Setting up my new 79 HP 60 when I get back from Iraq, what is a good pinion angle and castor (caster?) angle?

And what exactly is castor angle? I know how to set pinion angle, and isn't castor angle adjusted by using shims?

From what I understoiod, castor angle sounded a lot lot Acerman angle, am I way off?

Oh, boy. This is gonna get the 'death wobble' flame throwers going.

Anyway. Caster is not the same as ackerman. I'm not a front end alignment specialist, but I'm certain others that are will chime in. You have caster, camber, toe-in(out), and ackerman to consider when setting up a front end. All are different things. Some things are easily changed or adjusted, some are more 'permanently' (welded) set.

Putting 'shims' under the spring perches on the front axle will change the caster (in addition to changing the pinion angle). It is not the 'correct' way to do it. The correct method is to cut, rotate to the correct caster angle, and reweld the knuckles once the pinion angle is set.

I've gotta go get the Halon bottle right now.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry

OK, I read a lot, cleared up some confusion. The article said 3-5 degree caster, but I've heard 7, whats better for offroading? Also, I have 6" of lift, whats a good front pinion angle? 12 ish?

unless you are going to remove the knuckles to adjust caster it will be determined by your pinion angle. The caster and pinion all ready have a relative relationship from the factory. Postive caster also refered to as trailing caster would see the the knuckle rotated with the top part back towards the transmission automaticaly sending the bottom part forward past the centre point of the axle leading to stability if not done in excess.

here is a great link

http://home.tiscali.be/be067749/58/c3/index.htm

OK, I read a lot, cleared up some confusion. The article said 3-5 degree caster, but I've heard 7, whats better for offroading? Also, I have 6" of lift, whats a good front pinion angle? 12 ish?


your pinion angle depends on your drive shaft, are you going to be running a double cardan or not? if so then your pinion has to point directly at your front transfercase output, minus a couple of degrees is best - THEN check your castor, if your lucky you will still have enough castor left where you dont have to cut and rotate your C's. being that its a high pinion i would like to say you will be in the ballpark but then again its hard to say until you set it under the jeep with the weight sitting on it.

if your not running a double cardan then your pinion should be at the same angle as your transfercase output shaft.

read this,, http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/driveline/

I don't know what Driveshaft I'll be using up front. Any good recomendations? High Angle Driveline has those 1 ton CVs, but those thing could run me 1K for front/rear.

I still don't know what shaft to use on my rear either, I'm going to a SYE, so it'll be some sort of Double Cardan, but I don't know who to get it from. Anyone used someone they'd recommend or a certain style they'd recommend?



Edit: I'm not really sure what U Joints Im running either. Should be a 1350 in the front right? Is it the same for the rear? (Dana 60s from a 79 F250)

if your running a 60 in the front with manual hubs you wont need a cv shaft in there. the reason for the cv shaft in the front on factory vehicles is for excess vibes because the front driveline continuesly turns @ the same rate of speed as if it were engaged in 4 wheel drive, once you have manual hubs the front DS will turn but not near as fast and im shure you wont care about a slight vibration if there is one after proper setup.

If I shorten my driver side axle about 4 inches, then it'll throw off my pinion offset, so I'll need the CV then, so I should probably just grab one now. Anyone worked with Tom Woods? I like they're prices, but I haven't heard people rave about them like I have High Angle Driveline...

If I shorten my driver side axle about 4 inches, then it'll throw off my pinion offset, so I'll need the CV then, so I should probably just grab one now. Anyone worked with Tom Woods? I like they're prices, but I haven't heard people rave about them like I have High Angle Driveline...
Huh?:confused:
Why in the world would you shorten the drivers side of HP60 4"?
Why are you talking about pinion and castor angle before you've mocked up your drivetrain? You have no idea what your relative pinion to castor angles will be before you determine things like ride height, wheelbase, static drivetrain angle and then you'll have to deal with interferences like exhaust and transmission pans. Given the items above you may or maynot even have the need for a CV style shaft.
Do not make the mistake of grabbing some arbitrary angles of a website and having a housing modified/fabbed up our you will be paying for that job twice.
Not trying to be a dick, just research some more and don't piss your money away.

Sorry, meant to say passenger side. Why would I need to mock up my drivetrain? All I need to know is what pinion angle keeps the caster within reason. Such as "Well, when I set mine up, I had X* pinion angle, so my caster was X*, so it worked great"

Those aren't "Arbitrary numbers off a website" those are relative numbers that are the same for all 78-79 dana 60s, one of the most common axle swap axles, so most people who have swapped them should know.

I never asked if I need a CV, I'm getting one because my pinion will be too far offset, and i don't like swapping U Joints once a week. I simply stated the idea, and verified my reasoning when someone said I might not need it.

I'm not getting these numbers, then going home and cutting by what they say, I'm seeing what they think or what they've seen work, then putting that as an idea of where to start. thanks for adding nothing to the thread, go hang yourself. :eek:

1) Sorry, meant to say passenger side.
2) Why would I need to mock up my drivetrain? All I need to know is what pinion angle keeps the caster within reason. Such as "Well, when I set mine up, I had X* pinion angle, so my caster was X*, so it worked great"

3) Those aren't "Arbitrary numbers off a website" those are relative numbers that are the same for all 78-79 dana 60s, one of the most common axle swap axles, so most people who have swapped them should know.

4) I never asked if I need a CV, I'm getting one because my pinion will be too far offset, and i don't like swapping U Joints once a week. I simply stated the idea, and verified my reasoning when someone said I might not need it.

5) I'm not getting these numbers, then going home and cutting by what they say, I'm seeing what they think or what they've seen work, then putting that as an idea of where to start. thanks for adding nothing to the thread, go hang yourself. :eek:

1) That actually makes sense.
2) To determine what your existing pinion angle is in relation to that of the front output of the transfercase. Until you mock this up you have no idea whether or not you can move the pinion up or down. Spring configuration, and shackle length and positioning will directly affect this. Is this new axle going to go in the stock position? Stretching wheelbase? What kind of rig are you putting it in? Regardless of whether you use shims(probably get away with 1 to 3 degrees) or cut and turn (better fix) you won't know what works in your rig until it's mocked up. With a custom axle install pinion angle is vehicle specific. Castor has been debated alot but 4 to 7 degrees seems to work for most rigs.
3)"those are relative numbers that are the same for all 78-79 dana 60s", Yes in original trim those numbers are the same, also known as "stock" settings requiring no "setup" at all. Not sure where you were going there.
4) How could you possibly know what your pinion offset is, much less that it would exceed a given u-joints capability? Lots of guys here running considerable offsets even on the rear shaft and only running u-joints.
5) You haven't posted anywhere near enough info to get what you need. As I said above I wasn't trying to be a dick (just have a natural talent I guess).
6) I'll take the suicide offer under advisement:flipoff2:

Was wondering when someone would set him straight, LCAC. I started reading this earlier and there was so much misinformation I couldn't even organize my thoughts...I just quit and went on to something else.

His profile says he has an 02 TJ so I,m guessing he's using coils not leaf springs?

Its really not that hard... I asked 2 questions, whats a good pinion angle and caster? and I asked what is caster, because the explanation I got of ackerman was way off, they were describing caster, and someone asnwered that right off. So really, the only thing I wanted, was a good pinion angle that would keep the caster reasonable.

I dont care what my set up is, I dont care what clearance issues I have. I know what shaft I'm going to be using, I wasn't asking what kind of shaft to use, just what what companies people have used. I dont care about streching it, or shackle length (Especially as Cacti pointed out, it is a TJ) I dont care how other people driveshafts work for them. I dont care what information I've given, I gave plenty in my first post for what I wanted. I do care if you kill yourself, that was meant more for dispersal than a suicide offering, Just slap yourself and we'll call it even. I can figure the rest out when I get there, for now, I just want to know the answer to the question I asked.

If you don't know the answer, don't give an answer. You spent half the post saying why I was wrong, and I never was. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT PINION ANGLE AND CASTER ANGLE IS GOOD WITH A HP60, WHAT HAVE PEOPLE USED?

I asked if 12* pinion angle was to much and would throw off my caster, If you run 12* and your caster is fine, answer back, "NO, IT'LL BE FINE"

If you run 12* pinion angle and had to rotate knuckles to keep your caster from being screwed up, anwer, "DON'T DO IT, IT SCREWED UP MY CASTER"

If you have no idea, answer back, "I'm a dumbass and leaving right now"

Now, whats your answer to my question?

OK, I run a 12* pinion angle and it is fine...or not. The point is it doesn't fawking matter what I run, it matters in YOUR setup. Every single one is different, ya see? Ya have to do one of two things:

1. In your assembled housing, set up for proper caster (5 to 7* positive) and see if you can work with the pinion angle that you end up with, or

2. Strip off the C's, set up for the pinion angle you want and then set your caster by pressing the C's back on, and adjusting them to where you like and welding them.

LCAC was constructive and trying to help, you're being an ass.

Eat a bowl of dicks.:flipoff2:

Now, whats your answer to my question?
That you find a shop that has a clue what's important. You clearly don't.

does anyone know what the stock castor is on a high pinion 60? i have a 88 kingpin 60 that i have not removed the knuckles yet and havnt been about to figure it out on my own..

If he wanted to help, he would've either given me an answer, or showed a way to get the answer. saying I dont know what I'm talking about isn't constructive.

I told you, I dont care what setup I have or you have, what is your caster with you pinion angle. I got your pinion angle and that your caster is workable, which is good enough for me. I've already calculated that optimum pinion angle is 12*, as I said. Since that worked for you without rotating your knuckles, now I have a stating point. See? I never said, tell me the answer now and I'll start cutting, I asked what sounds good, and I can go from there.

Thank you, I gave the bowl of dicks to your sister, merry christmas :flipoff2:

does anyone know what the stock castor is on a high pinion 60? i have a 88 kingpin 60 that i have not removed the knuckles yet and havnt been about to figure it out on my own..
Mine was 4 degrees, it's a couple years older (1985), not sure if they made any changes. Set it to 7 degrees after I narrowed it.