After fighting problems with the rear axle again, it's time to get beefy. I got a 14 bolt w/detroit and 4.56 in trade for some future sweat and fab work on my brothers rig. I also picked up a clean dana 300 from Slim in Clayton, Ok.
I plan to adapt the sm420 to the dana 300 with Novak adapter.Any of you guys running this tranny/tcase set up behind the 2f ? If so, are there any problems I need to look out for? I already modified the shift rail in the 300 to allow front digs in hi or low without allowing front hi, rear low at same time or front low, rear hi at same time. I need another stock shifter for a dana 300 if any of you have one laying around.
I have been reading up on shaving a couple of inches off of the 14 bolt and welding a thick plate of steel back in but am a bit leary of welding carbon to cast. Anyone heard of any problems with doing this?
Some of the mods that I know I have to make are:
cut 6 lug centers from humv wheels and weld in 8 lug centers
cut crossmember from behind tcase and build new one for dana 300
lengthen and reyoke the front driveshaft
make or buy new rear driveshaft
build new skid plate
shave 14 bolt
regear front axle for 4.56
make/modify twin stick shifters so I can reach them while harnessed in.
Future plans are to put Lomax 4:1 gears and upgraded shafts in the 300, but I cant dump that much $$ right now.
I will gladly trade 2 humv wheels with 6 lug centers for 2 stock humv wheels if anyone is interested:grinpimp:

so you are gonna do 6 bolt front and 8 bolt rear axles??

Yeah, for now. I am running longfields up front and havent had any problems. I also am running 4x4 labs hi steer with ARP studs and 2'' ram assist. Future plans may lead me to a dana 60 but not yet.

Instead of cutting out the centers, why don't you get some new hummer rims? Seems like a waste to cut out the 6 lug centers.

rustyb - email or pm me about that front 60 thing. I might be able to help you out brotha!

Instead of cutting out the centers, why don't you get some new hummer rims? Seems like a waste to cut out the 6 lug centers.
I said that I will trade for a pair of stock humv wheels in the original post if anyone is interested. You lookin to trade?:grinpimp:

rustyb - email or pm me about that front 60 thing. I might be able to help you out brotha!
you've got mail.:)

I said that I will trade for a pair of stock humv wheels in the original post if anyone is interested. You lookin to trade?:grinpimp:

Nope, I don't have an humv rims.... :D

so you are gonna do 6 bolt front and 8 bolt rear axles??

Not a big deal to run this combo if you got a spare to cover both patterns:

Thats a pretty nifty wheel for a spare :smokin:

yeah, that is pretty slick for a spare. Whats it off of? I curruntly have no spare at all so the different bolt pattern makes no difference. Even when I do get a spare, it will most likely be left at the tow vehicle. Due to a recent offer, the front may be 8 lug sooner than expected anyhow.:smokin:

Get it Rusty!

How wide is the 14B?

Go ahead and do the D60 while you are in there :)

the 14 b is 67'' but I think I can get my hands on some dually hubs and drop it back to 63''. I was reading up on Medusa's truggy project. He cut the front d60 to 64.5 wms. If I get the d60, this would possibly be the way to go. Still way to early in the game to make any decisions on that though.

Yea tight ass ,get the 60:flipoff2: JT

Yea tight ass ,get the 60:flipoff2: JT

Quit typing and get to fabbing you "Coon-Billy"

Another vote for a D60 front..... :flipoff2:

I got real lucky and came across a guy who has a bunch of humv wheels he won a bid on. I picked up 5 of them last night, all with magnesium run flats and 1 wth a good tire for a spare. That saves me a lot of labor on cutting out my 6 lug centers. I may even have a buyer for the 6 luggers already.:smokin:

I am currently running a 2''x8'' stroke psc ram stroked down to 7'' for my cruiser steering. If I run a d60 front will this ram be long enough to handle the steering range of it? I am assuming the ram can easily be converted back to 8'' stroke. :confused:

You'll want the 8" stroke back for the d60. That's what I run on mine and it's just about right.:D

You want 8" stroke for a D60.

We're going to need a 35% warning soon, I feel!

right now the ram has a 7'' stroke. I dont know what the guys at psc do to the internals of the cylinder to reduce the 8'' stroke to 7'', but hopefully it's easy to return it to 8''. I will call them tomorrow to see.

right now the ram has a 7'' stroke. I dont know what the guys at psc do to the internals of the cylinder to reduce the 8'' stroke to 7'', but hopefully it's easy to return it to 8''. I will call them tomorrow to see.

They install a spacer to limit the stroke. If it was an 8" originally, it will be easy to get your 1 incher back.... :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Rusty,

Looks like if you do the D60, you will have to re-gear at least one of your axles.

Since you don't have the $$ to spend on upgrading the D300 to 32 spline, you should go ahead and gear the axles low up front (D60 gears are cheap) and take some of the strain off the drivetrain.

I would shoot for 5.89-6.17 This will take a lot of stress off the tcase.

This is what I have been dealing with on my buggy. I have 4.11's and keep breaking Tcase parts. Friends I have running non-upgraded toy cases with steep axle gears are not breaking at all. (Mace and Lance Morin)

Anyway, gears are MUCH less expensive for Dana stuff, hell, you could even find used gears I am sure. I think Military D60/14bolt stuff is 6.17.

Rusty,

Looks like if you do the D60, you will have to re-gear at least one of your axles.

Since you don't have the $$ to spend on upgrading the D300 to 32 spline, you should go ahead and gear the axles low up front (D60 gears are cheap) and take some of the strain off the drivetrain.

I would shoot for 5.89-6.17 This will take a lot of stress off the tcase.

This is what I have been dealing with on my buggy. I have 4.11's and keep breaking Tcase parts. Friends I have running non-upgraded toy cases with steep axle gears are not breaking at all. (Mace and Lance Morin)

Anyway, gears are MUCH less expensive for Dana stuff, hell, you could even find used gears I am sure. I think Military D60/14bolt stuff is 6.17.

What are you smokin this AM Grogan?:smokin: CUCV (military) 60/14 bolt are almost all 456's which is what he has in his 14 bolt now. Should be a no brainer to find a set of 456's for the d60 and he is set. I agree with the need to address the strain issues somehow but regearing both ends that low would be some $$$. What size tires are you planning to run Rustyb?

I would go with 4.56 gears for now. Just replace the front with a used set. I would spend any extra money left over on some decent front d60 axle shafts/ujoints and/or drive slugs.

SM420 x D300 x 4.56 = 83.6 crawl ratio.
7.05 x 2.6 x 4.56

83.6: 1 crawl ratio should be fine for now.

I would re-consider going to 4:1 gears in the D300... By the time you go to 4:1 gears, upgrade the outputs, you'll be at least 75% the cost of an Stak 2 speed which are $1900.
Not to mention the fact that the D300 will never be as strong as a Stak or an Atlas tcase. You could get real lucky and buy a used Atlas for 1500 to 1700.

I'm swapping a 60 into the rear in place of the 14 bolt and already have a 60 in front. I am regearing both axles to 6.17's so he can use my 4.56's from the front, if dodge and chevy gears are interchangeble...

The 14 bolt has 4.56s now and I think it can only go down to 5.18 max. This is the reason I am getting the 14 bolt. My brother(brbiggs) is swapping in a rear dana 60 and running 6.17s I think. Since he is doing this, I will get the 4.56s from his front axle, if the deal works out with me getting the dana 60 front:D For now, I am gonna have to stick with the 38s I've been running but will likely go to 40s when I have to.
I called PSC today and found out, like fj40charles said, they just put a donut over the shaft inside the cylinder and set screw it in place so it should be a simple task to get my inch back:flipoff2:

I would go with 4.56 gears for now. Just replace the front with a used set. I would spend any extra money left over on some decent front d60 axle shafts/ujoints and/or drive slugs.

SM420 x D300 x 4.56 = 83.6 crawl ratio.
7.05 x 2.6 x 4.56

83.6: 1 crawl ratio should be fine for now.

I would re-consider going to 4:1 gears in the D300... By the time you go to 4:1 gears, upgrade the outputs, you'll be at least 75% the cost of an Stak 2 speed which are $1900.
Not to mention the fact that the D300 will never be as strong as a Stak or an Atlas tcase. You could get real lucky and buy a used Atlas for 1500 to 1700.
You may be right about finding a used Stak for around $1500 or more, but that will still leave me paying shipping on that sucker and buying another adapter which would put me over $2000 easily. For about $1100 I can get both shafts upgraded and 4:1 gears from Lomax,IIRC

Lowest gear for a 14 bolt is 5.38... Glad you got your 1 incher back.:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I know someone selling a SM420/Dana300 setup.. It is all bolted together. Let me know if you need info....

Also, I'll have a Detroit locker for a D60 (35 spline) available soon if you need one.... Going to an ARB locker in the front of my juck.

Lowest gear for a 14 bolt is 5.38... Glad you got your 1 incher back.:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I know someone selling a SM420/Dana300 setup.. It is all bolted together. Let me know if you need info....

Also, I'll have a Detroit locker for a D60 (35 spline) available soon if you need one.... Going to an ARB locker in the front of my juck.

you've got mail:D

Yeah I am on crack, 14bolts only go to 5.38 I think and that is recent, 5.14 is the deepest gear widely available.

I don't think Rusty needs the lower gears in the axle for crawl ratio, it is to take the stress off the unmodified D300.

looking forward to wheeling with rusty version 2.0!!!!! i think i'm gonna have to start counting the days pretty soon. is your bro coming with you again?

:beer:

looking forward to wheeling with rusty version 2.0!!!!! i think i'm gonna have to start counting the days pretty soon. is your bro coming with you again?

:beer:

Rusty needs to make sure he brings a helmet this time just in case he rolls his junk in the campground.... :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Rusty needs to make sure he brings a helmet this time just in case he rolls his junk in the campground.... :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I have no recollection of any such thing happening:goofball:

Hey George, Brandon will be there with me, hopefully with his rig ready to wheel.

Yeah I am on crack, 14bolts only go to 5.38 I think and that is recent, 5.14 is the deepest gear widely available.

I don't think Rusty needs the lower gears in the axle for crawl ratio, it is to take the stress off the unmodified D300.

Depending on how much if any $$ is left over after most of the build up is done, I will upgrade the D300 shafts.

Well, I got a chance to do a little work on the rig. We got a rear 60 for bro's rig, and pulled his/my 14 bolt from the blazer. I cut the shock brackets off and made a short, futile attempt to gently cut the spring perches off to use them again:mad3: We yanked the cruiser axle out and started fabbing up for the 14 bolt. I have the 14 bolt under the rig now and am waiting for the novak adapter to show up before I weld the perches in place.

I gutted the cruiser housing to get usable parts out to sell. I found 3 of the 4 .250'' dia. pins in the lockrite sheared in half. The funny thing is that the pin that survived was a pin that I made out of a screwdriver shaft this year at Katemcy. Anyone need a slightly used lockrite:flipoff2: or a set of poly performance rear axles? pm or email me.

If/when the 60 front shows up, I have to make the decision on whether or not to do a shackle reversal. I am not going to narrow the axle, so outboarding the springs will be necessary. The only downside I have had with the shackles up front is approach angle. Other than that, I like the way it performs. The downside I can see with doing the shackle reversal is needing long travel splines on the driveshaft to keep it from unplugging. If I were to do a reversal, I would want the spring hangers mounted up close to the frame instead of having drop down hangers. That would defeat my purpose of doing it in the first place. Any thoughts or suggestions ?

DO NOT reverse the shackles.

Too many downsides (long slip shaft, axle wrap, axle push) versus just slamming those shackles into a rock or two.....

Non reverse is good enough for trail. Reversed rides nicer:grinpimp: and lets you spend a lot of money on trick front drive shafts.... leafs just suck.

People do not take into account that your $1500 modded D300 will probabaly shift like shit, pop out of gear, and make really foul noises, stock or modified.

My stocker pops out of low (lots of fun on Hells Revenge) and limits me to 55mph because of the foul noises. LowMax makes really nice parts, but a few friends with ultimate D300's have shitty shifting, loud D300's. Also, I am not sure on that dump truck tranny, but the Atlas may be big enough that you don't need to screw with a 2 piece shaft when it is clocked, while a 300 probably will....

DO NOT reverse the shackles.

Too many downsides (long slip shaft, axle wrap, axle push) versus just slamming those shackles into a rock or two.....

That's pretty much how I feel about it also, and until I can be convinced otherwise that is how it is gonna stay.

Non reverse is good enough for trail. Reversed rides nicer:grinpimp: and lets you spend a lot of money on trick front drive shafts.... leafs just suck.

People do not take into account that your $1500 modded D300 will probabaly shift like shit, pop out of gear, and make really foul noises, stock or modified.

My stocker pops out of low (lots of fun on Hells Revenge) and limits me to 55mph because of the foul noises. LowMax makes really nice parts, but a few friends with ultimate D300's have shitty shifting, loud D300's. Also, I am not sure on that dump truck tranny, but the Atlas may be big enough that you don't need to screw with a 2 piece shaft when it is clocked, while a 300 probably will....

It would have to scream like a bitch to override the noises from the tranny, and at 55mph I think more foul noises would be coming from me:grinpimp: . I have read where Lomax ,I think, has a set of heavy duty detent springs to help keep the tcase from popping out of gear. I guess we will see.:)

That's pretty much how I feel about it also, and until I can be convinced otherwise that is how it is gonna stay.
I never did a SR on mine. And never saw any reason to. Rode just as nice as everybody elses that had a SR

People do not take into account that your $1500 modded D300 will probabaly shift like shit, pop out of gear, and make really foul noises, stock or modified.

My stocker pops out of low (lots of fun on Hells Revenge) and limits me to 55mph because of the foul noises. LowMax makes really nice parts, but a few friends with ultimate D300's have shitty shifting, loud D300's. Also, I am not sure on that dump truck tranny, but the Atlas may be big enough that you don't need to screw with a 2 piece shaft when it is clocked, while a 300 probably will....


Methinks you need to find someone else to do your transfercase work.... :flipoff2:

FWIW my dana300 shifts fine, dosent make noise and is fine over 55mph... Of course the cruiser makes so much other noise I may not be able to hear anything at that speed either.... :D

Im into my dana about 1300 with Lomax gears, 32spine outputs and a drive flange from Jess..... Dont do like I did and go the 4:1 gearset without upgrading the outputs..... I broke mine with a 2f, 36's and a light foot....


Cruiser looks good! Hopefully will be able to wheel with you at Katemcy....


Nice to see some more White Trash over here:beer: :beer: :beer:


Chris:cool2:
White Trash member #36

Methinks you need to find someone else to do your transfercase work.... :flipoff2:




Mine is stock:flipoff2:

D300 route is a good way to go if a guy wants to build as it breaks.....

thats a relief to hear chris , cuz thats the same thing i'm doing to my 300:D

keep up the good work rusty.......

more pics please:D




Methinks you need to find someone else to do your transfercase work.... :flipoff2:

FWIW my dana300 shifts fine, dosent make noise and is fine over 55mph... Of course the cruiser makes so much other noise I may not be able to hear anything at that speed either.... :D

Im into my dana about 1300 with Lomax gears, 32spine outputs and a drive flange from Jess..... Dont do like I did and go the 4:1 gearset without upgrading the outputs..... I broke mine with a 2f, 36's and a light foot....


Cruiser looks good! Hopefully will be able to wheel with you at Katemcy....


Nice to see some more White Trash over here:beer: :beer: :beer:


Chris:cool2:
White Trash member #36

I'm stretching the rear back about 5.5'' so that should put me around 104'' wheelbase. The inside of the framerails are boxxed in and I plan to add some bracing to the topside of the spring hanger also. The shackle hangers will get some reinforcement under the bottom to the frame/crossmember.

one more pic. And yes, I am going to get the right length ubolts... someday:flipoff2:

Looks like you need bigger tars to me boy.......

What is your schedule like the next 2 weeks? I need a tube basket bent up for my trailer and could run down and we could knock it out in a few hours....

The 38s are looking awful small. they measure about 35.5'' at 5 psi. I would like to go to a true 39'' tire once all of the other mods are done.I am still working the rotating shifts so time shouldnt be a problem shortly after new year. Just let me know what size tubing and about how much we need and I will be glad to punch it out for you.

What do you have on hand? 10' at most, probably less.

The only long stuff on hand is 1.5 and 2'' DOM. I can get square tube or 1'' round easily though.

I am in the process of installing the dana 300 behind the sm420 with a Novak adapter. With the tcase clocked in the middle position, the bottom sits about an inch lower than the frame rails. With it clocked in the higher position, it clears the frame rail, but I am not sure that the d shaft will clear the engine mount on the pass side of the bellhousing when the front passenger side flexes up. Any of yall running this set up ?
Thanks

There is a slight change of plans. I found out the dana 60 I was going to get turned out to be a dana 61. With time running short before Katemcy, I would rather just run 4.56 in my cruiser axle than search for another 60. I still plan to swap in a 60 front in the near future though. Anyone have a used set of 4.56 cruiser gears laying around?

I made a little progress this weekend. I installed a 32 spline rear output shaft in the dana 300, and got it mounted behind the tranny. I welded up the diff cover from Bluetorch Fab and modified a chevy front driveshaft to mate up to the cruiser 3rd member. I am ordering the 4.56 gears for the front since I couldnt find a used set:( . I still have to buy or build a rear driveshaft, get rear brake lines done, cut stock centers out of humv wheels and weld up new ones when they show up, and as well as other small items to deal with. Pics coming.

my 13 bolt rear:D

cross member pic

I am thinking about using a couple of line locks on the rear axle as cutting brakes and parking brakes. Anyone have suggestions on what brand to use or stay away from?

I am thinking about using a couple of line locks on the rear axle as cutting brakes and parking brakes. Anyone have suggestions on what brand to use or stay away from?

I'd get Mico brand if you can find them for a resonable cost.

I surfed quite a while and couldnt find any sites with prices for mico. Summit sells some line lock for about $65 with a switch and indicator light. I am beginning to threaten my 'Cheap Bastard' reputation. I ordered a 1350 cv driveshaft this afternoon...OUCH. This free rear axle is starting to get expensive:crybaby2:

Lookin good Rusty! Some close up's of the shave job on the 13 Bolt???

For the line locks, Summit sells a basic lock made by Bindo (or something like that) for about $39 last time I looked. You can get a two position toggle switch anywhere for a couple of bucks - who needs the light? Only problem we have ever had was the coil burning out on one left on for untold days.

Another question though - are you not locked up in the rear? How would a cutting brake work if you are locked up?

I will get some close up pics of the 13 bolt tomorrow. I saw those line locks also. They may be the ticket. I am running a detroit in the rear. If I am not mistaken, with the rear output of the tcase in Neutral and the brake set on left side, the right side should turn freely if I am trying to turn left. A locker will allow a tire to turn faster than the ring gear, just not slower, right? :confused:

You dont need to be doing many front digs with that Cruiser front axle.

Axle swap is looking great Rusty.

I have some 1" spacers for your front axle you can borrow until you replace it if you want them.

here's a couple of pics up close. I was able to shave about 1 inch off the bottom.

I already have 1.5'' spacers up front. I have been running those since I stepped up to 38s. Thanks anyhow. I need you to keep an eye out for a front 60 pass drop. I have been waiting on my new humv wheel centers from USA6x6 for about a month now and am still being given the ''next week'' bullshit run around :mad3: