some wild 304. Even posted pics. Never heard anything after the first couple of post.

This was the web site but even it went down.

http://www.slplayerz.com/Rian/scout_engine.html
Kinda looked like a tunnel ram? I wondered whatever happened to that project.

(I started this project in January 2008.. it was going to be a surprise when I finished it up, but since I haven't.. here's at least as far as I took it)

For years, I've been contemplating a sheetmetal intake for my race 304. No one made a 304 4bbl (the IH Only (http://www.ihonly.com) does now) so I thought I should build a sheetmetal tunnel ram for it.

Blair Howze kept encouraging me.. and then one day said "I'm coming up to help" to kick me in the tail to get going on it.

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40557-2/dcp_0158.jpg
We started with some 3x1/4 or so flat bar.

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40564-2/dcp_0160.jpg

Which then was drilled to mount to the intake side of the head.

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40567-2/dcp_0161.jpg
http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40573-2/dcp_0163.jpg
http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40576-2/dcp_0164.jpg

I drug in a spare 304 block and put some heads on..

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40585-2/dcp_0167.jpg

I had some firring strips handy which turned out to fit nicely into the intake ports - we thought we could use these to help hold the square tube intake runners in place during assembly.

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40588-2/dcp_0168.jpg

I used my plasma cutter to rough out the holes for the intake - note that the exhaust crossover passage wasn't cut out - and that's on purpose to keep the intake cooler.

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40591-2/dcp_0169.jpg

We spent the rest of the DAY with the die-grinder cleaning up the holes for both plates.

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40597-2/dcp_0171.jpg
http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40609-2/dcp_0175.jpg
http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40645-2/dcp_0187.jpg

The plates were bolted to the heads and then some mock-up square tube was grabbed (before the thin-wall started getting cut)..

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40651-2/dcp_0189.jpg
http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40657-2/dcp_0191.jpg

Some 1x2 rectangle tube was mitre cut for the water crossover tubes and test fit. I wanted to use the 1x2 water stuff as the start of the structural part of the intake, so the whole bottom "V" would be strong and stout.

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40660-2/dcp_0192.jpg

Then my real problems began..

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40679-2/01_21_08_2323.jpg

This doesn't look so bad, until you realize the front two runners need to be put in place, and by doing so, they go right over (barely) the top of the water crossover (which also needs a front-to-back (cut and laying on the valley pan) tube). Still not a big deal, except we need to get a thermostat housing in. The stock intake puts it "back" a bit, over the valley pan.. right where the front runners are.

There's also a bit of a problem with the plenum being rather long front to back, which would probably result in poor fuel distribution to the front/rear cylinders with the centers being rich.

I cut another batch of runners that are all angle cut, to bring them into a more central location, more ideal for a single carb setup, but I still had the same problem with the thermostat housing.

I wanted to build a mount that would take the stock (heavy, cast iron) thermostat housing, so I wouldn't have to redesign much of the IH cooling system, but the whole thing is just "so big". Blair lobbied for a 351W thermostat housing, but I don't have any of those lying around, and then there's hose sizing and fitment issues.

The result was.. I quit.

I might get back to this again, but we're building a bigger SV for the new racer, so the hot little race-304 probably won't see much development effort any more. ;)

What I have learned...

Draw up the intake gaskets in CAD and send them to some place like e-machineshop and have them made. Save yourself a full day of air compressor abuse and die-grinding.

Then I think I'd try for a full on tunnel ram - high rise. I ran out of thin-wall square tubing and didn't have enough left for "round 3" of this project, but if I did, I might've tried for the ~15" (IIRC) runner length I calculated I wanted/needed for a tuned-tunnel-ram for the RPM range I wanted, and just make it tall!

This would help with my thermostat housing problem by moving the entire intake plenum and runners up-up-and-away from the thermostat area.

I might also be inclined to weld bungs to the intake plates and just use braided stainless hose for the water jacket, instead of my angle-cut 1x2 rectangular tube. It was going to get ugly when I cut the two 1x2s for the front to back installation and then cut the front of the front one out to build the shallow/wide thermostat housing mount.

Photo Gallery (http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/postnuke/index.php?module=mGallery2&g2_itemId=40554&g2_highlightId=40677)

Here are some ideas to "borrow"

http://www.hogansracingmanifolds.com/index.aspx

we spent the rest of the day with the die-grinder cleaning up the holes for both plates.

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40597-2/dcp_0171.jpg
http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40609-2/dcp_0175.jpg
http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40645-2/dcp_0187.jpg

the plates were bolted to the heads and then some mock-up square tube was grabbed (before the thin-wall started getting cut)..

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40651-2/dcp_0189.jpg
http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40657-2/dcp_0191.jpg

some 1x2 rectangle tube was mitre cut for the water crossover tubes and test fit. I wanted to use the 1x2 water stuff as the start of the structural part of the intake, so the whole bottom "v" would be strong and stout.

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40660-2/dcp_0192.jpg

then my real problems began..

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40679-2/01_21_08_2323.jpg

this doesn't look so bad, until you realize the front two runners need to be put in place, and by doing so, they go right over (barely) the top of the water crossover (which also needs a front-to-back (cut and laying on the valley pan) tube). Still not a big deal, except we need to get a thermostat housing in. The stock intake puts it "back" a bit, over the valley pan.. Right where the front runners are.

There's also a bit of a problem with the plenum being rather long front to back, which would probably result in poor fuel distribution to the front/rear cylinders with the centers being rich.

I cut another batch of runners that are all angle cut, to bring them into a more central location, more ideal for a single carb setup, but i still had the same problem with the thermostat housing.

I wanted to build a mount that would take the stock (heavy, cast iron) thermostat housing, so i wouldn't have to redesign much of the ih cooling system, but the whole thing is just "so big". Blair lobbied for a 351w thermostat housing, but i don't have any of those lying around, and then there's hose sizing and fitment issues.

The result was.. I quit.

I might get back to this again, but we're building a bigger sv for the new racer, so the hot little race-304 probably won't see much development effort any more. ;)

what i have learned...

Draw up the intake gaskets in cad and send them to some place like e-machineshop and have them made. Save yourself a full day of air compressor abuse and die-grinding.

Then i think i'd try for a full on tunnel ram - high rise. I ran out of thin-wall square tubing and didn't have enough left for "round 3" of this project, but if i did, i might've tried for the ~15" (iirc) runner length i calculated i wanted/needed for a tuned-tunnel-ram for the rpm range i wanted, and just make it tall!

This would help with my thermostat housing problem by moving the entire intake plenum and runners up-up-and-away from the thermostat area.

I might also be inclined to weld bungs to the intake plates and just use braided stainless hose for the water jacket, instead of my angle-cut 1x2 rectangular tube. It was going to get ugly when i cut the two 1x2s for the front to back installation and then cut the front of the front one out to build the shallow/wide thermostat housing mount.

photo gallery (http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/postnuke/index.php?module=mgallery2&g2_itemid=40554&g2_highlightid=40677)

R




:flipoff2:

One big concern for me was the coolant in the intake. Can't just plug the side to side (head to head) coolant - you have to actually route that coolant somewhere and then build a new thermostat setup. That seems to be the biggest hurdle.


Its called AN-12 fittings and hose. Also use a stand-alone Thermostat housing like I use on my Blown BBC. If both of these components work very well on my 490 ci Blown engine, a puny 304 will never tax them! :flipoff2:

Thought about this project myself ... no time for experiments though.

Have you guys put any figures into runner length and tuning the CSA (cross sectional area) and come out with approximate runner IDs at the plenum and at the head?

i.e.
you might also be able to use some of this info...

Average_CSA = Port_Volume_CC / (Port_CenterLine_Length * 16.387)

Port_Volume_CC = Average_CSA * Port_CenterLine_Length * 16.387

Port_CenterLine_Length = Port_Volume_CC / ( Average_CSA *16.387 )

FPS = ( Flow_CFM * 2.4 ) / Average_CSA

Flow_CFM = Average_CSA * FPS * .4166667

Average_CSA = ( Flow_CFM * 2.4) / FPS

Assuming 85% VE, you can use this formula to determine how much air your engine will need:
CID * RPM / 3456 * 0.85 = ENGINE AIR REQUIREMENT

To find the size of CSA to compute all of the above info...
(Bore x Bore x Stroke x RPM x 0.00353) x 614


Also just decided to stick to TBI and save this for MPFI in the distant future. but still an interesting subject.

Why would you want to make a non heated sheet metal intake for a IH? Typical sheet metal intake is intended for performance at high RPMs. How high are you goint to wind up that corn binder? Yes it can be done but for most I think it would hurt performance more than help..

Why would you want to make a non heated sheet metal intake for a IH? Typical sheet metal intake is intended for performance at high RPMs. How high are you goint to wind up that corn binder? Yes it can be done but for most I think it would hurt performance more than help..

Well, until last year, I was winding it to 6300rpm and holding it there. That's the point the valves floated (I thought the cam quit).

After last winter's overhaul, the machine shop "helped me out" and put some "better" valve springs in.. and I can't crack 5,000rpm with their "improved" "heavier" springs. :mad:

I should pull 'em back out and put the BBC LS6 springs back in.

If I build a tuned-runner tunnel-ram, it'd be for ~5,000rpm operation. That's where I would spend most of my time, between 4 and 6.

Its called AN-12 fittings and hose. Also use a stand-alone Thermostat housing like I use on my Blown BBC. If both of these components work very well on my 490 ci Blown engine, a puny 304 will never tax them! :flipoff2:

Part number or mfg for the stand-alone T'stat? SummitRacing isn't very helpful on a search..

Ahh.. wait.. INLINE THERMOSTAT HOUSING.

Here we go.

MEZ-WN0072 Meziere Inline Thermostat Assemblies (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MEZ-WN0072&N=700+4294924500+4294839037+115&autoview=sku)
Thermostat Housing; Hi-Flow Inline Thermostat Housing Assembly; 1 1/2 in. Hose - 1 1/2 in. Hose

$68.

Then I just need to come out of the intake water jacket to a hose fitting / nipple that I can hook a hose up to, put this inline in the upper radiator hose, and take the outlet and dump it into the top of the water pump.

Maybe it's a good thing I haven't kicked the 304 block back outside (and out of my way) and there's still the runners cut and sitting there..

Thanks, Shadowman.

This is what I use.
BDS-1400 EXTERNAL THERMOSTAT HOUSING POLISHED
http://www.goodvibesracing.com/Blower_Manifolds.htm

Come off the manifold plate with some an-12 and plumb it to housing. The housing has 3/8' bolt hole bosses in it so you can attach a bracket to it and then mount it anywhere.


I would imagine some thin square wall tubing could be found for the runners and then a plenum could easily be fabbed.

On a related note, I actually did some in depth investigating and found a aluminum head, that is NOT IH, that appears to me would work on an IH engine with obvious modifications. The main thing is, the bore spacing is the same for the chambers as on an IH engine along with other critical aspects.
No, it is not a direct bolt on, but did look entirely feasible to me. It is a upcoming project that I have planned in the future. That is another reason why I too have anticipated the building of a custom SMI also.

We spent the rest of the DAY with the die-grinder cleaning up the holes for both plates.


http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/40645-2/dcp_0187.jpg
]



yikes! for someone with a machine shop,, they dont seem to be very good at it :eek:

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/1029/turbo0119xm.jpg




building an intake for a IH mill is a waste of time! the factory one flows plenty good enough. Just force the fuel/air mix in! its not that hard and not that expensive

yikes! for someone with a machine shop,, they dont seem to be very good at it :eek:


That was done with my plasma cutter and a die-grinder.. if I had to do it again, I'd just give an intake gasket to a machinist and come back later when it's ready. :D

building an intake for a IH mill is a waste of time! the factory one flows plenty good enough. Just force the fuel/air mix in! its not that hard and not that expensive

But a sheetmetal intake is LIGHTER. :D

That was done with my plasma cutter and a die-grinder.. if I had to do it again, I'd just give an intake gasket to a machinist and come back later when it's ready. :D



But a sheetmetal intake is LIGHTER. :D


hahaha fare enough :laughing:

That was done with my plasma cutter and a die-grinder.. if I had to do it again, I'd just give an intake gasket to a machinist and come back later when it's ready. :D



But a sheetmetal intake is LIGHTER. :D


yes, because shaving a few pounds off the intake is totally going to counter act the 5 tons the block weighs.

yes, because shaving a few pounds off the intake is totally going to counter act the 5 tons the block weighs.

:laughing::laughing: That is what I was thinking.

:laughing::laughing: That is what I was thinking.

It is just like a savings account. Put in (or take off) a little at a time and it adds (subtracts) up!

yes, because shaving a few pounds off the intake is totally going to counter act the 5 tons the block weighs.

Also, think about application and where the weight is being removed from. It's a race truck and weight is being removed from the top of the engine. Every little bit helps.:flipoff2: